CryptoKingdom Uncensored

[KLONE]

If you are guys did this, I would be a huge contributer to the tune of many tens of thousands of Aeon no matter what.  
  
Super optionally, As well, I have an upcoming (fairly distributed with me having no advantage) Counterparty asset coming out soon.  If you were willing to incorporate these custom magical tokens into the game, I would be happy to airdrop a significant amount of the base token into the hands of players.  It's going to be basically a retro fantasy version of the rarepepedirectory.com cards.

This could be a game saving boost for CK, Aeon is a truly great coin, the synergies from a collaboration would be awesome, amazing offer too @AP airdropping tokens from your card token game, really appreciated !!

[CrazyLoaf]

If you are guys did this, I would be a huge contributer to the tune of many tens of thousands of Aeon no matter what.  
  
Super optionally, As well, I have an upcoming (fairly distributed with me having no advantage) Counterparty asset coming out soon.  If you were willing to incorporate these custom magical tokens into the game, I would be happy to airdrop a significant amount of the base token into the hands of players.  It's going to be basically a retro fantasy version of the rarepepedirectory.com cards.

Here's a couple of sample cards from Series One.  In series two we allow users to submit their own cards.  Actual in game effects of these tokens would be left up to the game programmers as it is outside my area of expertise.  But a relaunch of CK for Aeon with some secondary layer custom cryptographic assets (that can't be taken away or fall in value even in the worst cases) would be awesome.  This might be a pipe dream though, as it would require BOTH Aeon integration and reading signed tx from Counterparty assets (to assure that the player actually owned an asset).  One day would be amazing to do this natively on Aeon, but at the moment second layers with custom assets only exist on the bitcoin blockchain.  

 


 

This is awesome! I've long been in favor of doing something with AEON!

Actually, let me talk briefly about my initial reasons for joining CK as they may be relevant to AEON. Then I'll share some ideas on how AEON/CK intergation could work.

Personal CK Involvment

Long Game History, Topic Popularity, & Appeal

I had seen posts about CK for years since 2014. As a matter of fact, many of its threads still rank highly in views on BTCTalk. For example, the original (now locked) topic "Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City)" is still the 2nd most viewed thread of all time in "Altcoin Discussion" at 629k views!

XMR had just made its initial jump from $1 to $10. My thesis was that a more advanced CK (which Risto had continually promised was being developed) could be a good pathway to get more people interested in crypto. I also checked in on the game and it was a far cry from the Google Docs and spreadsheets I had seen earlier as the website format was more understandable to users. Also, in terms of themeing, a "medieval sim" had broad appeal, which I think you see the same thing in "Encrypted Charms".

XMR-Based Ecosystem & Dividends

For those already involved in crypto/XMR, I thought the game could be a good long-term dividend style investment opportunity that kept the funds in the XMR ecosystem. This is probably the category I fit in, and I took a portion of my XMR and invested in CK.

Increased Anonymity Set

Finally, with more on-blockchain transactions, the game could help increase the transaction set to help with XMR anonymity. Think if you could get something like the "World of Warcraft" auction house doing on-blockchain transactions for a privacy-focused currency like Monero/Aeon: that is a lot of "noise" to help feed RingCT!

Overall, these 3 main aspects remain in the case of AEON vs XMR integration (1) appeal to non-crypto users, (2) crypto users keeping more funds in the AEON ecosystem, and (3) larger transaction set for RingCT transactions.

AEON/CK Integration

Historic "Proof of Burn" & Game Refresh

Now, on to the present topic: I'm 100% in favor of pursuing a stronger AEON integration. I think the game needs a clean relaunch back to the middle ages with a clearing/refresh of many in-game items, but keeping some of the core items such as land/gold/etc. as many of these have a strong "proof of burn" history when it comes to value.

Many plots of land in the game went for thousands of XMR in the past, and there are many players who invested 1k, 10k, or even more XMR into the game. Just ask Karl Hungus who put over 30k XMR into the game: over 10 million USD at current prices!

I think the card integration is a great idea and could be directly used in gameplay. Maybe each plot of land can have its own card? Not saying there has to be art assets for everything, but a blockchain-based card? Sure! Beyond that, just the overall style of the cards is the sort of design that I feel CK should emulate.

Let me talk a little bit about a "wish list" sort of scenario, and maybe we can as a community discuss the tech behind implementing something like this.

Blockchain-Based User/"House" Cards

For CK, we need as much on-blockchain integration as possible. In an simple case, perhaps every user is issued a unique blockchain-based card (for example, I would have "House Loaf"). This can be bought or sold at will, say if the user wants to enter the game without starting from scratch or leave the game entirely without hiring an investment manager or someone else to play their account/assets. This card would keep track of all CK-based assets that House owns. In a simple case, checkpointing several times daily, but in an ideal case, constantly being up-to-date.

In-Game Currency, Masternodes, & Merge-Mining

On the in-game currency and transaction side, a few options here. I think history has shown issues with pure exchange pegging as Risto did in the past (e.g., 1 XMR = 1mil CK game units), but a floating AEON to CK in-game money exchange would be a great option. Or maybe AEON as the in-game currency could actually work; we'd have to discuss it.

Ideally, CK game units (say Crypto Kingdom Gold "CKG") would be blockchain-based as well. I've talked with some people and they made the really good point that while something like "Instant Transactions" in DASH don't make a lot of sense for a real-world currency, they would make a lot of sense for a gameworld. So InstatSend/InstantX technology paired with something like Masternodes or PoS mining to process all in-game transactions would be interesting.  

In a super ideal world, I would like for the current amount of in-game currency to be cloned to a blockchain and then be merge-mineable with AEON. Economics and PoW reward amounts could be discussed, but I have always felt that a strong PoW network helps provide a base value to a cryptocurrency (due to the imputed costs of energy, time, miner experience, etc.).

Thoughts anyone?

[bv68bot]

Many plots of land in the game went for thousands of XMR in the past, and there are many players who invested 1k, 10k, or even more XMR into the game. Just ask Karl Hungus who put over 30k XMR into the game: over 10 million USD at current prices!

Karl Hungus owns ~10% of M, so maybe he still makes his money back when CK moons one day

[Vigens]

Many plots of land in the game went for thousands of XMR in the past, and there are many players who invested 1k, 10k, or even more XMR into the game. Just ask Karl Hungus who put over 30k XMR into the game: over 10 million USD at current prices!

Karl Hungus owns ~10% of M, so maybe he still makes his money back when CK moons one day

Surely it will moon to 30k xmr 

[CrazyLoaf]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1879464.msg23313528#msg23313528

Would recommend everyone taking a look at this post as well. Since I'm in favor of a full relaunch and rethinking of all CK in-game items, I believe it's worth seeing how we can more closely pair with encryptedcharm's card attributes and stats.

For example, card types seem more or less the same as what we have now, with some additional sub classifications (such as "book" being a subgroup of "item"). And many of those sub classifications may be removed in the relaunch.

The elemental classifications (air, water, plant, spirit, earth, metal, and fire) are interesting and this is also an area I feel could be integrated in the game's items. For example, perhaps these elements could be associated with item attributes. Say "air" items help increase "wisdom" and "earth" items increase "health".

5 tiers of item rarity? Weren't we already working through that in simplifying the NPC system? And of course we can still have "uniques" outside of the 5 item tiers for say plots of land, precious works of art, etc. AP/Katie: we already have some silver and gold unicorns in CK that went for hundreds and thousands of XMR that are just dying for cards/tokenization!

I know it's the holidays, but let's start cracking on concepts here! I was very impressed at how the 40k AEON rebase campaign went, and I am sure we can get similar enthusiasm going here!

[tombots]

I still think a fork with a new concept needs to be something completely new. Not CK anymore. Why even use the name CryptoKingdom if there is no King / Kingdom? Why not take a new name and just buy the Agora Market database / setup from CK and then fill it up with new charming items?

CK as a kingdom can then go on with the effort of Speed, our King and others willing to work out the debt thing.

[CrazyLoaf]

I still think a fork with a new concept needs to be something completely new. Not CK anymore. Why even use the name CryptoKingdom if there is no King / Kingdom? Why not take a new name and just buy the Agora Market database / setup from CK and then fill it up with new charming items?

CK as a kingdom can then go on with the effort of Speed, our King and others willing to work out the debt thing.

It's not a new concept. It is still a medieval simulation. It will still be the same CK at its core, and at minimum the maps/lands/properties are being moved over. Most definately CANnabis too! And we have to keep the FOIE gras I'd say!  

Really, I think how the game was structured pre-Ultima deserves a solid look. Yes, some aspects like the NPC consumption and STOne creation need to be automated (rather than worked on in a spreadsheet), but looking back on the thread and game history at the time, it looked like overall it was a "tighter" game design. Once Ultima came online, Risto kept adding modules and items that ultimately had no point as it was easier to do so.

Additionally, there is a lot of crypto history (specifically XMR-based) in CK: just look at all the names of the properties. Like David Latapie's land is still in CK. He had a lot to do with the early founding of XMR and he's unfortunately no longer with us. I think it's worth carrying this sort of lineage forward.

Overall, there is still a kingdom  

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

I have a dev interested in moving the project forward. We played with a million different ideas of how to approach moving forward, and the least complicated solution able to produce results essentially seems to be to 'just do it'. The code is not complicated, setting up the site to use current code and unmodified SQL database (non-reboot) is simple enough I could do it, however he has the time to actually continue to develop the project. He's talented and happy to work for donations. Concerning debts/in-game tokens, we figured best and easiest solution would be to allow private parties to cover the territory of currency conversions. Let people exchange whatever currency they would like for the in game currency. We were thinking to just move forward with it, and respond to community feedback. If a respected member of the community like saddam or generalizethis is requested to have git access and the community thinks that is best, then that happens. If community wants to integrate to on an chain token, add that to the todo list. He doesn't want anyone to have to trust him, isn't particularly comfortable with that really and we shouldn't be either. I know this person IRL and have worked with them on many projects. They are very capable of handling frontends to SQL databases with their eyes closed, and further capable of acheiving the decentralized game some of us seem to be envisioning. I don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes so it would be helpful if anyone 'in the know' could speak specifically as to what, if anything, is going on as far as PJ/Speed/Anyone's development efforts.  I dont understand how so little gets accomplished.... its a freaking frontend to an SQL database..  For me personally I enjoy the game a lot, but if I hadn't built my home in old town back in the day, I'm a bit busier at this point in my life and may not be terribly interested in a reboot from scratch. But, his interest in the project is not contingent on that or my opinion, and though we respect eachothers opinion I would not be "in charge". The idea is to have nobody be in charge. But somebody has to make a move. So if there is any reason to NOT fork the database, throw up a site, have him start interacting with the community to see what they want, please let me know. If everyone thinks it s dog-shit and wants to stay away, no harm done. The idea is that if the community wants, he'll happily use his own creativity if necessary, but main focus is to get the project moving, implement what the community wants, be funded by donations, move towards trustless and modular set-up... and not piss off anyone in the process. He doesn't want to have things devolve into a "I'll pay you to add this!" situation, as that would give donators control in relation to their wealth, but to have the generosity of the community fund his efforts to implement what the community wants.

We'd talked and have been considering this for about a week. I respect AmericanPegasus , this was all thought before they had expressed interest. As far as I can tell, their on chain asset of trading cards will exist with or without CK, and it could absolutely be traded within Agora, just as ALMOST anything else could. I think marketplace activity should be restricated to digital assets so as to avoid potential confusion of being mistaken for certain... other.... marktplaces associated with privacy centric cryptos. The idea is to keep things simple as possible, no crazy algos or massive changes at fork... and that he would be available to work for the community to move the project in whatever direction the community wants it to go.

[CrazyLoaf]

I have a dev interested in moving the project forward. We played with a million different ideas of how to approach moving forward, and the least complicated solution able to produce results essentially seems to be to 'just do it'. The code is not complicated, setting up the site to use current code and unmodified SQL database (non-reboot) is simple enough I could do it, however he has the time to actually continue to develop the project. He's talented and happy to work for donations. Concerning debts/in-game tokens, we figured best and easiest solution would be to allow private parties to cover the territory of currency conversions. Let people exchange whatever currency they would like for the in game currency. We were thinking to just move forward with it, and respond to community feedback. If a respected member of the community like saddam or generalizethis is requested to have git access and the community thinks that is best, then that happens. If community wants to integrate to on an chain token, add that to the todo list. He doesn't want anyone to have to trust him, isn't particularly comfortable with that really and we shouldn't be either. I know this person IRL and have worked with them on many projects. They are very capable of handling frontends to SQL databases with their eyes closed, and further capable of acheiving the decentralized game some of us seem to be envisioning. I don't want to be stepping on anyone's toes so it would be helpful if anyone 'in the know' could speak specifically as to what, if anything, is going on as far as PJ/Speed/Anyone's development efforts.  I dont understand how so little gets accomplished.... its a freaking frontend to an SQL database..  For me personally I enjoy the game a lot, but if I hadn't built my home in old town back in the day, I'm a bit busier at this point in my life and may not be terribly interested in a reboot from scratch. But, his interest in the project is not contingent on that or my opinion, and though we respect eachothers opinion I would not be "in charge". The idea is to have nobody be in charge. But somebody has to make a move. So if there is any reason to NOT fork the database, throw up a site, have him start interacting with the community to see what they want, please let me know. If everyone thinks it s dog-shit and wants to stay away, no harm done. The idea is that if the community wants, he'll happily use his own creativity if necessary, but main focus is to get the project moving, implement what the community wants, be funded by donations, move towards trustless and modular set-up... and not piss off anyone in the process. He doesn't want to have things devolve into a "I'll pay you to add this!" situation, as that would give donators control in relation to their wealth, but to have the generosity of the community fund his efforts to implement what the community wants.

We'd talked and have been considering this for about a week. I respect AmericanPegasus , this was all thought before they had expressed interest. As far as I can tell, their on chain asset of trading cards will exist with or without CK, and it could absolutely be traded within Agora, just as ALMOST anything else could. I think marketplace activity should be restricated to digital assets so as to avoid potential confusion of being mistaken for certain... other.... marktplaces associated with privacy centric cryptos. The idea is to keep things simple as possible, no crazy algos or massive changes at fork... and that he would be available to work for the community to move the project in whatever direction the community wants it to go.

This is good to hear!

Yes, a "just do it" mentality is what the game needs at this stage. Many people were very well compensated for past work and/or paid on retainer and they have ended up not doing anything for the game.

Regarding debts, my thoughts have always been that those were Risto's, not the game's. Rather than make the game "pay off" the astronomical amounts of some claims (millions in my case alone: and that is a small claim!), just take over his portion of the game and utilize it to better the game overall. This is also fair to those who spent a lot of XMR (for example, Karl Hungus) but who did not utilize Risto's depositories. Tokenization and other items we can discuss later.

In regards to PJ/Speed/Etc., the progress is slow to nil as far as I can tell. I would not wait for them. Last time I heard, PJ is still not working on things at all (as usual and has been the case for years). Speed and a dev he found are supposedly spec'ing something out, but how long will that take? Especially when the last bit of development Speed mentioned his dev doing was "changing the dates automatically". Too basic imo.

I think you should start your implementation and then if Speed and his dev want to get involved, they can. I think Speed will be a great asset on the game design side, he just needs a dev who can get things done, which you seem to be bringing to the table. 

"I dont understand how so little gets accomplished.... its a freaking frontend to an SQL database.." 

Same here, and that has been the cause of much of my frustration with CK. I've lost more money elsewhere and even if I hadn't, the XMR value I put in CK is a small portion of my overall crypto portfolio. But what is maddening to me is that something seemingly so basic just doesn't get anything accomplished with it!

In regards to a reboot from scratch, I guess I should be more clear on that. We would keep the land ownership and item ownership as is. We would turn the clock back to the middle ages (we are in the 1600s and it just doesn't make sense tech-wise). For a lot of the items that we can't see a point in, they will be removed and perhaps a "relic points" value be assigned to them to ensure that there is an accounting figure of the prior value. These RP's could be utilized at a later date. I mean we really don't need, for example, 10 different types of spoons if we aren't going to be moving with that level of detail going forward (and if Risto didn't even have a clear idea of why he was doing that).

In regards to AP/KC and EncryptedCharms, I agree and am interested in their project, CK association or not. However, it looked like it was still early enough in development that we could have a closer association and we as a community have long discussed "cards" representing in-game assets. As cards are just database entries anyway to a degree, no reason we can't just have CANnabis cards and FOIE gras cards and the like!

Yes, agree on Agora being for digital items only. No real-world stuff. Overall, I think the reason a lot of us got into CK was the promise of a more exhaustive and detailed virtual world. We got a glimpse of that with countries and the like in CK.

Crazy thought. Think of seeing the CK town map and neighboring lands being color-coded to different "currency" civilizations based on the dominant holders in the area. You join CK and you pick a civilization: BTC, LTC, AEON, BCY, PepeCash, etc. and and then you go out and build your empire!

[CrazyLoaf]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aeon/comments/7mcaat/some_motived_souls_are_rallying_an_effort_to/

"Some motived souls are rallying an effort to relaunch CryptoKingdom in Aeon. Possible Encrypted Charms integration is flirted with."

KatieCharm/AP has shared the potential CK/AEON initiative on Reddit at the link above.

I would recommend anyone interested in commenting and eliciting feedback to interact with that thread as well.

[iluvbitcoins]

XMR was around $20 then, so that is $200k. Enough to live comfortably for a few years where PJ is located.

Man, dude lives in Serbia, the average wage there is 400$, that's 42 years of average Serbian wages
PJ can live his entire life with that kind of money
Considering he sold right away, if he kept some, he can provide for his fucking grandchildren.

Regarding debts, my thoughts have always been that those were Risto's

So, Ristos assets should be used to repay his debts.

Crazy thought. Think of seeing the CK town map and neighboring lands being color-coded to different "currency" civilizations based on the dominant holders in the area. You join CK and you pick a civilization: BTC, LTC, AEON, BCY, PepeCash, etc. and and then you go out and build your empire!

A good idea would be to allow people to create a civilization for their currency for a certain price, good funding  
Ofc, we would add major currencies ourselves.
That would add a lot to the name Crypto Kingdom.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

Regarding debts, my thoughts have always been that those were Risto's

So, Ristos assets should be used to repay his debts.

The least unfair (best we'll all be able to agree to) way to approach this it seems to me would be to essentially integrate the 'death' of the king into the game itself, meaning at face value his assets would belong to the game itself, and would be 'off-limits'. For them to be used to pay off debts (which is fair in my opinion) the process would be to submit a git issue, which would be turned over to a community vote which could be conducted in-game. It would be impossible to have the system be 100% fair, but something along the lines of an account owning between 1 and infinite units of real estate has a vote weighted with a minimum weight of 5, with an additional weight of X added for every (whatever the community decides) units of real estate .., if you have no real estate but your in game assets have X property your vote has a weight of 2' or whatever is the fairest approach that pisses off the least number of people. I'm sure someone in the community knows game theory better than myself. What I'm considering is putting up the site at first, having a dev available for implementing stuff like this (rapidly and responsively) until the project would move along without the training wheels. After nailing down fair voting everything would be up for vote, including who gets dev access to git, where to host server, whether to allow people to create objects at will or assign a cost so that it doesn't get spammed, moving everything to exist within a smart contract block-chain based setup, whatever... We'd have a dev from the start who could implement changes like that overnight, happily, and code would be of good quality. Well, smart contract set-up wouldn't happen overnight. But if this flops it flops, I'm not horrified by that idea. I'd like to let this linger for a bit so as to be able to gauge opposition and see if and to and to what degree there is strong disagreement, which will indicate whether I should try to get things moving or leave it be.

[CrazyLoaf]

Man, dude lives in Serbia, the average wage there is 400$, that's 42 years of average Serbian wages
PJ can live his entire life with that kind of money
Considering he sold right away, if he kept some, he can provide for his fucking grandchildren.

I couldn't go further back in the changelog, but I know there was a confirmed near 5k XMR withdrawal around that time, so $100k in that case minimum. Honestly, I have a remembrance that it was over 10k XMR, maybe even 20k that Risto gave him!

So, Ristos assets should be used to repay his debts.

As a debtholder myself, I obviously would like to be repaid even a portion of what I am owed. My issue with using Risto's assets are, firstly, how are they defined? Do Risto's assets include things like NewCorp, Town Housing Corp., and Hypothecary Bank as well as user assets like "Dark" and "Soul"?

And secondly, where do funds to actually and grow out the game come from? Several didn't seem to like the dilution route I suggested for creation of more M/CKM for a token exchange campaign (TEC). This would impact debt and non-debt holders equally and Smooth was at least warm to the idea. If we don't have any dilution, don't hold a TEC, and use all of Risto's assets to pay off, how will we grow?

A 1/3 of profit by the game going to "debt" payments and 1/3 for CKO holders and 1/3 saved for game growth tries to balance the different factors we need to keep in mind. %'s can change and we can of course think about if we even want "CKO" (ownership) shares that function like old "CK" shares to a degree. Smooth was earlier saying that there needs to be a separation of currency and ownership, but I am not sure to what levels this needs to be done. 

A good idea would be to allow people to create a civilization for their currency for a certain price, good funding 
Ofc, we would add major currencies ourselves.
That would add a lot to the name Crypto Kingdom.

Well, we can always finally implement the long-promised ShapeShift.io integration.

I think with this aspect as well, we can try to tap into the urge that people have with games such as agar.io or lordz.io. Which is seeing growth, a rising score rank, and competing with other factions.

The least unfair (best we'll all be able to agree to) way to approach this it seems to me would be to essentially integrate the 'death' of the king into the game itself, meaning at face value his assets would belong to the game itself, and would be 'off-limits'.

Risto has not been the king for a long time. That was given to HMC at one point. I believe there was also and "in-game" event turned over all of Risto's assets to the game and they are currently not being used at all.

For them to be used to pay off debts (which is fair in my opinion) the process would be to submit a git issue, which would be turned over to a community vote which could be conducted in-game. It would be impossible to have the system be 100% fair, but something along the lines of an account owning between 1 and infinite units of real estate has a vote weighted with a minimum weight of 5, with an additional weight of X added for every (whatever the community decides) units of real estate .., if you have no real estate but your in game assets have X property your vote has a weight of 2' or whatever is the fairest approach that pisses off the least number of people. I'm sure someone in the community knows game theory better than myself.

All good ideas. I also like how "voting power" can be more than just a single asset type. Perhaps this can be the way to calculate CKO distribution or can be used in place of CKO.

What I'm considering is putting up the site at first, having a dev available for implementing stuff like this (rapidly and responsively) until the project would move along without the training wheels. After nailing down fair voting everything would be up for vote, including who gets dev access to git, where to host server, whether to allow people to create objects at will or assign a cost so that it doesn't get spammed, moving everything to exist within a smart contract block-chain based setup, whatever... We'd have a dev from the start who could implement changes like that overnight, happily, and code would be of good quality. Well, smart contract set-up wouldn't happen overnight. But if this flops it flops, I'm not horrified by that idea. I'd like to let this linger for a bit so as to be able to gauge opposition and see if and to and to what degree there is strong disagreement, which will indicate whether I should try to get things moving or leave it be.

This all sounds great, and many of us got involved in CK for this sort of system!

[iluvbitcoins]

As a debtholder myself, I obviously would like to be repaid even a portion of what I am owed. My issue with using Risto's assets are, firstly, how are they defined? Do Risto's assets include things like NewCorp, Town Housing Corp., and Hypothecary Bank as well as user assets like "Dark" and "Soul"?

And secondly, where do funds to actually and grow out the game come from? Several didn't seem to like the dilution route I suggested for creation of more M/CKM for a token exchange campaign (TEC). This would impact debt and non-debt holders equally and Smooth was at least warm to the idea. If we don't have any dilution, don't hold a TEC, and use all of Risto's assets to pay off, how will we grow?

A 1/3 of profit by the game going to "debt" payments and 1/3 for CKO holders and 1/3 saved for game growth tries to balance the different factors we need to keep in mind. %'s can change and we can of course think about if we even want "CKO" (ownership) shares that function like old "CK" shares to a degree. Smooth was earlier saying that there needs to be a separation of currency and ownership, but I am not sure to what levels this needs to be done. 

I believe all his assets should be used to repay his debt, from which, we'll gather voluntary donations, which will probably be sufficient as if it was  forceably taken from his debtors.

[boomboom]

What the Game needs most right now is to have the basic economic engine restarted, and that means fixing things like building payouts, tax, health challenge etc, so people can actually play CK. If that happened the 'social network' of CK would revive, and then we'd all be in a better position to discuss larger changes.

If PJ can't restart the economic engine, but someone else can, then just do that for now, and I don't think anyone will complain as we'll be able to play CK again, and then communication channels that are basically dead now will revivie.

Leave the bigger decisions for down the road IMO, concentrate on making what we have 'playable' again.

[CrazyLoaf]

What the Game needs most right now is to have the basic economic engine restarted, and that means fixing things like building payouts, tax, health challenge etc, so people can actually play CK. If that happened the 'social network' of CK would revive, and then we'd all be in a better position to discuss larger changes.

If PJ can't restart the economic engine, but someone else can, then just do that for now, and I don't think anyone will complain as we'll be able to play CK again, and then communication channels that are basically dead now will revivie.

Leave the bigger decisions for down the road IMO, concentrate on making what we have 'playable' again.

Agreed, and that is the plan at the moment. Restart the basic economic engine and fix bugs. Introduce the ability for the community to drive and vote on changes moving forward.

At the same time, during this build out we want to look for places where modular design and moddabilty can happen. Say if a non-technical user wants to create a new item and the related cottage economy of that item. We want them to be able to do that.

Same thing with some quality of life improvements. Say something easier to work with than CLI for trading and gameplay, for example.

Finally, on the topic of "cards" and other blockchain assets, like EncryptedCharms and PepeCash, one area is to have the tech in place where people can "hook" in blockchain assets (looking at that same "modular" idea from above) and create items in the game that interact with them. So if AP/KC or whoever wants to put "Avarice's Wand" and "Melody's Orb" in the game, they can do that and then have it interact with the related blockchain assets.

Keep the discussions/comments coming!

[CrazyLoaf]

HIGH ;P May start randomly throwing out some concepts/ideas for discussion...

Game Time Period Naming

In the Crypto Kingdom Relaunch (CK:R to save typing, but don't worry, that isn't the name), I would recommend restarting the game at a base time of zero.

Why? A couple reasons. One is that we need to disconnect from specific real world associations and expectations. I believe we have long been paused at 1691, but we have no where near the development/tech/etc. to mirror that real time period. Related, I would also recommend removing CryptoTown's placement on any world map. We should be kingdom in a large, shadowy unknown with the only tooltip when hovering over the dark fog is "here be dragons"

Say we use 0 CKT or "Crypto Kingdom Time", or we can use 0 CKE for "Crypto Kingdom Era". We will keep all prior items and they will be based on BCKT/BCKE.

Looking at the Agora Marketplace, the oldest item is WRL-1 "Hundreds of papyri" from 1000. The age on this would be 1691 - 1000, or 691 BCKT/BCKE. Ignoring WOS-F "Servant Grey Clothes" which somehow has a 1699 date, the newest item is the "Phoenix Medal" from 1690. The age on this would be 1691 - 1690, or 1 BCKT/BCKE.

The added value of this is we automatically create an "antiques" market for these old items, many of which do not have a point and may never have a point. As they are from an era that will never come again (BCKT/BCKE), they are precious rarities.

And while the progression of game time compared to real world time is still to be discussed, if, say, we as a community end up with a cyberpunk world of purple hues out of the pages of "Ready Player One" in 350 CKT, it won't seem as odd or weird

[CrazyLoaf]

In-Game Currency Name

HMC did have a really good point before that "gold" is a good name for an in-game currency as people have an expectation of gold holding that function based on playing other MMORPG style games.

In this case, I recommend the current in-game currency (M) becoming CKG (Crypto Kingdom Gold) in CK:R. For all earlier discussions, replace CKM with CKG for these purposes as well.

Naturally, this opens the issue as we already have an in-game amount of gold also called CKG in the amount of roughly 1,000,000 units. Now this could be replaced with another element or name. One option would to be just to give the current CKG a qualifier. Maybe CKAG or CKRG for CK Artisanal Gold or Refined Gold. Of course name is still a placeholder. Would recommend making the same name change (whatever is chosen) with silver (CKS) in game.

[Gaben.]

All this relaunching talk is at risk of being a wash as long as it's mostly talked about here.

Maybe a non private slack or ryver chat would be feasible as far as keeping the flow of information logical?

Also neat ideas so far fellas

One question, and I still think the conversation needs to take place in a ryver/slack channel - we keep saying 'basic economic engine' and I don't think I've seen that well defined anywhere. Could someone put together a list of what they think a 'basic economic engine' is along with a 'advanced economic engine' or whatever other tiers of economic engines exist in ck?

[CrazyLoaf]

All this relaunching talk is at risk of being a wash as long as it's mostly talked about here.

Maybe a non private slack or ryver chat would be feasible as far as keeping the flow of information logical?

Also neat ideas so far fellas

One question, and I still think the conversation needs to take place in a ryver/slack channel - we keep saying 'basic economic engine' and I don't think I've seen that well defined anywhere. Could someone put together a list of what they think a 'basic economic engine' is along with a 'advanced economic engine' or whatever other tiers of economic engines exist in ck?

Agree on the private slack: public is better. But don't worry, there has been very little activity on there and it's main purpose has been to try to get in touch with PJ as far as I can tell. I myself used it today to offer PJ payment to put the into place a database and game logic cloning for CK:R.

Just to provide a little more detail on the current concept: ideally, we'd want the "fork date" announced ahead of time, then a pause in the cryptokingdom.me site for site cloning, and then cryptokingdom.me can continue as it has been or be retired. All assets and items would move over to the CK:R implementation.

About the only item of concern would be M3/XMR, but if everyone chooses to go with CK:R, the depo can just move there. Otherwise, iluvbitcoins/saddam is welcome to open a XMR (or any other cryptocurrency) depo on CK:R.

There is the CK IRC channel at ##cryptokingdom which is more active. That is open to everyone. Until someone makes a public slack or other sort of easily accessible channel, I would recommend this for live discussion. Again, if someone wants to create and maintain an open slack channel for CK/CK:R in general, they are welcome to.

In terms of 'advanced economic engines' I think that is more in line with things that were planned down the road, like different professions for players that also had a use to other players. Honestly I spent a few hours recently going through the old CK wiki (http://cryptokingdom.wikia.com/wiki/Crypto_Kingdom_Wiki) and was really surprised to see Risto talked about many of the the things we always wanted right from the start. Just too much to really cover.

Ideally, CK:R will be modular where people can create their own mods/aspects in a non-techie friendly fashion (or at least with very clear technical hookups and API items). The original problem with CK is that there was too much reliance on Risto. Games have always done best when opened up to the world at large to create.

On the 'basic' side, that would be getting the game going again in bug-free fashion with the rent and labor pools up, as well as possibly some minor consumption needs. Overall, maybe going back to some of the gameplay of the early "Ultima" implementation. Any comments or economics suggestions here are welcome, especially from older players.