bitfloor issues?

[joesmoe2012]

Couldn't agree more with this one. It takes a strong willed person to return 2.8 mil to a bunch of angry, name calling, disrespectful, personally threatening people.

Especially since it's not even really his personal responsibility since it's an LLC.

it takes a strong willed person to do the right thing? wow

you should approach Roman about partnering with him on his next business venture. you could make millions getting away with everything that the law technically allows you to

Yes, it does take a strong willed person to do the right thing over the easy and far more personally beneficial one?

Either way, just great to hear that its confirmed by the bank that they will be processing these, which is great.

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[ProfMac]

We, bitfloor's customers got robbed.  Technically Roman says he got robbed, but never posted any proof of that.  Then he just handed people IOUs and refused to discuss any of numerous options to mitigate the damage.

Why anyone would trust Roman with anything worth more than a stick of gum after that will always be a mystery to me.

What is an example of proof that might exist?

[ProfMac]

to insinuate that any amount of blame for how Roman has handled this falls on any of the victims of his fiasco is both ignorant and unconscionable

I think AudenX got results.  I think his communication focused on forward looking attempts to get our funds returned.  I think that focus helped generate an outcome that is beneficial to me, and to you.  I don't think those attempts would have worked if he had inserted personal attacks into the conversation.

[SpottedMarley]

I think AudenX got results.  I think his communication focused on forward looking attempts to get our funds returned.  I think that focus helped generate an outcome that is beneficial to me, and to you.  I don't think those attempts would have worked if he had inserted personal attacks into the conversation.

Your previous comment had nothing to do with the communication that AudenX had with anyone. You directly insinuated that the people here on this forum, in voicing their concerns and opinions in the absence of any communication by Roman, somehow affected or potentially affected the progression of a solution to this issue and you were wrong to suggest so.

Obviously, anyone with direct communication with Roman or his lawyer is going to be as congenial as possible. After all, that's what communicating with a person does, it fosters understanding and congeniality. This is why everyone is so grateful for what AudenX did for us. He gave us information that Roman either refused to or simply didn't care to give us.

[ProfMac]

I think AudenX got results.  I think his communication focused on forward looking attempts to get our funds returned.  I think that focus helped generate an outcome that is beneficial to me, and to you.  I don't think those attempts would have worked if he had inserted personal attacks into the conversation.

Your previous comment had nothing to do with the communication that AudenX had with anyone. You directly insinuated that the people here on this forum, in voicing their concerns and opinions in the absence of any communication by Roman, somehow affected, or potentially affected, the progression of a solution to this issue. And you were wrong to suggest so.

Obviously, anyone with direct communication with Roman is going to be as congenial as possible. I would be too.

You could be congenial here as well, without giving any ground. 

My previous comment was responsive to Minor Miner's question.  My view is that Minor is wrong underneath both aspects of his question:

1.  Roman did communicate, he has updated his web page with clear instructions.
2.  Roman has taken the one action that I care about:  he has relinquished control of the money to a credit union that is working to return it to us.

Despite that disagreement, my comment gives my opinion of why Roman isn't more visible: it directly responds to a question.  I cannot view your response, with the hostility and personal attacks and lack of congeniality, as a good arguement why I am wrong.

...and as always, though I clearly have a different view from Entropy, I find his comments articulate, on target, and they make me think.

[SpottedMarley]

I cannot view your response, with the hostility and personal attacks and lack of congeniality, as a good arguement why I am wrong.

I have serious doubts that anyone could ever offer you any argument, correct or otherwise, that would allow you to consider the possibility of you being wrong. Nevertheless professor, you were wrong.. and I forgive you.

[Entropy-uc]

We, bitfloor's customers got robbed.  Technically Roman says he got robbed, but never posted any proof of that.  Then he just handed people IOUs and refused to discuss any of numerous options to mitigate the damage.

Why anyone would trust Roman with anything worth more than a stick of gum after that will always be a mystery to me.

What is an example of proof that might exist?

1. Police reports filed regarding theft
2. Details of how the site was compromised and a forensic evaluation of the attack vector
3. A detailed review of what actions Roman took to mitigate losses.  Continuing to party at the London conference are not the actions of a responsible man.

----

The whole question is merely a sideshow.  I (and many others) were robbed.  Roman was a part of the vector for that theft.

[Rassah]

We, bitfloor's customers got robbed.  Technically Roman says he got robbed, but never posted any proof of that.  Then he just handed people IOUs and refused to discuss any of numerous options to mitigate the damage.

That bolded part is a total, complete, and absolute LIE. Yet you keep repeating it over and over again. Roman did discuss the options with the community, and did look for either investors, or for someone to buy up the debt. Numerous options were discussed, and all of them failed. Repaying the debt from Bitfloor's profits was the only option available to Roman. Just because you weren't around for that, doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Please do not repeat that lie again.

1. Police reports filed regarding theft
2. Details of how the site was compromised and a forensic evaluation of the attack vector
3. A detailed review of what actions Roman took to mitigate losses.  Continuing to party at the London conference are not the actions of a responsible man.

#1 I don't know about. I don't remember hearing anything about a police report, so it may not have been filed.
#2 was disclosed in depth. Roman explained the whole situation, what happened, how things were stolen, and how he screwed up.
#3 was disclosed fully, including new security methods and precautions, possible solutions to recover money, and the details of the final solution settled on. I don't remember Roman partying in London at the time.

[SpottedMarley]

I didn't come to Bitfloor until after the August heist, but I do remember being able to learn details about what happened, who's fault it was, what the new security policies would be and the plan to try and get people their money back. From what I can tell, that situation was handled infinitely better than the current situation, with regards to communication and general good will. I remember being impressed by Roman's proactive and considerate demeanor and I felt secure at least in the idea that the same sort of theft would be avoided moving forward.

Unfortunately, this time around it's like the guy could care less how anybody feels and I can only guess the difference is that last time he was interested in keeping customers and this time he's closed his business down so .. fuck the customers.

[Entropy-uc]

We, bitfloor's customers got robbed.  Technically Roman says he got robbed, but never posted any proof of that.  Then he just handed people IOUs and refused to discuss any of numerous options to mitigate the damage.

That bolded part is a total, complete, and absolute LIE. Yet you keep repeating it over and over again. Roman did discuss the options with the community, and did look for either investors, or for someone to buy up the debt. Numerous options were discussed, and all of them failed. Repaying the debt from Bitfloor's profits was the only option available to Roman. Just because you weren't around for that, doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Please do not repeat that lie again.

1. Police reports filed regarding theft
2. Details of how the site was compromised and a forensic evaluation of the attack vector
3. A detailed review of what actions Roman took to mitigate losses.  Continuing to party at the London conference are not the actions of a responsible man.

#1 I don't know about. I don't remember hearing anything about a police report, so it may not have been filed.
#2 was disclosed in depth. Roman explained the whole situation, what happened, how things were stolen, and how he screwed up.
#3 was disclosed fully, including new security methods and precautions, possible solutions to recover money, and the details of the final solution settled on. I don't remember Roman partying in London at the time.

Bullshit.  Show the posts where Roman discussed anything.  He went to ground and has been unavailable ever since.

He explicitly rejected transfers of the debt.  He didn't offer any options for public investments, at a time when there were many operating exchanges.  He didn't propose any options other than eat your held bitcoins and smile.

If you want to accuse me of lies find some facts that support your story.

Of course you think that remaining in London and partying while a quarter million dollars of customer money was gone is appropriate, so there really is no point in attempting dialogue with you.  You've joined Icebreaker and Inaba on my ignore list.

[SpottedMarley]

The amazing part is that folks on here rewarded his incompetence with $2.8M in deposits.  It's little wonder the con-men cluster around bitcoin like maggots.

My part of that 2.8M wasn't a USD deposit. I brought some btc over to Bitfloor in November.. I think maybe 10btc at that time they were trading at $11! So my level of risk was negligible .. I won't event step up to a craps table in Vegas with less than a grand so I don't really feel like I was risking (or trusting) very much at all. I multiplied those btc many times over the following 5 or 6 months.. never once did I ever intend to withdraw USD from Bitfloor. I hate USD. As I've described before, the day that Bitfloor closed some people obviously knew in advance because suddenly BTC started selling for just about whatever price you could ask. I took advantage, sold 30btc and then Roman pulled the plug without any notice at all and here I am stuck with almost $4k fucking USD on hold for months.

Yep, I got hosed. But I try to look at it like I lost less than $200, rather than the $4k that he owes me. Doesn't help very much though.. I worked my ass off for those BTC

I thank god I only sold 30btc that day. I had more than 70 in my wallet there at the time he shut down. Yanked those out ASAFP

[Rassah]

There was talk, and nothing else.  The fuck his customers attitude was there from the outset when he didn't bother to cut his junket to London short and continued when he refused to allows transfers of his debts.

Do you have a link to the theft thread? I was under the impression that the theft happened while he was backing up and upgrading the Bitfloor server, the theft itself resulting from him putting a backup of the wallet file on an unsecured backup computer, meaning he was actually there, at the Bitfloor server, when the theft happened, not in London.

Also, while he did not do the debt transfers himself due to it having added liability and a ton of other issues, he did not have any objections to debt transfers. I know this, because I had someone else's debt transferred to me.

[Minor Miner]

There was talk, and nothing else.  The fuck his customers attitude was there from the outset when he didn't bother to cut his junket to London short and continued when he refused to allows transfers of his debts.

Do you have a link to the theft thread? I was under the impression that the theft happened while he was backing up and upgrading the Bitfloor server, the theft itself resulting from him putting a backup of the wallet file on an unsecured backup computer, meaning he was actually there, at the Bitfloor server, when the theft happened, not in London.

Also, while he did not do the debt transfers himself due to it having added liability and a ton of other issues, he did not have any objections to debt transfers. I know this, because I had someone else's debt transferred to me.

There are posts where debt being bought up so that one large party could find a solution were REFUSED.   I found that laughable and that is when I knew roman was a joke (when he decided that HE could stop people from buying and selling their own personal property).  Yes, when a company owes you money, it can be legally transferred to other parties whether Roman likes it or not.  It is obvious why he did not like that solution, it would make him ANSWER to someone and stop him from giving all his friend's preferential treatment when the next "event" happened (yes, taking deposits from strangers the same days you are "warning" your friends and letting them get their money out is not allowed in the US).   This money would have been all collected by the receiver (just like madoff's payouts were all collected and redistributed).   
But the real world is not so fun, it is actually a pain in the ass to deal with hassles like rules, regs and laws. 
The guy is a joke and acts like a teenager who totaled a car he borrowed and thinks hiding from it will make it all go away.   Tinkerbell syndrome.

Tell me who does not file a police report on a theft over $10,000 let alone what we are talking about here?
That is right, NO ONE.   Or someone who is also naive enough to be merging client money and

[SpottedMarley]

Tell me who does not file a police report on a theft over $10,000 let alone what we are talking about here?
That is right, NO ONE.   Or someone who is also naive enough to be merging client money and

not to play devils advocate here, but there was technically no money stolen in the august heist, only bitcoin.

bitcoin is not legal tender and is not considered to be money in the US so i'd be surprised if a police report would have done even the slightest bit of good anyway.

i suppose malicious hacking charges, or maybe computer theft charges could be filed with the FBI.. but the police probably would not be able to take a report of actual financial theft.. or even assign a monetary value to the bitcoins stolen for that matter

i know that there was an approximate monetary value placed on the bitcoins that were stolen (quarter million US) by those like us who know how much we trade them for, but that amount is meaningless to law enforcement, so even as "stolen property" they would not be able to call it grand theft. in fact, they wouldn't even be able to call it petty theft because any value assigned to bitcoin is arbitrary in the eyes of US financial law

so.. a computer crime maybe, but not a financial crime

im not a lawyer though so i could be wrong, but from my meager understanding of bitcoin and financial law in this frakked up country, it seems about right

i know we'd all like to see bitcoin come into its own and protected under financial laws, but in the current reality they are still just imaginary, worthless bits of data. when somebody steals them from you... thats it. stolen. its the nature of bitcoin.

for this reason it really could have been Roman, or you, or me.. doesn't really matter. theyre gone

[Rassah]

Roman refused to sell the debt because no one wanted to buy the whole thing. He asked around, no one was willing to buy it all. He had no problem with individual people selling their debt, as long as they did it between themselves. I know this, because I bought someone else's debt, and was being repaid. Roman did not refuse it.

[infested999]

I like how the Bitcoin-24 situation as basically the exact same situation, except in Europe, to show you how it's supposed to be handled. When bitcoin-24 shut down the aftermath was very simple, Simon Hausdorf went to jail, Simon Hausdorf did not get out of jail until he paid back his clients money.

Now they have their money back and we don't, because this is in the US.

[SpottedMarley]

I like how the Bitcoin-24 situation as basically the exact same situation, except in Europe, to show you how it's supposed to be handled. When bitcoin-24 shut down the aftermath was very simple, Simon Hausdorf went to jail, Simon Hausdorf did not get out of jail until he paid back his clients money.

Now they have their money back and we don't, because this is in the US.

That is an excellent point. Living in America is very much like living in a cartoon.

..and not a good one.

[Rassah]

I like how the Bitcoin-24 situation as basically the exact same situation, except in Europe, to show you how it's supposed to be handled. When bitcoin-24 shut down the aftermath was very simple, Simon Hausdorf went to jail, Simon Hausdorf did not get out of jail until he paid back his clients money.

Now they have their money back and we don't, because this is in the US.

What happened with Bitcoin-24? Did Simon Hausdorf go to jail because a bank closed his account???

[Minor Miner]

Tell me who does not file a police report on a theft over $10,000 let alone what we are talking about here?
That is right, NO ONE.   Or someone who is also naive enough to be merging client money and

not to play devils advocate here, but there was technically no money stolen in the august heist, only bitcoin.

bitcoin is not legal tender and is not considered to be money in the US so i'd be surprised if a police report would have done even the slightest bit of good anyway.

I do not want to continually argue whether "something of value" was stolen and the police would take a report.    But using the logic above, you would not file a police report when your car is stolen either being cars are not legal tender.

[shitaifan2013]

I like how the Bitcoin-24 situation as basically the exact same situation, except in Europe, to show you how it's supposed to be handled. When bitcoin-24 shut down the aftermath was very simple, Simon Hausdorf went to jail, Simon Hausdorf did not get out of jail until he paid back his clients money.

Now they have their money back and we don't, because this is in the US.

What happened with Bitcoin-24? Did Simon Hausdorf go to jail because a bank closed his account???

i'm pretty sure simon never went to jail, maybe infested999 confused that with the execution of a search warrant at the beginning of the investigation.