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Question: How far will this leg take us?
$110K - 9 (8.3%)
$120K - 19 (17.6%)
$130K - 17 (15.7%)
$140K - 9 (8.3%)
$150K - 19 (17.6%)
$160K - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+ - 33 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 108

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26906280 times)
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ChartBuddy
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October 18, 2025, 02:01:14 PM


Explanation
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October 18, 2025, 02:29:54 PM


If "it's" truly "over" per the measly 18% dip, it's difficult to argue there's been a "bull" market, and the last 18 months were just a few finance bros huffing ETF fumes...zero llama activity
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October 18, 2025, 03:01:16 PM


Explanation
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philipma1957
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October 18, 2025, 03:24:21 PM

dec 2024 106.7k

oct 2025 107.1k

looks pretty fucking sideways to me.




Quote
https://newhedge.io/bitcoin/difficulty-estimator

Latest Block:   919667  (a few seconds ago)

Current Pace:   107.0442%  (372 / 347.52 expected, 24.48 ahead)

Previous Difficulty:   150839487445890.5                            
Current Difficulty:   146716052770107.5                            
Next Difficulty:   between 150604401755447 and 158967669707870
Next Difficulty Change:   between +2.6503% and +8.3506%
Previous Retarget:   last Thursday at 1:23 AM  (-2.7337%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   October 29, 2025 at 3:17 AM  (in 10d 15h 58m 8s)
Next Retarget (latest):   October 29, 2025 at 5:59 PM  (in 11d 6h 40m 22s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 13d 1h 53m 20s and 13d 16h 35m 34s


but mining difficulty is bullish very much so up 44.0% while price is sideways





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October 18, 2025, 04:01:13 PM


Explanation
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October 18, 2025, 04:36:14 PM
Last edit: October 18, 2025, 05:08:24 PM by Biodom
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

@JJG -

gm to our resident sentiment interrogator Cheesy

OK, I did the math and I sold 4.70% at $121,200 to be precise. That wasn’t a panic sell, I planned to sell some around $125,000 but had a conversation with El Duderino_ one evening and he had recently sold some so I thought to take some pressure off the table so I could stop staring at charts 100 times a day. So I pulled the trigger and now have six years of living expenses (probably more than most people earn in over 10 years). I retired in 2021 in my thirties and am living on my Bitcoin. I have enough to take me to the death bed quite comfortably (I think). But I have to be honest with you, I did shave another couple of percent off at $92,000 earlier in the year when all that tariff BS was going on.

My anxiety around price comes from the fact that I had planned to sell quite a bit more this year, I wanted to pull out $3,000,000 to diversify into real estate and also my Mrs wanted a bigger home. We actually bought our current home without a mortgage in 2022 after the 2021 bull run. No regrets there, although it was 15 Bitcoin and it is now worth 8 Bitcoin Cheesy I am fine in this house but you know what women are like. But I will not sell any Bitcoin below $125,000 - $130,000 now. I just can not justify selling here.

I’ve calmed down a little bit now, if the top is in then it’s in, nothing we can do about it. I am positioned well either way but am disappointed if the cycle is finito. If we can build some support at $107,000 and stocks hold up well then we could be in business towards the end of the year because Powell is due to cut rates and Trump will TACO on China tariffs so that could calm markets.

Regarding a bet I am not 100% confident the cycle is over but I made a commitment so let’s say for 100,000 satoshis -

No more ATHs before the end of Q1 2026. If we hit a new ATH before end of Q1 2026 I pay you 100,000 sats. If we don’t you pay me 100,000 sats.

Deal?

Anybody else reading, in the words of DJT, ’Thank you for your attention to this matter’



Congrats...it is different depending on whether you retired or not.
I am older, but still work..a creature of habit, perhaps, but it helps with the cash flow.

My Mrs increased our yearly spending almost 2x in the last couple of years (due to btc appreciation, of course), so I feel the pinch to sell sometimes, but I have other assets to sell-money market interest goes first, then money market itself, then minor "c-o", then stocks.
I guess that I am trying to carry btc to the next gen, but I am flexible.
When short term interest rates would be at 3-3.5%, maybe I would consider a loan against btc...currently you can find it at 9.99% APR...too high, still.
I would definitely get a loan against some btc with a legit company if the interest would be, say, 5% or maybe even 6%.
EDIT: forgot to add...maybe a loan against 5% of btc or something like this.
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October 18, 2025, 04:49:39 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)

dec 2024 106.7k

oct 2025 107.1k

looks pretty fucking sideways to me.
If you don't add context then you can't draw any valuable conclusions from this. Don't cherry pick data. If you want to do a fair yearly comparison you have to pick the same day from October. So where were we then?

October 18 2024 68.4k
October 19 2025 107.1k

Looks pretty fucking bullish to me!
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October 18, 2025, 05:01:13 PM


Explanation
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October 18, 2025, 05:01:56 PM
Merited by philipma1957 (1)

dec 2024 106.7k

oct 2025 107.1k

looks pretty fucking sideways to me.
If you don't add context then you can't draw any valuable conclusions from this. Don't cherry pick data. If you want to do a fair yearly comparison you have to pick the same day from October. So where were we then?

October 18 2024 68.4k
October 19 2025 107.1k

Looks pretty fucking bullish to me!

Yeah, but he has a point in that we are clearly deviating from the expectations...currently.

Just look at the M2 line vs btc. perhaps we just follow a future liquidity 'wiggle" on the chart?
https://charts.bgeometrics.com/m2_global_10w.html
Interestingly, liquidity expectation is currently flatlining.

Nobody knows how long this under-performance at the end of a cycle would last, but my wish is for bitcoin to pick up the steam soon.
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October 18, 2025, 05:08:07 PM
Merited by LFC_Bitcoin (21), AlcoHoDL (1), psycodad (1)

@JJG -
gm to our resident sentiment interrogator Cheesy

An "interrogator" is not necessarily a good thing to be considered.  Trolls engage in those kinds of behaviors.. They interrogate, and then do not provide much of anything of value on their own end.  hahahaha

OK, I did the math and I sold 4.70% at $121,200 to be precise. That wasn’t a panic sell, I planned to sell some around $125,000 but had a conversation with El Duderino_ one evening and he had recently sold some so I thought to take some pressure off the table so I could stop staring at charts 100 times a day. So I pulled the trigger and now have six years of living expenses (probably more than most people earn in over 10 years). I retired in 2021 in my thirties and am living on my Bitcoin. I have enough to take me to the death bed quite comfortably (I think). But I have to be honest with you, I did shave another couple of percent off at $92,000 earlier in the year when all that tariff BS was going on.

You should know (and/or recall) that I completely have no problem with shaving off various profits along the way, since a lot of my talking points deal with that kind of incrementalism, and surely I recall a few years ago that you were planning on selling everything, and then you came to realize that bitcoin remains a lifetime investment, even if we have to suffer through an extensive amount of volatility (and even seeming drama) in order to keep on holding onto it.

I am not completely immuned to the kinds of frustrations related to the ups and downs of BTC price moves and sometimes blaming what seems to be the cause of changes in momentum.. even though surely it seems my level of anxiety does not quite reach the same levels of yours, including some of your articulation of such frustrations has been recently going way further than I would have had thought to be good for yourself and even your influence on other forum members who are surely in different stages of their bitcoin accumulation journey - not that any of us really know bitcoin's direction or even have any responsibilities to spread good bitcoin information, whether we are frustrated with aspects of it or not.

My anxiety around price comes from the fact that I had planned to sell quite a bit more this year, I wanted to pull out $3,000,000 to diversify into real estate and also my Mrs wanted a bigger home. We actually bought our current home without a mortgage in 2022 after the 2021 bull run. No regrets there, although it was 15 Bitcoin and it is now worth 8 Bitcoin Cheesy I am fine in this house but you know what women are like. But I will not sell any Bitcoin below $125,000 - $130,000 now. I just can not justify selling here.

I surely did not want to coax these levels of details out of you.  We can delete out the details if you want.. even though perhaps it might be too late... perhaps?  I kind of prefer talking in hypotheticals.. but sure, guys can share whatever information in order to put context to situations.. . yet I doubt that we necessarily want to become public figures.

You likely realize that I am more into incremental withdrawals that might be price based and/or time based rather than lump sum withdrawals, yet at the same time, it is hard to object various lump sum withdrawals that still might end up constituting less than 10% for every doubling, and sure, guys could withdraw more, but if guys are merely withdrawing within a ballpark of 10% for every doubling, then it would be difficult to overextend the withdrawal - even though you would end up with less bitcoin.

And, yeah, if you had withdrawn 25% at around $50k, then it would be difficult to justify withdrawing any more than 10% between your withdrawals around $92k and $121k, unless you had largely replaced the BTC that you had withdrawn around $50k so that you really had not gone through any meaningful reduction of your BTC at or around $50k.  

Of course, you can do whatever, you want, and I am just giving my opinion in regards to what I would consider not overdoing the withdrawals in a way that you end up regret selling too much too soon in the event that the BTC price ends up continuing to go up after the point of your sale.

I’ve calmed down a little bit now,

For sure it can help to take some off of the table, especially if you can see yourself getting overly anxious about only one direction, and surely even the amount that you had taken off the table, you might end up getting tempted in using some of that to buy back cheaper... perhaps?  Sometimes it can be difficult to achieve both objectives of taking some out yet also replacing some of the BTC that were sold in the event that the BTC price substantially drops, which surely we have had since $121k and even since our so far top of $126,272

if the top is in then it’s in, nothing we can do about it.

That is true.. even though I still think that the odds are less than 50% that the top is in... I am not sure if I am able to articulate much more specifics than less than 50%.. I am not so sure that it would be 60%, so from my own calculation it is somewhere in the 50% range but less than 60% that the top is not in.

I am positioned well either way but am disappointed if the cycle is finito. If we can build some support at $107,000 and stocks hold up well then we could be in business towards the end of the year because Powell is due to cut rates and Trump will TACO on China tariffs so that could calm markets.

I really doubt it is going to take that long (meaning until the end of the year).. but, yeah, who knows?

Regarding a bet I am not 100% confident the cycle is over but I made a commitment so let’s say for 100,000 satoshis -

No more ATHs before the end of Q1 2026. If we hit a new ATH before end of Q1 2026 I pay you 100,000 sats. If we don’t you pay me 100,000 sats.

Deal?

That sounds reasonable... . and to be sent either on chain or by lightning network depending on fees, but the recipient has to receive 100k sats.., and probably we could use the deadline for the bet to be either 23:59 UTC time on March 31, 2026 or perhaps 0:00 UTC time on April 1, 2026.  1 minute either way should not make a difference.

Of course, it should go without saying (but is good for any observers) that we know that we are using Bitstamp as our price reference, so the BTC price happenings on any other exchange or price oracle would be irrelevant noise in regards to our bet.

And, by the way, even if you were 75% or more confident about your side of the bet, then it would seem worthy of making the bet, since we are never going to be 100% confident.. and as I mentioned above, my own confidence level of is merely in the 50% territory. .but I think that the odds are in my favor rather than against, which is why I proposed the bet, and partly to get you to put your money where your mouth is, since you were becoming quite loud, which was starting to seem that you might not even sufficiently believe what you were saying... hahahahaha.. so in that sense, it is good to have the bet, just to get each of us to stand behind our comments in some reasonable and/or measurable way.

Oh and the other thing is that you are so much on a timeline (schedule) in regards to your perception of bitcoin's need to perform within a certain window, so part of my own lure is to allow for the possibility that the ATH could come in the first quarter of 2026 rather than coming in 2025.. which you likely consider to hardly be giving anything extra away, since from your perspective, bitcoin is largely on a timeline.  hahahaha. I would so much love if the ATH did not come until sometime in the 1st quarter of 2026... to really shake some of that timeline out of your own thinking...

yet at the same time, surely I could end up being the one who ends up eating crow. .and surely I am thinking that if the top is $126,272, then surely going below $0k for the correction (or for the bear) does not even seem very likely (even though there is more than a zero chance that the BTC price could end up going below $0k)

Anybody else reading, in the words of DJT, ’Thank you for your attention to this matter’

Even if our egos might get a wee bit in the way, it should be a somewhat topical bet... since we are betting on both BTC price direction and the intensity of such BTC price movement, in terms of whether there is enough intensity for it to get back above $126,272 prior to 0:00 UTC time on April 1, 2026..  I expect that we are not going to need the whole 5.5-ish months to resolve this disputed matter (in my favor).  Tongue

By the way, I expect that I would start to lose a decent amount of my confidence if we were to start to get close to $80k. That would not be a good sign for my side of the bet prevailing.

Maybe one more clarification.  100k sats is the same as 0.001 BTC... I am pretty sure that you are already used to giving away that many sats, since I seem to recall that you gave more than twice that amount to AlcoHoDL.. for free.. Free as in not costing AlcoHoDL anything.. He did not even have to bet you about any subject matter.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

By the way.  Thanks for your cooperation, LFC, in entering into this bet and the nearly free sats..  
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October 18, 2025, 05:09:24 PM
Merited by Biodom (1)

dec 2024 106.7k

oct 2025 107.1k

looks pretty fucking sideways to me.
If you don't add context then you can't draw any valuable conclusions from this. Don't cherry pick data. If you want to do a fair yearly comparison you have to pick the same day from October. So where were we then?

October 18 2024 68.4k
October 19 2025 107.1k

Looks pretty fucking bullish to me!
Yeah, but he has a point in that we are clearly deviating from the expectations...currently.
Sure but that is something else than what he said and choose to show. Anyhow, for how long have we been deviating? For a few days? It is also possible that the ETFs made the last year simply too bullish combined with Trump's victory.

Just look at the M2 line vs btc. perhaps we just follow a future liquidity 'wiggle" on the chart?
https://charts.bgeometrics.com/m2_global_10w.html
Interestingly, liquidity expectation is currently flatlining.
I am pretty certain that most people underestimate what will happen if we ever reach interest rates of 0-1% again. The price performance is much more positive given the situation that we are in than people understand. It has been a very long time since interest rates were this high.
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October 18, 2025, 05:11:16 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), ivomm (1)

What's this I'm reading about people selling corn to buy gold?

Stupid bastards.
The quest for gold is turning into a major disaster. There have been influx of foreigners in most remote villages of the northern part of my country mostly Chinese and they arm so bandits that protect them while they continue to mine gold and rare earth metals. Our government are not doing anything because some of the top politicians and military heads are benefitting from those illegal mining that is widespread now. There even a black market in Dubai for gold from my country which were mined illegally. The most painful part is that villagers are being killed in large numbers and their homes taken over by illegal mining activities.
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October 18, 2025, 05:13:56 PM

Sounds like an interesting bet.
Personally, if i was a betting man (I am not), i would wager on the @JJG side.

Additionally, it would be interesting to see a WO poll with these time and ATH conditions, wouldn't it?
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October 18, 2025, 05:28:34 PM

if the top is in then it’s in, nothing we can do about it.
That is true.. even though I still think that the odds are less than 50% that the top is in... I am not sure if I am able to articulate much more specifics than less than 50%.. I am not so sure that it would be 60%, so from my own calculation it is somewhere in the 50% range but less than 60% that the top is not in.
For reference here are the past cycle top dates:

November 9 2021
December 15 2017
November 29 / December 3 2013

There is a fair amount of variance here and with only 3 cycles behind us definitely not enough data.

Additionally, it would be interesting to see a WO poll with these time and ATH conditions, wouldn't it?
A new poll to compare the data with the current one would be good.

Quote
How far will this leg take us?
$110K    - 9 (8.3%)
$120K    - 19 (17.6%)
$130K    - 17 (15.7%)
$140K    - 9 (8.3%)
$150K    - 19 (17.6%)
$160K    - 2 (1.9%)
$170K+    - 33 (30.6%)
   
Total Voters: 108
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October 18, 2025, 05:32:58 PM

Sounds like an interesting bet.
Personally, if i was a betting man (I am not), i would wager on the @JJG side.

Additionally, it would be interesting to see a WO poll with these time and ATH conditions, wouldn't it?

I'm not a betting man either. But this is not a bet -- it's free money for Jay, fueled by LFC's eagerness to sell.

We will have an ATH by the end of Q1/2026 -- that's my guesstimate.
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October 18, 2025, 06:00:19 PM

The most painful part is that villagers are being killed in large numbers and their homes taken over by illegal mining activities.
And they say Bitcoin consumes energy. Atleast it doesn't cost life.
https://earthworks.org/issues/environmental-impacts-of-gold-mining/#:~:text=Gold%20mining%20is%20one%20of,health%20of%20people%20and%20ecosystems.
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October 18, 2025, 06:26:01 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1), philipma1957 (1), JayJuanGee (1)

The most painful part is that villagers are being killed in large numbers and their homes taken over by illegal mining activities.
And they say Bitcoin consumes energy. Atleast it doesn't cost life.
https://earthworks.org/issues/environmental-impacts-of-gold-mining/#:~:text=Gold%20mining%20is%20one%20of,health%20of%20people%20and%20ecosystems.
The use of energy for Bitcoin is a feature, not a bug. It is the direct method that connects it to physical constraints and provides it with security. On the other hand the negative externalities of gold don't provide any benefit. It is incomparably worse..
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October 18, 2025, 06:39:34 PM

Sounds like an interesting bet.
Personally, if i was a betting man (I am not), i would wager on the @JJG side.

Additionally, it would be interesting to see a WO poll with these time and ATH conditions, wouldn't it?

I'm not a betting man either. But this is not a bet -- it's free money for Jay, fueled by LFC's eagerness to sell.

We will have an ATH by the end of Q1/2026 -- that's my guesstimate.
I don't know if disagreeing with you will sound like fud but I don't see what will create the pump just yet. Even the little rise we are seeing is sluggish and without volume signally serious reluctance in the market for upward move. Before the middle of next month, it will become obvious what the fate of the market will be. But I have strong feeling that @LFC_Bitcoin will win the bet if it is taken. Maybe the part of me that wants more cheap coins is the one typing and not the optimistic part.
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October 18, 2025, 06:49:06 PM
Merited by LoyceV (4), fillippone (3), vapourminer (1), Hueristic (1), JayJuanGee (1)

@JayJuanGee

Let’s go for 00:00 UTC time on April 1, 2026 and for 0.001 Bitcoin. It’s just a bit of fun but let’s see who wins. I would happily pay a lot more money than that to see a nice shiny all time high because obviously I’d be making a hell of a lot more money that way Smiley

I’m a man of my word and will obviously pay out if I lose the bet but you know that any way Smiley

Price seems to be stabilising here but let’s see what happens. I will be so happy if this is some disgusting dip before Bitcoin starts to melt faces. Maybe lots of four year cycle, Q4 believers have been selling some because they think the top is in and it’s stunting us at the moment. We’ll know soon, I think next week will tell us a bit more. I’d feel a lot more confident if we even put in a few green 1D candles.

There are three things that if rectified quickly, I think could reignite this bull run -

  • Powell cuts rates as expected in a couple of weeks
  • Trump TACO on the November 1st China tariff deadline
  • Government Shutdown ends soon

I pray to Satoshi that things go better for us soon.

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