Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[coinableS]

We will see a recover after the black friday.

Won't we?

Black Friday has little effect on the price of bitcoin... gotta wait until December 4th or soon thereafter.... but NO guarantees anything will happen after December 4; however, less likely any kind of rally will occur prior to December 4.

Out of curiosity why are you stating an importance to December 4th?

That's the date of the auction for the seized coins.

[J3VVL]

Just say "no" to online Bitcoin storage.

Paper wallets FTW.

why not btc insured against theft like circle.com and like money is with banks

yeah lets back BTC with fiat and issue our own x50 derivatives muuahahah fools!!!

[J3VVL]

We will see a recover after the black friday.

Won't we?

Black Friday has little effect on the price of bitcoin... gotta wait until December 4th or soon thereafter.... but NO guarantees anything will happen after December 4; however, less likely any kind of rally will occur prior to December 4.

Out of curiosity why are you stating an importance to December 4th?

That's the date of the auction for the seized coins.

govt shills might pump it back to $600 lmao that would be funny

[catena5260]

We will see a recover after the black friday.

Won't we?

Black Friday has little effect on the price of bitcoin... gotta wait until December 4th or soon thereafter.... but NO guarantees anything will happen after December 4; however, less likely any kind of rally will occur prior to December 4.

Out of curiosity why are you stating an importance to December 4th?

That's the date of the auction for the seized coins.

4th will see nothing about price, because everyone know the auction data and all its effects will be already priced

[JimboToronto]

I gotta go with paper wallets as well. I don't entirely trust circle. I'll buy BTC there or Coinbase but then I'll transfer to my paper wallets.

I buy directly into paper wallets and mine directly into a paper wallet. I haven't used an exchange since May.

I do keep a couple of dozen coins at an exchange in case of an emergency or exceptional trading opportunity and less than 2 coins on my Android device for shopping, but I'm aware of the risk involved.

[WoopDeBoop]

There was talk about OKCoin taking on some major hedge fund trades -- supposedly something like $3 billion. However, it turned out that, although they were using OKCoin's platform, they weren't looking to trade in Bitcoins.

Yeah, JorgeStolfi has confirmed this several times.

Not quite... I just pointed out that the fatal sentence could also be interpreted as "the fund will use our software and/or servers", rather than "the fund will trade bitcoin at our exchange".  

However, since there was no further confirmation of the "will trade bitcoin" interpretation, and the price collapsed right away, I think that the alternative interpretation is now quite likely.

Not very scientific of you stolfi. Unless you have actual evidence to suggest that this 3bn hedge fund is not going to use bitcoin on OKCOIN then well done on becoming an out and out FUD'er.

3bn hedge funds decide to borrow software from some random btc site to trade other stuff? makes sense, because multi billion dollar hedge funds couldn't possibly buy their own servers or write their own software without involving a third party if it had  nothing to do with bitcoin.

jorgestolfi is one of the stupider trolls in here, but he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else, he's staked his reputation and ego on bitcoin being a failure, so now he's desperate for it to fail rather than end up looking the fool.

I worked with high frequency trading firms, who were in the same sort of valuation league as the afore mentioned hedge fund, these are companies that will spend $2000 on their lunch order and hire the best network and programmer guys in the world on salaries of hundreds of thousands of dollars *per month* in order to gain just a millisecond or two advantage on the market, to think they'd just co opt third party software or even borrow a server is absolutely stupid.

The only possible explanation for a hedge fund trading on a bitcoin exchange is that they have something they want, and cannot simply buy for themselves, and the only thing okcoin possibly has that they do not have or cannot buy is access to bitcoin market info, or the liquidity they need to play.

It's not neccessarily a good thing like some of the more myopic believers in here think, they could just plan to HFT the market and suck every penny out of everyone until btc is worthless, if they can. hedgefunds, HFT firms and the like do not *need* the market to increase in value to turn a profit, so the fact a hedgefund is involved doesn't neccessarily mean the price has to spike, as professor stolfi seems convinced should have happened if it were true.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[lyth0s]

I gotta go with paper wallets as well. I don't entirely trust circle. I'll buy BTC there or Coinbase but then I'll transfer to my paper wallets.

I buy directly into paper wallets and mine directly into a paper wallet. I haven't used an exchange since May.

I do keep a couple of dozen coins at an exchange in case of an emergency or exceptional trading opportunity and less than 2 coins on my Android device for shopping, but I'm aware of the risk involved.

Hopefully you never encounter a house fire.

[JimboToronto]

I gotta go with paper wallets as well. I don't entirely trust circle. I'll buy BTC there or Coinbase but then I'll transfer to my paper wallets.

I buy directly into paper wallets and mine directly into a paper wallet. I haven't used an exchange since May.

I do keep a couple of dozen coins at an exchange in case of an emergency or exceptional trading opportunity and less than 2 coins on my Android device for shopping, but I'm aware of the risk involved.

Hopefully you never encounter a house fire.

I have encrypted offsite backups.

[J3VVL]

There was talk about OKCoin taking on some major hedge fund trades -- supposedly something like $3 billion. However, it turned out that, although they were using OKCoin's platform, they weren't looking to trade in Bitcoins.

Yeah, JorgeStolfi has confirmed this several times.

Not quite... I just pointed out that the fatal sentence could also be interpreted as "the fund will use our software and/or servers", rather than "the fund will trade bitcoin at our exchange".  

However, since there was no further confirmation of the "will trade bitcoin" interpretation, and the price collapsed right away, I think that the alternative interpretation is now quite likely.

Not very scientific of you stolfi. Unless you have actual evidence to suggest that this 3bn hedge fund is not going to use bitcoin on OKCOIN then well done on becoming an out and out FUD'er.

3bn hedge funds decide to borrow software from some random btc site to trade other stuff? makes sense, because multi billion dollar hedge funds couldn't possibly buy their own servers or write their own software without involving a third party if it had  nothing to do with bitcoin.

jorgestolfi is one of the stupider trolls in here, but he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else, he's staked his reputation and ego on bitcoin being a failure, so now he's desperate for it to fail rather than end up looking the fool.

I worked with high frequency trading firms, who were in the same sort of valuation league as the afore mentioned hedge fund, these are companies that will spend $2000 on their lunch order and hire the best network and programmer guys in the world on salaries of hundreds of thousands of dollars *per month* in order to gain just a millisecond or two advantage on the market, to think they'd just co opt third party software or even borrow a server is absolutely stupid.

The only possible explanation for a hedge fund trading on a bitcoin exchange is that they have something they want, and cannot simply buy for themselves, and the only thing okcoin possibly has that they do not have or cannot buy is access to bitcoin market info, or the liquidity they need to play.

It's not neccessarily a good thing like some of the more myopic believers in here think, they could just plan to HFT the market and suck every penny out of everyone until btc is worthless, if they can. hedgefunds, HFT firms and the like do not *need* the market to increase in value to turn a profit, so the fact a hedgefund is involved doesn't neccessarily mean the price has to spike, as professor stolfi seems convinced should have happened if it were true.

tl;dr
=short and distort if it goes to zero they never have to cover and will just keep the money! muuahhaha

[nioc]

squirrel

[NotLambchop]

...
3bn hedge funds decide to borrow software from some random btc site to trade other stuff? makes sense, because multi billion dollar hedge funds couldn't possibly buy their own servers or write their own software without involving a third party if it had  nothing to do with bitcoin.
...

100% with you bro.  Because software produced by any Bitcoin-related company will always be utter shit.
What self-respecting company would even touch such garbage if they weren't planning to do something really ghetto, like trade Bitcoin?

[Newbie1022]

...
3bn hedge funds decide to borrow software from some random btc site to trade other stuff? makes sense, because multi billion dollar hedge funds couldn't possibly buy their own servers or write their own software without involving a third party if it had  nothing to do with bitcoin.
...

100% with you bro.  Because software produced by any Bitcoin-related company will always be utter shit.
What self-respecting company would even touch such garbage if they weren't planning to do something really ghetto, like trading Bitcoin?

You are on a comical roll, tonight. Not even sure what I think on the issue... but this was very funny.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[WoopDeBoop]

...
3bn hedge funds decide to borrow software from some random btc site to trade other stuff? makes sense, because multi billion dollar hedge funds couldn't possibly buy their own servers or write their own software without involving a third party if it had  nothing to do with bitcoin.
...

100% with you bro.  Because software produced by any Bitcoin-related company will always be utter shit.
What self-respecting company would even touch such garbage if they weren't planning to do something really ghetto, like trade Bitcoin?

They just wouldn't, they could produce anything they needed inhouse or buy it elsewhere. There are dozens of better, more established and reliable companies if they're looking for trading software. Okcoin has nothing going for it that they couldn't buy elsewhere from a better supplier, or produce inhouse. The only thing they have going for them is their access to bitcoin liquidity.

option 1) buy proprietary, relatively new and relatively untested trading software that no one except a few thousand bitcoin fanatics have ever used off some bitcoin exchange with a plan to use it to trade other assets.
option 2) buy reliable, well tested, proven software off one of the thousands of companies who produce platforms for trading other assets and supply it to banks, hedgefunds and other financial institutions already.

It's pretty fucking obvious to everyone, including you and stolfi which is more likely, however it doesn't fit in with your constant FUD, manipulation of facts and blatant lies to admit that a hedgefund might be trading bitcoin.

It'd be a better angle for you to take that the hedgefund is probably going to short bitcoin and manipulate the market all the way to zero than it would be to claim they're just borrowing their software to trade another asset, because that is frankly stupid

[JayJuanGee]

Every time the price goes down I am going to cheer. I don't even care if I take a long position at some point and the price goes down. I'll have the satisfaction of knowing some of the assholes on here lost money.

ONLY dufus like you are losing money...

Yeah, right lock in your losses, and then whine about it.  That makes a lot of sense.


NOT

You might actually be the village idiot of the village idiots. Mr. hahahaha you didn't buy coins at $600... $500... $400... (and probably this started at $1200) we all know that you've already lost so much money that unless a greater fool comes around you'll live under a bridge for the rest of your life. Also, you've probably lost all of those around you that love you or support you because you are an addict who cannot admit it. F---ing retard.

I have shared a lot of my personal investment details, but they are NO where near what you are asserting with your name - calling and your misinformation... so you are full of shit and likely being purposefully full of shit.  Yes, I started buying at $1200, but only small amounts, and I kept buying all year and my average BTC price currently is about $558.  However, i did NOT invest more than I can lose, and I have quite a large BTC holding.. yet I have a variety of other investments so my BTC portfolio is still less than 10% of my quasi-liquid investment portfolio.  Anyhow, it does little to no good to share information with a troll who distorts information and who fails to speak frankly about his/her its own investment strategy (b/c the troll is usually so full of shit... and that is YOU .. dear Newbie)....

Your average price is about $558. Jesus. I thought it would be at least a little lower than that. And you have "quite a large BTC holding." Jesus. If you weren't such a dick I'd feel seriously sorry for you. With the way the BTC community is becoming increasingly myopic and unwelcoming, it's dying popularity, and the constant dumping... you've already lost. You are one laughable mother---er. Sorry, but if anybody wants to call me underwater (which I am not... I am actually slightly up for the past week... slightly down for the month... and solidly up on the year)... talk to this dude instead.

You seriously are the village idiot of the village idiot group. It's like, you tried to dissuade me of it and you only provided supporting evidence for that assertion. Have fun living under a bridge.

You are pathetic.

There is NO need to feel sorry for me, even if I were a more sympathetic character.  I have NOT invested more than I am willing and able to lose, and in part I already told my story that I doubled my holdings around $600.. so I was of the belief that we were going up around that time.. there was some timing issues from my end that were kind of messed up, but I am NOT worried about my average cost, and possibly if prices stay down I will bring it down further.  On the other hand, if prices do NOT stay down, then probably it is NOT a big deal.  I am sure that there are quite a few people with higher costs per BTC (potentially including Draper), but I doubt that people in our camp, are generally worried... and even someone like Draper on his own could probably pump BTC to well over $1000 and if he were to aim for such, then there exist plenty of BTC aficionados that will be ready, willing and able to jump on board to assist in such pumping efforts.

I have NOT lost because I have NOT locked in my losses, and I do NOT plan to sell under a large number of price lowering circumstances.  There could be instances in which I would sell, but seems unlikely, at this point... b/c I am fairly confident that prices are going to return to levels much higher than my average cost per BTC.


And with your various insults, I am sure a lot of readers of your posts (if they do NOT have you on ignore) would label you as a dweeb.

[JayJuanGee]

...I started buying at $1200, but only small amounts, and I kept buying all year and my average BTC price currently is about $558. ...

JayJuanGee!  Think of how long you were banished to the moon!  You'll give us no choice but to send you back there if you don't stop!

Seriously tho, you started buying @1200 and still haven't stopped?
That's like the cheesiest after-school special with "bad kids" bullying you into Bitcoin with "Just try it once, JayJuanGee, not like you gonna get hooked!  You chicken?  Bawk bawk bawk!  Or won't your MOMMY let you?"

Was that how it went?

Or did  d00d from the internet lure you in with "Psst, kid...  You want somethin' to REALLY make you fly?"

Anyhow, I'd say get help, but I know you'll just come up with some bullshit excuse--how you don't need it, how you could stop any time if you wanted to, etc., etc.--I know Bitcoiners.

I'm NOT going to get into any extensive explanation with you because mostly I have been telling my investment story throughout my post history, and I have NOT engaged in any deceptive behavior regarding my investment strategies.... which have largely been forms of dollar cost averaging... with some timing of purchases.

I do NOT need to give any excuses because I have engaged in a solid investment strategy with less money that I can afford to lose.. I am NOT overextended in any way because I have so far invested less than 10% of my total quasi-liquid assets into bitcoin... even if bitcoin goes to zero, I will be o.k... but really, I doubt that it will..

BTC seems to be in the midst of a trend reversal; however, even if prices stay in the doldrums for one to two years, I would be o.k. to ride it out, absent some meaningful and material news. .. I do tend to reassess my BTC investment situation from time to time, but I am NOT feeling any regret or pressure to sell at any time soon.

[JayJuanGee]

We will see a recover after the black friday.

Won't we?

Black Friday has little effect on the price of bitcoin... gotta wait until December 4th or soon thereafter.... but NO guarantees anything will happen after December 4; however, less likely any kind of rally will occur prior to December 4.

Out of curiosity why are you stating an importance to December 4th?

It's the date of the us marshalls auction of the 50k btc from silkroad.  I doubt that we will have a rally before that auction date, but never say never in bitcoinlandia.  Also, no guarantee of any meaningful price action after that date, but I tend to believe that several big players, including bidders, have incentives to keep prices down until after the auction bids are in.

[Newbie1022]

Every time the price goes down I am going to cheer. I don't even care if I take a long position at some point and the price goes down. I'll have the satisfaction of knowing some of the assholes on here lost money.

ONLY dufus like you are losing money...

Yeah, right lock in your losses, and then whine about it.  That makes a lot of sense.


NOT

You might actually be the village idiot of the village idiots. Mr. hahahaha you didn't buy coins at $600... $500... $400... (and probably this started at $1200) we all know that you've already lost so much money that unless a greater fool comes around you'll live under a bridge for the rest of your life. Also, you've probably lost all of those around you that love you or support you because you are an addict who cannot admit it. F---ing retard.

I have shared a lot of my personal investment details, but they are NO where near what you are asserting with your name - calling and your misinformation... so you are full of shit and likely being purposefully full of shit.  Yes, I started buying at $1200, but only small amounts, and I kept buying all year and my average BTC price currently is about $558.  However, i did NOT invest more than I can lose, and I have quite a large BTC holding.. yet I have a variety of other investments so my BTC portfolio is still less than 10% of my quasi-liquid investment portfolio.  Anyhow, it does little to no good to share information with a troll who distorts information and who fails to speak frankly about his/her its own investment strategy (b/c the troll is usually so full of shit... and that is YOU .. dear Newbie)....

Your average price is about $558. Jesus. I thought it would be at least a little lower than that. And you have "quite a large BTC holding." Jesus. If you weren't such a dick I'd feel seriously sorry for you. With the way the BTC community is becoming increasingly myopic and unwelcoming, it's dying popularity, and the constant dumping... you've already lost. You are one laughable mother---er. Sorry, but if anybody wants to call me underwater (which I am not... I am actually slightly up for the past week... slightly down for the month... and solidly up on the year)... talk to this dude instead.

You seriously are the village idiot of the village idiot group. It's like, you tried to dissuade me of it and you only provided supporting evidence for that assertion. Have fun living under a bridge.

You are pathetic.

There is NO need to feel sorry for me, even if I were a more sympathetic character.  I have NOT invested more than I am willing and able to lose, and in part I already told my story that I doubled my holdings around $600.. so I was of the belief that we were going up around that time.. there was some timing issues from my end that were kind of messed up, but I am NOT worried about my average cost, and possibly if prices stay down I will bring it down further.  On the other hand, if prices do NOT stay down, then probably it is NOT a big deal.  I am sure that there are quite a few people with higher costs per BTC (potentially including Draper), but I doubt that people in our camp, are generally worried... and even someone like Draper on his own could probably pump BTC to well over $1000 and if he were to aim for such, then there exist plenty of BTC aficionados that will be ready, willing and able to jump on board to assist in such pumping efforts.

I have NOT lost because I have NOT locked in my losses, and I do NOT plan to sell under a large number of price lowering circumstances.  There could be instances in which I would sell, but seems unlikely, at this point... b/c I am fairly confident that prices are going to return to levels much higher than my average cost per BTC.


And with your various insults, I am sure a lot of readers of your posts (if they do NOT have you on ignore) would label you as a dweeb.

You are a sympathetic character. A victim. Seriously, "timing issues" and no losses if you haven't "locked them in." You are not a good spokesperson for why somebody should buy. It's like one logical fallacy after the next with you.

You might get lucky long-term... but that's a protracted matter (couple years down the road) and there are a lot of preceding conditions for things to work out that way.

You are not somebody who knows what they are doing. A couple of the guys -- even some of the holders -- know very well what they are doing. Not surprisingly, they are also not as insistent on bullying everybody to be a perma-bull as you are.  

[Newbie1022]

...I started buying at $1200, but only small amounts, and I kept buying all year and my average BTC price currently is about $558. ...

JayJuanGee!  Think of how long you were banished to the moon!  You'll give us no choice but to send you back there if you don't stop!

Seriously tho, you started buying @1200 and still haven't stopped?
That's like the cheesiest after-school special with "bad kids" bullying you into Bitcoin with "Just try it once, JayJuanGee, not like you gonna get hooked!  You chicken?  Bawk bawk bawk!  Or won't your MOMMY let you?"

Was that how it went?

Or did  d00d from the internet lure you in with "Psst, kid...  You want somethin' to REALLY make you fly?"

Anyhow, I'd say get help, but I know you'll just come up with some bullshit excuse--how you don't need it, how you could stop any time if you wanted to, etc., etc.--I know Bitcoiners.

I'm NOT going to get into any extensive explanation with you because mostly I have been telling my investment story throughout my post history, and I have NOT engaged in any deceptive behavior regarding my investment strategies.... which have largely been forms of dollar cost averaging... with some timing of purchases.

I do NOT need to give any excuses because I have engaged in a solid investment strategy with less money that I can afford to lose.. I am NOT overextended in any way because I have so far invested less than 10% of my total quasi-liquid assets into bitcoin... even if bitcoin goes to zero, I will be o.k... but really, I doubt that it will..

BTC seems to be in the midst of a trend reversal; however, even if prices stay in the doldrums for one to two years, I would be o.k. to ride it out, absent some meaningful and material news. .. I do tend to reassess my BTC investment situation from time to time, but I am NOT feeling any regret or pressure to sell at any time soon.

That's why you badger the heck out of anybody with a counter view... because you aren't overleveraged and feel no pressure.