Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[rebuilder]

My preferences are not important.  The point is that a system that does not allow the forcible return of stolen property will not be acceptable to society, except for thieves and other criminals.  In the end, it will be rejected even by the libertarians who now think that irreversibility is a good thing.

Bitcoin allows the forcible return of stolen property just the same as any form of tangible property does. You find the person in possession of, or with knowledge of how to obtain, the property in question and you persuade or coerce them into handing the property over. Bitcoin simply doesn't contain a back door for anyone claiming authority to alter ownership of the property the public ledger keeps track of.

[Chalkbot]

My preferences are not important.  The point is that a system that does not allow the forcible return of stolen property will not be acceptable to society, except for thieves and other criminals.  In the end, it will be rejected even by the libertarians who now think that irreversibility is a good thing.

People here consider a money that is impossible to steal a better solution than empowering a central authority with the ability confiscate and return funds that they deem "stolen". Apparently there are some who don't think that's better, so it must be a matter of preference.

[oda.krell]

Fortunately for you, if these things bother you and you'd rather have a malleable money supply managed by unelected officials who can seize funds and reverse transactions at will: you are well served with the current monetary paradigm - be it Keynesian, monetarist or neocon - the differences are of cosmetic character, really.

Those of us with the (obviously wrong!) view that a monetary system should be predictable and not prone to manipulation by individuals have been longing for the chance to try out something like that. It will quite obviously fail, because centralized systems run by experts are naturally superior to decentralized systems run by no one but some people just need to convince themselves on their own, deferring to the wise opinions of experts is not enough for them. And who knows - if by some freak accident such a monetary system turns out to be better than what we have now, you will benefit as well

My preferences are not important.  The point is that a system that does not allow the forcible return of stolen property will not be acceptable to society, except for thieves and other criminals.  In the end, it will be rejected even by the libertarians who now think that irreversibility is a good thing.

The answer to that one is really quite simple: the raw transfer mechanism is irreversible, which is a byproduct of the 'no authority has complete control of the network' property. Should Bitcoin become the backbone of global financial transactions (or get near that state), it'll simply mean that a vast number of escrow services will be developed (some automatized, some with a human in the driver seat).

It's not that Bitcoin is perfect, or even that irreversibility is always a good thing: it's a necessary consequence of an extremely efficient, distributed and owner-less (your term ) system that in principle can be unrivaled in its low transfer costs. Escrow will add to that, but at least for most (small) transactions, automatized, or at least extremely streamlined escrow should be enough, and probably won't raise the cost above the fees taken by credit card companies or banks.

[maximum]

I got a small deposit (100€) in yesterday at Bitstamp and now they want me to answer 5 questions.

1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. What is the purpose of your trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account.
3. Which banks do you intend to use? Please provide the complete addresses and SWIFT codes.
4. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)?
5. What type of trading will you conduct? Buying/selling/both? Estimated trade volume per month?


How are we supposed to reach new highs when no one can move money in?

[Bronstad]

I got a small deposit (100€) in yesterday at Bitstamp and now they want me to answer 5 questions.

1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. What is the purpose of your trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account.
3. Which banks do you intend to use? Please provide the complete addresses and SWIFT codes.
4. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)?
5. What type of trading will you conduct? Buying/selling/both? Estimated trade volume per month?


How are we supposed to reach new prices when no one can move money in?

You just said you moved money into Bitstamp. Who can't move money in?

Answer the questions or goto BTC-e.

[Walsoraj]

...
How are we supposed to reach new prices when no one can move money in?

Bots executing buy orders with StampBux.

[Richy_T]

My preferences are not important.  The point is that a system that does not allow the forcible return of stolen property will not be acceptable to society, except for thieves and other criminals.  In the end, it will be rejected even by the libertarians who now think that irreversibility is a good thing.

Bitcoin allows the forcible return of stolen property just the same as any form of tangible property does. You find the person in possession of, or with knowledge of how to obtain, the property in question and you persuade or coerce them into handing the property over. Bitcoin simply doesn't contain a back door for anyone claiming authority to alter ownership of the property the public ledger keeps track of.

Often, when it comes to financial issues, the "property" is never recovered from the thief. It is eaten as a cost either by the merchant, the processor or a third-party insurer.

If you want reversibility, escrow will become a thing. Of course, at some point, the escrow completes and reversal is no longer possible. Which is a great thing if you have legitimately received funds and don't want to be ripped off (reverseing charges/bouncing checks/whatever being one of the classic scams out there)

It just requires a different way of looking at things which, admittedly, is beyond some (certain) people.

[dasein]

Fortunately for you, if these things bother you and you'd rather have a malleable money supply managed by unelected officials who can seize funds and reverse transactions at will: you are well served with the current monetary paradigm - be it Keynesian, monetarist or neocon - the differences are of cosmetic character, really.

Those of us with the (obviously wrong!) view that a monetary system should be predictable and not prone to manipulation by individuals have been longing for the chance to try out something like that. It will quite obviously fail, because centralized systems run by experts are naturally superior to decentralized systems run by no one but some people just need to convince themselves on their own, deferring to the wise opinions of experts is not enough for them. And who knows - if by some freak accident such a monetary system turns out to be better than what we have now, you will benefit as well

My preferences are not important.  The point is that a system that does not allow the forcible return of stolen property will not be acceptable to society, except for thieves and other criminals.  In the end, it will be rejected even by the libertarians who now think that irreversibility is a good thing.

Cash is just as irreversible as bitcoin. Transactions that require reversibility are implemented where the parties are willing to pay the additional cost of escrow, insurance, or whatever specific reversibility mechanism is desired, and those mechanism are cheaper to implement in crypto-currencies as compared to cash.

[Richy_T]

I got a small deposit (100€) in yesterday at Bitstamp and now they want me to answer 5 questions.

1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?

Transcendental meditation

2. What is the purpose of your trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account.

I want to have a small fortune. I currently have a large fortune.

3. Which banks do you intend to use? Please provide the complete addresses and SWIFT codes.

Banks are for the weak. And the week

4. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)?

My god, have you not seen the volatility? How am I supposed to know that?

5. What type of trading will you conduct? Buying/selling/both? Estimated trade volume per month?

Depends on how many more times China intends to ban Bitcoin


How are we supposed to reach new highs when no one can move money in?

Worked for Gox

[exocytosis]

How are we supposed to reach new highs when no one can move money in?

Higher prices won't be reached unless ...

A) ... a reliable, user-friendly infrastructure emerges. This is utopian.

or ...

B) One or several exchanges use Willy-like bots to manipulate the price, thus maybe instigating a new rally. This might drive the price up to $ 1000 or more, temporarily. A very likely scenario, in the long term at least.

[Dragonkiller]

I got a small deposit (100€) in yesterday at Bitstamp and now they want me to answer 5 questions.

1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. What is the purpose of your trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account.
3. Which banks do you intend to use? Please provide the complete addresses and SWIFT codes.
4. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)?
5. What type of trading will you conduct? Buying/selling/both? Estimated trade volume per month?


How are we supposed to reach new highs when no one can move money in?

AFAIK it is based on volume and frequency. Do you make a lot of deposits?

[derpinheimer]

Explanation

Asks on 600 just keep building

[adamstgBit]

1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
internet

2. What is the purpose of your trading on Bitstamp? Please describe in as much detail as possible how you intend to use your trading account.
I want to buy all the bitcoins

3. Which banks do you intend to use? Please provide the complete addresses and SWIFT codes.
FullOfFiatBank

4. Estimated amount that you would be depositing/withdrawing to/from your Bitstamp account per month (in USD and BTC)?
1billion dollars

5. What type of trading will you conduct? Buying/selling/both? Estimated trade volume per month?
BUYING, all the bitcoins.


How are we supposed to reach new highs when no one can move money in?

like that

[Arghhh]

This is the consolidation phase in which we kick out the margin traders one by one. I'm chilling.

[rafamadeira]

This is the consolidation phase in which we kick out the margin traders one by one. I'm chilling.

chilling as high as possible

[roslinpl]

Well I was starting to draw a train for our rally but I will wait with uploading till next week

But as for now from few hours it is looking much better than 10h ago which is promising

In that case maybe just a little train for you

[BBmodBB]

I'm selling my coins today. Will buy them back when we hit sub-400 prices in a couple of weeks or so.

I don't see this being the likely event. If anything, we'll drop back down to 500. Going to even 450 is unlikely, but lower than 400? That's a stretch. There's just too much positive news now.

dang dude loooong time!!! lol hows them faucets doing??? haha BTC on the fence here possible shakedown with cryptsy on the verge of collapse~ jmho =)

[ShameOnYou]

Jeez, when are we gonna exit this sideways? Bollinger bands are getting pretty squeezed on the 4-hour, but it's been like that for a day now. Getting ancy!

[adamstgBit]

yesterday i did my biggest market buy ever.

feeling lucky.

[ShameOnYou]

yesterday i did my biggest market buy ever.

feeling lucky.

LOL. Market buying......

I mean, do it when you gotta, when the train is clearly taking off without you...but I pretty much never hit the market order button. To each his own I guess.