[Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service

[SebastianJu]

Intriguing.  Looks very nice.

Couple of questions:

can the boards still stack easily with this back to back cooler arrangement?

can someone with some watercooling experience give me an idea of the BOM to cool 12 boards?
12x80 = 960W

It seems like a great idea but I'm worried it will prove expensive when you add in radiators, pumps, fans, reservoirs.  Is this going to need £300 investment on top of the cooling blocks?

it honestly all depends on the waterblock price and number of boards your going to get..

Can you translate this into cost per miner? For example "Watercooling a bitburner XX would cost X more €/$".

as burnin said earlier, the cooler will be for two bitburners and the price difference between aircooling and watercooling should be at ca. 15euro per board.



simple math.

15€ per Board for the watercooler, 280€ for the watercooling itself.

the more bitburners you cool, the "cheaper" it gets.




Watercooling is nothing for beginners, if you have no clue about it, leave it. One leak can kill your bitburners instantly!

Nice explaination.

I think before burnin didnt test the advantages of watercooling its all speculation. Only when there is a reasonable advantage it would make sense to go that route. So i hope he will test it.
And i wait for an answer from hetzner if they would allow watercooling in their datacentres anyway.

[fiktionist]

Nice explaination.

I think before burnin didnt test the advantages of watercooling its all speculation. Only when there is a reasonable advantage it would make sense to go that route. So i hope he will test it.
And i wait for an answer from hetzner if they would allow watercooling in their datacentres anyway.

been there, done that. in 2011 they did not allow it ... i think that especially in germany its not very clever to host miners in datacenters due the high costs for electricity.

[phantastisch]

Intriguing.  Looks very nice.

Couple of questions:

can the boards still stack easily with this back to back cooler arrangement?

can someone with some watercooling experience give me an idea of the BOM to cool 12 boards?
12x80 = 960W

It seems like a great idea but I'm worried it will prove expensive when you add in radiators, pumps, fans, reservoirs.  Is this going to need £300 investment on top of the cooling blocks?

it honestly all depends on the waterblock price and number of boards your going to get..

Can you translate this into cost per miner? For example "Watercooling a bitburner XX would cost X more €/$".

as burnin said earlier, the cooler will be for two bitburners and the price difference between aircooling and watercooling should be at ca. 15euro per board.



simple math.

15€ per Board for the watercooler, 280€ for the watercooling itself.

the more bitburners you cool, the "cheaper" it gets.




Watercooling is nothing for beginners, if you have no clue about it, leave it. One leak can kill your bitburners instantly!

Well , do you have recommendations for alternatives for 2 - 4 Boards without that Mora and that Laing ? Doesn't make sense to me with a small number of boards.  

[fiktionist]

with 2 boards i would go for sth. like this http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p15479_Bundle-Alphacool-NexXxoS-XT45-Full-Copper-240mm--Standard--mit-2x-Yate-Loon-D12SL-12-1350rpm.html
with 4 boards that http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p15480_Bundle-Alphacool-NexXxoS-XT45-Full-Copper-360mm--Standard--mit-3x-Yate-Loon-D12SL-12-1350rpm.html

until 4 or 5 watercoolers this pump would do its job pretty well, if more than that i would prefer the laing.

http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p13342_Alphacool-Eheim-Power-1046-12Volt-Vollkeramiklagerung-II--4m-F-rderh-he-.html

i think its safe to say:
Bitburners <100w = 2x120mm Radiator for silent cooling
Bitburners <200w = 3x140mm Radiator for silent cooling
Bitburners <300w = 4x140mm Radiator for silent cooling

everything more than that, take sth. big like the mora.

and if you are totally whack and want to overclock the shit out of these poor bitburners, take that http://www.aquatuning.de/product_info.php/info/p4742_Durchlaufk-hler-Hailea-Ultra-Titan-2000--HC1000-1650Watt-K-lteleistung--.html but thats just for the hardcore guys.

[SebastianJu]

Nice explaination.

I think before burnin didnt test the advantages of watercooling its all speculation. Only when there is a reasonable advantage it would make sense to go that route. So i hope he will test it.
And i wait for an answer from hetzner if they would allow watercooling in their datacentres anyway.

been there, done that. in 2011 they did not allow it ... i think that especially in germany its not very clever to host miners in datacenters due the high costs for electricity.

Yes, thats why i look for other countries with lower electricity. But the main reason is... i cant really host it at home. It will reach limits of home electricity, it will maybe be strange too to have such high electricitiy bills (in usa you could get a raid because they think you raise hash), its unsecure at home (miners were stolen already) and the price for electricity is high too. So datacentres look like the only solution to me.

If its true that watercooling isnt allowed then watercooling isnt a solution for me. The only thing i would try then would be to form a real tight airtunnel for my miners. From fan through heatsinks. This way i hope to optimize the heat dissipation through air. But i still search an appropriate material for forming the tunnel and fasten it. It shouldnt cause shortcuts and should be flexible and static enough.

[fiktionist]

Nice explaination.

I think before burnin didnt test the advantages of watercooling its all speculation. Only when there is a reasonable advantage it would make sense to go that route. So i hope he will test it.
And i wait for an answer from hetzner if they would allow watercooling in their datacentres anyway.

been there, done that. in 2011 they did not allow it ... i think that especially in germany its not very clever to host miners in datacenters due the high costs for electricity.

Yes, thats why i look for other countries with lower electricity. But the main reason is... i cant really host it at home. It will reach limits of home electricity, it will maybe be strange too to have such high electricitiy bills (in usa you could get a raid because they think you raise hash), its unsecure at home (miners were stolen already) and the price for electricity is high too. So datacentres look like the only solution to me.

If its true that watercooling isnt allowed then watercooling isnt a solution for me. The only thing i would try then would be to form a real tight airtunnel for my miners. From fan through heatsinks. This way i hope to optimize the heat dissipation through air. But i still search an appropriate material for forming the tunnel and fasten it. It shouldnt cause shortcuts and should be flexible and static enough.

if you wanna have watercooled systems in germany try it and give them a call   http://www.skyway-datacenter.de/deutsch/produkte/colocation/colocation.html

[Schrankwand]

Nice explaination.

I think before burnin didnt test the advantages of watercooling its all speculation. Only when there is a reasonable advantage it would make sense to go that route. So i hope he will test it.
And i wait for an answer from hetzner if they would allow watercooling in their datacentres anyway.

been there, done that. in 2011 they did not allow it ... i think that especially in germany its not very clever to host miners in datacenters due the high costs for electricity.

Yes, thats why i look for other countries with lower electricity. But the main reason is... i cant really host it at home. It will reach limits of home electricity, it will maybe be strange too to have such high electricitiy bills (in usa you could get a raid because they think you raise hash), its unsecure at home (miners were stolen already) and the price for electricity is high too. So datacentres look like the only solution to me.

If its true that watercooling isnt allowed then watercooling isnt a solution for me. The only thing i would try then would be to form a real tight airtunnel for my miners. From fan through heatsinks. This way i hope to optimize the heat dissipation through air. But i still search an appropriate material for forming the tunnel and fasten it. It shouldnt cause shortcuts and should be flexible and static enough.

In a datacentre, I guess nobody will care about the noise of your miners.

So you could just go and use high performance fans above 2500RPM...

[SebastianJu]

Hm. didnt think about that yet. Are those fans really better? What settings should i take a look on? I mean it shouldn't be some trash cheaply built in china but it should cool the miners the best they can. Of course with automatic fan-speed-change. Airflowvolume? Whats important?

Nice explaination.

I think before burnin didnt test the advantages of watercooling its all speculation. Only when there is a reasonable advantage it would make sense to go that route. So i hope he will test it.
And i wait for an answer from hetzner if they would allow watercooling in their datacentres anyway.

been there, done that. in 2011 they did not allow it ... i think that especially in germany its not very clever to host miners in datacenters due the high costs for electricity.

Yes, thats why i look for other countries with lower electricity. But the main reason is... i cant really host it at home. It will reach limits of home electricity, it will maybe be strange too to have such high electricitiy bills (in usa you could get a raid because they think you raise hash), its unsecure at home (miners were stolen already) and the price for electricity is high too. So datacentres look like the only solution to me.

If its true that watercooling isnt allowed then watercooling isnt a solution for me. The only thing i would try then would be to form a real tight airtunnel for my miners. From fan through heatsinks. This way i hope to optimize the heat dissipation through air. But i still search an appropriate material for forming the tunnel and fasten it. It shouldnt cause shortcuts and should be flexible and static enough.

In a datacentre, I guess nobody will care about the noise of your miners.

So you could just go and use high performance fans above 2500RPM...

[SebastianJu]

@burnin... what fans are included? Can you give some details? Name or rpm, airflow volume or similar...

[fiktionist]

funny thing, im in this hardware/overclocking/modding business since approx. 2001 and the best fans ive ever had were the Yate Loon D12SL - 120mm, 1350 U/min    28 dB/A    28 m³/h.

The D12SH (last letter h for high, l for low, m for medium) were pretty good too (2200 U/min    40 dB/A    149,51 m³/h) both must be around 5€ per Fan.
If i would put my miner into a datacentre i would recommend high performance fans, with as much airflow as possible.

You could also put some Delta Fans into it. (FFB1212EHE 120x120x38mm, Doppelkugellager, 4000rpm, 322m³/h, 59dB(A)) but i doubt, that the fan port on the bitburne is ready for a fan that draws itself 24w of power

But i think burnin should say something about the production heatsink, since the choice of the best fan mostly depens on the surface/material of the heatsink ...

[SebastianJu]

funny thing, im in this hardware/overclocking/modding business since approx. 2001 and the best fans ive ever had were the Yate Loon D12SL - 120mm, 1350 U/min    28 dB/A    28 m³/h.

The D12SH (last letter h for high, l for low, m for medium) were pretty good too (2200 U/min    40 dB/A    149,51 m³/h) both must be around 5€ per Fan.
If i would put my miner into a datacentre i would recommend high performance fans, with as much airflow as possible.

You could also put some Delta Fans into it. (FFB1212EHE 120x120x38mm, Doppelkugellager, 4000rpm, 322m³/h, 59dB(A)) but i doubt, that the fan port on the bitburne is ready for a fan that draws itself 24w of power

But i think burnin should say something about the production heatsink, since the choice of the best fan mostly depens on the surface/material of the heatsink ...

3.6W needs the D12SH, 24W the FFB... But the difference in airflow volume is only 150m³/h to 322... I wonder why.

[tigerbit]

3.6W needs the D12SH, 24W the FFB... But the difference in airflow volume is only 150m³/h to 322... I wonder why.

Not everything in life is linear my friend!

[francong]

I wonder if you sell un-assembled PCB and parts later on?Thanks. 

[SebastianJu]

3.6W needs the D12SH, 24W the FFB... But the difference in airflow volume is only 150m³/h to 322... I wonder why.

Not everything in life is linear my friend!

I guess then it would be better to use 2 fans of the first type instead one of the second. More efficient it seems.

[SebastianJu]

I wonder if you sell un-assembled PCB and parts later on?Thanks. 

Check my sig for a list of assemblers and their offers. There you find all options burnin will offer.

[SebastianJu]

I forgot... i asked hetzner what they think about watercooling and it looks they dont deny it from the start because the support asked me: "Is the compressor built into the 19" rack or extern?" and "how high is the probability of water leaks?"
Im not sure what the answers to this are. I guess radiator has to be outside, compressor can be inside right? But its interesting that they dont deny from the start. I wonder if its only hetzner or other datacentres too.

[fiktionist]

I forgot... i asked hetzner what they think about watercooling and it looks they dont deny it from the start because the support asked me: "Is the compressor built into the 19" rack or extern?" and "how high is the probability of water leaks?"
Im not sure what the answers to this are. I guess radiator has to be outside, compressor can be inside right? But its interesting that they dont deny from the start. I wonder if its only hetzner or other datacentres too.

the reason they denied it to me was sth like "security blabla other custormers servers in the racks blabla".

if i am honest, i would not like it if someone would put his watercooled selfmade hellmachines above my production servers in a datacentre.

[SebastianJu]

I forgot... i asked hetzner what they think about watercooling and it looks they dont deny it from the start because the support asked me: "Is the compressor built into the 19" rack or extern?" and "how high is the probability of water leaks?"
Im not sure what the answers to this are. I guess radiator has to be outside, compressor can be inside right? But its interesting that they dont deny from the start. I wonder if its only hetzner or other datacentres too.

the reason they denied it to me was sth like "security blabla other custormers servers in the racks blabla".

if i am honest, i would not like it if someone would put his watercooled selfmade hellmachines above my production servers in a datacentre.

Thats what i thougt too. But maybe they already have racks with watercooled machines so that its possible? Or they have so much free room that they can give you a new colocation rack? But i wonder anyway it if will work. I mean big radiators are needed isnt it? And even though the power cost is the biggest factor, space cost is high too. And i think one has to build everything into the colocation rack. I doubt they will happily have something stand before the rack. The pictures of the datacentres look very tidy, so most probably a design is needed where everything is inside the colocation rack.

[CumpsD]

I forgot... i asked hetzner what they think about watercooling and it looks they dont deny it from the start because the support asked me: "Is the compressor built into the 19" rack or extern?" and "how high is the probability of water leaks?"
Im not sure what the answers to this are. I guess radiator has to be outside, compressor can be inside right? But its interesting that they dont deny from the start. I wonder if its only hetzner or other datacentres too.

the reason they denied it to me was sth like "security blabla other custormers servers in the racks blabla".

if i am honest, i would not like it if someone would put his watercooled selfmade hellmachines above my production servers in a datacentre.

Thats what i thougt too. But maybe they already have racks with watercooled machines so that its possible? Or they have so much free room that they can give you a new colocation rack? But i wonder anyway it if will work. I mean big radiators are needed isnt it? And even though the power cost is the biggest factor, space cost is high too. And i think one has to build everything into the colocation rack. I doubt they will happily have something stand before the rack. The pictures of the datacentres look very tidy, so most probably a design is needed where everything is inside the colocation rack.

It puzzles me, if you are going to put your miner into a datacenter, why care about watercooling? Put insane fans on it, and let the airco from the DC take care of all the heat...

[SebastianJu]

I forgot... i asked hetzner what they think about watercooling and it looks they dont deny it from the start because the support asked me: "Is the compressor built into the 19" rack or extern?" and "how high is the probability of water leaks?"
Im not sure what the answers to this are. I guess radiator has to be outside, compressor can be inside right? But its interesting that they dont deny from the start. I wonder if its only hetzner or other datacentres too.

the reason they denied it to me was sth like "security blabla other custormers servers in the racks blabla".

if i am honest, i would not like it if someone would put his watercooled selfmade hellmachines above my production servers in a datacentre.

Thats what i thougt too. But maybe they already have racks with watercooled machines so that its possible? Or they have so much free room that they can give you a new colocation rack? But i wonder anyway it if will work. I mean big radiators are needed isnt it? And even though the power cost is the biggest factor, space cost is high too. And i think one has to build everything into the colocation rack. I doubt they will happily have something stand before the rack. The pictures of the datacentres look very tidy, so most probably a design is needed where everything is inside the colocation rack.

It puzzles me, if you are going to put your miner into a datacenter, why care about watercooling? Put insane fans on it, and let the airco from the DC take care of all the heat...

Because it maybe allows a way higher overclocking? But of course the effect of watercooling on asic's has to be proved first. I would prefer fans too if it would lead to a optimum clockrate.
You have tips for "insane fans" or you mean the models already suggested?