Evolution is a hoax

[Astargath]

Science says it's random, you claim it's not, so you have to prove it.

Blah, blah, blah. Science says that they don't know that it is random.

Evolution is a hoax.

No, not bla bla,

''During a measurement, on the other hand, the change of the initial wave function into another, later wave function is not deterministic, it is unpredictable (i.e., random). A time-evolution simulation can be seen here.[39][40]''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics

Unless you think quantum mechanics is also a hoax, at this point all science will be!!

When you read the article, science theory is mentioned at least several times. It is the nature of science theory to be a best science found up to that time. So, we don't know that pure random exists.

The idea of "unpredictable" means that they haven't been able to predict something with the knowledge and equipment that they have.

The "random" mentioned above isn't clear enough to know whether or not it is pure random, or random as used 200 years ago.

Quantum Mechanics, by its nature, can be used to find whatever answer you are looking for, if you work at it hard enough. This means that if pure random was determined by QM, the opposite of it could be determined as well.

This puts us right back where we were were before... countless numbers of proven C&E, but not one proven instance of pure random. This means that evolution is questionable, at best - or it would be if it hadn't been prove impossible by a bunch of other science. Since evolution is touted as fact when it is not known to be factual...

Evolution is a hoax.

later wave function is not deterministic, it is unpredictable (i.e., random).

Actually it's pretty clear, explained 3 different ways. Not deterministic, unpredictable and random, if you don't know what it means, use a dictionary

[twthmoses]

Hmm, what is the alternative? Let’s assume that evolution is not true, what is the alternative? I know you think it’s irrelevant to the question whether Evolution is true or not, but it’s not irrelevant. It raises a whole horde of other questions that is equal interesting.

Was all species just created from the beginning? Must have been a crowded place to begin with! We know many species have dies out, where they all there to begin with, at the same time? Did dinosaurs live at the same time as humans?, did prehistoric sharks (what we call prehistoric sharks) live at the same time as modern sharks, etc... How come all these prehistoric monsters, all lost out to more “soft” species with us today. I mean not many carnivores today can match prehistoric carnivores in a one-on-one battle; still they all lost, in the water, on land, in the air.

These are just a few questions popping up if evolution is not true. Can you help me out with understand how this works?

Start a thread something like, "Alternatives to Evolution."

Evolution is not true because, among many other things, there is no random in nature. Everything operates through cause and effect. There are no random mutations. We might think that there are because of our inability to see most causes, directly. But science shows us more and more all the time that there are causes for everything.

You have a bunch of questions, many of which we don't have answers to, and never will until we can make a time viewer that can see into the past. All those questions would be there if evolution was real. The point isn't those questions. The point is that evolution is a hoax because we know reasons why it can't be real.

But, the biggest reason why evolution is a hoax is that we don't have even one proof for it, yet it is touted as being real.

Evolution is a hoax.

I’m in disagreement with that. You always say that there is no proof for Evolution and it can’t exist on account of C&E. If this is to be true, you will have to deal with the fossil record. Time is exceptional relevant to Evolution. Now while the fossil record in itself is not a direct proof that Evolution exists, the time frame they represent, is.

If your theory is to be true, of no Evolution, all these species, now as bones in the ground, must have started out at the same time. They certainly did not evolve from each other that you are sure of. So either there is many starts or they all started at the same time?

I can hardly find a more relevant question to an, Evolution is a hoax, thread. Time is a fundamental in Evolutionary theory, and if you are unable to explain how Dinosaurs relate to Human in the time frame, your theory has no merit whatsoever.

[BADecker]

Hmm, what is the alternative? Let’s assume that evolution is not true, what is the alternative? I know you think it’s irrelevant to the question whether Evolution is true or not, but it’s not irrelevant. It raises a whole horde of other questions that is equal interesting.

Was all species just created from the beginning? Must have been a crowded place to begin with! We know many species have dies out, where they all there to begin with, at the same time? Did dinosaurs live at the same time as humans?, did prehistoric sharks (what we call prehistoric sharks) live at the same time as modern sharks, etc... How come all these prehistoric monsters, all lost out to more “soft” species with us today. I mean not many carnivores today can match prehistoric carnivores in a one-on-one battle; still they all lost, in the water, on land, in the air.

These are just a few questions popping up if evolution is not true. Can you help me out with understand how this works?

Start a thread something like, "Alternatives to Evolution."

Evolution is not true because, among many other things, there is no random in nature. Everything operates through cause and effect. There are no random mutations. We might think that there are because of our inability to see most causes, directly. But science shows us more and more all the time that there are causes for everything.

You have a bunch of questions, many of which we don't have answers to, and never will until we can make a time viewer that can see into the past. All those questions would be there if evolution was real. The point isn't those questions. The point is that evolution is a hoax because we know reasons why it can't be real.

But, the biggest reason why evolution is a hoax is that we don't have even one proof for it, yet it is touted as being real.

Evolution is a hoax.

I’m in disagreement with that. You always say that there is no proof for Evolution and it can’t exist on account of C&E. If this is to be true, you will have to deal with the fossil record. Time is exceptional relevant to Evolution. Now while the fossil record in itself is not a direct proof that Evolution exists, the time frame they represent, is.

The fossil record doesn't show evolutionary change. If two fossils are almost the same, but are slightly different, how do you tell if they are or are not of the same family or grouping or species? After all, parents and their children are very different sometimes, right now, yet have no genetic difference that could be attributed to evolutionary change. Why not the fossil record? Suggesting evolution is guesswork.

The time frame is guesswork. Some of the scientists who wrote about how to tell the age of the earth or universe, even state that the time frame is a big guess... that it is only there so that we have a way to categorize things. We have no proof of billions of years. We can barely tell that things dated from 5,000 years ago are really 5,000 years old.

If your theory is to be true, of no Evolution, all these species, now as bones in the ground, must have started out at the same time. They certainly did not evolve from each other that you are sure of. So either there is many starts or they all started at the same time?

The fact that there is no evolution as stated in evolution theory, is not a theory. It is a fact that evolution is not a fact.

Why do creatures that have not evolved from each other, have to have started at the same time? Why could they not simply start at different times, caused by some force that we don't know about?

Why could creatures not have started at the same time? The fossil record merely shows that there were a lot more creatures and kinds of creatures in the ancient past. It says nothing about them having evolved from each other.

I can hardly find a more relevant question to an, Evolution is a hoax, thread. Time is a fundamental in Evolutionary theory, and if you are unable to explain how Dinosaurs relate to Human in the time frame, your theory has no merit whatsoever.

When you do a detailed look into the various ways that scientists determine the age of the universe, all of them have questionability attached. One of the major questions revolves around the idea that operations in the universe and on earth acted differently than we assume they did back then/whenever. We don't know for a fact how history was made back then. We can't tell the age of the universe that way, because we don't know for a fact if things acted like we assume they did.

Five thousand years is about all the farther we can go back, basing it on pottery and language and mitochondria. Carbon and other radioactive dating are flawed, both in how they works, and in our approach for using them.

Evolution is a hoax, because it is touted as factual, when it is not known to be factual.

[BADecker]

later wave function is not deterministic, it is unpredictable (i.e., random).

Actually, it's pretty clear, explained 3 different ways. Not deterministic, unpredictable and random, if you don't know what it means, use a dictionary

He is barking up the wrong tree.  He should just let it go.  Bible details cannot be defended.  It is like defending the Flat Earth concept.

If he wants, he can believe in some pantheistic God that nobody can prove or disprove, but the God in the Bible?  Sorry, all these scriptures are full of historical errors, pure supernatural nonsense, or self-contradictions.  All these Gods are the product of human imagination.

He jumps on the Evolution Theory because his church buddies came up with some silly reasons to say it is a hoax.

Let him say that the Evolution Theory is a hoax and we can all move on.  He is a disturbed individual.

Anyone who actually looked at the scientific evidence knows that it is as close to a fact as 2+2=4

Since this is an evolution thread, let's not waste time on defending or proving the Bible.

Back 100 years ago, there were a lot of things that science figured out. Then some later scientists showed why those earlier scientists were wrong.

Not deterministic and unpredictable only means that we haven't figured it out. But 100 years from now, scientists may have all the answers as to why. Why what? Why there is C&E in everything, and no pure random... as we commonly see all over the place today.

Evolution is a hoax.

[BADecker]

Why are you stuck on the word random?  The changes are not exactly random.

https://www.livescience.com/48103-evolution-not-random.html

Many variables influence the changes.

Relax, the Evolution Theory is a fact.

Good night, sleep tight.

Well, thank you for the good night, sleep tight wishes.

Absolutely, evolution theory is a fact. I mean, it is written down in different ways in loads of books, it is talked about and taught in schools, and scientists use its ideas to do all kinds of experiments. Why state the obvious? Evolution theory absolutely is a fact? But nobody has shown that evolution is a fact. And what does relaxing or not relaxing have to do with it?

From New Scientist: Evolution myths: Evolution is random:

Evolution by natural selection is a two-step process, and only the first step is random: mutations are chance events, but their survival is often anything but.

From Wikipedia: Natural selection:

This occurs partly because random mutations arise in the genome of an individual organism, and offspring can inherit such mutations.

Perhaps these writers don't know what they are talking about by using the word random. But it seems more likely that the word random is used throughout evolution ideas and evolution theory. Since it is used, it is important to define it in its use.

Roll the dice, flip a coin, or shoot some pool. Isn't the result often due to some randomness? Or is it only due to cause and effect? It's all due to cause and effect. The only random that exists is due to our inability to see/know/understand all the causes. In other words, random in science only comes from our weakness that denies us the ability to view all the causes.

For example. Science fact exists only when you can demonstrate something that is repeatable in science. And it has to be repeatable every time for the same set of circumstances. And it has to be shown that no other result can be derived from that set of circumstances.

So, how can we tell that evolution is factual? We can't duplicate all the forces involved, because we don't know them. But if we knew them, we still wouldn't even know how to measure all of them. But if we could measure all of them in the present, what does that have to do with the DNA measurements we would need from countless creatures over the thousands of years that evolution supposedly took place in the past? But even if we were able to take these DNA measurements from the distant past, we would still have to find a chain of DNA changes over thousands of years, that would provide a truly beneficial change in some creature by turning it into a better creature. If we don't find this stuff, we don't know that evolution happened. But even if we know that evolving does happen, we would need this stuff to show that evolution was a substantial reason for some of the creatures that we have. And if we found out that it was, we would still have to determine that there wasn't some form of creation or something else... just to say that evolution was how it all happened.

Not only have we not gotten to first base regarding things in the previous paragraph, but we haven't even decided where we are going to set up the baseball diamond.

To say that evolution is factual based on a bunch of creatures that look similar but different, and their fossils, without having the DNA to make this determination, is totally anti-science. Show us the proof for evolution, or stop saying that evolution is true, real, and factual. If you keep on saying that evolution is true, real, and factual, without having the stuff mentioned two paragraphs up, you are simply proving that you are not able to think, or are simply trusting what somebody else says, or are a liar.

Evolution is a hoax.

[Astargath]

later wave function is not deterministic, it is unpredictable (i.e., random).

Actually, it's pretty clear, explained 3 different ways. Not deterministic, unpredictable and random, if you don't know what it means, use a dictionary

He is barking up the wrong tree.  He should just let it go.  Bible details cannot be defended.  It is like defending the Flat Earth concept.

If he wants, he can believe in some pantheistic God that nobody can prove or disprove, but the God in the Bible?  Sorry, all these scriptures are full of historical errors, pure supernatural nonsense, or self-contradictions.  All these Gods are the product of human imagination.

He jumps on the Evolution Theory because his church buddies came up with some silly reasons to say it is a hoax.

Let him say that the Evolution Theory is a hoax and we can all move on.  He is a disturbed individual.

Anyone who actually looked at the scientific evidence knows that it is as close to a fact as 2+2=4

Since this is an evolution thread, let's not waste time on defending or proving the Bible.

Back 100 years ago, there were a lot of things that science figured out. Then some later scientists showed why those earlier scientists were wrong.

Not deterministic and unpredictable only means that we haven't figured it out. But 100 years from now, scientists may have all the answers as to why. Why what? Why there is C&E in everything, and no pure random... as we commonly see all over the place today.

Evolution is a hoax.

No, lies.

Definition of unpredictable
: not predictable: such as
a : not able to be known or declared in advance
unpredictable weather
b : tending to behave in ways that cannot be predicted
an unpredictable boss

That's what you claim, that science just hasn't figure it out, how do you know for sure?

''there is C&E in everything'' Well it seems like that's not true.

[Moloch]

When are you guys going to realize that BADLogic lacks intellectual honesty/integrity, and has no interest in a debate that might lead to actual answers?

His replies will always be bullshit, supported with no facts or evidence... there will never be a link to a scientific article backing up any of his claims

Why bother arguing with someone like this?

Just let him go on with his nonsense, but please stop feeding the troll



"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics.  Even if you win, you're still retarded"

[BADecker]

When are you jokers going to remember that this topic is about evolution. Even if there were nothing that showed evolution to be impossible, evolution would still be so extremely far from being proven, that it should be dropped simply because it is a big waste of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg47076294#msg47076294.

However, since it is touted as factual...

Evolution is a hoax.

[repsol]

For me, evolution of hoaxes, my question is why is the theory of evolution taught in schools while evolution cannot be proven? For example, if humans come from monkeys, why are monkeys still there and not humans? I don't believe in evolution

[IndeecV]

Interestingly, people who do not believe in evolution. Do you believe that the wolf turned out to be a chihuahua? In this case, you recognize the selection, which means you understand that organisms can change. What is the problem then understand evolution?
About why monkeys still exist. The fact is that wolves also exist. But there are also terriers and bulldogs.

[Astargath]

When are you jokers going to remember that this topic is about evolution. Even if there were nothing that showed evolution to be impossible, evolution would still be so extremely far from being proven, that it should be dropped simply because it is a big waste of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg47076294#msg47076294.

However, since it is touted as factual...

Evolution is a hoax.

That'a nice way to not admit being wrong about c&e and randomness. Shows you are intellectual dishonest.

[BADecker]

When are you jokers going to remember that this topic is about evolution. Even if there were nothing that showed evolution to be impossible, evolution would still be so extremely far from being proven, that it should be dropped simply because it is a big waste of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg47076294#msg47076294.

However, since it is touted as factual...

Evolution is a hoax.

That'a nice way to not admit being wrong about c&e and randomness. Shows you are intellectual dishonest.

If you had any proof for evolution that could contradict what I said at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg47076294#msg47076294, wouldn't you use it? Wouldn't you get right in there and show how I am wrong, step by step?  But you can't. So all you do is beat around the bush. Since you don't have any evolution example that is factual evolution...

Evolution is a hoax.

[Astargath]

When are you jokers going to remember that this topic is about evolution. Even if there were nothing that showed evolution to be impossible, evolution would still be so extremely far from being proven, that it should be dropped simply because it is a big waste of time - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg47076294#msg47076294.

However, since it is touted as factual...

Evolution is a hoax.

That'a nice way to not admit being wrong about c&e and randomness. Shows you are intellectual dishonest.

If you had any proof for evolution that could contradict what I said at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1917510.msg47076294#msg47076294, wouldn't you use it? Wouldn't you get right in there and show how I am wrong, step by step?  But you can't. So all you do is beat around the bush. Since you don't have any evolution example that is factual evolution...

Evolution is a hoax.

Well, I already debunked your ''random doesn't exist theory'' which is half of what you wrote there but you are unable to admit it so why should I continue further if you are never going to admit when you are wrong?

[joebrook]

To the pro evolution people on this forum, I would like to ask a question and that’s why hasn’t there been an remarkable form of evolution in the last 1000 years.

[BADecker]

To the pro evolution people on this forum, I would like to ask a question and that’s why hasn’t there been an remarkable form of evolution in the last 1000 years.

The 1000 years window is very small on the evolutionary scale to see any significant morphological changes.  There were some evolutionary changes in humans in the last 2,000-10,000 years:

https://www.fastcompany.com/3064907/over-the-last-2000-years-humans-have-evolved-in-some-surprising-ways

http://mentalfloss.com/article/30795/5-signs-humans-are-still-evolving

Evolution is happening right now in all species, not just humans.

This is precisely why evolution is such a good religion. 1000 years is nothing in evolution. So, nobody can test DNA over the last 10,000 years to see if there really was any evolution. Modern science has been around (sort of) for the last 300 years. Absolutely no way to prove for evolution is such a short time as that.

But that's what evolutionists like. It gives them a job, always looking for proof where and in ways they can never find it. It allows them to change theory (doctrine) to suit their whims. And most of all, it lets them feel good about themselves... when people praise them for their great thinking and hard work.

Well, the evolution religion is dying, right now. More and more people are recognizing it for the scam that it is. Many schools don't require more than a single credit for it any longer, and the only reason they require that, is so that they look good in the eyes of schools that require more.

Evolution is a complete hoax... except where it is a religion.

[Astargath]

To the pro evolution people on this forum, I would like to ask a question and that’s why hasn’t there been an remarkable form of evolution in the last 1000 years.

The 1000 years window is very small on the evolutionary scale to see any significant morphological changes.  There were some evolutionary changes in humans in the last 2,000-10,000 years:

https://www.fastcompany.com/3064907/over-the-last-2000-years-humans-have-evolved-in-some-surprising-ways

http://mentalfloss.com/article/30795/5-signs-humans-are-still-evolving

Evolution is happening right now in all species, not just humans.

This is precisely why evolution is such a good religion. 1000 years is nothing in evolution. So, nobody can test DNA over the last 10,000 years to see if there really was any evolution. Modern science has been around (sort of) for the last 300 years. Absolutely no way to prove for evolution is such a short time as that.

But that's what evolutionists like. It gives them a job, always looking for proof where and in ways they can never find it. It allows them to change theory (doctrine) to suit their whims. And most of all, it lets them feel good about themselves... when people praise them for their great thinking and hard work.

Well, the evolution religion is dying, right now. More and more people are recognizing it for the scam that it is. Many schools don't require more than a single credit for it any longer, and the only reason they require that, is so that they look good in the eyes of schools that require more.

Evolution is a complete hoax... except where it is a religion.

''Well, the evolution religion is dying, right now. More and more people are recognizing it for the scam that it is''

A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time

[BADecker]

To the pro evolution people on this forum, I would like to ask a question and that’s why hasn’t there been an remarkable form of evolution in the last 1000 years.

The 1000 years window is very small on the evolutionary scale to see any significant morphological changes.  There were some evolutionary changes in humans in the last 2,000-10,000 years:

https://www.fastcompany.com/3064907/over-the-last-2000-years-humans-have-evolved-in-some-surprising-ways

http://mentalfloss.com/article/30795/5-signs-humans-are-still-evolving

Evolution is happening right now in all species, not just humans.

This is precisely why evolution is such a good religion. 1000 years is nothing in evolution. So, nobody can test DNA over the last 10,000 years to see if there really was any evolution. Modern science has been around (sort of) for the last 300 years. Absolutely no way to prove for evolution is such a short time as that.

But that's what evolutionists like. It gives them a job, always looking for proof where and in ways they can never find it. It allows them to change theory (doctrine) to suit their whims. And most of all, it lets them feel good about themselves... when people praise them for their great thinking and hard work.

Well, the evolution religion is dying, right now. More and more people are recognizing it for the scam that it is. Many schools don't require more than a single credit for it any longer, and the only reason they require that, is so that they look good in the eyes of schools that require more.

Evolution is a complete hoax... except where it is a religion.

''Well, the evolution religion is dying, right now. More and more people are recognizing it for the scam that it is''

A 2009 poll by Pew Research Center found that "Nearly all scientists (97%) say humans and other living things have evolved over time

You still trust the polls? Or are you making them up? LOL. Does it matter? I mean, even if scientists are turning away from the formal religions, towards the evolution religion and other science religions, they are still people... religious beings.

The fact that evolution has never been proven -

...

So, how can we tell that evolution is factual? We can't duplicate all the forces involved, because we don't know them. But if we knew them, we still wouldn't even know how to measure all of them. But if we could measure all of them in the present, what does that have to do with the DNA measurements we would need from countless creatures over the thousands of years that evolution supposedly took place in the past? But even if we were able to take these DNA measurements from the distant past, we would still have to find a chain of DNA changes over thousands of years, that would provide a truly beneficial change in some creature by turning it into a better creature. If we don't find this stuff, we don't know that evolution happened. But even if we know that evolving does happen, we would need this stuff to show that evolution was a substantial reason for some of the creatures that we have. And if we found out that it was, we would still have to determine that there wasn't some form of creation or something else... just to say that evolution was how it all happened.

...

- simply shows how much scientists are like all people - religious - even though they don't realize it.


Evolution is a hoax.

[tvbcof]

Evolution is 'how it works' and is about as close to a 'fact' as it gets in science.

The arguments I've heard from the religionist side of things are laughably childish and absurd.  The tend to demonstrate a very shaky grasp of almost any of the fundamental elements of scientific pursuit.

That said, 'the theory of evolution' has been used by countless scumbags to justify some of the most disgusting actions that humans have ever undertaken.  Many of these have been performed by so-called 'atheists' who are more likely to agree with the basic tenets of the theory than your average bible-thumping Christian, but it is more common that people who want to justify their actions under their brand of spirituality find in the theory of evolution an excuse to 'do evil' and a way to justify it.  I don't consider such people to be 'atheists'.  Far from it.

I think that it is pissing into the wind for Christians to deny something such as the theory of evolution in hopes that by the theory being wrong, the shitty things people use it for will vanish.  At best they would find some other justification.  It might be worth noting that religious people who have a compulsion to do shitty things find their own justifications for it.  Some religious people have it easier than others...especially those who have a talmud and a zohar.

[BADecker]

Adaptation, like-begets-like, and simple change, fit nature far better than does evolution.

DuckDuckGo search on "evolution is impossible" to see why.

Cause and effect in everything, acting with exact precision, shows that everything is programmed.

The thing that is necessary for proof of evolution:

...

So, how can we tell that evolution is factual? We can't duplicate all the forces involved, because we don't know them. But if we knew them, we still wouldn't even know how to measure all of them. But if we could measure all of them in the present, what does that have to do with the DNA measurements we would need from countless creatures over the thousands of years that evolution supposedly took place in the past? But even if we were able to take these DNA measurements from the distant past, we would still have to find a chain of DNA changes over thousands of years, that would provide a truly beneficial change in some creature by turning it into a better creature. If we don't find this stuff, we don't know that evolution happened. But even if we know that evolving does happen, we would need this stuff to show that evolution was a substantial reason for some of the creatures that we have. And if we found out that it was, we would still have to determine that there wasn't some form of creation or something else... just to say that evolution was how it all happened.

...

Since evolution has not been factually proven to exist, and since there is a lot that has shown that evolution is impossible, proves that...

Evolution is a hoax.

[BADecker]

Human 2.0 Is Almost Here: The Transhumanism Agenda Just Went Mainstream


Human 2.0 Is Almost Here: The Transhumanism Agenda Just Went Mainstream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsTYOqu3Tl0