Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[fonsie]

This thread is getting annoying An idiot that loves pink unicorns and chinese propaganda pictures + a kid that's fully invested in silver, but keeps crying about some idiot trader that dumps some btc, you would think, it would make him happy instead.

[Totscha]

More supply again (MtGox 200K BTC + 2nd SR auction):

Down

It always amazes me that there are panic dumps whenever an article mentions a chunk of coins being manhandled in some way.  Oh no, 50,000BTC are going to be privately auctioned in a month, I better dump!  Hell, with the Mt. Gox coins we don't even know if they'll be sold off or returned, and when.  It certainly isn't going to be tomorrow or the next day.  

It's almost as if people forget that there are millions of BTC out there where even a marginal percentage could just show up on an exchange at any given time.

Market is more wise than any individual, it is the perfect voting system.

Whether you wanna admit it or not is your problem.

The fact is that we have confirmed increase in supply:

50k this month + 94k from SR auction.
200k from MtGox  
8k from Australian police

Show me evidence for increased demand (the reason I said 'Down' is because I still see buying pressure only from the usual suspects: speculators and funds, masses are not interested at all).

Yes, but you did make one assumption. That those Bitcoins will be dumped on the market very fast. I'm sceptical about that.

1. Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...
2. Imagine you were a MtGox customer and got 20% of your BTC back. Would you sell most of them immediately? Some people will, but i guess more of them will hold for a higher price to recoup their loss...

[JimboToronto]

This thread is getting annoying An idiot that loves pink unicorns and chinese propaganda pictures + a kid that's fully invested in silver, but keeps crying about some idiot trader that dumps some btc, you would think, it would make him happy instead.

You forgot the all the page 10000 fetishists. 

[klee]

More supply again (MtGox 200K BTC + 2nd SR auction):

Down

It always amazes me that there are panic dumps whenever an article mentions a chunk of coins being manhandled in some way.  Oh no, 50,000BTC are going to be privately auctioned in a month, I better dump!  Hell, with the Mt. Gox coins we don't even know if they'll be sold off or returned, and when.  It certainly isn't going to be tomorrow or the next day.  

It's almost as if people forget that there are millions of BTC out there where even a marginal percentage could just show up on an exchange at any given time.

Market is more wise than any individual, it is the perfect voting system.

Whether you wanna admit it or not is your problem.

The fact is that we have confirmed increase in supply:

50k this month + 94k from SR auction.
200k from MtGox  
8k from Australian police

Show me evidence for increased demand (the reason I said 'Down' is because I still see buying pressure only from the usual suspects: speculators and funds, masses are not interested at all).

Yes, but you did make one assumption. That those Bitcoins will be dumped on the market very fast. I'm sceptical about that.

1. Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...
2. Imagine you were a MtGox customer and got 20% of your BTC back. Would you sell most of them immediately? Some people will, but i guess more of them will hold for a higher price to recoup their loss...

These coins were out of circulation so basically they were not offering in supply at all.

Now they are back, we can only speculate on the amount that will be sold but markets usually tend to speculate close to the worst case scenario (if not more).

EDIT: What I am trying to say is that markets are psychological amplifiers - overreacting to news regarding supply & demand.

[Totscha]

More supply again (MtGox 200K BTC + 2nd SR auction):

Down

It always amazes me that there are panic dumps whenever an article mentions a chunk of coins being manhandled in some way.  Oh no, 50,000BTC are going to be privately auctioned in a month, I better dump!  Hell, with the Mt. Gox coins we don't even know if they'll be sold off or returned, and when.  It certainly isn't going to be tomorrow or the next day.  

It's almost as if people forget that there are millions of BTC out there where even a marginal percentage could just show up on an exchange at any given time.

Market is more wise than any individual, it is the perfect voting system.

Whether you wanna admit it or not is your problem.

The fact is that we have confirmed increase in supply:

50k this month + 94k from SR auction.
200k from MtGox  
8k from Australian police

Show me evidence for increased demand (the reason I said 'Down' is because I still see buying pressure only from the usual suspects: speculators and funds, masses are not interested at all).

Yes, but you did make one assumption. That those Bitcoins will be dumped on the market very fast. I'm sceptical about that.

1. Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...
2. Imagine you were a MtGox customer and got 20% of your BTC back. Would you sell most of them immediately? Some people will, but i guess more of them will hold for a higher price to recoup their loss...

These coins were out of circulation so basically they were not offering in supply at all.

Now they are back, we can only speculate on the amount that will be sold but markets usually tend to speculate close to the worst case scenario (if not more).

True.

I would find it more likely that fear of the dump will cause a bigger dip than the dump itself... And it's probably already happening.

[octaft]

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

[MrPiggles]

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

Nope, and never quite figured out why people think this.

The losing bids that were made public after the first USMS were up to 10% below the market price. No reason to think the winning bid wasn't 9% or 5% under, or even just market price.

[lay785]

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

bulls are praying that tim draper buys them all again.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[cbeast]

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

bulls are praying that tim draper buys them all again.

He bought less than two weeks worth. That's hardly all.

[cbeast]

Auctions have usually been won by long term investors. Why buy at a premium (and they do buy at a premium most of the time) only to dump immediately? That's burning money...

How do you know they buy at a premium? Have there been any major auctions where the price was made public?

Nope, and never quite figured out why people think this.

The losing bids that were made public after the first USMS were up to 10% below the market price. No reason to think the winning bid wasn't 9% or 5% under, or even just market price.

Because private auctions don't work like that.

[Tzupy]

"Kraken selected to aid MtGOX Investigation and Liquidation"
http://blog.kraken.com/post/103599171158/mt-gox-bankruptcy

Smells like a big pile of steaming bullshit to me

No bullshit, the CEO of Kraken is the CEO of Payward, which was selected to assist Kobayashi, quoting:

Upon obtaining approval from the Tokyo District Court, as of November 26, 2014,
I decided on Payward Japan K.K., which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Payward.
Inc. (“Payward”), as the supporting company and entered into the “Agreement
Concerning Support, etc. of Bankruptcy Proceedings”, because the Payward group
was considered to be the most suitable among the candidates.
In addition, as stated above, the agreement stipulates that the Payward group will
support the bankruptcy proceedings of the bankrupt entity. Payward will not
assume the business of the bankrupt entity.

Payward (CEO and Co-founder: Jesse Powell) is a corporation established on July
28, 2011 in the state of Delaware. It has outlets in the United States, Canada, the
United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Singapore and Japan, and operates the bitcoin
exchange, Kraken, with users from around the world as its clients.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[macsga]

"Kraken selected to aid MtGOX Investigation and Liquidation"
http://blog.kraken.com/post/103599171158/mt-gox-bankruptcy

Smells like a big pile of steaming bullshit to me

No bullshit, the CEO of Kraken is the CEO of Payward, which was selected to assist Kobayashi, quoting:

Upon obtaining approval from the Tokyo District Court, as of November 26, 2014,
I decided on Payward Japan K.K., which is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Payward.
Inc. (“Payward”), as the supporting company and entered into the “Agreement
Concerning Support, etc. of Bankruptcy Proceedings”, because the Payward group
was considered to be the most suitable among the candidates.
In addition, as stated above, the agreement stipulates that the Payward group will
support the bankruptcy proceedings of the bankrupt entity. Payward will not
assume the business of the bankrupt entity.

Payward (CEO and Co-founder: Jesse Powell) is a corporation established on July
28, 2011 in the state of Delaware. It has outlets in the United States, Canada, the
United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Singapore and Japan, and operates the bitcoin
exchange, Kraken, with users from around the world as its clients.

IMHO, we can't HEALTHY move upwards if the MtGox issue is not properly (or improperly) resolved. There are many reasons to justify what I'm stating but it's not our subject right now. The good thing is that Kraken will be the middle company. I trust these guys more than any other BTC Exchange out there. In any case this won't be something that we should keep our breath on, since it's been routed for later (mid-April) from what it's stated on the announcement.

https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20141126_announcement.pdf
https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/20141126_document.pdf

After that CCMF it is...

[soullyG]

Houbi and OKCoin pumping

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

they never hacked into his computers, and whether or not they can follow them on the blockchain is irrelevant.

Perhaps I am mis-remembering about the hacking.  But, from day 0, the police can buy stuff on the site, pay in bitcoins, and follow them on the blockchain.  That tracing could reveal if there were other wallets beyond those that that they seized (~30'000 on the server and ~150'000 on his laptop). 

[jonoiv]

Great to see the thread default attitude towards women remains the same*



*let's not have another debate about whether women exist on the internet, we're here...deal with it.

Please explain how it's sexist.  Because after growing up with a feminist mother and sister, I still don't get it.  It may be in questionable taste to some people, but really is it sexist.  Is it really true, that by posting the photo, and making a comment about her body really sexist?  Does it show a disrespect towards women...?   Personally I don't think it does.

Would it be homophobic, to post a photo of an attractive gay guy?  

Wether it fits your idea of sexist is almost beside the point. It creates an atmosphere that is less than inviting to women and where they feel  left out. If %70 of the posts where pics of bulges and gifs of flapping penises I know I would feel quite left out.

PS. This is my opinion on the matter. Howeve, I´m not very good at being a feminist so you might catch me saying something stupid in other posts.

do you think it's fair to repress male behavior?  Do you think young people running in the streets is unfair to old people with walking sticks? Do you think a homogenised society is the path to Utopia?

If so, go back to your logans run society, and please don't use the keyboard anymore... because it's hardly inviting to those without fingers.   You fucking finger Nazi !!!  

You can probably be as manly as you dream of without being a donkeyhole. By cultivating work related spaces where women feel unwelcome we contribute to shaping societies where up to 50% of the greatest talents never find their rightful place as professionals simply because they are women. They are regularly being bypassed for positions by far less competent men because the guy is one of the boss's drinking buddies after work. Beyond it being unfair, it is detrimental to GDP growth and efficiency in the economy in general.

Are you serious? I have heard all about the glass ceiling from my mother and sister for decades.  I understand the point that discrimination happens to women. You also must understand discrimination happens to almost every person at some point in their lives;  Educated, uneducated, old, young, black, white, gay, straight, short, tall, fat, thin, male and female.  

Also, this is not a work related space...  it's a PUBLIC FORUM.  

I'm asking why is it sexist, to post a picture of an attractive woman?  Calling a man sexist for looking at a photo of an attractive woman, and or making a comment that she is attractive, is not sexist.  To try and repress that male behavior is sexist.

So please, get down off your high horse and deal with the fact that if a woman wants to pose in a bikini and be photographed, that's her choice, and if a man wants to look at the photo that's his choice, neither event is your choice, in this instance.

I see you understand. Thankfully you understand all too well that the main point of all of this is that by suggesting a more civil tone towards any potential woman who may frequent this forum, it is you who are the victim. I just hope every woman who reads our little discussion understands that they should either post pictures of themselves in bikinis in the forum or pretend to be a guy, so that your fragile manhood stays intact.

What tone towards a woman ?  What tone, where ?

Please point out where the woman was insulted.   I insulted you, but your username is fatMAN, I assume you are a man.  And I insulted you not based on your sex, but because you are suggesting something that's totally untrue.

The original picture...

So it's a pretty woman, who I presume has had a boob job in a bikini, admiring her own boobs.  So please tell me how this picture and comment;

1. Insults women
2. Stops women getting jobs

You will notice I used the word "Insults" and not "offends".  Because some people take offense to almost anything.  That photo does not insult women, It may offend (some) women, but how is that anyone else's concern?   If you get offended by that then I suggest you are easily offended.

As for it insulting women, that is a joke.  It offends some women.  Some women that seem to have a chip on their shoulder.



Does this insult footballers?



Does this insult men?


If he were to post a meme of someone in a wheelchair, saying he can't stop staring at the wheelchair...  The that would be an insult because that is drawing attention to a disability.  But here is the point you and several women seem unable to grasp...

BEAUTY AND BOOBS ARE NOT DISABILITIES SO THERE IS NO INSULT

[JorgeStolfi]

bulls are praying that tim draper buys them all again.

He is joining a syndicate this time.  So, probably, he does not intend to buy even a whole lot of 10'000 BTC.

[Fatman3001]

Great to see the thread default attitude towards women remains the same*



*let's not have another debate about whether women exist on the internet, we're here...deal with it.

Please explain how it's sexist.  Because after growing up with a feminist mother and sister, I still don't get it.  It may be in questionable taste to some people, but really is it sexist.  Is it really true, that by posting the photo, and making a comment about her body really sexist?  Does it show a disrespect towards women...?   Personally I don't think it does.

Would it be homophobic, to post a photo of an attractive gay guy?  

Wether it fits your idea of sexist is almost beside the point. It creates an atmosphere that is less than inviting to women and where they feel  left out. If %70 of the posts where pics of bulges and gifs of flapping penises I know I would feel quite left out.

PS. This is my opinion on the matter. Howeve, I´m not very good at being a feminist so you might catch me saying something stupid in other posts.

do you think it's fair to repress male behavior?  Do you think young people running in the streets is unfair to old people with walking sticks? Do you think a homogenised society is the path to Utopia?

If so, go back to your logans run society, and please don't use the keyboard anymore... because it's hardly inviting to those without fingers.   You fucking finger Nazi !!!  

You can probably be as manly as you dream of without being a donkeyhole. By cultivating work related spaces where women feel unwelcome we contribute to shaping societies where up to 50% of the greatest talents never find their rightful place as professionals simply because they are women. They are regularly being bypassed for positions by far less competent men because the guy is one of the boss's drinking buddies after work. Beyond it being unfair, it is detrimental to GDP growth and efficiency in the economy in general.

Are you serious? I have heard all about the glass ceiling from my mother and sister for decades.  I understand the point that discrimination happens to women. You also must understand discrimination happens to almost every person at some point in their lives;  Educated, uneducated, old, young, black, white, gay, straight, short, tall, fat, thin, male and female.  

Also, this is not a work related space...  it's a PUBLIC FORUM.  

I'm asking why is it sexist, to post a picture of an attractive woman?  Calling a man sexist for looking at a photo of an attractive woman, and or making a comment that she is attractive, is not sexist.  To try and repress that male behavior is sexist.

So please, get down off your high horse and deal with the fact that if a woman wants to pose in a bikini and be photographed, that's her choice, and if a man wants to look at the photo that's his choice, neither event is your choice, in this instance.

I see you understand. Thankfully you understand all too well that the main point of all of this is that by suggesting a more civil tone towards any potential woman who may frequent this forum, it is you who are the victim. I just hope every woman who reads our little discussion understands that they should either post pictures of themselves in bikinis in the forum or pretend to be a guy, so that your fragile manhood stays intact.

What tone towards a woman ?  What tone, where ?

Please point out where the woman was insulted.   I insulted you, but your username is fatMAN, I assume you are a man.  And I insulted you not based on your sex, but because you are suggesting something that's totally untrue.

The original picture...

So it's a pretty woman, who I presume has had a boob job in a bikini, admiring her own boobs.  So please tell me how this picture and comment;

1. Insults women
2. Stops women getting jobs

You will notice I used the word "Insults" and not "offends".  Because some people take offense to almost anything.  That photo does not insult women, It may offend (some) women, but how is that anyone else's concern?   If you get offended by that then I suggest you are easily offended.

As for it insulting women, that is a joke.  It offends some women.  Some women that seem to have a chip on their shoulder.



Does this insult footballers?



Does this insult men?


If he were to post a meme of someone in a wheelchair, saying he can't stop staring at the wheelchair...  The that would be an insult because that is drawing attention to a disability.  But here is the point you and several women seem unable to grasp...

BEAUTY AND BOOBS ARE NOT DISABILITIES SO THERE IS NO INSULT

Chillax! It is not my fault you got your manhood broken by your mom and your sister.