Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Chang Hum]

Why are there people so damn desperate to keep the price below 400? What are they afraid of? What do they want?

Most people purchase Bitcoins in the speculative hope they can later profit by selling them at a higher price to other market participants. As it's mathematically impossible for this to continue ad infinitum it's foolish to think you can continue to make money at the expense of other market participants (of which you yourselves are among) beyond the peak of adoption.

Once adoption rates have peaked, which they more than likely did last year, there's little left but a massive downside caused by an imbalance of those wishing to cash out vs new money coming in from those wishing to speculate on further price rises.  As the imbalance becomes more apparent new adopters are likely to become fewer and fewer thus escalating the downside.

As more people start to realize risk/reward is a bad bet and that the coins are gradually becoming worth less vs USD, a cash grab situation is likely to arise in which people will become aware coins are actually only backed by buy orders amounting to about 0.01% of the arbitrary market capitalization. This situation could be immensely profitable for those buying into the next round of folly.

All those who have become rich from Bitcoin have simply done so at the expense of later market participants, many of whom are likely to realize large losses on the flip side at some point. Hence why it's reasonably comparable to a giant ponzi scheme.

You described the stock market.

close you could fairly say I'm describing a lot of penny stocks, however a typical stocks value isn't an arbitrary figure as a profitable company adds value to the stock in terms of re-investing in the underlying business and to share holders in the form of dividends.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Wekkel]

Why are there people so damn desperate to keep the price below 400? What are they afraid of? What do they want?

[...] a giant ponzi scheme.

You described the stock market.

close you could fairly say I'm describing a lot of penny stocks, however a typical stocks value isn't an arbitrary figure as a profitable company adds value to the stock in terms of re-investing in the underlying business and to share holders in the form of dividends.

It is still the same. For each seller there is a buyer. Its a zero sum game depending on how people value the item traded. No more, no less.

[JorgeStolfi]

You described the stock market.

Almost, except for two small details called "backing assets" and "dividends".  Stupid things really, but the reason why bitcoin is not seeing wider adoption out there is that most people somehow got convinced that they do matter.

[carpetbagger]

Don't take drugs when trading  

Or take drugs and don't trade  

[Chang Hum]

ignored

you really believe that in a market where the price rises due to demand being larger than supply, anyone is losing money or trying to make money because of others losing money, than you are mistaken by an order of magnitude that i cannot express without getting offensive.

if 10 people hold 10 apples and there are another 10 people want to have some of those apples- what will happen? Price rises. Who the fuck lost money? you say that apple scheme is a ponzi, being a hero in a BITCOIN forum. wow.

Dear @Chang_Hum, I hope you are enjoying the warm welcome that this thread reserves for those who have the bad habit of pointing out the obvious. 

lol the defensiveness investors is an odd characteristic across all markets. My words aren't having any effect on the price of such a large market so it stands to good reason that an intelligent investor would be wise to listen to all viewpoints and decide for themselves what they see as a probable outcome whether they agree or not. However it's usually the case when investors are confronted with analysis different then their own (blind-sighted?) viewpoint they become extremely hostile.

[Chang Hum]

Why are there people so damn desperate to keep the price below 400? What are they afraid of? What do they want?

[...] a giant ponzi scheme.

You described the stock market.

close you could fairly say I'm describing a lot of penny stocks, however a typical stocks value isn't an arbitrary figure as a profitable company adds value to the stock in terms of re-investing in the underlying business and to share holders in the form of dividends.

It is still the same. For each seller there is a buyer. Its a zero sum game depending on how people value the item traded. No more, no less.

No that's what I'm saying although bitcoin is a zero sum game (participants gain or loss is exactly balanced by other participants gain or loss) that is not the case with stocks as the underlying book price of a profitable company grows with time and dividend payments are paid from the company's profits.

[nakaone]

Why are there people so damn desperate to keep the price below 400? What are they afraid of? What do they want?

Most people purchase Bitcoins in the speculative hope they can later profit by selling them at a higher price to other market participants. As it's mathematically impossible for this to continue ad infinitum it's foolish to think you can continue to make money at the expense of other market participants (of which you yourselves are among) beyond the peak of adoption.

Once adoption rates have peaked, which they more than likely did last year, there's little left but a massive downside caused by an imbalance of those wishing to cash out vs new money coming in from those wishing to speculate on further price rises.  As the imbalance becomes more apparent new adopters are likely to become fewer and fewer thus escalating the downside.

As more people start to realize risk/reward is a bad bet and that the coins are gradually becoming worth less vs USD, a cash grab situation is likely to arise in which people will become aware coins are actually only backed by buy orders amounting to about 0.01% of the arbitrary market capitalization. This situation could be immensely profitable for those buying into the next round of folly.

All those who have become rich from Bitcoin have simply done so at the expense of later market participants, many of whom are likely to realize large losses on the flip side at some point. Hence why it's reasonably comparable to a giant ponzi scheme.

it is sad to see how little people here understand of the economics of network effects as well as the economics of bitcoin.

tell me what is the value of a global scale value ledger which can only be changed a consensus of its participants and is immune to any other intervention? additionally this ledger also has a function and is scarce. at this point of time the market capitalization is 0,05% of the gold market cap....

[600watt]

ignored

you really believe that in a market where the price rises due to demand being larger than supply, anyone is losing money or trying to make money because of others losing money, than you are mistaken by an order of magnitude that i cannot express without getting offensive.

if 10 people hold 10 apples and there are another 10 people want to have some of those apples- what will happen? Price rises. Who the fuck lost money? you say that apple scheme is a ponzi, being a hero in a BITCOIN forum. wow.

Ignored

Ignored

you were accusing bitcoin buyers to try to make money by others losing in a ponzi. THAT is insulting and it is wrong.

[zakalwe]

People should and do gets hostile to stupidity.

I certainly do.

Call bitcoin just Ponzi scheme not considering all the potential in which the price will reflect is stupid. Or a stupid try to manipulate price.

Cryptos should get rid of childish troll to get into a higher level.

It's just amazing. And this should be the standard forum?

Of course everyone have the right to write free, but please try and be serious. And this is direct also to people who writes "tomorrow bitcoin will be at 10.000"

Thank you boys.

[Chang Hum]

ignored

you really believe that in a market where the price rises due to demand being larger than supply, anyone is losing money or trying to make money because of others losing money, than you are mistaken by an order of magnitude that i cannot express without getting offensive.

if 10 people hold 10 apples and there are another 10 people want to have some of those apples- what will happen? Price rises. Who the fuck lost money? you say that apple scheme is a ponzi, being a hero in a BITCOIN forum. wow.

Ignored

Ignored

you were accusing bitcoin buyers to try to make money by others losing in a ponzi. THAT is insulting and it is wrong.

  I've clearly said I've made a lot of money from later market participants losing in a ponzi, when I made 1000% profit the money didn't magic out of thin air it was from people that bought in after me.

[Chang Hum]

People should and do gets hostile to stupidity.

I certainly do.

Call bitcoin just Ponzi scheme not considering all the potential in which the price will reflect is stupid. Or a stupid try to manipulate price.

Cryptos should get rid of childish troll to get into a higher level.

It's just amazing. And this should be the standard forum?

Of course everyone have the right to write free, but please try and be serious. And this is direct also to people who writes "tomorrow bitcoin will be at 10.000"

Thank you boys.

ok you win 

[Erdogan]

Why are there people so damn desperate to keep the price below 400? What are they afraid of? What do they want?

Most people purchase Bitcoins in the speculative hope they can later profit by selling them at a higher price to other market participants. As it's mathematically impossible for this to continue ad infinitum it's foolish to think you can continue to make money at the expense of other market participants (of which you yourselves are among) beyond the peak of adoption.

Once adoption rates have peaked, which they more than likely did last year, there's little left but a massive downside caused by an imbalance of those wishing to cash out vs new money coming in from those wishing to speculate on further price rises.  As the imbalance becomes more apparent new adopters are likely to become fewer and fewer thus escalating the downside.

As more people start to realize risk/reward is a bad bet and that the coins are gradually becoming worth less vs USD, a cash grab situation is likely to arise in which people will become aware coins are actually only backed by buy orders amounting to about 0.01% of the arbitrary market capitalization. This situation could be immensely profitable for those buying into the next round of folly.

All those who have become rich from Bitcoin have simply done so at the expense of later market participants, many of whom are likely to realize large losses on the flip side at some point. Hence why it's reasonably comparable to a giant ponzi scheme.

The one I bought from was happy - the one I sold to was happy - I am happy; where is the loss? This is value creation, to some it seems magical.

[zakalwe]

Of course boy, I always do.

[Chang Hum]

Why are there people so damn desperate to keep the price below 400? What are they afraid of? What do they want?

Most people purchase Bitcoins in the speculative hope they can later profit by selling them at a higher price to other market participants. As it's mathematically impossible for this to continue ad infinitum it's foolish to think you can continue to make money at the expense of other market participants (of which you yourselves are among) beyond the peak of adoption.

Once adoption rates have peaked, which they more than likely did last year, there's little left but a massive downside caused by an imbalance of those wishing to cash out vs new money coming in from those wishing to speculate on further price rises.  As the imbalance becomes more apparent new adopters are likely to become fewer and fewer thus escalating the downside.

As more people start to realize risk/reward is a bad bet and that the coins are gradually becoming worth less vs USD, a cash grab situation is likely to arise in which people will become aware coins are actually only backed by buy orders amounting to about 0.01% of the arbitrary market capitalization. This situation could be immensely profitable for those buying into the next round of folly.

All those who have become rich from Bitcoin have simply done so at the expense of later market participants, many of whom are likely to realize large losses on the flip side at some point. Hence why it's reasonably comparable to a giant ponzi scheme.

The one I bought from was happy - the one I sold to was happy - I am happy; where is the loss? This is value creation, to some it seems magical.

Do you agree that your loss or gain is exactly balanced by the loss or gain of the wider market? if so then I hope you can appreciate that wild gains already made or made in the future must be balanced by the market.

[Chang Hum]

Of course boy, I always do.

at being a complete dickhead 

[Erdogan]

Why are there people so damn desperate to keep the price below 400? What are they afraid of? What do they want?

Most people purchase Bitcoins in the speculative hope they can later profit by selling them at a higher price to other market participants. As it's mathematically impossible for this to continue ad infinitum it's foolish to think you can continue to make money at the expense of other market participants (of which you yourselves are among) beyond the peak of adoption.

Once adoption rates have peaked, which they more than likely did last year, there's little left but a massive downside caused by an imbalance of those wishing to cash out vs new money coming in from those wishing to speculate on further price rises.  As the imbalance becomes more apparent new adopters are likely to become fewer and fewer thus escalating the downside.

As more people start to realize risk/reward is a bad bet and that the coins are gradually becoming worth less vs USD, a cash grab situation is likely to arise in which people will become aware coins are actually only backed by buy orders amounting to about 0.01% of the arbitrary market capitalization. This situation could be immensely profitable for those buying into the next round of folly.

All those who have become rich from Bitcoin have simply done so at the expense of later market participants, many of whom are likely to realize large losses on the flip side at some point. Hence why it's reasonably comparable to a giant ponzi scheme.

The one I bought from was happy - the one I sold to was happy - I am happy; where is the loss? This is value creation, to some it seems magical.

Do you agree that your loss or gain is exactly balanced by the loss or gain of the wider market? if so then I hope you can appreciate that wild gains already made or made in the future must be balanced by the market.

No

[NotLambchop]

...
it is sad to see how little people here understand of the economics of network effects as well as the economics of bitcoin.

Exactly.  That's why you should also buy my CopyCoin--the same applies.

tell me what is the value of a global scale value ledger which can only be changed a consensus of its participants and is immune to any other intervention?

Participants?  Or a cabal of a few megapools/megamines/core devs with commit privilages ?

additionally this ledger also has a function and is scarce.

How many of my scarce CopyCoin should I put you down for?

Just like m at this point of time the market capitalization is 0,05% of the gold market cap....

My CopyCoin is currently valued at $0.1 per coin, translating to a much lower percentage of gold market cap.  The upside is substantially greater.  

In other words:

[MrPiggles]

ignored

you really believe that in a market where the price rises due to demand being larger than supply, anyone is losing money or trying to make money because of others losing money, than you are mistaken by an order of magnitude that i cannot express without getting offensive.

if 10 people hold 10 apples and there are another 10 people want to have some of those apples- what will happen? Price rises. Who the fuck lost money? you say that apple scheme is a ponzi, being a hero in a BITCOIN forum. wow.

Dear @Chang_Hum, I hope you are enjoying the warm welcome that this thread reserves for those who have the bad habit of pointing out the obvious. 

In case you didn't notice, I quoted his post from 2012 saying bitcoin was useless

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Hehe. NotLambchop is here. Must be some cheap coins around