[Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service

[burnin]

Whoa, so many reply's
I'll try to address all of your concerns.

avalon specs are released: https://github.com/BitSyncom/avalon-ref

Finally! but there's still stuff missing, like the communication protocol.

Im a bit unsure about burnin finally too because i contacted him via pm and twice in the thread to ask if i can visit him to check out his place and get a feeling about this all. He didnt react to this question.

I didn't react to it because i don't have that much to show at the moment.
You are of course free to Visit me, all i could show you though is my design files and source code.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, he seems to ignore any questions about his real-life identity or credentials.

I am a privacy conscious person.
Sending high res scans of my passport to strangers on the internet? - No way

Don't be surprised if he only accepts BTC when the time comes.
Who says they accept "fiat"? They would accept "euros" or "deutsche marks".

I will accept Euro and BTC, i said fiat because thats the usual term here.

Why won't he name his "officially registered company"?
Or at least the "Avionic and Military" companies in Germany he wants to contract?

Two other things to consider:
1. Why would he only accept BTC for his chips but both BTC+fiat for boards?
2. How come he hasn't disclosed how many chips he has bought from Zefir himself?
3. All his images are uploaded and hosted from Anonymouse.org

My Company is registered but not yet published in the "Handelsregister", the officials are taking their time.
Could be due to the holidays.
Why wouldn't i name my contractors? - i consider those trade secrets

1. I dont sell the Chips, i only provide an assembly service.
2. Why would that be of your concern?
3. Bitcointalk.org does that automatically to any link or image - go try it out.

Hi. He will set up an order page.

German laws considering company information on commercial websites is EXTREME. You have from tax numbers, owners, adresses, phone numbers, bank details, people responsible for design and content and registration numbers, everything on there.It costs you about 5000€ every time a malicious lawyer sees a site that does not have these, it is very dangerous and one of the most dangerous things about having a webshop in Germany: People hunting your "Impressum." They hunt you down like it is a sport and make you pay. I know some lawyers that do nothing else than that. If you want some stories, google "Abmahnanwälte."

Yes thats what kept my busy all week long!
And is the reason i wanted to stick to email orders in the beginning.
All the legal hoops one has to jump through.
And don't forget the WEEE, everyone in Germany selling electronics has to register
with a private electronic waste disposal association controlled by the big companies.
I will publish my company details for everyone to check once its in the Handelsregister.

Patience.
Let him get set up... post what he has then you can start throwing rocks.

Yes, starting a company on your own is a lot of work.  
Thats why i havn't updated the renders and details yet, the day only has 24hours.

[atcsecure]

burnin,

I for one appreciate what your doing, its not an easy road...

[SebastianJu]

I'm still a fence sitter. I'm torn between this option, and the Klondike option. I'm not willing to commit to one or the other just yet, until I see actual results and proof of concept, which can't happen until Avalon releases the source.

Thats my point too. Nothing is shown till now by any developer. But i tend to klondike too. Im a bit unsure about burnin finally too because i contacted him via pm and twice in the thread to ask if i can visit him to check out his place and get a feeling about this all. He didnt react to this question. So being forced to pay without anything to ensure me... i doubt. On the other hand... if its only claiming interest in the miner without having to pay now would be another thing...

SebastianJu,

Personally, I was hoping to hedge my bets between two developers, in case one can't deliver, or ones unit is superior in some way.
I'm sure plenty of others here have a similar plan (if not, I'd urge you all to consider it), are you fine with split shipping from your groupbuy?

Sure, you can split your chips. Of course that would mean a new package and so on. So i think the fiat-fee has to be paid again. But that wont matter much because the fee will be split around all senders that want to send to one address, in this case for example burnin.

Some people in this threat are going to Hamburg this summer and public photos so shut up and wait.

Are you the guy that works together with burnin? Please let me know the date, when this is happening because one person in my groupbuy wants to take part too.

Im a bit unsure about burnin finally too because i contacted him via pm and twice in the thread to ask if i can visit him to check out his place and get a feeling about this all. He didnt react to this question.

I didn't react to it because i don't have that much to show at the moment.
You are of course free to Visit me, all i could show you though is my design files and source code.

Ok, sounds good. Ill tell the user in my groupbuy that wants to visit you that he can. He most probably will contact you via pm for checking when it can be done.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, he seems to ignore any questions about his real-life identity or credentials.

I am a privacy conscious person.
Sending high res scans of my passport to strangers on the internet? - No way

How about sending no high-res, but a copy res enough to read the address and everything? I did the same and i cant imagine that someone can create a new id with my scan.

Yes thats what kept my busy all week long!
And is the reason i wanted to stick to email orders in the beginning.
All the legal hoops one has to jump through.
And don't forget the WEEE, everyone in Germany selling electronics has to register
with a private electronic waste disposal association controlled by the big companies.
I will publish my company details for everyone to check once its in the Handelsregister.

I can suggest opencart to you. Its a very easy shop without stupid scriptlanguages but in php. And there is an extension, or a fork, that is meant for german shops. It includes everything needed to stay by the law.

[Forrie]

I deleted the content to save space.... but you guys need to take a good hard look at yourselves!
Someone makes an offer based on a chain of requirements and people get all uppity about the terms and conditions?! If you don't like it then there are others about and take your chips there!
Personally I think burnin should be handed a medal not abuse as he will undoubtedly make less than those who chose to stay with him (a reputable person).
PS. due to personal circumstances I am taking advantage of zefir's buyback, so I have no personal interest in whether burnin has business... but I do hate seeing people try to do the right thing and get hounded for it!

[Schrankwand]

I am a privacy conscious person.
Sending high res scans of my passport to strangers on the internet? - No way

Unfortunately, this is nowadays a world wide standard, while our German laws heavily inhibit this.

The most important part, if you send out a passport to anyone, is actually to blacken the number, since it can be used to identify with adult services on the web.

Never EVER make a copy of the new ID card. It is forbidden by law to use them in this fashion. You are not even allowed to leave them with strangers, due to their electronic identification capabilities.

PS. due to personal circumstances I am taking advantage of zefir's buyback, so I have no personal interest in whether burnin has business... but I do hate seeing people try to do the right thing and get hounded for it!

This is something I noticed. Freedom of regulation is one thing, but the whole Bitcoin core community seems to be incredibly traumatized by scams. Something I find very, very sad..

As for the identification: We could just pay for the Schufa Identity check as customers and have this done with:
https://www.schufa4b.de/de/business/produkteservices_1/b2cprodukte_1/b2cidentittsprodukt_1/schufa_identitaetscheck/identcheck.jsp

Schufa has some products that are very useful for trusting. They are a nightmare once they had bad ratings on you, but quite useful to create trusting relations.

Yes thats what kept my busy all week long!
And is the reason i wanted to stick to email orders in the beginning.
All the legal hoops one has to jump through.
And don't forget the WEEE, everyone in Germany selling electronics has to register
with a private electronic waste disposal association controlled by the big companies.
I will publish my company details for everyone to check once its in the Handelsregister.

If you need any more reviewing, let me know, i can take a look or lead this to my trusted lawyer. In Hamburg, you could also pay for Wilde, Beuger and Solmecke to review your site for a small fee.

[RoadStress]

burnin,

I for one appreciate what your doing, its not an easy road...

+1 he will surely get some tips after he pulls this!

[jorgeantolini]

*cough*  SCAM  *cough*

bla bla bla

German laws considering company information on commercial websites is EXTREME. You have from tax numbers, owners, adresses, phone numbers, bank details, people responsible for design and content and registration numbers, everything on there.It costs you about 5000€ every time a malicious lawyer sees a site that does not have these, it is very dangerous and one of the most dangerous things about having a webshop in Germany: People hunting your "Impressum." They hunt you down like it is a sport and make you pay. I know some lawyers that do nothing else than that. If you want some stories, google "Abmahnanwälte."

http://theawesomer.com/photos/2012/08/300812_be_water_my_friend_t.jpg Keep waiting my friend

Sorry for the inconveniences, I dont want dirty this great post and work, this is my last moan to this.

+1 Burning

[pitchbend]

WTF people are asking Burnin to send his passport over the internet?? and to go check his house??

Guy's if you have doubts it's ok, you are very free to GTFO and stop wasting his time, no one is pointing a gun at you to buy Burnins assembly service. You deserve proof if you want it, so please move to the sides and wait till we (the people who trust him) get our boards and then -voilá- you'll have your proof and THEN you can make your decision. The guy is making a service to the community so, again, stop wasting his time with outrageous requests and go wait outside.

[SebastianJu]

WTF people are asking Burnin to send his passport over the internet?? and to go check his house??

Guy's if you have doubts it's ok, you are very free to GTFO and stop wasting his time, no one is pointing a gun at you to buy Burnins assembly service. You deserve proof if you want it, so please move to the sides and wait till we (the people who trust him) get our boards and then -voilá- you'll have your proof and THEN you can make your decision. The guy is making a service to the community so, again, stop wasting his time with outrageous requests and go wait outside.

*lol* Obviously youre new to bitcoins. I hope you wont learn it the hard way.

[wrenchmonkey]

WTF people are asking Burnin to send his passport over the internet?? and to go check his house??

Guy's if you have doubts it's ok, you are very free to GTFO and stop wasting his time, no one is pointing a gun at you to buy Burnins assembly service. You deserve proof if you want it, so please move to the sides and wait till we (the people who trust him) get our boards and then -voilá- you'll have your proof and THEN you can make your decision. The guy is making a service to the community so, again, stop wasting his time with outrageous requests and go wait outside.

*lol* Obviously youre new to bitcoins. I hope you wont learn it the hard way.

You're obviously new to reading comprehension. It's been said time and again that when these become available to order, it will be through a registered and verifiable business.

There is not ONE single reason to post copies of his personal photo ID on a public forum in this case. Especially not before he's actually got a product to sell. If you don't believe that he's got the skills to develop the board, then STFU and let him work on it. You can verify his credibility after seeing the results of his work. Calling it a scam, when he's not even accepting any payments is outright ridiculous. If this is a scam, at this phase, it's literally the WORST scam ever. Money has to change hands in order for a scam to pan out. 

[Xialla]

*lol* Obviously youre new to bitcoins. I hope you wont learn it the hard way.

+1..he don't know, what is he talking about.

[tom_o]

To clarify will it be possible to buy a board populated with ASIC chips?

I wouldn't mind sorting out the heatsinking myself but I don't want to be dealing with the hassle of buying chips then having to send them back off to be installed.

[Kickingpanda]

MOST IMPORTANTLY, he seems to ignore any questions about his real-life identity or credentials.

I am a privacy conscious person.
Sending high res scans of my passport to strangers on the internet? - No way

Somebody that is potentially going to send you thousands of dollars worth of hardware is not a stranger.

Don't be surprised if he only accepts BTC when the time comes.
Who says they accept "fiat"? They would accept "euros" or "deutsche marks".

I will accept Euro and BTC, i said fiat because thats the usual term here.

Why won't he name his "officially registered company"?
Or at least the "Avionic and Military" companies in Germany he wants to contract?

Two other things to consider:
1. Why would he only accept BTC for his chips but both BTC+fiat for boards?
2. How come he hasn't disclosed how many chips he has bought from Zefir himself?
3. All his images are uploaded and hosted from Anonymouse.org

My Company is registered but not yet published in the "Handelsregister", the officials are taking their time.
Could be due to the holidays.
Why wouldn't i name my contractors? - i consider those trade secrets

1. I dont sell the Chips, i only provide an assembly service.
2. Why would that be of your concern?
3. Bitcointalk.org does that automatically to any link or image - go try it out.

1. This is not consistent with what you have stated in your posts in the past
2. I personally don't care. I'm smart enough to stay away. But you claimed in this post that you would reserve a number of Zefir's chips for smaller orders. Wouldn't it be helpful to let people know how many they can order?
3. This isn't true either. Just right-click on other images (not by Burnin) in this post. If I was scamming somebody, I would definitely use a service like Anonymouse too.


Wow.
It's like watching a slowly sinking ship...

Just because someone is on the internet, does not remove them from accountability.
If you were doing the same transaction in real life, you would want to know more than Burnin is telling you.

I tried to warn you guys, but now it's time to just watch and wait. I guess this is Darwinism in effect.
There are people that have no business mining and this scam is going to weed them out.
On the plus side, Burnin is going to keep the difficulty from going higher, LOL...

[SebastianJu]

WTF people are asking Burnin to send his passport over the internet?? and to go check his house??

Guy's if you have doubts it's ok, you are very free to GTFO and stop wasting his time, no one is pointing a gun at you to buy Burnins assembly service. You deserve proof if you want it, so please move to the sides and wait till we (the people who trust him) get our boards and then -voilá- you'll have your proof and THEN you can make your decision. The guy is making a service to the community so, again, stop wasting his time with outrageous requests and go wait outside.

*lol* Obviously youre new to bitcoins. I hope you wont learn it the hard way.

You're obviously new to reading comprehension. It's been said time and again that when these become available to order, it will be through a registered and verifiable business.

There is not ONE single reason to post copies of his personal photo ID on a public forum in this case. Especially not before he's actually got a product to sell. If you don't believe that he's got the skills to develop the board, then STFU and let him work on it. You can verify his credibility after seeing the results of his work. Calling it a scam, when he's not even accepting any payments is outright ridiculous. If this is a scam, at this phase, it's literally the WORST scam ever. Money has to change hands in order for a scam to pan out. 

I already sent out my id to around 6 persons now in my groupbuy. No one wants that he posts it in public.

I dont call it a scam. I was only wondering that attempts to prove his person or similar things werent followed. But now, when this visit really happens iam, and the buyers in my groupbuy, can make a own overview and getting a feeling about this all.

And why should we wait until the first products are out? There are people that want to be first in the queue too and they dont want to throw money randomly around without knowing where this money goes exactly and if the person that wants the money can actually deliver. So no, waiting for your experience isnt the best plan because it means to stay behind in time.

Whatever... shouting persons down that want more security is probably a bad way to find customers. I wonder how happy burnin is with your shut up and buy attitude...

[RoadStress]

Ok thank you for your warning. Now please move along!

[wrenchmonkey]

MOST IMPORTANTLY, he seems to ignore any questions about his real-life identity or credentials.

I am a privacy conscious person.
Sending high res scans of my passport to strangers on the internet? - No way

Somebody that is potentially going to send you thousands of dollars worth of hardware is not a stranger.

Don't be surprised if he only accepts BTC when the time comes.
Who says they accept "fiat"? They would accept "euros" or "deutsche marks".

I will accept Euro and BTC, i said fiat because thats the usual term here.

Why won't he name his "officially registered company"?
Or at least the "Avionic and Military" companies in Germany he wants to contract?

Two other things to consider:
1. Why would he only accept BTC for his chips but both BTC+fiat for boards?
2. How come he hasn't disclosed how many chips he has bought from Zefir himself?
3. All his images are uploaded and hosted from Anonymouse.org

My Company is registered but not yet published in the "Handelsregister", the officials are taking their time.
Could be due to the holidays.
Why wouldn't i name my contractors? - i consider those trade secrets

1. I dont sell the Chips, i only provide an assembly service.
2. Why would that be of your concern?
3. Bitcointalk.org does that automatically to any link or image - go try it out.

1. This is not consistent with what you have stated in your posts in the past
2. I personally don't care. I'm smart enough to stay away. But you claimed in this post that you would reserve a number of Zefir's chips for smaller orders. Wouldn't it be helpful to let people know how many they can order?
3. This isn't true either. Just right-click on other images (not by Burnin) in this post. If I was scamming somebody, I would definitely use a service like Anonymouse too.


Wow.
It's like watching a slowly sinking ship...

Just because someone is on the internet, does not remove them from accountability.
If you were doing the same transaction in real life, you would want to know more than Burnin is telling you.

I tried to warn you guys, but now it's time to just watch and wait. I guess this is Darwinism in effect.
There are people that have no business mining and this scam is going to weed them out.
On the plus side, Burnin is going to keep the difficulty from going higher, LOL...

Straight out of the n00b cage and into trolling. You'll find plenty just like yourself. Nobody is saying he's not accountable. They're saying that until his business registration process is complete, and until the board design is complete, no money is changing hands, so it's a waste of time to worry about it.

Do you demand to see the passport of every individual you do transactions with in person? If somebody came into my place of business and demanded to see some ID, I'd point to my business license. If they wanted to see my passport, I'd advise them to take their business elsewhere. It's true that there are plenty of scammers out there, but unilaterally declaring anybody and everybody who offers a Bitcoin related product as a "scammer" is not only bad form, but it creates so much static that it becomes difficult for people to differentiate the real scams from the legitimate people that chicken littles like yourself like to target with scam accusations, for your own amusement.

[shapemaker]

Wow.
It's like watching a slowly sinking ship...

Just because someone is on the internet, does not remove them from accountability.
If you were doing the same transaction in real life, you would want to know more than Burnin is telling you.

I tried to warn you guys, but now it's time to just watch and wait. I guess this is Darwinism in effect.
There are people that have no business mining and this scam is going to weed them out.
On the plus side, Burnin is going to keep the difficulty from going higher, LOL...

Josh, is that you? You sure have his trolling skills.

[wrenchmonkey]

Do you demand to see the passport of every individual you do transactions with in person?

dude, this in not case, when you buying few gadgets from dealextreme. here will be hundreds or maybe thousands people involved from around the earth and in game will be thousands and thousands of dollars.

..and yes, I think, that in this special and delicate case makes sense to know, who is the guy behind forum nick. next point is common natural skepticism around bitcoin community. This place is like a magnet for cheating, fraud, scam and this kind of acting.

Dealextreme also does thousands of transactions with thousands of individuals, which amounts to thousands and thousands of dollars. Hmmm. Do you demand to see the owner's passport, before you allow other people to freely do business with them?

There's nothing wrong with healthy skepticism, but accusing somebody of fraud before he's even accepting orders/payments, or even claiming to have a product available is pretty low, even by European standards..

Maybe read the whole thread before you comment. He's offered to allow people to come talk to him face to face, do in-person pickups, etc. There's no product being offered, and no money changing hands yet. Cool your jets, and let him prove himself (or not) as things unfold. If you haven't got the patience to let him deal with the government bureaucracy involved in launching a new business, perhaps you should take up day-trading of Bitcoin, and leave this to the more measured and reasoned folks.

Or maybe you should go design your own board, and sell it for potentially thousands and thousands of dollars... 

[LiveJay]

Maybe you guys can start another post to discuss your speculation on burnin's intentions.  I'd like to keep this one free for project updates.

-Jay

[BigZee]

If I buy four boards, will it still be 100 euros per board?