@RogerVer lets make a deal. At least 60k, my BTU for your BTC.

[msin]

Please let me know if you hear anything.

It's a far better bet to bet that such a thing will not arise.

Sure, I'm not counting on it, but also won't dismiss a potential once in a lifetime chance to double my BTC holdings.

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[traincarswreck]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18207263#msg18207263
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206954#msg18206954
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206783#msg18206783
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206438#msg18206438
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18202772#msg18202772
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203026#msg18203026
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203250#msg18203250
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203397#msg18203397

I missed one.  Nonetheless here are post after post of carlton banks repeating and copy/pasting the same question over and over.  I kept explaining I don't agree with the premise so I cannot properly address the question.  But Carlton doesn't understand what a premise is.  He doesn't know what the word means and so he keep repeating the question.

Carlton is dumb and ignorant.  Not educated.  We need to keep the discussion to include people that at least have hope of contributing or gaining from it.

Carlton is a shitdiot.

Also I had a post deleted in that thread because it was apparently a derail when I simply confirmed that a poster had said something intelligent.  Who the fuck is the mod that deleted my post and ignored this fucking retard? Who is the idiot mod?

[andyatcrux]

traincarswreck, there are several threads here where people are calling him out on the scaling proposals but this isn't one of them. I get that you feel strongly about this issue, and this "deal" thread my seem like a diversion and waste of time. Understandable.

Still, this thread has been linked in a blog article that has been tweeted all over the place.

So yeah, Roger can post here and on Youtube and then say "nah, nevermind" but for the many people who are not following the technical debate, any bit of light that can be shed on the character of the major players could serve them in deciding where they stand.

So maybe it is just fluff but I'll take accountability where I can get it at this point.

[Ayers]

i can't understand what is the deal about? what are they betting to? is he just wanting 60k BTC for 60k BU? BU and BTC will end with the same value right if a fork happen so wha'ts the point of this betting from roger?

[traincarswreck]

traincarswreck, there are several threads here where people are calling him out on the scaling proposals but this isn't one of them. I get that you feel strongly about this issue, and this "deal" thread my seem like a diversion and waste of time. Understandable.

Still, this thread has been linked in a blog article that has been tweeted all over the place.

So yeah, Roger can post here and on Youtube and then say "nah, nevermind" but for the many people who are not following the technical debate, any bit of light that can be shed on the character of the major players could serve them in deciding where they stand.

So maybe it is just fluff but I'll take accountability where I can get it at this point.

Roger has done nothing but lie and extrapolate on a political agenda that is not founded in any founded economic theory whatsoever.

I present 20 years of works on the subject of ramifications of the advent of an e-currency with a stably issued supply by probably the smartest man that ever existed.

Nothing here in regard to this bet is going to change anyone's opinion.  Roger wants control of bitcoin, and he'll take it even if its only such control that can create political tension that the media will pick up on.

That each of you don't constantly call him out for having an unfounded argument is simply a testament that none of you understand the macro economic implications of bitcoin or the purpose and nature of money itself.

[jonald_fyookball]

 Ver is selling the idea that raising bitcoin's tps adds value to the network, and EVERYONE here is an idiot for not calling him out on the stupidity of that proposition.  Its a tacit assumption that has no foundation in economic theory.

Even core (through segwit+LN) wants more tps.  

I would kindly suggest that out of common courtesy, don't pollute the thread.  
Anyone who wants to debate these ideas with you should see your other 50 page thread on that.  

[traincarswreck]

Even core (through segwit+LN) wants more tps.  

I would kindly suggest that out of common courtesy, don't pollute the thread.  
Anyone who wants to debate these ideas with you should see your other 50 page thread on that.  

Were you the one that had the mod delete my post.  I can assure everyone here that it will be carton that pollutes this thread.  I even quoted 8 posts where they spammed and the mods did absolutely nothing (there is a ninth one too!).  8 times just obnoxiously copy pasting the same paragraph simply because they don't understand what a premise is.

And here you are sticking up for them.  Just like you polluted that thread.  What are you going to offer in this thread?  

Neither of you have a CLUE what you are talking about, and how quickly you turned the discussion to me.

this thread is about how ver pretended he will accept this bet, a bunch of people are implying we can hold him to it, and a very small minority have already seen through his ridiculous game (probably including OP).

VER IS A BLUFF!!!! and jonald_fyookball is a moron with nothing intelligent to say.

[unamis76]

OP, BTU doesn't exist. It's nothing. But I guess that if you indeed own that many coins you know better than me where to put your money

[traincarswreck]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18207263#msg18207263
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206954#msg18206954
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206783#msg18206783
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206438#msg18206438
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18202772#msg18202772
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203026#msg18203026
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203250#msg18203250
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203397#msg18203397

I missed one.  Nonetheless here are post after post of carlton banks repeating and copy/pasting the same question over and over.  I kept explaining I don't agree with the premise so I cannot properly address the question.  But Carlton doesn't understand what a premise is.  He doesn't know what the word means and so he keep repeating the question.

Carlton is dumb and ignorant.  Not educated.  We need to keep the discussion to include people that at least have hope of contributing or gaining from it.

Carlton is a shitdiot.

Also I had a post deleted in that thread because it was apparently a derail when I simply confirmed that a poster had said something intelligent.  Who the fuck is the mod that deleted my post and ignored this fucking retard? Who is the idiot mod?

Where the FUCK are the mods and why is he allowed to do this and I can't make a simple fucking post confirming that someone said something intelligent???

[K128kevin2]

i can't understand what is the deal about? what are they betting to? is he just wanting 60k BTC for 60k BU? BU and BTC will end with the same value right if a fork happen so wha'ts the point of this betting from roger?

If Bitcoin Unlimited forks, it will be on a separate chain to people running other nodes that will classify the bigger blocks as invalid. Some exchanges say that they will list them as separate coins.
OP is betting that BU coins are going to be worth less than regular Bitcoins so in the event of a fork he wants to swap his coins on the BU chain for more coins on the main chain, effectively doubling then number of coins he owns. Sorry if that was a pretty terrible explanation, maybe somebody else can pitch in if you still don't understand it.

And why do you think that BU coins are going to end with the same value?

[notthematrix]

i can't understand what is the deal about? what are they betting to? is he just wanting 60k BTC for 60k BU? BU and BTC will end with the same value right if a fork happen so wha'ts the point of this betting from roger?

If Bitcoin Unlimited forks, it will be on a separate chain to people running other nodes that will classify the bigger blocks as invalid. Some exchanges say that they will list them as separate coins.
OP is betting that BU coins are going to be worth less than regular Bitcoins so in the event of a fork he wants to swap his coins on the BU chain for more coins on the main chain, effectively doubling then number of coins he owns. Sorry if that was a pretty terrible explanation, maybe somebody else can pitch in if you still don't understand it.

And why do you think that BU coins are going to end with the same value?

And more important BU looks imcompetent in building its software

the technical incompetency of #BitcoinUnlimited has made me lose confidence in their code
https://twitter.com/CharlieShrem/status/844553701746446339

[traincarswreck]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18207263#msg18207263
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206954#msg18206954
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206783#msg18206783
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18206438#msg18206438
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18202772#msg18202772
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203026#msg18203026
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203250#msg18203250
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1809999.msg18203397#msg18203397

I missed one.  Nonetheless here are post after post of carlton banks repeating and copy/pasting the same question over and over.  I kept explaining I don't agree with the premise so I cannot properly address the question.  But Carlton doesn't understand what a premise is.  He doesn't know what the word means and so he keep repeating the question.

Carlton is dumb and ignorant.  Not educated.  We need to keep the discussion to include people that at least have hope of contributing or gaining from it.

Carlton is a shitdiot.

Also I had a post deleted in that thread because it was apparently a derail when I simply confirmed that a poster had said something intelligent.  Who the fuck is the mod that deleted my post and ignored this fucking retard? Who is the idiot mod?

Where the FUCK are the mods and why is he allowed to do this and I can't make a simple fucking post confirming that someone said something intelligent???

No, for real though, why the fuck is that idiot carton banks allowed to sully a thread based on a rational founded and significant argument and I am not allowed to simply confirm someone said something intelligent? 

Someone is putting up 60k btc betting Ver is an idiot, do we really think Ver would a bet that is based on him not being an idiot? 

[jonald_fyookball]

 No, for real though, why the fuck is that idiot carton banks allowed to sully a thread based 

I put him on ignore a while ago. 

[dooglus]

I think the idea is that they would want to lock the coins in place before any fork happens. Your plan seems like it requires the fork to have already happened.

This is not possible without a replay protection, which BU refuses to include

It is possible to lock your coins in escrow before the fork. It isn't possible to do an atomic swap between the Bitcoin chain and an altcoin chain that doesn't exist yet.

From what I understand this wouldn't double his stash, lol.

After that happens Loaded offered him to trade up to 130k Unlimited BTC for Core BTC. So Roger would have double the amount of Unlimited BTC and Loaded would have double the amount of Core BTC.

I think the point was that adding 130k to Roger's stash wouldn't double it. In the same was that adding 130 to 400 doesn't double it.

Nobody really knows how many coins Roger has left, but there are rumors that it's around half a million.

[Peter R]

...

Here's my attempt at making the terms of my bet with RHavar unambiguous:

1. A "network upgrade event" is defined to have occurred if the blockchain (or one side of the blockchain should a split occur) contains a block larger than 1 MB and at least 72 blocks have been built on top of it.  These blocks must be built using the current PoW algorithm and with no reset or fork-based reduction in the difficulty.

2. Conditions where RHavar wins the bet:

   - A "network upgrade event" occurs, resulting in a blockchain split, and at least 2100 blocks are built on the "small block" side of the split (i.e, the blockchain branch that contains no blocks larger than 1 MB) within 4 months (120 days) of the splitting point.  The blocks must be built using the current PoW algorithm and with no reset or fork-based reduction in the difficulty.
  
3.  Conditions where Peter R wins the bet:

   - A "network upgrade event" occurs and the blockchain contains at least one block larger than 1 MB and no blockchain split occurs.
   - A "network upgrade event" occurs and the blockchain contains at least one block larger than 1 MB and 2100 full-difficulty regular-PoW blocks are not built on the small-block chain within the 120 day window.
   - Should the minority chain become unusable for whatever reason prior to reaching 2100 regular-PoW/full-difficulty blocks, thereby requiring a change in PoW or a reset or reduction in difficulty in order to keep it alive, then Peter R wins the bet provided the big-block side of the blockchain contains a block larger than 1 MB.    

4. Conditions for a draw (Peter R and RHavar receive their wagers back)

   - No "network upgrade event" occurs between now and 31 December 2017.  

[Loaded]

From my perspective at least, this is not a bet, it's a business transaction. My motivations are 90% profit and 10% because I do not foresee BU as it exists today succeeding with the lack of code review and still unsolved EC divergence. Nothing prevents a miner from switching to the Core chain and orphaning the entire BU chain if it becomes profitable to do so.

As for big vs small, I supported 2MB last year when there was no working implementation of LN. Today SegWit + LN appears to be ready to go. I believe that the BU miners are not looking at the bigger picture. On chain fees can continue to rise even while a large number of transactions move to LN. There is no issue paying a $10 fee to open a reusable channel, while the same fee for a single transaction is extreme. SW already offers 2MB, the only difference seems to be where the signatures are stored.

[Carlton Banks]

 No, for real though, why the fuck is that idiot carton banks allowed to sully a thread based 

I put him on ignore a while ago. 

Lol, you two are obsessed with me. Why not refute what I say instead of trolling (you can't)

[msin]

From my perspective at least, this is not a bet, it's a business transaction. My motivations are 90% profit and 10% because I do not foresee BU as it exists today succeeding with the lack of code review and still unsolved EC divergence. Nothing prevents a miner from switching to the Core chain and orphaning the entire BU chain if it becomes profitable to do so.

As for big vs small, I supported 2MB last year when there was no working implementation of LN. Today SegWit + LN appears to be ready to go. I believe that the BU miners are not looking at the bigger picture. On chain fees can continue to rise even while a large number of transactions move to LN. There is no issue paying a $10 fee to open a reusable channel, while the same fee for a single transaction is extreme. SW already offers 2MB, the only difference seems to be where the signatures are stored.

My sentiments exactly and why I'm willing to make a similar business transaction with Roger via a pool if available.

[QuestionAuthority]

From my perspective at least, this is not a bet, it's a business transaction. My motivations are 90% profit and 10% because I do not foresee BU as it exists today succeeding with the lack of code review and still unsolved EC divergence. Nothing prevents a miner from switching to the Core chain and orphaning the entire BU chain if it becomes profitable to do so.

As for big vs small, I supported 2MB last year when there was no working implementation of LN. Today SegWit + LN appears to be ready to go. I believe that the BU miners are not looking at the bigger picture. On chain fees can continue to rise even while a large number of transactions move to LN. There is no issue paying a $10 fee to open a reusable channel, while the same fee for a single transaction is extreme. SW already offers 2MB, the only difference seems to be where the signatures are stored.

Let me ask you a question just to satisfy my own curiosity and discover the reason for your recent "business transaction" proposition to Ver. You are "loaded". I assume you live in a beautiful home with all the modern appointments. Surely you must have fine automobiles at your disposal and take worldwide vacations with the same frequency that other people change their underwear. In essence, you want for nothing. Your stake in the "business transaction" you're proposing is worth upwards of $60 million. With that kind of money, why would you not simply cash out, retire, and enjoy everything the world has to offer? Instead, you leverage your millions to prove a point? I don't get it.

[viajero]

I'd like to join and swap my future BTU for BTC. I have way less than loaded but still a significant amount. I can provide further proof in private.

I'd like a clarification from MemoryDealers if he is willing to accept further offers.