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Author Topic: [Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service  (Read 623806 times)
Stack
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May 11, 2013, 01:12:23 AM
 #301

Maybe you guys can start another post to discuss your speculation on burnin's intentions.  I'd like to keep this one free for project updates.

-Jay

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May 11, 2013, 04:21:39 AM
Last edit: May 11, 2013, 06:30:50 AM by Bicknellski
 #302

Burnin.

Without revealing too much about your boards can we get any updates on design specifics. I know comparison with Bkkcoins version of a DIY Avalon will help many see that diversity is in the marketplace and will help everyone a great deal to get into more CHIP group buys. We do need as much information as possible so that we can settle people into the alternatives. BFL has a very tenuous hold on the market right now and the more project leaders can reveal the better to loosen BFL's grip and allow for more freedom in the market place.

Quote
# 10/20 Avalon chip module - 2.82/5.56 Ghash/s nominal speed
# 4 Layer thermally enhanced PCB
# PIC32 native USB-Controller
# CAN-Bus inter-module communication (Only one USB connection for up to 32 Modules)
# Power Connectors: 6Pin VGA, barrel jack for wallwart, power-stacking-connector.
# Power requirement: ~20/40 Watts @ 12V
# Onboard 25A/50A switcher for core voltage
# Easy stacking option
# Host protocol: Avalon emulation
# Temperature controlled Fan

Seeing that there is no FPGA means a lot so you are in agreement that most of these 10 -16 chip board designs and larger configurations do not need it?

Also in terms of stacking we are looking at a 600 W PSU that could supply power to how many boards?

So in terms of heat sink what will you be using Aluminium extruded like on the Avalon rigs?

The heat sinks will be connected to vias to dissipate heat or do you have something else in mind?
 
My apologies if this has been answered before in the thread. I will continue reading through and revise if necessary.

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May 11, 2013, 07:10:57 AM
 #303

Do you demand to see the passport of every individual you do transactions with in person?

dude, this in not case, when you buying few gadgets from dealextreme. here will be hundreds or maybe thousands people involved from around the earth and in game will be thousands and thousands of dollars.

..and yes, I think, that in this special and delicate case makes sense to know, who is the guy behind forum nick. next point is common natural skepticism around bitcoin community. This place is like a magnet for cheating, fraud, scam and this kind of acting.

Dealextreme also does thousands of transactions with thousands of individuals, which amounts to thousands and thousands of dollars. Hmmm. Do you demand to see the owner's passport, before you allow other people to freely do business with them?


I want to start this out by saying I think burnin is entirely legit. I can't imagine he has anything to gain by taking Avalon chips without having a use for them like, I don't know, the expertise to make them into usable hardware? If he was truly running a scam, I believe he would have more incentive to 'order' the chips for his customers in exchange for more bitcoin/fiat.

However, this argument is so full of bullshit that I just can't help but argue. Dealextreme has already served hundreds of thousands of customers, and nearly always delivers. When something goes wrong, Dealextreme makes things right when products arrive broken or don't arrive at all. Dealextreme's name itself has value because of this, and that's how they get most of their business.

If I were to open a site that was a clone of Dealextreme, with all of Dealextreme's products all priced $1 lower than their price, than I'd still have close to zero customers until a few customers ordered and(if I delivered) I started to prove I was legitimate. With that, the name of my business would gain (or alternatively, lose) value accordingly. Dealextreme had to prove this too, and I'm sure the day they published their site they had very little business, but after years of reliably delivering, they have built up their client base.

burnin's name has value on these forums, too. This is great, as burnin is going to get more business for it and won't be flamed to hell if he bumps into a problem or two while making and testing the boards. The value of burnin's name, however, is completely subjective. Many people are thinking about sending burnin thousands of dollars worth of hardware and, for many, 30 posts on a forum doesn't provide much evidence of his desires to deliver a finished product to his customers. For that reason, many want reassurance that burnin is legit. I don't agree that asking for photo identification is the proper route, especially with asking for information as sensitive as that found on a passport, but it isn't a completely invalid request.


TL;DR: Unless you have conclusive evidence that burnin will deliver, you probably shouldn't dismiss everyone who has a different opinion than you.
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May 11, 2013, 07:40:24 AM
 #304

And the merry go round starts again...

wow.

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May 11, 2013, 07:41:00 AM
 #305

Burnin.

Without revealing too much about your boards can we get any updates on design specifics. I know comparison with Bkkcoins version of a DIY Avalon will help many see that diversity is in the marketplace and will help everyone a great deal to get into more CHIP group buys. We do need as much information as possible so that we can settle people into the alternatives. BFL has a very tenuous hold on the market right now and the more project leaders can reveal the better to loosen BFL's grip and allow for more freedom in the market place.

Quote
# 10/20 Avalon chip module - 2.82/5.56 Ghash/s nominal speed
# 4 Layer thermally enhanced PCB
# PIC32 native USB-Controller
# CAN-Bus inter-module communication (Only one USB connection for up to 32 Modules)
# Power Connectors: 6Pin VGA, barrel jack for wallwart, power-stacking-connector.
# Power requirement: ~20/40 Watts @ 12V
# Onboard 25A/50A switcher for core voltage
# Easy stacking option
# Host protocol: Avalon emulation
# Temperature controlled Fan

Seeing that there is no FPGA means a lot so you are in agreement that most of these 10 -16 chip board designs and larger configurations do not need it?

Also in terms of stacking we are looking at a 600 W PSU that could supply power to how many boards?

So in terms of heat sink what will you be using Aluminium extruded like on the Avalon rigs?

The heat sinks will be connected to vias to dissipate heat or do you have something else in mind?
 
My apologies if this has been answered before in the thread. I will continue reading through and revise if necessary.

When you get time Burnin unless this has already been asked an answered.

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May 11, 2013, 01:09:44 PM
 #306

What's the estimated size of the 20 Chip PCB with mounting materials and cooling solution?

length, width, height?

What do you guys think how many gram?

Thx!

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May 11, 2013, 01:21:25 PM
 #307

Burnin, can you offer some bulk discounts or alot cheaper assembly now you have so much interest? Wink

Put it this way, if you could halve the cost of assembly due to such large demand for your services, you would probably receive double the orders (from me at least).

Let us know about final prices (50euro) asap, before all the group buys run out!

EDIT: Are we still emailing orders? i am happy to wait for the website if it doesn't effect queues

And where would be the incentive? Yeh ill do double the work for the same money, oh wait!
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May 11, 2013, 01:27:39 PM
 #308

Actually what about letting us pay MORE to jump the queue in front of your cheap clients?  Grin

Burnin, can you offer some bulk discounts or alot cheaper assembly now you have so much interest? Wink

Put it this way, if you could halve the cost of assembly due to such large demand for your services, you would probably receive double the orders (from me at least).

Let us know about final prices (50euro) asap, before all the group buys run out!

EDIT: Are we still emailing orders? i am happy to wait for the website if it doesn't effect queues
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May 11, 2013, 02:24:44 PM
 #309

And by the looks of it he will have plenty of work at the price he has given, why should or would anyone lower the price then?
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May 11, 2013, 04:55:49 PM
 #310

There will be the following order options:
1. Completed 10 Chip PCB with mounting materials and cooling solution
2. Completed 20 Chip PCB with mounting materials and cooling solution
3. Bare bones assembled 10 or 20 Chip PCBs for the DIY folks
4. Empty 10 or 20 Chip boards for hard-core DIY (If you ordered chips from Zefir i can send them together with the boards)

Burnin few question:

  • Can you post estimated cost for option 3 ?
  • Option 4 are possible if chip buy from SebastianJu ?
  • Possibility for mix buy: one completed PCB and rest as bare bones ?

thx

GandalfG


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May 11, 2013, 08:18:29 PM
 #311

Seems like we can talk sense again - great!

Seeing that there is no FPGA means a lot so you are in agreement that most of these 10 -16 chip board designs and larger configurations do not need it?

Also in terms of stacking we are looking at a 600 W PSU that could supply power to how many boards?

So in terms of heat sink what will you be using Aluminium extruded like on the Avalon rigs?

The heat sinks will be connected to vias to dissipate heat or do you have something else in mind?
 
My apologies if this has been answered before in the thread. I will continue reading through and revise if necessary.

1. I use a PIC microcontroller for this design. An FPGA makes only sense for very large designs.

2. For more then 1 or 2 modules a standard PC power supply will be the best choice.
A 600W will likely support about 12 Modules, for 16 800W or more are recommended.
I will offer the Mean Well GS60A12-P1J high-efficiency power supply as option for single modules.

3.
Yes, extruded Aluminum.

4.
My calculations show that thermal vias should be sufficient but i'm trying to get copper inlays for best thermal performance.
They are solid copper chunks laminated into the board.  


What's the estimated size of the 20 Chip PCB with mounting materials and cooling solution?
length, width, height?
What do you guys think how many gram?

135x100x50mm - still subject to change
weight: 250 to 400g


There will be the following order options:
1. Completed 10 Chip PCB with mounting materials and cooling solution
2. Completed 20 Chip PCB with mounting materials and cooling solution
3. Bare bones assembled 10 or 20 Chip PCBs for the DIY folks
4. Empty 10 or 20 Chip boards for hard-core DIY (If you ordered chips from Zefir i can send them together with the boards)

Burnin few question:

  • Can you post estimated cost for option 3 ?
  • Option 4 are possible if chip buy from SebastianJu ?
  • Possibility for mix buy: one completed PCB and rest as bare bones ?

Would be around 10 or 15eur less then the one with thermal solution.
I would have to check with Sebastian first but should be possible.
Mix buy? - no problem.

Put it this way, if you could halve the cost of assembly due to such large demand for your services, you would probably receive double the orders (from me at least).
Optimizing a design for minimal cost requires more development and testing then I can do that in the given time frame.
I might develop a revision 2, after shipping of the first few batches, that is more cost optimized.
But even that won't halve the price.
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May 11, 2013, 09:09:40 PM
Last edit: May 11, 2013, 09:32:28 PM by cimpex
 #312

Oveclocking/volting would be possible? (I'm sorry if this question has already been answered I havn't read all 16 pages.)


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May 12, 2013, 01:56:52 AM
 #313

Oveclocking/volting would be possible? (I'm sorry if this question has already been answered I havn't read all 16 pages.)
110nm at TSMC are v. mature process, but question is about tools/lib and time/money  spend for build and test by Avalon designers.
Secondly, we don't known details of agreement Avalon/TMSC - pay for working chips or wafers.
Oveclocking possibility depends from  many factors. Maybe Avalon binned chip and sell only B class. Best, from centre of the wafer after test going to their own products.
If You lucky may all your chip work over 300Mhz.

Want to say thanks? 16ragydppe9QFRVhrdwEUjgfMS7KCfEFGY
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May 12, 2013, 10:25:41 AM
 #314

with the 10 and 20 chip boards, will I be hooking up 1 USB per board? or will the boards daisy chain together to "talk" to the computer/internet?

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May 12, 2013, 11:24:57 AM
 #315

with the 10 and 20 chip boards, will I be hooking up 1 USB per board? or will the boards daisy chain together to "talk" to the computer/internet?


Quote
Stacking will be similar to the cairnsmore boards from Enterpoint.
The CAN-Bus module connection will allow modules to form a big cluster like the Avalon machines.
That way you need only one USB-Connection for up to 16 Modules, maximum bus-length >10 Mtr.


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May 12, 2013, 11:50:00 AM
 #316

burnin - when do you expect your shop / purchase website to be up and running?

Furthermore, i expect to receive chips from about 3-4 group bys, they will probably come out of order - ill forward these chips to you as i receive them

Once you receive the chips - whats your expected turn around time from returning the finished product?

Apologies if this has been asked already
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May 12, 2013, 01:06:27 PM
 #317

If people who are intending to order bothered to read even just the OP they will get 90% of the answers to their questions. Lets not clog up this thread with questions that have been asked 5 or more times before & answered just as many.

with the 10 and 20 chip boards, will I be hooking up 1 USB per board? or will the boards daisy chain together to "talk" to the computer/internet?


Quote
Stacking will be similar to the cairnsmore boards from Enterpoint.
The CAN-Bus module connection will allow modules to form a big cluster like the Avalon machines.
That way you need only one USB-Connection for up to 16 Modules, maximum bus-length >10 Mtr.

burnin - when do you expect your shop / purchase website to be up and running?

Middle of May

Once you receive the chips - whats your expected turn around time from returning the finished product?

He's given a weekly estimate of ~1000 modules per week and will be completed by chip batch# and order#



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May 12, 2013, 09:11:56 PM
 #318

Sorry my english is not so good and i was wondering.

Ordering and Pricing Info:
i offer only an assembly service this means you have to buy the Chips yourself and have them send to me for assembly.

How will the ordering work?
When ordering from me you'll have to include a message, signed by your address, that you want me to receive your chips.

does this mean i have to order the chips myself and tell the seller that i want the chips sent to burnin ? or can i place the whole order and pay for everything in one transaction?

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May 12, 2013, 11:32:28 PM
 #319

Quote
does this mean i have to order the chips myself and tell the seller that i want the chips sent to burnin ? or can i place the whole order and pay for everything in one transaction?

You either order chips yourself or buy them from a seller and send them to him.
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May 13, 2013, 12:40:23 AM
 #320


Quote
You either order chips yourself or buy them from a seller and send them to him.
can anyone tell me where i can order those chips?

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