Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JorgeStolfi]

Jorge, this is another example of you discarding information that doesn't meet your starting criterion of bitcoin = scam.
Confirmation bias doesn't do you any favours.

I have no reason to believe that Bitstamp is insolvent, but, if it were, it could and would easily fake that test.  That the test is accepted without criticisms only confirms how gullible bitcoiners are.

Bitcoin is not itself a scam, but I have never in my life seen an economic sector so chock full of scammers.  Every crook in the world who learns a little about bitcoin would want to "adopt" it.  It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

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[Cassius]

Jorge, this is another example of you discarding information that doesn't meet your starting criterion of bitcoin = scam.
Confirmation bias doesn't do you any favours.

I have no reason to believe that Bitstamp is insolvent, but, if it were, it could and would easily fake that test.  That the test is accepted without criticisms only confirms how gullible bitcoiners are.

Bitcoin is not itself a scam, but I have never in my life seen an economic sector so chock full of scammers.  Every crook in the world who learns a little about bitcoin would want to "adopt" it.  It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

I remember people saying something similar when something called 'the Internet' started to gain momentary popularity in the late 90s. Thank goodness that didn't work out.
Bitcoin is a protocol. The rest will get worked out along the way, just as it was/is with the Internet.

[KFR]

Jorge, this is another example of you discarding information that doesn't meet your starting criterion of bitcoin = scam.
Confirmation bias doesn't do you any favours.

I have no reason to believe that Bitstamp is insolvent, but, if it were, it could and would easily fake that test.  That the test is accepted without criticisms only confirms how gullible bitcoiners are.

Bitcoin is not itself a scam, but I have never in my life seen an economic sector so chock full of scammers.  Every crook in the world who learns a little about bitcoin would want to "adopt" it.  It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

I remember people saying something similar when something called 'the Internet' started to gain momentary popularity in the late 90s. Thank goodness that didn't work out.
Bitcoin is a protocol. The rest will get worked out along the way, just as it was/is with the Internet.

+1

[boumalo]

Jorge, this is another example of you discarding information that doesn't meet your starting criterion of bitcoin = scam.
Confirmation bias doesn't do you any favours.

I have no reason to believe that Bitstamp is insolvent, but, if it were, it could and would easily fake that test.  That the test is accepted without criticisms only confirms how gullible bitcoiners are.

Bitcoin is not itself a scam, but I have never in my life seen an economic sector so chock full of scammers.  Every crook in the world who learns a little about bitcoin would want to "adopt" it.  It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

I remember people saying something similar when something called 'the Internet' started to gain momentary popularity in the late 90s. Thank goodness that didn't work out.
Bitcoin is a protocol. The rest will get worked out along the way, just as it was/is with the Internet.

If you bought the internet companies of the 90's you probably didn't make any money

Bitcoin is a great protocole, very useful and very strong, it will appear to most when the USD Euro Yen and Pound will collapse dramatically

[zimmah]

the 90's companies maybe, but the companies on bitcoin are bitpay, coinbase, Mt.Gox (already doomed), etc.

however TCP/IP, HTTP, FTP, etc are all still around. Those are the protocols.

Bitcoin (the protocol) will most likely survive in any scenario, while bitcoin (the currency) will gain value as Bitcoin gains more utility and becomes more easy to use for the average person.

The difference between the internet and bitcoin is that you can invest directly in the protocol, without having to invest in a company. Never in history was there a chance to directly invest into a potentially life-changing worldwide protocol.

[Asrael999]

Jorge, this is another example of you discarding information that doesn't meet your starting criterion of bitcoin = scam.
Confirmation bias doesn't do you any favours.

I have no reason to believe that Bitstamp is insolvent, but, if it were, it could and would easily fake that test.  That the test is accepted without criticisms only confirms how gullible bitcoiners are.

Bitcoin is not itself a scam, but I have never in my life seen an economic sector so chock full of scammers.  Every crook in the world who learns a little about bitcoin would want to "adopt" it.  It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

How about the current European Banking Sector Asset Quality Review - i'll take the evidence presented of Bitstamp's solvency as superior to any of the smoke and mirrors provided by the existing fiat system.
If I recall Ireland's banking sector was solvent under the first ECB test, until it wasn't just a few months later.

Banks are no better- scams and shysters are everywhere, some of them get paid millions of pounds by companies owned by the same shareholders they extort - criticise bitcoin if you will and many involved in it deserve the criticism but Stamp have functioned well to date. The questions around KYC are far more likely to be evidence of an exchange co-operating with authorities than an exchange intentionally attempting to defraud customers or in financial difficulty

Direct some of your penetrating insight on the conventional fiat system you appear to support over bitcoin, I work in it, and have done for twenty years and I know its full of scams, most of them much smarter and much more complex than anything you have seen yet in bitcoin.

[Torque]

the 90's companies maybe, but the companies on bitcoin are bitpay, coinbase, Mt.Gox (already doomed), etc.

however TCP/IP, HTTP, FTP, etc are all still around. Those are the protocols.

Bitcoin (the protocol) will most likely survive in any scenario, while bitcoin (the currency) will gain value as Bitcoin gains more utility and becomes more easy to use for the average person.

The difference between the internet and bitcoin is that you can invest directly in the protocol, without having to invest in a company. Never in history was there a chance to directly invest into a potentially life-changing worldwide protocol.

Yes, very true.  I especially like your last 2 sentences.  Although anyone who bought popular IP domain names early on and sold them years later made a killing.

Nobody knows what bitcoin-based companies or exchanges will still be around 10 years from now, but the Bitcoin protocol will live on along with bitcoin the currency.

However, the short-lived tech world history has shown us that a company that makes something technology-related so brain dead simple for the masses to comprehend and easy to use, usually that company has staying power since they managed to grab onto early market share and become a market leader.

Apple made easy-to-use GUI OSes and integrated software/hardware brain dead simple.

Netscape made web browsing brain dead simple.  

Google made internet searching brain dead simple.

Facebook made social networking brain dead simple.

YouTube made online video sharing brain dead simple.

LinkSys made WiFi brain dead simple.

Apple and Google made smartphone and tablet apps brain dead simple.

So who will make bitcoin e-commerce brain dead simple?  Many companies like Coinbase and BitPay are trying.  Perhaps we have yet to see those players that are already good at that kind of thing (Google?  Apple?  Facebook?  Amazon?) enter the bitcoin arena.  My bet is that eventually we will, and that they are already discussing it.

[fallinglantern]

however TCP/IP, HTTP, FTP, etc are all still around. Those are the protocols.

Yes, but how often are you using gopher to read books, archie to find files, or do you finger your best friend to find out the latest happenings? For every legacy protocol still in use, there's just as many that are obsolete.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Syke]

It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

Wrong. Do you even have any idea how profitable just credit card fraud is? The credit card fraud in a single year alone absolutely dwarfs the entire bitcoin ecosystem. And this goes on every year, non stop. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Credit cards basically have their private keys printed on the front of the card. Every time you use a credit card you are at risk of having it stolen. Bitcoin actually reduces fraud. You can purchase anything from anywhere, and not ever risk your private key being taken during the purchase. A merchant can accept bitcoin from any customer throughout the world and never have to worry about chargebacks.

Sorry, I can't handle your idiotic comments anymore. Welcome to my ignore list.

[KFR]

You're losing the room, prof.

[ShroomsKit]

It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

Welcome to my ignore list.

Hey, that's my line.

[ChrisML]

$570,- right around the corner! 

[ShroomsKit]

I can't believe there are still people here who have that guy not on ignore.

[davidgdg]

It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

Wrong. Do you even have any idea how profitable just credit card fraud is? The credit card fraud in a single year alone absolutely dwarfs the entire bitcoin ecosystem. And this goes on every year, non stop. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Credit cards basically have their private keys printed on the front of the card. Every time you use a credit card you are at risk of having it stolen. Bitcoin actually reduces fraud. You can purchase anything from anywhere, and not ever risk your private key being taken during the purchase. A merchant can accept bitcoin from any customer throughout the world and never have to worry about chargebacks.

Sorry, I can't handle your idiotic comments anymore. Welcome to my ignore list.

Indeed. US$ 11 billion was lost in credit card fraud last year. To that you can probably add ten times that spent on fraud prevention.

[dreamspark]

It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

More completely false comments.

I noticed you chose not to reply to one of my replies to you about a week ago where I explained in detail why big serious money criminals would never go near BTC I wonder why you chose to ignore it? That could have saved you from this gaff.

One for you anyway -  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/700million-tax-fraud-brit-held-3585565

Bigger fraud than Gox there mate and this guy was travelling the world living the life.

[edwardspitz]

Prepare everyone - we're going down! I'm pretty confident as you will see: I just bought some.

..cc..m..f?

What a wasted day, but I'm glad I got out before the 1st round dumping started and that I ended the day with a tiny profit. I caught the bottom perfectly today, and it looked like we were recovering. But then dumpers started their dumping again. I tried to hold but dumpers the price going too far down for comfort and I had to dump not to lose profit. Later I bought back because it looked like a new up-trending line was forming. But then that broke and I sold again. This time at a small loss. I would be nice to see more green hourly candles on all exchanges. Up until now all candles are red or weak (especially on Okcoin). Dumpers there obviously have a target to sell at 3.500 CNY. Possibly bulls think that is a great price to buy at... or something. However price is not really changing much on the Chinese exchanges and I don't believe that western exchanges are able to move much without them. Right now there is no real sign of recovery and buyers must be getting exhausted. On top of that TA looks bad as we have clearly broken the lowest line in the channel we were in. The only positive news is that we are currently sideways and . Also I looks like the crossing of the 15 min. MA might have given the Chinese traders a little confidence.

[calmindifference]

It is a much more lucrative and "safe" vehicle for scams than the classical ones -- stolen credit cards, counterfeit cash, phony viagra, nigerian heirlooms, penny stocks, ponzi funds, ...

Wrong. Do you even have any idea how profitable just credit card fraud is? The credit card fraud in a single year alone absolutely dwarfs the entire bitcoin ecosystem. And this goes on every year, non stop. You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Credit cards basically have their private keys printed on the front of the card. Every time you use a credit card you are at risk of having it stolen. Bitcoin actually reduces fraud. You can purchase anything from anywhere, and not ever risk your private key being taken during the purchase. A merchant can accept bitcoin from any customer throughout the world and never have to worry about chargebacks.

Sorry, I can't handle your idiotic comments anymore. Welcome to my ignore list.

Indeed. US$ 11 billion was lost in credit card fraud last year. To that you can probably add ten times that spent on fraud prevention.

It's about proportions not absolute values.

[JayJuanGee]

@Jorge
I'm curious. You're an academic, and a scientist, I believe. So any theory you hold must be falsifiable in order to be viewed as credible.
Under what criteria would you entertain the idea that you might be wrong about bitcoin, or cryptocurrency in general?

I answered this some 6,223,678,221 pages ago on this thread.  "Success" will be when bitcoin (or crypto) gets used by a large number of people because it is cheaper/faster/safer/easier/whatever than the alternatives.  Not because one has a BTC stash to burn, not to support the cause, not to evade taxes or make illegal payments, not because it is hip, not to speculate with, not out of curiosity, etc.

Offline key/address generation and asymmetric crypto-signing of "digital checks" are undeniable wins that I am sure will be widely adopted eventually.  As for the rest of the bitcoin protocol, and the Satoshi blockchain in particular, I am more skeptical than ever.

What's notable is that Trolfi admitted he couldn't be argued out of his position, so only empirical evidence will convince him.

So taking part in discussion is no longer useful for him. He needs to sit back and wait.

It's worse than that. A man who can't be persuaded by logic or reason is attempting to persuade others by logic or reason. That necessarily means the only people he could convince are people more open to logic and reason than he is himself. It's a hypocrisy that speaks more to the sorry state of academia than to anything else. These professors are not teaching students how to think. They are telling them WHAT to think.

I am NOT convinced that Jorge is representative of many professors. 

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

I can't believe there are still people here who have that guy not on ignore.

Coz sometimes reading him is funny , exactly as reading you is.