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Author Topic: [ANN][HLM] HELIUM - PRE NOTICE  (Read 128331 times)
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chrysophylax
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March 26, 2017, 04:04:09 PM
 #161

solo mining / pool mining always existed - and even when i was mining in a private pool - no one wanted to believe it was possible ... but there you have it ...

Pool mining with spread-x11 is 100% possible.  Ocminer could fire up a SPR mining pool with his eyes close in under 30 minutes flat, guaranteed.  Spread-x11 doesn't prevent pool mining, it more accurately could be described as heavily discouraging public pool mining because if a nefarious miner finds a block, he can keep the whole thing for himself rather than sharing it with the pool.  If it is a private pool where the pool operator trusts all those who are mining on it?  No problem.  Hell, get creative enough and I can imagine ways in which a public pool could function. Require miners to deposit a certain amount of collateral before the pool will begin accepting their hashes or something.  The only reason an ambitious pool operator hasn't done something like this yet is because SPR has never had a high enough marketcap to offer a sufficient economic incentive.

Spread-x11 is, to put it bluntly, trash.  A novelty born in a time when the big "threat" to Bitcoin was the centralization of mining.  A misguided (and to put it bluntly again, lazy) attempt at creating a coin that discourages centralization.

Let's do a little thought experiment.  Imagine if Bitcoin could not be pool mined for some reason.  Solo mining only.  At the current hashrate, an Antminer T9 should find a block about once every 5 years!!  Might as well go buy a lottery ticket instead.  Small time at-home hobby miners with one Antminer in their computer room or a dozen of them in their garage do not exist in this world.  The overall hashrate and security of Bitcoin is much lower in this world.  The only miners that can compete are giant, warehouse scale industrial mining farms.  

Preventing pool mining prevents centralization of the hashrate at said pools, at the cost of encouraging the centralization of hashrate in the hands of a small number of individual entities!

Pool mining is not the enemy of decentralization.  Pool mining increases decentralization by democratizing the blockchain.

Please coins101, do not hobble HLM with spread-x11.

thats not what i was mentioning ...

i was actually saying that at the time when community AND dev were saying NO POOLS - i was mining with a pool AND optimized miner ...

i didnt say much in the beginning - but when i did - no one believed me ... which was great because i had the private pool all to myself and a few others that knew about it ... that was it  ...

nowadays - you make it sound like it was just a known fact that pools existed for it all the time ... it didnt ... there was a NO POOLS connection with spreadcoin - and in fact the spreadx11 algo itself ... we killed that literally weeks into the release of the algo - not months ...

so now i dont say too much when it comes to things as such - especially optimized miners ... we just let lips flap and tongues wag so as to not get into these sorts of conversations down the track ... no offence - honestly ... and also why i personally argue to no avail with 'devs' like sp and his 'super-modded' miners ... he hasnt even caught up with our miners hashrates for spreadcoin ... and he is STILL selling that damned miner that he tweaks occasionally and gets more btc for ... now he has started on nexus - two months after we had already smashed the hell out of the hashrates for our miner also ...

which again - why we keep quiet about a lot of this ... we are 7steps ahead ... and we like it that way ...

anyway - point is - i agree with the whole pool mining system for a few reasons ... not least because i started mining when i first started crypto - but also because i built a farm ( thefarm - which looks like its got problems right now - but just for the sake of this conversation ) - shred more blocks with many miners - helped the network and blockchain by mining not only at one pool - but many ...

if the algo used is an algo that is readily available to have a pool built around it - then the whole decentralization concept works very very well ... especially with highly optimized miners ( more hash for the same equipment ) ...

so we are agreeing on many points here - and im actually surprised that ( even though i had brought the algo issue up a LONG time ago with spread - AND - no one listened or ignored me altogether ) you bring this up now with such fervor ... i like a lot Smiley ...

an algo that works - is easily distributed - easily replicated - and can be build on ( stratum / pools ) SHOULD be the type of algo that is used in helium ...

thats the main reason we are designing ( actually currently testing ) a new algo for granite as we speak ... one that is difficult to mine - but only on the cpu / cards mining - is NOT difficult to replicate / distribute - is not difficult to build upon ( stratum / pools ) ...

nice stuff ...

im with sockpuppet on this - dont hobble the coin with spreadx11 ...

#crysx

grn - Gfz2cXMkhMZYWSFvLEMnM8bXk7X5Mtq2J2 . exchange - https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange/?market=GRN_BTC . cwi thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1563601 . email - crysx@gnxs.com .
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March 26, 2017, 05:08:09 PM
 #162

i was actually saying that at the time when community AND dev were saying NO POOLS - i was mining with a pool AND optimized miner ...

i didnt say much in the beginning - but when i did - no one believed me ... which was great because i had the private pool all to myself and a few others that knew about it ... that was it  ...

nowadays - you make it sound like it was just a known fact that pools existed for it all the time ... it didnt ... there was a NO POOLS connection with spreadcoin -

I didn't mean to suggest it has been a known fact since the beginning that SPR pools were possible.  I am new around here.  I paid attention to SPR for like a week when it first launched, then forgot it existed.  I would have no clue it was still alive if the HLM thread hadn't caught my attention.

I'm saying that in early March after I found out about HLM, I decided to look into SPR a bit and found this description of spread-x11 on it's ANN

SpreadX11 is different from plain X11 by introducing a sophisticated pool prevention mechanism.

With SpreadX11 every block header contains additional information (MinerSignature and hashWholeBlock).
With the help of this information the protocol ensures that the miner of a new block is always also the first one to know the content of the whole block
and the private key to spend the coinbase transaction. (contrary to pool mining where the pool operator is the first one to know those things)

So when a miner finds a block, he must himself sign and transmit the block to the network (like solo mining), instead of having a pool handle this for him.

This effectively prevents pools by making their rules non-enforceable,
since any miner in any assumed pool can always just steal the block reward
instead of following the rules set up by the pool.


After reading this, my first thought was, "Well, it doesn't sound like this prevents pool mining at all.  Simply shifts the burden of trust from the pool operator to the miners."

So even without you publicly confirming the fact, I already knew SPR could still technically be pool mined.

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March 26, 2017, 07:45:49 PM
 #163

...
Please coins101, do not hobble HLM with spread-x11.

It's not on the agenda for the launch. Things might change in the future, but it will create some headaches at the start.

We're getting some feedback and input from very respected miner developers on options.

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March 27, 2017, 10:08:07 AM
 #164

i was actually saying that at the time when community AND dev were saying NO POOLS - i was mining with a pool AND optimized miner ...

i didnt say much in the beginning - but when i did - no one believed me ... which was great because i had the private pool all to myself and a few others that knew about it ... that was it  ...

nowadays - you make it sound like it was just a known fact that pools existed for it all the time ... it didnt ... there was a NO POOLS connection with spreadcoin -

I didn't mean to suggest it has been a known fact since the beginning that SPR pools were possible.  I am new around here.  I paid attention to SPR for like a week when it first launched, then forgot it existed.  I would have no clue it was still alive if the HLM thread hadn't caught my attention.

I'm saying that in early March after I found out about HLM, I decided to look into SPR a bit and found this description of spread-x11 on it's ANN

SpreadX11 is different from plain X11 by introducing a sophisticated pool prevention mechanism.

With SpreadX11 every block header contains additional information (MinerSignature and hashWholeBlock).
With the help of this information the protocol ensures that the miner of a new block is always also the first one to know the content of the whole block
and the private key to spend the coinbase transaction. (contrary to pool mining where the pool operator is the first one to know those things)

So when a miner finds a block, he must himself sign and transmit the block to the network (like solo mining), instead of having a pool handle this for him.

This effectively prevents pools by making their rules non-enforceable,
since any miner in any assumed pool can always just steal the block reward
instead of following the rules set up by the pool.


After reading this, my first thought was, "Well, it doesn't sound like this prevents pool mining at all.  Simply shifts the burden of trust from the pool operator to the miners."

So even without you publicly confirming the fact, I already knew SPR could still technically be pool mined.

indeed ...

well - there are other priorities obviously - but for those that mine - it would be a debate to have ...

#crysx

grn - Gfz2cXMkhMZYWSFvLEMnM8bXk7X5Mtq2J2 . exchange - https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange/?market=GRN_BTC . cwi thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1563601 . email - crysx@gnxs.com .
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March 27, 2017, 10:11:25 AM
 #165

...
Please coins101, do not hobble HLM with spread-x11.

It's not on the agenda for the launch. Things might change in the future, but it will create some headaches at the start.

We're getting some feedback and input from very respected miner developers on options.

nice ...

i hope wolf and tpruvot are two of those very respected miner devs ( among other like tsiv - klaust - icantnamethemallhere ) ...

my advice is leave sp out of it - or there will be issues when he gets his mits on it ...

just my 7btc worth ...

#crysx

grn - Gfz2cXMkhMZYWSFvLEMnM8bXk7X5Mtq2J2 . exchange - https://www.cryptopia.co.nz/Exchange/?market=GRN_BTC . cwi thread - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1563601 . email - crysx@gnxs.com .
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March 27, 2017, 10:19:44 AM
 #166

Why not Sulfur Hexafluoride instead of Helium ? Being a Vader is better than a tiny Tim.
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March 27, 2017, 10:47:49 AM
 #167

cannot waiting helium bounty campaign information sir

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March 27, 2017, 11:05:44 AM
 #168

Do you have a relese date sir?
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March 27, 2017, 05:47:28 PM
 #169

Happy Monday to everyone!


The Helium Development team would like to open up our slack channel to the public. If you are interested in joining the Helium project, learn more about what we are creating or just want to hang out and chat with some very cool people, here is your chance:



https://heliumslack.herokuapp.com/



There is a much more conversation happening in our slack channel as well as great knowledge being shared. Looking forward to seeing you all in there and creating some History together!



- Jason

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March 28, 2017, 01:26:14 PM
 #170

Do you have a relese date sir?


The launch date for Helium will be announced soon. To get the most up to date information on the project, please feel free to join our open Slack channel (posted directly above this post).





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March 29, 2017, 02:39:17 AM
 #171

Do you have a relese date sir?


The launch date for Helium will be announced soon. To get the most up to date information on the project, please feel free to join our open Slack channel (posted directly above this post).







Very Excited for this project! The management team is looking solid here. Check out the Slack channel for more information.

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March 29, 2017, 02:22:15 PM
 #172

Do you have a relese date sir?


The launch date for Helium will be announced soon. To get the most up to date information on the project, please feel free to join our open Slack channel (posted directly above this post).



Would be terrific if we could sign up for an email notification of launch somewhere. Some of us need push notifications to be reminded because we can't keep track of all our Slack channels. Smiley
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March 29, 2017, 02:59:35 PM
 #173

Do you have a relese date sir?


The launch date for Helium will be announced soon. To get the most up to date information on the project, please feel free to join our open Slack channel (posted directly above this post).



Would be terrific if we could sign up for an email notification of launch somewhere. Some of us need push notifications to be reminded because we can't keep track of all our Slack channels. Smiley


Your suggestion is noted. Once I have the new website up and functioning at HeliumPay.com I will look into getting something setup there like this.




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March 29, 2017, 04:47:34 PM
 #174

Interesting project, I love the idea of Helium.
Will keep an eye on this project.
Good luck Wink
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March 29, 2017, 04:56:41 PM
 #175

Happy Monday to everyone!


The Helium Development team would like to open up our slack channel to the public. If you are interested in joining the Helium project, learn more about what we are creating or just want to hang out and chat with some very cool people, here is your chance:



https://heliumslack.herokuapp.com/



There is a much more conversation happening in our slack channel as well as great knowledge being shared. Looking forward to seeing you all in there and creating some History together!



- Jason

Yeah I want to join and see further development.
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March 29, 2017, 06:06:24 PM
 #176

Looking forward to Helium and the many possibilities it brings along for us in the blockchain ecosystem.
It's exciting to be a part of the slack and i like to invite as many people to join us there.
Here is the link:

https://heliumslack.herokuapp.com/

Let us connect and build something worthwhile together.

See you there!

-RA
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March 30, 2017, 04:03:00 PM
 #177

Karmashark raised a good point about collateral requirements.

Lets open up a discussion on masternode collateral. Here are some options:



We do need to seek views as people will have opinions on affordability of masternodes and distribution around early investors. We will have some limits as to what we can do to please everyone, but lets give it a go.

From my perspective, 10,000 HLM generates too few servers. We'll be looking to run millions of user accounts so we have to take into account the numbers of severs we can run on the network to spread and carry the load.

We also need to take into account 5%-20% of nodes going down at any one point due to DDoS attacks; day to day redundancy; and network performance as experienced by users.

250 HLM is towards the range we're interested in, but we won't need that level of capacity for a decade or more, so it creates a sybil risk until the price of HLM rises.

800 HLM to 1,250 HLM for collateral is the range that gives a good compromise between economic barrier to sybil attacks and providing sufficient room for supporting ordinary payments users on the network.

Then we need to factor the current and near future coin supply. This has an impact on the choices we make now and in the near future.



We can change the rules down the road, but that would disrupt business as usual for everyone running masternodes. Running a 24/7 payments network for tens of millions of users means we'll have to look at migrate+upgrade (really hard) vs upgrade only if we ever need to switch the protocol while trying to meet end user SLAs.

We will have 2 or 3 hard forks between launch and the end of 2018. We won't be anywhere near capacity by the end of 2018, so we can come back to this issue in 2018 when we start planning for something that will last for 10-20 years in terms of the collateral vs. server capacity.

Bump for some new faces.

We're due to make a decision on this pretty soon.

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April 01, 2017, 01:52:47 PM
 #178

Karmashark raised a good point about collateral requirements.

Lets open up a discussion on masternode collateral. Here are some options:



We do need to seek views as people will have opinions on affordability of masternodes and distribution around early investors. We will have some limits as to what we can do to please everyone, but lets give it a go.

From my perspective, 10,000 HLM generates too few servers. We'll be looking to run millions of user accounts so we have to take into account the numbers of severs we can run on the network to spread and carry the load.

We also need to take into account 5%-20% of nodes going down at any one point due to DDoS attacks; day to day redundancy; and network performance as experienced by users.

250 HLM is towards the range we're interested in, but we won't need that level of capacity for a decade or more, so it creates a sybil risk until the price of HLM rises.

800 HLM to 1,250 HLM for collateral is the range that gives a good compromise between economic barrier to sybil attacks and providing sufficient room for supporting ordinary payments users on the network.

Then we need to factor the current and near future coin supply. This has an impact on the choices we make now and in the near future.



We can change the rules down the road, but that would disrupt business as usual for everyone running masternodes. Running a 24/7 payments network for tens of millions of users means we'll have to look at migrate+upgrade (really hard) vs upgrade only if we ever need to switch the protocol while trying to meet end user SLAs.

We will have 2 or 3 hard forks between launch and the end of 2018. We won't be anywhere near capacity by the end of 2018, so we can come back to this issue in 2018 when we start planning for something that will last for 10-20 years in terms of the collateral vs. server capacity.

Bump for some new faces.

We're due to make a decision on this pretty soon.


Last call on the topic of collateral count for the Masternodes. If you have an opinion on this now is the time to make your voice heard as we will be finalizing this next week.

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blocks.explorer
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April 01, 2017, 01:55:39 PM
 #179

What's this about? Will there be an ICO?
KarmaShark
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Co-founder - Helium


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April 01, 2017, 02:22:02 PM
 #180

What's this about? Will there be an ICO?

Helium will not be conducting an ICO. Rather, there is a coin distribution happening. Helium will be given out to holders of Spreadcoin on a well advertised date in the near future, using a blockchain snapshot. Information on this is in the OP however launch details will be made public soon.

In the meantime, if you want to keep up to date and see the makings of a new payments system and blockchain platform come to life, join us in the Helium slack channel:


https://heliumslack.herokuapp.com/





Hope to see you there,



Jason

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