MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[donk4u]

<dadfoundmy_> @gmaxwell any ETA on things will be legitmatly fixed?
<gmaxwell> dadfoundmy_: talk to mtgox.
 <gmaxwell> Because there isn't anything to give an ETA on elsewhere.

Gox is just buying time. When Mark was pressed on irc to implement a quick fix/ temporary solution to process btc withdrawals , he said he wants the fix to be standard on bitcoin client so he doesn't have to re-code again. Wow, a lazy Schmuck or big liar!

yeah why would he want to help his customers who have had their withdrawls stuck for weeks.  Better to let people wait for weeks and weeks more while bitcoin tanks  after already paying 25 percent markup fat pos.

lol. Why would he care now? He's the captain of a sinking ship.

True its irelevant just contemplating his thought process if he actually wasn't running a bankrupted company.

[smoothie]

I would like to see all the MTGOX supporters try to justify their recent statement blaming the bitcoin protocol/software for being "broken".

MTGOX's recent press release shows their continued effort to shift blame to everyone but themselves.

Gox needs to die after this blatant lie to try to get out of the blame of what really has gone on.

They use a custom version of the bitcoin software, that is a totally in-house issue.

Good luck to all who have FIAT or BTC stuck in their black-hole of an exchange.

[stompix]

I would like to see all the MTGOX supporters try to justify their recent statement blaming the bitcoin protocol/software for being "broken".

MTGOX's recent press release shows their continued effort to shift blame to everyone but themselves.

Gox needs to die after this blatant lie to try to get out of the blame of what really has gone on.

They use a custom version of the bitcoin software, that is a totally in-house issue.

Good luck to all who have FIAT or BTC stuck in their black-hole of an exchange.

Is there even a person who blames the protocol and not gox for this? Or course without counting the gox staff.

[biodieselchris]

Gox is such a huge market with some many players internally it has effectively created it's own private coin: GoxCoin. It currently trades at ~75% of bitcoin.

 

[Mythul]

So is everything on gox stuck forever ?

[igorr]

So is everything on gox stuck forever ?

game is over for bitcoin forever, it go to 10 usd

[donk4u]

<dadfoundmy_> @gmaxwell any ETA on things will be legitmatly fixed?
<gmaxwell> dadfoundmy_: talk to mtgox.
 <gmaxwell> Because there isn't anything to give an ETA on elsewhere.

Gox is just buying time. When Mark was pressed on irc to implement a quick fix/ temporary solution to process btc withdrawals , he said he wants the fix to be standard on bitcoin client so he doesn't have to re-code again. Wow, a lazy Schmuck or big liar!

yeah why would he want to help his customers who have had their withdrawls stuck for weeks.  Better to let people wait for weeks and weeks more while bitcoin tanks  after already paying 25 percent markup fat pos.

lol. Why would he care now? He's the captain of a sinking ship.

True its irelevant just contemplating his thought process if he actually wasn't running a bankrupted company.

It just goes to show also that it would be an easy fix to provide alternative means to withdrawls to allow customers access to money but proves because of Serpeles unwillingness to do this they are indeed bankrupt and don't have the money.

[donk4u]

<dadfoundmy_> @gmaxwell any ETA on things will be legitmatly fixed?
<gmaxwell> dadfoundmy_: talk to mtgox.
 <gmaxwell> Because there isn't anything to give an ETA on elsewhere.

Gox is just buying time. When Mark was pressed on irc to implement a quick fix/ temporary solution to process btc withdrawals , he said he wants the fix to be standard on bitcoin client so he doesn't have to re-code again. Wow, a lazy Schmuck or big liar!

yeah why would he want to help his customers who have had their withdrawls stuck for weeks.  Better to let people wait for weeks and weeks more while bitcoin tanks  after already paying 25 percent markup fat pos.

lol. Why would he care now? He's the captain of a sinking ship.

True its irelevant just contemplating his thought process if he actually wasn't running a bankrupted company.

It just goes to show also that it would be an easy fix to provide alternative means to withdrawls to allow customers access to money but proves because of Serpeles unwillingness to do this they are indeed bankrupt and don't have the money.

Igor is long ignored and biggest troll I have ever seen he has not posted one comment of any worth or substance just taking delight in other peoples misfortunes .

[itsunderstood]

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-jeff-garzik-mt-gox-wrong-bitcoin-isnt-broken/

Garzik told CoinDesk: “There are certain security practices that sites like Mt. Gox need to follow. Most notably, customer support staff and related software must not assume that transaction IDs are unchangeable, prior to being confirmed in the block chain.

“Confirmation in the block chain is bitcoin’s core security mechanism.”

[hilariousandco]

So is everything on gox stuck forever ?

Only if the ship goes down, which wouldn't surprise me.

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-jeff-garzik-mt-gox-wrong-bitcoin-isnt-broken/

Garzik told CoinDesk: “There are certain security practices that sites like Mt. Gox need to follow. Most notably, customer support staff and related software must not assume that transaction IDs are unchangeable, prior to being confirmed in the block chain.

“Confirmation in the block chain is bitcoin’s core security mechanism.”

I hope those two get this tool kicked out the Foundation.

[itsunderstood]

So is everything on gox stuck forever ?

Only if the ship goes down, which wouldn't surprise me.

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-jeff-garzik-mt-gox-wrong-bitcoin-isnt-broken/

Garzik told CoinDesk: “There are certain security practices that sites like Mt. Gox need to follow. Most notably, customer support staff and related software must not assume that transaction IDs are unchangeable, prior to being confirmed in the block chain.

“Confirmation in the block chain is bitcoin’s core security mechanism.”

I hope those two get this tool kicked out the Foundation.

Well, having been a series 7 broker, I know it's easy for brokers to screw up and/or be dishonest.  I left the biz after 6 mos, couldn't stand the smell of thieves.

So, any coin exchange who tries to make customers happy by violating the security rules, well, that's common IT managment practice, so why the surprise?  All IT industry is swiss cheese crap sold to tards for the last 10 years+.  Oh, after leaving stockbroking I became an IT expert.  In 2003 I was published in a top American science rag saying that their article on cloud computing was 100% stupid shit, and now 10 years later S. Wozniak finally understands how stupid he and all his peers actually are.

My point is: Every IT manager is hired to break security rules because the top is populated with low-IQ rich kid idiots who think their orders can bend the rules of logic --no you dumb rich shits, IT sec cannot be sacrificed on your whim.  -- Sincerely, an IT temp worker.

BTW, Edward Snowden isn't about spies, its about how shitty management of IT industry means temp work is the new normal.  It causes: shitty tech.  

[aiadvisors]

I guess I need a little help understanding what to me seems obvious.

Why doesn't Gox just invest in some mining hardware dedicated exclusively to confirming only Gox withdrawals.  It seems to me that they could queue up all Gox withdrawals for processing to this new Gox miner, which when completed, the withdrawal transactions would show up in the blockchain the first time with one confirmation already in place.

Plus they'd get to keep all those pesky mining fees they keep deducting.... assuming they're not already doing this.

What am I missing here?

[itsunderstood]

I guess I need a little help understanding what to me seems obvious.

Why doesn't Gox just invest in some mining hardware dedicated exclusively to confirming only Gox withdrawals.  It seems to me that they could queue up all Gox withdrawals for processing to this new Gox miner, which when completed, the withdrawal transactions would show up in the blockchain the first time with one confirmation already in place.

Plus they'd get to keep all those pesky mining fees they keep deducting.... assuming they're not already doing this.

What am I missing here?

Time of transactions +
time of proper security [runprogram: RESPECTTHEBLOCKCHAIN]
= too long for traders on cocaine.

[sturle]

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-jeff-garzik-mt-gox-wrong-bitcoin-isnt-broken/

Garzik told CoinDesk: “There are certain security practices that sites like Mt. Gox need to follow. Most notably, customer support staff and related software must not assume that transaction IDs are unchangeable, prior to being confirmed in the block chain.

“Confirmation in the block chain is bitcoin’s core security mechanism.”

Gavin said in the same article:

Transactions are always tracked properly by the Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind software

But he and others says different on IRC. (Some confusion about timestamps (which I don't use) redacted – too long already.):

20:28 < sturles> Question: I have an autobuy system where I give each seller an unique address to transfer to when selling, and use a
                 -walletnotify script to trigger a price check when someone transfer coins to their address.  When the transaction
                 confirms, it will write details to a file I send to the bank to do payments.
20:28 < sturles> How will this work if a tx is changed?
20:29 < sturles> Will bitcoind be able to track the changed confirmed transaction and connect it to the unconfirmed one I received?
20:29 < sturles> Otherwise the seller will get the wrong price.
20:29 < sturles> Just noticed Gavin's claim that "Transactions are always tracked properly by the Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind software".
20:29 < sturles> If that is correct, I have nothing to worry about.
20:30 < Luke-Jr> A new txid is treated as a separate transaction
20:31 < sturles> This is what I feared.  So it is not strictly true that bitcoind will track those transactions properly.
20:31 < Luke-Jr> depends on what one means by "properly" I suppose
20:33 < sturles> I use walletnotify to notify a script, and the script checks the current price.  It notes the time as well, but my current
                 time.
20:33 < gavinandresen> sturles: if you are doing this at zero confirmations, then that is a very bad idea.
20:33 < Luke-Jr> sturles: ok, same thing in this case
20:34 < Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: only the price is determined by receive time, in his example
20:34 < gavinandresen> sturles: if you are only transferring money when the transaction has more than one confirmation, then no
                       worries
20:34 < Luke-Jr> I presume he waits for it to confirm before actually sending
20:34 < sturles> I check the price at zero confirmations, and write to a file which is going to the bank when the transaction is confirmed.
20:34 < sturles> I do not pay out at zero confirmations.
20:35 < Luke-Jr> sturles: for a quick fix, I suggest applying sipa's patch and matching up the "new txid" thing
20:35 < sturles> Users want to get as close to the current price as possible.  
20:35 < Luke-Jr> sturles: be aware your system can be gamed though..
20:35 < Luke-Jr> sturles: I send a transaction that won't confirm on its own; if price drops, I double-spend. if it goes up, I confirm it
20:36 < Luke-Jr> or vice-versa might actually be the bad case..
20:36 < sturles> Wouldn't this be possible with the payment protocol as well?
20:36 < gavinandresen> If the "you" is a mining pool, then you can do this even if transactions were immutable.
20:36 < Luke-Jr> sure, that's the risk of doing 0 confirm for price
20:36 < gavinandresen> (even if transaction IDs were immutable, I mean)
20:36 < Apocalyptic> indeed
20:37 < Luke-Jr> gavinandresen: for example, CPFP could make a transaction mined only when a user decides
20:37 < sturles> I will log the unconfirmed tx and can ban users who try double spending tricks.  No problem really.
20:38 < Luke-Jr> sounds like a plan to me
20:38 < sturles> So I will need sipa's patch to track changed transactions properly in my case?
20:39 < Luke-Jr> that will protect your customers from third parties, yes
20:39 < Luke-Jr> it will still break if your users do CoinJoins, but that's less urgent I guess
20:39 < gavinandresen> sturles: see also:  https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3354
20:40 < sturles> I still do manual checks before anything is going to the bank, and the system will warn strongly if the balances don't match
                 up (e.g. confirmed transaction reversal).
20:42 < Luke-Jr> it would probably be best if B-Qt in the future tracked when TxnA is replaced by TxnB and treated them as the same in a UI
                 sense
20:42 < Luke-Jr> but that's a lot of coding/review/etc

Conclusion: Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind does not track changed transactions properly.  Changed transactions will show up as a new transaction, and I would need the  "new txid" thing to track those properly.  It is not only MtGox.  Services using bitcoind, like mine, may be vulnerable as well.

[kano]

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

2) One of the retarded devs fucked up bitcoin with a transaction handling change some time in the last ... year or 2?
I would be VERY surprised if Satoshi made that mistake in the original design.

He did.  And bitcoin-qt is affected as well.  E.g. here and more about this problem here.

Anyway, TL;DR version of the press release is:
We have discussed this solution with the Bitcoin core developers and will allow Bitcoin withdrawals again once [a workaround involving a different hash for transaction tracking purposes] has been approved and standardized.

No bug has to be fixed, nothing has to be implemented by anyone else yet, they just want a standard general solution to be approved before implementing this solution and resuming withdrawals.

OK, after looking around a bit ...
There are indeed a number of items in a transaction that you can mess with and produce the same transaction with different tx hash without owning the inputs or changing the outputs.
... and looking at it a little more closely I wonder if you are actually able to destroy a transaction by adding to the script in such a manner that the recipient won't be able to receive the coins? ... ... ... interesting ... ... ...

[njcarlos]

Conclusion: Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind does not track changed transactions properly.  Changed transactions will show up as a new transaction, and I would need the  "new txid" thing to track those properly.  It is not only MtGox.  Services using bitcoind, like mine, may be vulnerable as well.

Hm, wonder if this explains why I've heard all other exchanges updating their systems as well. I believe this mutability issue is not as "insignificant" as the core dev team is attempting to convey.

[itsunderstood]

Cryptocoin is like automobile at first...  Different fuels different whatnots, but all with the same purpose.

Indeed one could take a journey in different vehicles, two cars, one plane, one boat, then destination.  Similarly, if BTC blockchain or any other cryptocoin fails to "get you there", then yes, it might lose support and not be used.

However, it is reasonable to understand that every blockchain has a correlated app-miner-transaction-wallet .exe file which runs and is updated, etc.  So, just as cars (vehicles for humans) tend to be diverse yet all part of a set of tool with the same purpose, so too, cryptocoin has a shared purpose (capital flight and honest money which cannot be debauched as metals are) and so all coins will serve a similar purpose.  Part of the purpose of cryptocoin, is to create more simple security, so this is part of the process which ALL are now investing time, money, and face, into.

[jir0n]

I'm looking fwd to mining $2 coins, that way my wife can STFU about 'IT'S NOT JUST A HOBBY, YOU ARE MAKING MONEY'
that will put her in her place  

dear fellow friend,

i do feel with you. i also have a terror queen at home.
can we sell them for BTC?
anyone?


edit: and yes, gox sucks...:/ lost about 4k...

[smoothie]

https://www.mtgox.com/press_release_20140210.html

2) One of the retarded devs fucked up bitcoin with a transaction handling change some time in the last ... year or 2?
I would be VERY surprised if Satoshi made that mistake in the original design.

He did.  And bitcoin-qt is affected as well.  E.g. here and more about this problem here.

Anyway, TL;DR version of the press release is:
We have discussed this solution with the Bitcoin core developers and will allow Bitcoin withdrawals again once [a workaround involving a different hash for transaction tracking purposes] has been approved and standardized.

No bug has to be fixed, nothing has to be implemented by anyone else yet, they just want a standard general solution to be approved before implementing this solution and resuming withdrawals.

LOL yeah I guess then that is why all of the other exchanges are NOT having this same problem with BTC withdrawals now huh?

Keep trying to justify MTGOX's inability to run their exchange in a manner to be considered an actual exchange.

You've got the core developers calling out Mark and Gox on their bullshit.

Just because bitcoin transaction malleability is an issue does not mean that a temporary fix hasn't been implemented to handle and check for TX id changes after they been initiated. Even Gavin A. and Jeff Garzik will attest to this.

http://www.coindesk.com/gavin-andresen-jeff-garzik-mt-gox-wrong-bitcoin-isnt-broken/

Jeff Garzik:

The #bitcoin protocol and network are just fine today.  Let's not over-react about a technical issue in one custom implementation.

“There are certain security practices that sites like Mt. Gox need to follow. Most notably, customer support staff and related software must not assume that transaction IDs are unchangeable, prior to being confirmed in the block chain.

“Confirmation in the block chain is bitcoin’s core security mechanism.”

This has now come down to a finger pointing of who is to really blame in all of this. Even if I knew nothing technical about how the bitcoin code works and just looked at the mere reputation MTGOX has had compared to both Gavin and Jeff's reputation I would be less inclined to believe MTGOX and more so the core developers.

It is public knowledge that MTGOX uses a custom implementation of the bitcoin protocol. This alone speaks volumes on whose responsibility it is to keep the code well tested and managed to avoid issues like they have been supposedly having.

The core developers have no reason to lie about this as they are not the ones with customers they have to answer to like MTGOX has.

[mmitech]

I'm looking fwd to mining $2 coins, that way my wife can STFU about 'IT'S NOT JUST A HOBBY, YOU ARE MAKING MONEY'
that will put her in her place  

dear fellow friend,

i do feel with you. i also have a terror queen at home.
can we sell them for BTC?
anyone?


edit: and yes, gox sucks...:/ lost about 4k...

this make me feel good about my wife, when I first knew about bitcoin I wasn't sure about the whole thing but I wanted to studie it more and give it a try and she pushed me to do it... she never finished her logistic engineer's degree, but now she is writing her diploma about bitcoin, yes it is never too late, a house wife with 3 kids and still enthusiastic about Bitcoin, how cool is that ?