MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

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[FrictionlessCoin]

140000 btc is the honest estimate, if you sum all sell orders of 30-200btc following the same periodical pattern during the last week @mtgox. there was no real possibility to buy back lower. as soon as the whale stopped dumping for some minutes, the price rushed up again because the order book above was very thin. you could have bought only 300btc and the price would have been back to us$500+ levels. the whale dumped more then 1000btc per hour. many users where irritated, who the hell sells off all his bitcoins at such a low level.

I think you should not even assume that these are real BTC being sold at Mt.Gox.   

Mt.Gox can choose to flood BTC that does not exist!

This way the can buy the real ones at 25 cents on the dollar and sell it for profit elsewhere.

[FrictionlessCoin]

It's amazing to see how this scenario is playing out exactly as described:
http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-may-headed-bankruptcy/

There's absolutely no reason for Mt.Gox to have these kinds of delays. I was really optimistic about Gox being able to recover but there is no going back now. Processing withdrawals will result in a bank run in which case they'll be out of business. Not opening btc withdrawals will result in the price going close to zero, in which case they are effectively dead as an exchange.

I have no stake in Gox, no money, no btc so i'm not loosing anything but i'm invested in Bitcoin. Up until a few days ago i was hoping for Gox to fix their issues so the markets would stabilize. Now i can't help but wish this company would close for good and let everything go back to normal. It will crash the price (temporarily, i hope). But at least we can then move on. This is like the Sword of Damocles hoovering over Bitcoin and it's hurting the comunity as a whole.

If we make the assumption that the BTC being sold at Mt.Gox is made up,  then it impossible for Mt.Gox to even allow BTC withdrawals.  That would create a massive short squeeze.

Meanwhile, Mt.Gox has exclusive ability to send BTC out and receive fiat in.  What this allows them to do is to acquire real BTC from panicking customers and sell them in another exchange for a 300% profit.   The fact Mt.Gox is still insolvent after having days of this arbitrage opportunity available to them tells us how badly their finances may acutally be.

[whave]

It's amazing to see how this scenario is playing out exactly as described:
http://www.coindesk.com/mt-gox-may-headed-bankruptcy/

There's absolutely no reason for Mt.Gox to have these kinds of delays. I was really optimistic about Gox being able to recover but there is no going back now. Processing withdrawals will result in a bank run in which case they'll be out of business. Not opening btc withdrawals will result in the price going close to zero, in which case they are effectively dead as an exchange.

I have no stake in Gox, no money, no btc so i'm not loosing anything but i'm invested in Bitcoin. Up until a few days ago i was hoping for Gox to fix their issues so the markets would stabilize. Now i can't help but wish this company would close for good and let everything go back to normal. It will crash the price (temporarily, i hope). But at least we can then move on. This is like the Sword of Damocles hoovering over Bitcoin and it's hurting the comunity as a whole.

If we make the assumption that the BTC being sold at Mt.Gox is made up,  then it impossible for Mt.Gox to even allow BTC withdrawals.  That would create a massive short squeeze.

Meanwhile, Mt.Gox has exclusive ability to send BTC out and receive fiat in.  What this allows them to do is to acquire real BTC from panicking customers and sell them in another exchange for a 300% profit.   The fact Mt.Gox is still insolvent after having days of this arbitrage opportunity available to them tells us how badly their finances may acutally be.

If we make the assumption that the lizard people are combining the powers of HAARP and the chemtrails to induce foolish paranoias in people's minds, then they seem to be quite successful.

[smoothie]

LOL gox . Such an awesome announcement just going to delay as long a s possible and sell 5 dollars shares until they have dropped bitcoin to alltime laws while gox thieves  flood legitamate bitcoin sites with mtgoxs inferior bitcoin such a travesty. The fact that gox trading isn't shut down until people can withdraw just goes to show what people in mainstream currency have been saying all along (bitcoin in itself  is a fraud)


I am relieved mt gox employees will now be secure working from their residences instead of plush japan offices. Looking forward for next weeks gox announcement how they are working feverishly yada yada all coins safe as bitcoin keeps losing value .

Technically MTGOX is the fraud, not Bitcoin.

MTGOX are just a bunch of pansies running scared now.

[TheKoziTwo]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

[donk4u]

LOL gox . Such an awesome announcement just going to delay as long a s possible and sell 5 dollars shares until they have dropped bitcoin to alltime laws while gox thieves  flood legitamate bitcoin sites with mtgoxs inferior bitcoin such a travesty. The fact that gox trading isn't shut down until people can withdraw just goes to show what people in mainstream currency have been saying all along (bitcoin in itself  is a fraud)


I am relieved mt gox employees will now be secure working from their residences instead of plush japan offices. Looking forward for next weeks gox announcement how they are working feverishly yada yada all coins safe as bitcoin keeps losing value .

Technically MTGOX is the fraud, not Bitcoin.

MTGOX are just a bunch of pansies running scared now.

True but if no restraints in place to protect the currency from this type of fraud the currency shares the blame as well for having no safeguards and allowing this type of fraud to go unrestricted.

[Hawkix]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Sturle, you can earn a lot of money - on bitcoinbuilder.com, there is 1 goxBTC valued at 0.35 BTC, so I suppose you are buying them all now, right?

[smoothie]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

Sturle's interest is in MTGOX's survival. He has shilled for them for a long long time.

Now things are getting really rocky and he is gone from the scene. lol @ "signal to noise ratio"

How about "Troll to shill ratio" has been out of whack?

[rpietila]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".

[raskul]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

Sturle's interest is in MTGOX's survival. He has shilled for them for a long long time.

Now things are getting really rocky and he is gone from the scene. lol @ "signal to noise ratio"

How about "Troll to shill ratio" has been out of whack?

indeed, some might say.. the discussion has become a tad unbalanced.. whilst I would say, reality is hitting hard.

[mdekerever]

BE PATIENT and keep your coins.
MtGox is too big to fail. 1 Mie customers !
They will find a solution : takeover by another exchange, bank loans, ...
The spread BTC / EUR is only due to intra day trader who try to create the panic.

Keep your coins and wait. Let's see in one month !

[raskul]

BE PATIENT and keep your coins.
MtGox is too big to fail. 1 Mie customers !
They will find a solution : takeover by another exchange, bank loans, ...
The spread BTC / EUR is only due to intra day trader who try to create the panic.

Keep your coins and wait. Let's see in one month !

ever heard the saying.. 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall'?

this applies.

[mdekerever]

True... But you need to have faith from time to time...

[Rampion]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".

While I've been one of sturle's most vocal critics since mid-summer, I strongly disagree on him being responsible of anything. I defended Gox myself until they crapped on a smallish 5 figures FIAT withdrawal and after 5 weeks of absurd wait and BS excuses about how their "huge" (LOL) volume was "overwhelming the traditional banking system", I decided to cancel the withdrawal, buy BTC and leave that exchange for good. Because of people like me, we had that huge spread between Gox and the other exchanges.

My original point still remains: there's no way a small/medium business like Gox is "overwhelming" a bank, I work with banks every day and if you have the money you can steadily move it - that's the freaking business models of banks, they CHARGE you for that, and imposing absurd daily limits is a way of putting a cap to their income. That's BS and only an ignorant would believe that the reason is "the huge volume" which is putting pressure on the bank. If you cannot move your money something VERY BAD is happening, name it insolvency or law enforcement action or whatever, but it's damn sure that its not because you are "overwhelming" their system. Thus, MtGox has been lying and making up bullshit excuses for months, many red flags have been raised, and the only ones responsible for having funds locked up on Gox are:

a) Gox itself (pretty obvious), because of their lack of transparence and their lousy/amateurish business practices (or let's say because they lied and took their customers for fools)
b) those who continued using gox despite the many serious red flags we have seen in the last months.

If by chance Gox has a real solvency issue because of law enforcement action, incompetence, or any other reason (which one its irrelevant: red flags are still red flags), you can be sure I will make fun of Sturles for months; but you can also be very sure that I will consider him responsible for nothing. He just gave his opinion, with which I strongly disagree - but that's it. Risto: you willingly trusted your funds to Gox despite of having first hand knowledge of the hard cold facts. Money in? No problem. Money out? hmmmm... Soon.

[donk4u]

Few days ago mt gox makes statement witdrawls processing soon due to help from blockchain folks today its they are moving offices because of security issues . Constant lies and bs gox is insolvent

[zyk]

True... But you need to have faith from time to time...

Mt. Gox -- the worlds exchange where the selling never stops and the insider of bitcoin-ponzi can ride in the sunset !

[TheKoziTwo]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".

I'm not going to look through his post history to find any exact quote, but I usually find that he has some interesting thoughts and input. What he says makes a lot of sense most of the time. While on the other hand there is a mad house of people going on and on about how mtgox is broke & other FUD. Sturle is not a shill, why is that being repeated over and over? How about some proof?

As far as losses is concerned, nobody has lost anything yet. A temporary pause in withdraw is not equal with insolvency. Let's see how this turns out before we start making assumptions. In hindsight it would have been sensible to sell BTC on gox and buy back now. But you can't put price fluctuations down as a loss, you are free to trade however you please and could have made a killing from gox being gox.

I'm not sure how you lost 150k, but surely it did not happen because mtgox stole your money but rather through you making trades that where not in your best interest.

[Bitsinmyhead]

Although I haven't got funds @mtgox anymore, I'll supply you with some information in order to support anybody who wants to sue mtgox because I'm very interested in seeing Mark Karpeles at court for his actions. lost quiet a bit during the last days when leaving mtgox.

throughout the last week immediately after the first press release of mtgox regarding halted btc withdrawals, you could observe huge rhythmic btc dumps @mtgox every 2-5 minutes following always the same pattern ("the whale of mtgox"). the sum of these dumps up to now is approx 140000 btc at an average price of around us$270. ie a us$38 mio sell-off. there were a few stuck levels eg at us$261.24 yesterday and us$148.15 the day before yesterday. these were manipulated levels by the whale serving all asks above these levels every 2-5 minutes. this is very difficult to do through the api of mtgox. but very easy if you're in charge of the order book itself.

Therefore, you'll have to deal with either a very risky investor who is going to sue mtgox as well for his us$38+ mio funds @mtgox pretty soon.

if you take into account that most of the trading fees at mtgox were paid in btc throughout the last years (default setting), it is more likely that the whale rushing all the btc on the market is mtgox resp Mark Karpeles himself. This would be an easy way to transfer the customers fiat collected throughout the last years to his own account reducing his liability in € and us$. if you further take into account, that maybe a good portion of btc stored at mtgox got stolen, mtgox might blame the bitcoin protocol ("transaction malleability") as a cause for the loss. the result: Mark Karpeles got the customers fiat, the customers got stolen btc. the customers could file a charge against an unknown person for stealing their btc.

what does this mean? --> all data on the servers of mtgox must be assured immediately in order to investigate the fraud.

ressources:
http://bitcoincharts.com/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html

Very good post, which I think is pretty much spot on.

However I see one problem, with the price now at $115 and an 80% spread, for this selling to still be profitable Mark will have to claim more than 80% of the coins are gone. How is he going to argue that he has blindly been emptying out 80% of Gox' wallets without questioning what is going on?

[donk4u]

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.

Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".

I'm not going to look through his post history to find any exact quote, but I usually find that he has some interesting thoughts and input. What he says makes a lot of sense most of the time. While on the other hand there is a mad house of people going on and on about how mtgox is broke & other FUD. Sturle is not a shill, why is that being repeated over and over? How about some proof?

As far as losses is concerned, nobody has lost anything yet. A temporary pause in withdraw is not equal with insolvency. Let's see how this turns out before we start making assumptions. In hindsight it would have been sensible to sell BTC on gox and buy back now. But you can't put price fluctuations down as a loss, you are free to trade however you please and could have made a killing from gox being gox.

I'm not sure how you lost 150k, but surely it did not happen because mtgox stole your money but rather through you making trades that where not in your best interest.

gox ransomed my funds on jan 27 when bitcoin was trading at 850 or so now it is trading at under 600 how have people who have had their money tied up on gox not lost anything ? constant lies about being able to withdraw  are a pretty goodindicators of insolvency. I am again relieved that gox has their priorities straight and is putting thier  personal security to the forefront by moving offices at the forefront of any activity.