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Author Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]  (Read 877003 times)
Bitsinmyhead
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February 20, 2014, 06:12:44 PM
 #4701

Although I haven't got funds @mtgox anymore, I'll supply you with some information in order to support anybody who wants to sue mtgox because I'm very interested in seeing Mark Karpeles at court for his actions. lost quiet a bit during the last days when leaving mtgox.

throughout the last week immediately after the first press release of mtgox regarding halted btc withdrawals, you could observe huge rhythmic btc dumps @mtgox every 2-5 minutes following always the same pattern ("the whale of mtgox"). the sum of these dumps up to now is approx 140000 btc at an average price of around us$270. ie a us$38 mio sell-off. there were a few stuck levels eg at us$261.24 yesterday and us$148.15 the day before yesterday. these were manipulated levels by the whale serving all asks above these levels every 2-5 minutes. this is very difficult to do through the api of mtgox. but very easy if you're in charge of the order book itself.

Therefore, you'll have to deal with either a very risky investor who is going to sue mtgox as well for his us$38+ mio funds @mtgox pretty soon.

if you take into account that most of the trading fees at mtgox were paid in btc throughout the last years (default setting), it is more likely that the whale rushing all the btc on the market is mtgox resp Mark Karpeles himself. This would be an easy way to transfer the customers fiat collected throughout the last years to his own account reducing his liability in € and us$. if you further take into account, that maybe a good portion of btc stored at mtgox got stolen, mtgox might blame the bitcoin protocol ("transaction malleability") as a cause for the loss. the result: Mark Karpeles got the customers fiat, the customers got stolen btc. the customers could file a charge against an unknown person for stealing their btc.

what does this mean? --> all data on the servers of mtgox must be assured immediately in order to investigate the fraud.

ressources:
http://bitcoincharts.com/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html

Very good post, which I think is pretty much spot on.

However I see one problem, with the price now at $115 and an 80% spread, for this selling to still be profitable Mark will have to claim more than 80% of the coins are gone. How is he going to argue that he has blindly been emptying out 80% of Gox' wallets without questioning what is going on?

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donk4u
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February 20, 2014, 06:12:54 PM
Last edit: February 20, 2014, 06:31:32 PM by donk4u
 #4702

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.
Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".
I'm not going to look through his post history to find any exact quote, but I usually find that he has some interesting thoughts and input. What he says makes a lot of sense most of the time. While on the other hand there is a mad house of people going on and on about how mtgox is broke & other FUD. Sturle is not a shill, why is that being repeated over and over? How about some proof?

As far as losses is concerned, nobody has lost anything yet. A temporary pause in withdraw is not equal with insolvency. Let's see how this turns out before we start making assumptions. In hindsight it would have been sensible to sell BTC on gox and buy back now. But you can't put price fluctuations down as a loss, you are free to trade however you please and could have made a killing from gox being gox.

I'm not sure how you lost 150k, but surely it did not happen because mtgox stole your money but rather through you making trades that where not in your best interest.

gox ransomed my funds on jan 27 when bitcoin was trading at 850 or so now it is trading at under 600 how have people who have had their money tied up on gox not lost anything ? constant lies about being able to withdraw  are a pretty goodindicators of insolvency. I am again relieved that gox has their priorities straight and is putting thier  personal security to the forefront by moving offices at the forefront of any activity.
zyk
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February 20, 2014, 06:21:05 PM
 #4703

Although I haven't got funds @mtgox anymore, I'll supply you with some information in order to support anybody who wants to sue mtgox because I'm very interested in seeing Mark Karpeles at court for his actions. lost quiet a bit during the last days when leaving mtgox.

throughout the last week immediately after the first press release of mtgox regarding halted btc withdrawals, you could observe huge rhythmic btc dumps @mtgox every 2-5 minutes following always the same pattern ("the whale of mtgox"). the sum of these dumps up to now is approx 140000 btc at an average price of around us$270. ie a us$38 mio sell-off. there were a few stuck levels eg at us$261.24 yesterday and us$148.15 the day before yesterday. these were manipulated levels by the whale serving all asks above these levels every 2-5 minutes. this is very difficult to do through the api of mtgox. but very easy if you're in charge of the order book itself.

Therefore, you'll have to deal with either a very risky investor who is going to sue mtgox as well for his us$38+ mio funds @mtgox pretty soon.

if you take into account that most of the trading fees at mtgox were paid in btc throughout the last years (default setting), it is more likely that the whale rushing all the btc on the market is mtgox resp Mark Karpeles himself. This would be an easy way to transfer the customers fiat collected throughout the last years to his own account reducing his liability in € and us$. if you further take into account, that maybe a good portion of btc stored at mtgox got stolen, mtgox might blame the bitcoin protocol ("transaction malleability") as a cause for the loss. the result: Mark Karpeles got the customers fiat, the customers got stolen btc. the customers could file a charge against an unknown person for stealing their btc.

what does this mean? --> all data on the servers of mtgox must be assured immediately in order to investigate the fraud.

ressources:
http://bitcoincharts.com/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html

Very good post, which I think is pretty much spot on.

However I see one problem, with the price now at $115 and an 80% spread, for this selling to still be profitable Mark will have to claim more than 80% of the coins are gone. How is he going to argue that he has blindly been emptying out 80% of Gox' wallets without questioning what is going on?

Gox is being emptied out while we speak not blindly but intentionally.....and if no authority freezes their accounts

before the price reaches zero...then well .....there will be zero left...no Btc no cash balance just laywer costs and

the bitcoinfoundation  Wink
donk4u
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February 20, 2014, 06:26:57 PM
 #4704

Although I haven't got funds @mtgox anymore, I'll supply you with some information in order to support anybody who wants to sue mtgox because I'm very interested in seeing Mark Karpeles at court for his actions. lost quiet a bit during the last days when leaving mtgox.

throughout the last week immediately after the first press release of mtgox regarding halted btc withdrawals, you could observe huge rhythmic btc dumps @mtgox every 2-5 minutes following always the same pattern ("the whale of mtgox"). the sum of these dumps up to now is approx 140000 btc at an average price of around us$270. ie a us$38 mio sell-off. there were a few stuck levels eg at us$261.24 yesterday and us$148.15 the day before yesterday. these were manipulated levels by the whale serving all asks above these levels every 2-5 minutes. this is very difficult to do through the api of mtgox. but very easy if you're in charge of the order book itself.

Therefore, you'll have to deal with either a very risky investor who is going to sue mtgox as well for his us$38+ mio funds @mtgox pretty soon.

if you take into account that most of the trading fees at mtgox were paid in btc throughout the last years (default setting), it is more likely that the whale rushing all the btc on the market is mtgox resp Mark Karpeles himself. This would be an easy way to transfer the customers fiat collected throughout the last years to his own account reducing his liability in € and us$. if you further take into account, that maybe a good portion of btc stored at mtgox got stolen, mtgox might blame the bitcoin protocol ("transaction malleability") as a cause for the loss. the result: Mark Karpeles got the customers fiat, the customers got stolen btc. the customers could file a charge against an unknown person for stealing their btc.

what does this mean? --> all data on the servers of mtgox must be assured immediately in order to investigate the fraud.

ressources:
http://bitcoincharts.com/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html

Very good post, which I think is pretty much spot on.

However I see one problem, with the price now at $115 and an 80% spread, for this selling to still be profitable Mark will have to claim more than 80% of the coins are gone. How is he going to argue that he has blindly been emptying out 80% of Gox' wallets without questioning what is going on?

Gox is being emptied out while we speak not blindly but intentionally.....and if no authority freezes their accounts

before the price reaches zero...then well .....there will be zero left...no Btc no cash balance just laywer costs and

the bitcoinfoundation  Wink

gox did everyone a favor proving why unregulated cryptocurrency  cannot work
TheKoziTwo
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February 20, 2014, 06:32:44 PM
 #4705

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.
Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".
I'm not going to look through his post history to find any exact quote, but I usually find that he has some interesting thoughts and input. What he says makes a lot of sense most of the time. While on the other hand there is a mad house of people going on and on about how mtgox is broke & other FUD. Sturle is not a shill, why is that being repeated over and over? How about some proof?

As far as losses is concerned, nobody has lost anything yet. A temporary pause in withdraw is not equal with insolvency. Let's see how this turns out before we start making assumptions. In hindsight it would have been sensible to sell BTC on gox and buy back now. But you can't put price fluctuations down as a loss, you are free to trade however you please and could have made a killing from gox being gox.

I'm not sure how you lost 150k, but surely it did not happen because mtgox stole your money but rather through you making trades that where not in your best interest.
gox ransomed my funds on jan 27 when bitcoin was trading at 850 or so now it is trading at under 600 how have people who have had their money tied up on gox not lost anything ? constant lies about being able to withdraw  are a pretty goodindicators of insolvency. I am again relieved that gox has their priorities straight and is putting thier security by moving offices at the forefront of any activity.
Friends of mine in RL have been able to withdraw EUR just fine, again and again. There are issues with USD only, and withdraws are slow, but they do occur.

igorr
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February 20, 2014, 06:40:06 PM
 #4706

MtGox 111 usd, and what will happen when of these 500,000 Bitcoin comes to Bitstamp I can only imagine.


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Бpaтcкиx нapoдoв coюз вeкoвoй,
Пpeдкaми дaннaя мyдpocть нapoднaя!
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donk4u
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February 20, 2014, 06:42:32 PM
 #4707

I have quit reading this thread due to high volume and very low signal to noise ratio.  Just stopping by announce that my 10k EUR withdrawal from January 4th changed to pending today, and will arrive tomorrow.  I have cancelled my other withdrawals to buy BTC.
Please re-consider. There needs to be a voice of reason in this mad house. I'm sure I'm not alone in appreciating your input.

What in his input do you appreciate the most? Surely you understand that by following his advice, I would have lost about 1 million dollars compared to my biting the bullet and losing "only" 150k?

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".
I'm not going to look through his post history to find any exact quote, but I usually find that he has some interesting thoughts and input. What he says makes a lot of sense most of the time. While on the other hand there is a mad house of people going on and on about how mtgox is broke & other FUD. Sturle is not a shill, why is that being repeated over and over? How about some proof?

As far as losses is concerned, nobody has lost anything yet. A temporary pause in withdraw is not equal with insolvency. Let's see how this turns out before we start making assumptions. In hindsight it would have been sensible to sell BTC on gox and buy back now. But you can't put price fluctuations down as a loss, you are free to trade however you please and could have made a killing from gox being gox.

I'm not sure how you lost 150k, but surely it did not happen because mtgox stole your money but rather through you making trades that where not in your best interest.
gox ransomed my funds on jan 27 when bitcoin was trading at 850 or so now it is trading at under 600 how have people who have had their money tied up on gox not lost anything ? constant lies about being able to withdraw  are a pretty goodindicators of insolvency. I am again relieved that gox has their priorities straight and is putting thier security by moving offices at the forefront of any activity.
Friends of mine in RL have been able to withdraw EUR just fine, again and again. There are issues with USD only, and withdraws are slow, but they do occur.

lol gox bitcoin trading at 115 ALL IS WELL WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE ME^? ANOTHER SHILL GOES ON IGNORE
hgamezoom
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February 20, 2014, 06:48:00 PM
 #4708

Everyone please don't forget to post here if you receive any fiat withdrawal from MtGox recently.
Let's see if their company is still running.
itsunderstood
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February 20, 2014, 06:50:33 PM
 #4709

Still intact!


Check out my prescient ATS thread from 2008: "Windows XP: End the Cyberwar, Open the Code Now!" http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread411978/pg1
zyk
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February 20, 2014, 06:52:20 PM
 #4710

Of all the people outside Mt.Gox, sturle bears perhaps the most responsibility of the untold millions that ordinary people lost by listening this lulling voice of "reason".

Actually.. he's still at it on ##mtgox-chat on irc.freenode.org.

That guy sure has a lot of faith.

ALL IS WELL AT MTGOX I TELL YOU.




only that there must have been sold more BTC than Mark , Gox and depositors ever had together  LOL

really stupid those panicking japanese
OhShei8e
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February 20, 2014, 06:52:31 PM
 #4711

I'm not sure how you lost 150k, but surely it did not happen because mtgox stole your money but rather through you making trades that where not in your best interest.

+1

I had bought at $ 630, but made 5% profit ​​in bitcoin, because had sold at nealy 700$. So, I have not lost anything yet.

On the other hand, I wonder why Gox does not suspend trading. And who is trading and why? I have suspended trading for myself.
Everyone should do that. What's going on on Gox is no longer real. They have to suspend trading or provide clarity.

At these prices trading is of no interest to me. So I want to take my Coins and leave. Will this be possible again sometime?
It is neither fair nor necessary to let us customers guessing. We are adult people and have a right to know what's going on.
When the money is gone, then so be it, but I want to know. What's so hard about that? Gox treated us like children.
I don't like that.

rpietila
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February 20, 2014, 06:56:42 PM
 #4712

What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?
igorr
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February 20, 2014, 06:57:35 PM
 #4713

What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?

Game is over

Cлaвьcя, Oтeчecтвo нaшe cвoбoднoe,
Бpaтcкиx нapoдoв coюз вeкoвoй,
Пpeдкaми дaннaя мyдpocть нapoднaя!
Cлaвьcя, cтpaнa! Mы гopдимcя тoбoй!
Industro
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February 20, 2014, 07:01:23 PM
 #4714

Mark needs to issue an official statement regarding Mt. Gox's solvency NOW.

There are just too many warning signs to ignore. We need to put pressure on the media to pressure Gox. We need to swarm Gox's IRC channel. We need to pursue legal recourse and demand a explanation and ETA for uninhibited withdrawals. If there is no BTC or fiat to withdrawal, then Mark needs to state such and explain where it all went.

These are people's lives and wellbeing that are at stake here. By remaining silent, Mt. Gox is doing more than just harming the public perception of Bitcoin, they are effectively causing undue hardship on people's lives. Things are going to turn violent soon.

I've been trying to pull my BTC out of Gox since well before all this "transaction malleability" crap even came up. Transactions repeatedly failed due to too many inputs and too low of a TX fee, NOT due to transaction malleability.

If Gox is insolvent (which seems more and more likely), then they owe us the Goddamn truth and stop docking us all around with this "we're moving to a virtual imaginary office" horse shit.

Mark - ARE YOU SOLVENT OR NOT?  PROVE IT. Show us the addresses that are under your control.
donk4u
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February 20, 2014, 07:02:16 PM
 #4715

MtGox is indeed lock poker in every way the classic ponzi scheme  unravelled gg gox . Like eeks said gox is selling  for 20 cents on the dollar it is this low for a reason gox is dead in the water and gox id down for the count. Todays announcement from gox has made this all crystal clear in case it was murky or not yet a certainty previously.
zyk
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February 20, 2014, 07:22:41 PM
 #4716

What is the theory - why is goxbtc/goxusd price so low?

OMG its not a theory, its in front of your eyes !

Insiders (people connected to Mark and other readily accessibles accounts and he himself are cashing out!) no matter

what ---- nobody is doing anything about that --- so they just go on....extincting any kind of proove...creating a story

together with some parasites laywers and the die is cast - pronto
zyk
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February 20, 2014, 07:25:31 PM
 #4717

BTW--- even if it would fit but I consider Sturle as a patsy and not part that clan.
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February 20, 2014, 07:28:55 PM
 #4718


[...]

I don't know how many people on this board have experience with markets, investing, or the like outside of BTC.  But when something a good/commodity/stock/currency/anything is 80% lower in one place than everywhere else, it's never an "everything is ok" situation.  That is a huge discount.  It is real life arbitrage in the wild...provided that Mt. Gox is solvent and ok and reliable.  But arbitrage is a condition that gets shut down instantly by market forces.  Unless it's not arbitrage and is instead a reflection of something else, some other embedded risk.  That's what this is -- the market's decentralized invisible hand is saying pretty clearly that there is an 80% chance that Mt. Gox will not be honoring its debts (both USD and BTC) to its customers.

[...]

Yes, as I have said.

Good first post.

Check out my prescient ATS thread from 2008: "Windows XP: End the Cyberwar, Open the Code Now!" http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread411978/pg1
donk4u
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February 20, 2014, 07:33:37 PM
 #4719


[...]

I don't know how many people on this board have experience with markets, investing, or the like outside of BTC.  But when something a good/commodity/stock/currency/anything is 80% lower in one place than everywhere else, it's never an "everything is ok" situation.  That is a huge discount.  It is real life arbitrage in the wild...provided that Mt. Gox is solvent and ok and reliable.  But arbitrage is a condition that gets shut down instantly by market forces.  Unless it's not arbitrage and is instead a reflection of something else, some other embedded risk.  That's what this is -- the market's decentralized invisible hand is saying pretty clearly that there is an 80% chance that Mt. Gox will not be honoring its debts (both USD and BTC) to its customers.

[...]

Yes, as I have said.

Good first post.

First good post from a newbie Like the poker analogy and it really applies as poker sites are based on trust mt gox has taken a huge dumb on investors trust with no hope of reconciliating that trust .
exocytosis
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February 20, 2014, 07:34:12 PM
 #4720

What's the fastest way to deposit fiat on Gox now?

How fast is OK-Pay?


(Yes, I'm aware of the risks.)
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