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CumpsD
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July 14, 2013, 03:52:56 PM |
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The models already suggested.
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SebastianJu
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July 14, 2013, 04:48:02 PM |
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I think you miss a LOT space with this design. If you would use a rack adapter you would build in way more miners. At the moment you maybe use 200mm, but colocation racks have space for 750mm depth. Much unused space.
The other thing is... why do you use 3U for PSU? ATX-PSU's are designed especially for 2HU Height. So one would pay for 1HU extra.
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fiktionist
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July 14, 2013, 04:53:06 PM |
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I think you miss a LOT space with this design. If you would use a rack adapter you would build in way more miners. At the moment you maybe use 200mm, but colocation racks have space for 750mm depth. Much unused space.
The other thing is... why do you use 3U for PSU? ATX-PSU's are designed especially for 2HU Height. So one would pay for 1HU extra.
in this demo setup you could also mount the PSU Unit and a BitBurner Unit in the front and two BitBurner Units in the back, half the height, same the fun  but what i dont get: why are the plugs for the hoses in front of the Panel, that just makes no sense. Leave the Plugs inside, so you could connect the heatsinks from the units in the front easy with those in the back, if it stays like that it will be a pain in the ass to connect all those hoses. next point: if you really are going for a datacenter you really should think about power supply redundancy. you could also use one of those sweet 19" redundant 2kw psus like http://business.fantec.eu/html/en/2/artId/__1128/gid/__2009020590/article.html |
liked that post? Official BeerAdress: 12Q9d7tntiQXARjpVSRKnQhzJy4MoAaonL
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finnzwerg
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July 14, 2013, 10:08:17 PM |
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I think you miss a LOT space with this design. If you would use a rack adapter you would build in way more miners. At the moment you maybe use 200mm, but colocation racks have space for 750mm depth. Much unused space.
The other thing is... why do you use 3U for PSU? ATX-PSU's are designed especially for 2HU Height. So one would pay for 1HU extra.
Yes we are aware of that  To build a solid PSU Panel for 2HE it would have been double-angled wich almost means double-priced  and the Rasberry PI would not fit in between the PSUs. The question is, what does the customer wants. These panels can be produced for a low price, they can be mounted into racks or even in shelves. We also had the idea for a complete Case with 26 Boards and one PSU in 3HE but building a whole case is sadly to expensive. ~300€ per pice + ~600€ developement cost. If we somebody order 1000 of them they would only cost <80€ each.http://unique-modding.de/case.PNGin this demo setup you could also mount the PSU Unit and a BitBurner Unit in the front and two BitBurner Units in the back, half the height, same the fun Cheesy but what i dont get: why are the plugs for the hoses in front of the Panel, that just makes no sense. Leave the Plugs inside, so you could connect the heatsinks from the units in the front easy with those in the back, if it stays like that it will be a pain in the ass to connect all those hoses. next point: if you really are going for a datacenter you really should think about power supply redundancy. you could also use one of those sweet 19" redundant 2kw psus like http://business.fantec.eu/html/en/2/artId/__1128/gid/__2009020590/article.htmlyes that is one way to do it to mount it from the front and from the back. We want these panels to be as modular as possible. There is no place inside for the plugs @3HE. You could either go for 4HE and mount the plugs where the Anfi-tec engraving is at the moment or go for bigger watercoolers so you would have the plugs between the power connectors. To connect one row of Boards is realy easy because you have enough space around the fittings If you have another idea where to put the fittings please draw or explain it. We are always open for suggestions. To go from the back to the front we could make some additional holes in the PSU panelWe are not going for big datacentres with these panels The redundant PSU is realy sweet - But the price for the 2000w redundant PSU is 8 times as expensive (1600€ for 1700w) as a good PC PSU(100€ for 900w). Keep in mind that nothing realy happends when the psu fails. Just connect a spare one and you are back in business. (sadly with some lost time). I guess it would be better to have more miners than 30% less with redundant PSUs. regards [Anfi-tec] Finn |
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SebastianJu
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July 14, 2013, 10:52:54 PM |
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I think you miss a LOT space with this design. If you would use a rack adapter you would build in way more miners. At the moment you maybe use 200mm, but colocation racks have space for 750mm depth. Much unused space.
The other thing is... why do you use 3U for PSU? ATX-PSU's are designed especially for 2HU Height. So one would pay for 1HU extra.
Yes we are aware of that To build a solid PSU Panel for 2HE it would have been double-angled wich almost means double-priced and the Rasberry PI would not fit in between the PSUs. The question is, what does the customer wants. These panels can be produced for a low price, they can be mounted into racks or even in shelves. We also had the idea for a complete Case with 26 Boards and one PSU in 3HE but building a whole case is sadly to expensive. ~300€ per pice + ~600€ developement cost. If we somebody order 1000 of them they would only cost <80€ each. in this demo setup you could also mount the PSU Unit and a BitBurner Unit in the front and two BitBurner Units in the back, half the height, same the fun Cheesy but what i dont get: why are the plugs for the hoses in front of the Panel, that just makes no sense. Leave the Plugs inside, so you could connect the heatsinks from the units in the front easy with those in the back, if it stays like that it will be a pain in the ass to connect all those hoses. next point: if you really are going for a datacenter you really should think about power supply redundancy. you could also use one of those sweet 19" redundant 2kw psus like http://business.fantec.eu/html/en/2/artId/__1128/gid/__2009020590/article.htmlyes that is one way to do it to mount it from the front and from the back. We want these panels to be as modular as possible. There is no place inside for the plugs @3HE. You could either go for 4HE and mount the plugs where the Anfi-tec engraving is at the moment or go for bigger watercoolers so you would have the plugs between the power connectors. To connect one row of Boards is realy easy because you have enough space around the fittings If you have another idea where to put the fittings please draw or explain it. We are always open for suggestions. To go from the back to the front we could make some additional holes in the PSU panelWe are not going for big datacentres with these panels The redundant PSU is realy sweet - But the price for the 2000w redundant PSU is 8 times as expensive (1600€ for 1700w) as a good PC PSU(100€ for 900w). Keep in mind that nothing realy happends when the psu fails. Just connect a spare one and you are back in business. (sadly with some lost time). I guess it would be better to have more miners than 30% less with redundant PSUs. regards [Anfi-tec] Finn Yes, the rack might become more expensive in production but thats not the big factor, the big factor is power cost, not much can be done here and rent for colocation space. And that rent is the big cost factor. So when you can save money for the rent because you buy a more expensive and deeper rack that is using your rent space better then in fact that would be cheaper. I guess. Im not sure... it looks like watercooling. Are you sure a colocation rack allows these tubes sticking out so far? And you need to draw tubes to the connectors at the end too. I guess that takes space for another 1HU to lay the tubes through the colocation rack. And i wonder if the doors can be closed then. But i didnt think about how watercooling could be done in a colocation rack. Only came to mind. |
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eros
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July 15, 2013, 12:11:31 AM |
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Hello I fast browse your thread, but don't find any info how pic (32MX795F512 in demo board. Same chip in production version?) firmware updates are handled?
If your firmware have bugs/improvements how installed boards are updated? Can it done through CAN bus chained board?
Have you released pic sources yet?
PIC 32MX7xx have ethernet. Have future boards ethernet socket? (maybe somebody develop standalone firmware to avoid raspi..?)
When you plan release BOM? BOM and PIC firmware(/source) are needed bare PCB order customers..
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driksson
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July 15, 2013, 08:58:01 AM |
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Hello I fast browse your thread, but don't find any info how pic (32MX795F512 in demo board. Same chip in production version?) firmware updates are handled?
If your firmware have bugs/improvements how installed boards are updated? Can it done through CAN bus chained board?
Have you released pic sources yet?
PIC 32MX7xx have ethernet. Have future boards ethernet socket? (maybe somebody develop standalone firmware to avoid raspi..?)
When you plan release BOM? BOM and PIC firmware(/source) are needed bare PCB order customers..
BOM, firmware and board designs will be released when project is done and he is in production. Also, i dont believe it to be interesting to reinvent the wheel. Raspberry Pi is a perfectly cheap solution for running CGminer from out of. It will be much more expensive to have this on each and every board.. |
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eros
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July 15, 2013, 10:52:27 AM |
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Also, i dont believe it to be interesting to reinvent the wheel. Raspberry Pi is a perfectly cheap solution for running CGminer from out of. It will be much more expensive to have this on each and every board..
Ethernet mac chip for pic32mx7xx cost ~0.99$ (in reel), rj45 socket less 0.5$, some xtal, res, caps etc and ~2cm² PCB area. Say total max 4$. RJ45 socket can leave unpopulated so customer can solder it if need. Other parts pnp machine lay board <0.1s. One board can act master and chain other 16. I see raspi ~50$ vs. ~4$ (plus onetime code/firmware generation = port cgminer to mips and some micro tcp stack). If burning boards are done say 2000pcs and every 16 needs raspi -> 125 x 45$=5600$. I can't say is it enough to modify board now. Atleast it reduce one board + wires when suitable firmware are done. I see it good option, not reinvent wheel. |
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guitar82
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July 15, 2013, 11:16:58 AM |
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A lot of the new requests in this thread seem kinda greedy. I am thrilled just to get working boards compared to all the other developers who are still having issues. Also many of the options such as ethernet, can create problems for some people shipping to other countries.
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driksson
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July 15, 2013, 12:30:34 PM |
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Also, i dont believe it to be interesting to reinvent the wheel. Raspberry Pi is a perfectly cheap solution for running CGminer from out of. It will be much more expensive to have this on each and every board..
Ethernet mac chip for pic32mx7xx cost ~0.99$ (in reel), rj45 socket less 0.5$, some xtal, res, caps etc and ~2cm² PCB area. Say total max 4$. RJ45 socket can leave unpopulated so customer can solder it if need. Other parts pnp machine lay board <0.1s. One board can act master and chain other 16. I see raspi ~50$ vs. ~4$ (plus onetime code/firmware generation = port cgminer to mips and some micro tcp stack). If burning boards are done say 2000pcs and every 16 needs raspi -> 125 x 45$=5600$. I can't say is it enough to modify board now. Atleast it reduce one board + wires when suitable firmware are done. I see it good option, not reinvent wheel. A raspberry pi is $25. and its a fully fledged computer running on archlinux, you connect your chain of Bitburners to the USB port, and cgminer on the PI does the work for you. Where would cgminer be running in your option? I definetly see it as an option, just not a necessary one for me at all. Especially, when he starts shipping, the difficulty will be way up, and second generation chips would already be taking orders. Keep it simple! |
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CumpsD
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July 15, 2013, 01:18:14 PM |
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Would like to get this thread back to being about the board itself, instead of making extra feature requests and big watercooling things, I thought we had a separate thread for that?
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a2offrb
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RISE WITH RAYS FOR THE FUTURE
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July 15, 2013, 01:19:20 PM |
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Also, i dont believe it to be interesting to reinvent the wheel. Raspberry Pi is a perfectly cheap solution for running CGminer from out of. It will be much more expensive to have this on each and every board..
Ethernet mac chip for pic32mx7xx cost ~0.99$ (in reel), rj45 socket less 0.5$, some xtal, res, caps etc and ~2cm² PCB area. Say total max 4$. RJ45 socket can leave unpopulated so customer can solder it if need. Other parts pnp machine lay board <0.1s. One board can act master and chain other 16. I see raspi ~50$ vs. ~4$ (plus onetime code/firmware generation = port cgminer to mips and some micro tcp stack). If burning boards are done say 2000pcs and every 16 needs raspi -> 125 x 45$=5600$. I can't say is it enough to modify board now. Atleast it reduce one board + wires when suitable firmware are done. I see it good option, not reinvent wheel. A raspberry pi is $25. and its a fully fledged computer running on archlinux, you connect your chain of Bitburners to the USB port, and cgminer on the PI does the work for you. Where would cgminer be running in your option? I definetly see it as an option, just not a necessary one for me at all. Especially, when he starts shipping, the difficulty will be way up, and second generation chips would already be taking orders. Keep it simple! Driksson: Raspberry pi is 25$ only for A model without ethernet. 45$ is with delivery. Delivery will be split between 125 raspies but still. If you are answering message-read it first(about cgminer porting to one master plate with ethernet) Eros: If you want to 11 000 Gh then use BitFury device, electricity company will thank you. Also i am sure that if you will order 40000 avalon chips and pay to burnin $200000 plus delivery then you will get on your plate everything you want. |
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bitcoiner49er
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July 15, 2013, 01:41:41 PM |
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I have 40 chips ordered, so there will only be 2 Bitburner XX for me.
A watercooling setup would be a very small one, seems like this doesnt make sense.
Will I be able to cool them by air well enough for OC or is watercooling required then?
Any idea yet?
These are only $110 and you should be able to fit 3 boards on it. Simple solution for those with only a few boards. |
Homo doctus is se semper divitias habet
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iikun
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July 15, 2013, 03:53:58 PM |
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I have 40 chips ordered, so there will only be 2 Bitburner XX for me.
A watercooling setup would be a very small one, seems like this doesnt make sense.
Will I be able to cool them by air well enough for OC or is watercooling required then?
Any idea yet?
These are only $110 and you should be able to fit 3 boards on it. Simple solution for those with only a few boards. Looks like a good, simple solution. I only have 4 boards myself so I'm def. after something like this as well. |
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bitcoiner49er
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July 15, 2013, 04:33:07 PM |
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I have 40 chips ordered, so there will only be 2 Bitburner XX for me.
A watercooling setup would be a very small one, seems like this doesnt make sense.
Will I be able to cool them by air well enough for OC or is watercooling required then?
Any idea yet?
These are only $110 and you should be able to fit 3 boards on it. Simple solution for those with only a few boards. Looks like a good, simple solution. I only have 4 boards myself so I'm def. after something like this as well. They make longer versions as well. Don't know what the best price per inch/mm is though. |
Homo doctus is se semper divitias habet
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nemercry
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Vice versa is not a meal.
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July 15, 2013, 04:34:09 PM
Last edit: July 15, 2013, 05:44:49 PM by nemercry |
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Im do some planning on how to arrange my cooling and i need some further details.
Could you tell me the exact dimensions of the Product itself and the size of the aluminium heatsink ?
Aslo: Which connector can i use to connect each board ? How long can this connector be ?
I would probably need a cable length of 20 - 40 cm depending on how the boards are stored.
btw: are there any news burnin about the watercooled device bitburner : ) ?
Please tell us its fucking unbelievable awesome and can be extremely overclocked : }!
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guitar82
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July 15, 2013, 07:25:51 PM |
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I see that you are shipping with DHL. I am trying to calculate the shipping cost to the US. I entered about 4 Kg for my 7 or eight boards and parts to the USA. The total was around $420 USD. I was looking at the DHL import express service.
I am assuming you will have setup a bulk discount rate with DHL. What type of shipping cost and time do you anticipate? some people have claimed their regular mail service can be 2-4 weeks shipping time, which would kill potential profits.
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dani
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July 15, 2013, 07:28:39 PM |
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Are you going to use DHL Express within germany the same day the unit gets assembled? maybe overnight express? Otherwise I'm tempted to take a trip of 1300km..
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Hai
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SebastianJu
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July 15, 2013, 08:22:19 PM |
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How do you come to $420? Insurance of some kind? Check out this website: http://www.posttip.de/ Its for shipment from germany to other countries and to calculate the options available. |
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