Butterfly Labs just sent me an update e-mail!

[mgio]

Wow, wasn't expecting to hear from them.

They said we had to confirm our orders or they would be canceled.

But now when I try to log into their website, it is down .

Everyone else get this e-mail?

[1714888336]

1714888336

[1714888336]

1714888336

[ModusPwnd]

I got it.  Also cant log in.

[Bogart]

Same here, though the site worked for a couple minutes.

I guess they sent the emails all at once, and the mass rush knocked over the site.

self.pwn();

[Inaba]

Account server is overloaded at the moment.  I would wait awhile before trying again... you have plenty of time, it's not like your orders will be canceled today or anything.

[candoo]

BFL Products Shipping Now
May 1, 2013


Dear Customer,

Shipping of our BitForce SC ASIC miners has begun!

You may have seen news reports of our ASIC miners in the wild and some of you may have already taken delivery.  It's all true.  We're finally shipping.  You will receive your order as we work through the shipping queue .

If you didn't know, you can check your order status on our website. Log in by clicking here. Use the same email and password you set up your account with.

If you don't have your password, use the Lost Password function to create a new one.


So what took so long?

This third generation of our SHA256 engine was a complex multi-year investment in bringing the latest semiconductor technology to bitcoin mining.

Developing a fully custom 65nm ASIC processor is not a casual undertaking. In fact, the new products have improved mining speed by a factor of 72. This much advancement doesn't come easy and it's fair to say that getting here has been eventful.

The key issue has been the engineering related to accommodating larger power draws than expected. A good example is the Jalapeno product. It was originally designed to be powered by USB but now consumes the power of a small light bulb (30w).

Consequently the power regulator, enclosure, airflow and PCB needed upgrading to suit. Although we are *very* aware of the undesirable dynamics of any delay, we were nonetheless obligated to make these updates in order to deliver a reliable product at the expected performance.  The same adjustments have been made with all products in the lineup.  You can see the adjusted product cases in our currently posted product lineup.  (The Mini Rig case will be double shipped to satisfy their orders which is why we've run out Mini Rig enclosure stock).
 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!


Jalapenos Out the Door
Packaged for its adventure to a new home. Bye Jalapeno! Your owner eagerly awaits your arrival.
 

Easy Miner Beta Release
An easy way to mine with a GUI and real-time Bitcoin statistics, developed for Windows and Android. Linux version coming soon.  Download and participate in the beta by clicking here.
 

New Single Form Factor
The new form factor for the Single. The new body offers room for performance growth while keeping things ultra cool.
 

[howdoin]

not email for me sofar...

[enygma]

I managed to confirm my order. I had to refresh pages sometimes because Cloudflare would kick in. It took a bit, but I did manage to accept and confirm the order is now "Processing".

[CoinHoarder]

Wow, wasn't expecting to hear from them.

They said we had to confirm our orders or they would be canceled.

But now when I try to log into their website, it is down .

Everyone else get this e-mail?

This is them not wanting to get sued.

By "confirming" your order, you are have to basically waiving any legal rights you have to sue them for their false promises.

[candoo]

Read the email  here

http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=5015fc3486176144c53751877&id=3af5f83481&e=37bd47dc5f

[pieppiep]

your orders will be canceled today

What?



Sorry... 

[smoothie]

"WE ARE SHIPPING! BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO WAIT BECAUSE WE CAN'T SHIP YET BECAUSE WE DONT HAVE CHIPS!

WE WONT TELL YOU THIS IN THE EMAIL ASKING YOU TO CONFIRM YOUR ORDER!"

LOL  

[Korbman]

Got my email! Ah, the news I've (and thousands of others) have waited ages for..

[tigerfree]

Got my email! Ah, the news I've (and thousands of others) have waited ages for..

 

[smoothie]

BFL Products Shipping Now
May 1, 2013


Dear Customer,

Shipping of our BitForce SC ASIC miners has begun!

You may have seen news reports of our ASIC miners in the wild and some of you may have already taken delivery.  It's all true.  We're finally shipping.  You will receive your order as we work through the shipping queue .

If you didn't know, you can check your order status on our website. Log in by clicking here. Use the same email and password you set up your account with.

If you don't have your password, use the Lost Password function to create a new one.


So what took so long?

This third generation of our SHA256 engine was a complex multi-year investment in bringing the latest semiconductor technology to bitcoin mining.

Developing a fully custom 65nm ASIC processor is not a casual undertaking. In fact, the new products have improved mining speed by a factor of 72. This much advancement doesn't come easy and it's fair to say that getting here has been eventful.

The key issue has been the engineering related to accommodating larger power draws than expected. A good example is the Jalapeno product. It was originally designed to be powered by USB but now consumes the power of a small light bulb (30w).

Consequently the power regulator, enclosure, airflow and PCB needed upgrading to suit. Although we are *very* aware of the undesirable dynamics of any delay, we were nonetheless obligated to make these updates in order to deliver a reliable product at the expected performance.  The same adjustments have been made with all products in the lineup.  You can see the adjusted product cases in our currently posted product lineup.  (The Mini Rig case will be double shipped to satisfy their orders which is why we've run out Mini Rig enclosure stock).
 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!


Jalapenos Out the Door
Packaged for its adventure to a new home. Bye Jalapeno! Your owner eagerly awaits your arrival.
 

Easy Miner Beta Release
An easy way to mine with a GUI and real-time Bitcoin statistics, developed for Windows and Android. Linux version coming soon.  Download and participate in the beta by clicking here.
 

New Single Form Factor
The new form factor for the Single. The new body offers room for performance growth while keeping things ultra cool.
 

And back to waiting lol... 

At what point do you give up as a customer on waiting?

I am so glad I never gave BFL a dime.

[enygma]

Got my email! Ah, the news I've (and thousands of others) have waited ages for..

There... now make me some dividends...

[Keninishna]

wait so, I put in a order for a single a lonnng time ago like when they first annouced but never paid for it and I got this email so if I confirm and send my btc now will I get bumped to front of the line!?

[mgio]

wait so, I put in a order for a single a lonnng time ago like when they first annouced but never paid for it and I got this email so if I confirm and send my btc now will I get bumped to front of the line!?

No, they said that the order you are in the line is when you actually paid for it, not when you ordered. At least that is what they told me when I ordered last year.

[sniffinpoprocks]

got the email, my order is 57xx series. trying to get in to confirm...

[PuertoLibre]

 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!
 

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

The other part of what this email is trying to obscure is the fact that if you AGREE, you lose your ability to refund. You the customer have been queried if you accept the changes, and as such, you lose your refund ability due to changes or any conformance differences.

So think before you tap "OK". Ask questions now! Then click.


--------------------

Very slick BFL. Very Slick.

[SgtSpike]

I managed to confirm my order. I had to refresh pages sometimes because Cloudflare would kick in. It took a bit, but I did manage to accept and confirm the order is now "Processing".

Hmmm, my order has said "processing" for quite a while.  I can't get in, but I wonder if it'll be asking me for confirmation or not.

[CanaryInTheMine]

Account server is overloaded at the moment.  I would wait awhile before trying again... you have plenty of time, it's not like your orders will be canceled today or anything.

What's the proper way to confirm?  may I ask why I need to confirm in the first place?  I've placed the order and have not asked to cancel/refund etc... so what is the purpose of confirming? Thanks!!!

[PuertoLibre]

 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!
 

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

The other part of what this email is trying to obscure is the fact that if you AGREE, you lose your ability to refund [for said changes]. You the customer have been queried if you accept the changes, and as such, you lose your refund ability due to changes or any conformance differences.

So think before you tap "OK". Ask questions now! Then click.


--------------------

Very slick BFL. Very Slick.

ALSO, PLEASE....ask what the time frame for delivery will be. Get it in writing!

This may be a scheme to get you to give your consent without telling you (or giving you) any indication of how long it will be before you receive your order.

You are signing on the electronic line that you accept any changes. THINK before you ACT. ASK QUESTIONS FIRST! Get assurances on timeline for delivery. ASK if Refunds will still be HONORED.

Don't walk into it blindly like sheeple.

[CanaryInTheMine]

I wonder if this is the result of them recently being contacted by a firm specializing in class action suits...

[enygma]

I managed to confirm my order. I had to refresh pages sometimes because Cloudflare would kick in. It took a bit, but I did manage to accept and confirm the order is now "Processing".

Hmmm, my order has said "processing" for quite a while.  I can't get in, but I wonder if it'll be asking me for confirmation or not.

It will ask the moment you log in. A popup window will appear. The order status at this point is something along the lines of "Waiting for acceptance"... or something like that. Once you agree, it will go back to "Processing".

[CoinHoarder]

I wonder if this is the result of them recently being contacted by a firm specializing in class action suits...

Probably, this was my first thought when I saw BFL was asking people to "confirm" their orders.

AKA. save BFL from a huge lawsuit... but OK, this is BFL... let's call it a "confirmation of your order."

[S M I L Y]

Hmm logged in.  No where to "Accept"  No popup or anything.

All my orders sitting as "Pending Acceptance"

[Bogart]

we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.

Very dodgy wording, seemingly designed to imply that a faster "confirmation" will result in a more advanced position in the queue, without actually saying so.

[jedunnigan]

Hmm logged in.  No where to "Accept"  No popup or anything.

All my orders sitting as "Pending Acceptance"

Look for the 'here' link in the email. You will see a dialog box pop up on the BFL website asking you to confirm after you follow the link.

[tigerfree]

 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!
 

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

The other part of what this email is trying to obscure is the fact that if you AGREE, you lose your ability to refund [for said changes]. You the customer have been queried if you accept the changes, and as such, you lose your refund ability due to changes or any conformance differences.

So think before you tap "OK". Ask questions now! Then click.


--------------------

Very slick BFL. Very Slick.

ALSO, PLEASE....ask what the time frame for delivery will be. Get it in writing!

This may be a scheme to get you to give your consent without telling you (or giving you) any indication of how long it will be before you receive your order.

You are signing on the electronic line that you accept any changes. THINK before you ACT. ASK QUESTIONS FIRST! Get assurances on timeline for delivery. ASK if Refunds will still be HONORED.

Don't walk into it blindly like sheeple.

+1111

[S M I L Y]

Hmm logged in.  No where to "Accept"  No popup or anything.

All my orders sitting as "Pending Acceptance"

Look for the 'here' link in the email. You will see a dialog box pop up on the BFL website asking you to confirm after you follow the link.

Yup thats where I went...  no popup.   

[stripykitteh]

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

I asked for a refund of my order for a Single about 5 days ago, citing the fact that the product was being redesigned as being one reason I wanted to cancel (the misleading information on shipping dates on their website being the other). Haven't heard back yet, but I will be reasserting my request for a refund.

[minternj]

 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!
 

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

The other part of what this email is trying to obscure is the fact that if you AGREE, you lose your ability to refund [for said changes]. You the customer have been queried if you accept the changes, and as such, you lose your refund ability due to changes or any conformance differences.

So think before you tap "OK". Ask questions now! Then click.


--------------------

Very slick BFL. Very Slick.

ALSO, PLEASE....ask what the time frame for delivery will be. Get it in writing!

This may be a scheme to get you to give your consent without telling you (or giving you) any indication of how long it will be before you receive your order.

You are signing on the electronic line that you accept any changes. THINK before you ACT. ASK QUESTIONS FIRST! Get assurances on timeline for delivery. ASK if Refunds will still be HONORED.

Don't walk into it blindly like sheeple.

please dont use alternating fonts and sizes. makes me feel liek im reading a ransom note.

[Malawi]

Account server is overloaded at the moment.  I would wait awhile before trying again... you have plenty of time, it's not like your orders will be canceled today or anything.

When, and at what rate are you going to ship them to regular customers?

[Rampion]

we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.

Very dodgy wording, seemingly designed to imply that a faster "confirmation" will result in a more advanced position in the queue, without actually saying so.

Yeah man, that's it... BUY! BUY! BUY!, that's what we are getting all the time from BFL

[TwinTurbo]

What a damn circus act this is! I first had to reset my password. Finally got that to go through, then log in to the site. First time in, no pop-up to accept. I log in again and it finally appears. I click "Accept" and then get another pop-up that says "some text here" [OK]

WTF?!

I click the "OK" and it just shows me the Accept pop up again. I click accept, and the cycle repeats.

EDIT: I hope the hardware underwent more testing than the website. If not, we're all in trouble.

[twmz]

This is what it says in the popup if you get a successful login...

Important Order Information
Dear Butterfly Labs Customer,

Thank you for your patience. Production and shipping of Butterfly Labs Bitforce SC (ASIC) products has begun. Before we proceed with production on your order, there are specification changes and we need your acceptance of these changes before we proceed.

Power consumption on all SC products is higher than we expected which has resulted in changes to the product packaging.


All customers will be shipped the GH/s hashing power they originally ordered.

By clicking the accept button below, you agree to accept product specification changes and pre-order terms as specified on product pages.

If you do not agree to accept these terms, click the Refund to process your order refund now.

[SgtSpike]

I managed to confirm my order. I had to refresh pages sometimes because Cloudflare would kick in. It took a bit, but I did manage to accept and confirm the order is now "Processing".

Hmmm, my order has said "processing" for quite a while.  I can't get in, but I wonder if it'll be asking me for confirmation or not.

It will ask the moment you log in. A popup window will appear. The order status at this point is something along the lines of "Waiting for acceptance"... or something like that. Once you agree, it will go back to "Processing".

Mine didn't.  I finally had the option to upgrade to express shipping a couple of days ago, so I did so.  My status currently is "Upgrade Pending", and previously was "Processing".  Hopefully I don't get a nasty surprise by not being able to confirm my order.

[Malawi]

 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!
 

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

The other part of what this email is trying to obscure is the fact that if you AGREE, you lose your ability to refund. You the customer have been queried if you accept the changes, and as such, you lose your refund ability due to changes or any conformance differences.

So think before you tap "OK". Ask questions now! Then click.


--------------------

Very slick BFL. Very Slick.

Eh ... I might be new to BTC, but AFAIK the preorders were also not subject to refunds, still they have done refunds. That you don't have explicit rights for refunds does not mean that it cannot happen.

My guess is that this is about the power usage and casing that is different than announced when they launched the preorders.

Offc you don't have to think about this as you never ordered or have cancelled your order long ago.

[ocminer]

For me, as an european, its really funny to see that so many americans punch on an american company, preffering an asian company over it..

I'd expect you guys to NOT buy from asia and stand tall with your company.. at least that is what I'm doing..

Here a shot of the popup, which has absolutely nothing to do with your conspiracy theories.. They just make clear what was obvious a few days ago, design has changed, power is over spec.. Nothing special..



Guys.. Calm down.. BFL will ship sooner or later.. Its your choice if you go with the americans or the chinese people.. If you hate one, print yourself a t-shirt with the logo of the other company, wear it and enjoy but stop these nonsense-post like "warning, bfl is the devil and sells your mind to aliens.. dont click "ok", you'll give them your ok to rape your a** at any time they want.. " stop it.. please.. stop it...

[davidspitzer]

 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!
 

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

The other part of what this email is trying to obscure is the fact that if you AGREE, you lose your ability to refund [for said changes]. You the customer have been queried if you accept the changes, and as such, you lose your refund ability due to changes or any conformance differences.

So think before you tap "OK". Ask questions now! Then click.


--------------------

Very slick BFL. Very Slick.

ALSO, PLEASE....ask what the time frame for delivery will be. Get it in writing!

This may be a scheme to get you to give your consent without telling you (or giving you) any indication of how long it will be before you receive your order.

You are signing on the electronic line that you accept any changes. THINK before you ACT. ASK QUESTIONS FIRST! Get assurances on timeline for delivery. ASK if Refunds will still be HONORED.

Don't walk into it blindly like sheeple.

\


While it is true that between two merchants a modification to a contract does not require consideration, such is not the case when one of the parties is a non merchant. Any modification to the sale of an item under the UCC when one or more parties are non merchants requires the modification to be be accompanied with some type of additional consideration

- E.G. In contracts between parties who are not merchants, a modification should be supported by some consideration, which is the exchange of value, or something to solidify an agreement. Courts impose this requirement to prevent Fraud and deception in the modification of contracts. Consideration operates as evidence that the parties have agreed to the modification. Without the requirement of consideration, a party to a contract could declare that the contract should be modified or canceled whenever such a demand was advantageous.

I am going to use the term non-conforming goods. This does not imply they are inferior goods rather that they are different from what was originally specified in the sales contract.

I am pretty sure BFL knows this and the purpose for the confirmation is not to enforce a contract modification. One can accept the new goods or not and get a refund. Not everything is sinister. I would think they want the confirmation to make sure that you want the new config and quantities and not your money back. It would make no sense to accept non-conforming goods and then sue when the option for reimbursement was available. The court would probably think you were crazy, as the only options would be specific performance which would be impossible as perfectly conforming goods do not exist, or restitution, which was available without excepting the non-conforming goods and then suing.

[smoothie]

What a damn circus act this is! I first had to reset my password. Finally got that to go through, then log in to the site. First time in, no pop-up to accept. I log in again and it finally appears. I click "Accept" and then get another pop-up that says "some text here" [OK]

WTF?!

I click the "OK" and it just shows me the Accept pop up again. I click accept, and the cycle repeats.

EDIT: I hope the hardware underwent more testing than the website. If not, we're all in trouble.

I LOLed here.

They didnt even test their shit before releasing the "confirm process"?

hahaha

[PuertoLibre]

 
Final confirmation is required

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.
 
Thank you for your support and we wish you great satisfaction with your product!
 

Uh oh,

Watch out folks!

This is part of the legal process of shipping something that is not perfectly conforming to what you originally purchased.

The above is asking you NOT IF you want to confirm your order....BUT IF you want your order as it has been "redesigned". If you say no, you don't get your order but a refund instead. If you say yes, then you get whatever they have redesigned. So the first logical step is to ask what the changes will be!

The other part of what this email is trying to obscure is the fact that if you AGREE, you lose your ability to refund. You the customer have been queried if you accept the changes, and as such, you lose your refund ability due to changes or any conformance differences.

So think before you tap "OK". Ask questions now! Then click.


--------------------

Very slick BFL. Very Slick.

Eh ... I might be new to BTC, but AFAIK the preorders were also not subject to refunds, still they have done refunds. That you don't have explicit rights for refunds does not mean that it cannot happen.

My guess is that this is about the power usage and casing that is different than announced when they launched the preorders.

Offc you don't have to think about this as you never ordered or have cancelled your order long ago.

Assume absolutely nothing.

You assumptions are not enforceable and they may not be realized by BFL.

GET IT IN WRITING. DO NOT ASSUME what you don't know with absolute certainty.

[ocminer]

GET IT IN WRITING. DO NOT ASSUME what you don't know with absolute certainty.

You did not work for the x-files, don't you ?

[davidspitzer]

I will say  - I wish that the Butterflylabs.com homepage had a more robust hosting platform and service provider. It gives me the mini willies to hear the word confirmation and cancel in the same sentence and then not be able to get to their site.

[k9quaint]

This is fairly straightforward. They promised


but they are delivering



So they need permission to do the switch. If they actually deliver the hash power, I don't think anyone will care the form factor changed. Power consumption is disappointing, but at the current exchange rate and network hash power it is a non-issue. This is actually a sign from BFL that they are acting in a professional fashion to inform their user base.

[PuertoLibre]

This is fairly straightforward. They promised


but they are delivering



So they need permission to do the switch. If they actually deliver the hash power, I don't think anyone will care the form factor changed. Power consumption is disappointing, but at the current exchange rate and network hash power it is a non-issue. This is actually a sign from BFL that they are acting in a professional fashion to inform their user base.

People are ready to assume that if they do accept, they will still have the option to refund.

As a sensible customer, they need to realize that once they accept a change of hardware, they also give consent.

If people are relying on the refund window still being there without asking BFL:

"Hey, if I tap confirm, can I still refund at any time?"

Then they are asking for it to blow up in their face. BFL had little leeway in not giving customers their refund. They are obligated to do so as they have failed to deliver. Now that customers are being queried if they accept the changes, and indicate they still want their order...they are giving consent. Thereby reducing their position in asking for a refund.

People need to wise up and ask BFL (in writing through official statement and official channels) if they will still honor refunds requests after tapping "Confirm Order".

If you don't then, don't be at all surprised if BFL throws back at you the fact that you confirmed your order as a reason to deny any future refunds. You gave consent as of....May 1st 2013 to "changes" and the "status of an order". They also shipped, which means they don't have to offer you a refund anymore.

This is called Disarming the Merchant [from future excuses] and making sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

ASK questions, that is all I am telling BFL customers to do. Then, tap Confirm. Don't tap confirm like idiots on a whim or an impulse.

[smoothie]

For me, as an european, its really funny to see that so many americans punch on an american company, preffering an asian company over it..

I'd expect you guys to NOT buy from asia and stand tall with your company.. at least that is what I'm doing..

Here a shot of the popup, which has absolutely nothing to do with your conspiracy theories.. They just make clear what was obvious a few days ago, design has changed, power is over spec.. Nothing special..



Guys.. Calm down.. BFL will ship sooner or later.. Its your choice if you go with the americans or the chinese people.. If you hate one, print yourself a t-shirt with the logo of the other company, wear it and enjoy but stop these nonsense-post like "warning, bfl is the devil and sells your mind to aliens.. dont click "ok", you'll give them your ok to rape your a** at any time they want.. " stop it.. please.. stop it...

Oh you mean like how PirateAt40 is still going to pay everyone their compounding 7% weekly interest payments?

He must be up to 70,000,000 Bitcoins he owes his investors.

 

[magixx]

How professional:

[elg]

We also wanted to clarify that if you ordered in April after the specs were changed then you will not receive a message to confirm upon logging in. Thank you.

[ocminer]

For me, as an european, its really funny to see that so many americans punch on an american company, preffering an asian company over it..

I'd expect you guys to NOT buy from asia and stand tall with your company.. at least that is what I'm doing..

Here a shot of the popup, which has absolutely nothing to do with your conspiracy theories.. They just make clear what was obvious a few days ago, design has changed, power is over spec.. Nothing special..



Guys.. Calm down.. BFL will ship sooner or later.. Its your choice if you go with the americans or the chinese people.. If you hate one, print yourself a t-shirt with the logo of the other company, wear it and enjoy but stop these nonsense-post like "warning, bfl is the devil and sells your mind to aliens.. dont click "ok", you'll give them your ok to rape your a** at any time they want.. " stop it.. please.. stop it...

Oh you mean like how PirateAt40 is still going to pay everyone their compounding 7% weekly interest payments?

He must be up to 70,000,000 Bitcoins he owes his investors.

 

They're already delivering..

Post something about avalon's 2nd batch "delay" :-P

[smoothie]

For me, as an european, its really funny to see that so many americans punch on an american company, preffering an asian company over it..

I'd expect you guys to NOT buy from asia and stand tall with your company.. at least that is what I'm doing..

Here a shot of the popup, which has absolutely nothing to do with your conspiracy theories.. They just make clear what was obvious a few days ago, design has changed, power is over spec.. Nothing special..



Guys.. Calm down.. BFL will ship sooner or later.. Its your choice if you go with the americans or the chinese people.. If you hate one, print yourself a t-shirt with the logo of the other company, wear it and enjoy but stop these nonsense-post like "warning, bfl is the devil and sells your mind to aliens.. dont click "ok", you'll give them your ok to rape your a** at any time they want.. " stop it.. please.. stop it...

Oh you mean like how PirateAt40 is still going to pay everyone their compounding 7% weekly interest payments?

He must be up to 70,000,000 Bitcoins he owes his investors.

 

They're already delivering..

Post something about avalon's 2nd batch "delay" :-P

Oh you mean the PR units? How many of them were there again? 10? 20?

Oh right and remind me how many outstanding orders BFL has in the queue? 60,000+?

Oh right lol


They called "shipping" as giving a unit to someone at their facility and then leaving the unit at the BFL office.

Dont make me laugh lol

EDIT: Why are we bringing avalon into this discussion? Oh right you expect me to troll them just as much right? No it doesn't work that way. See Avalon has actually DELIVERED a working product to its CUSTOMERS unlike BFL has.

Oh and PR units on the order of 10 or 20 isn't what I would call "fulfilling their obligations to their customers".

ROFL! Fail more please.

[jspielberg]

Peurto --

Your assertion seemed to be that they are dependent on new orders for continuing operation.  I seem to recall you mentioning it was the return of funds that was giving the illusion of strength.  If they stopped honoring refunds, this illusion would be broken, and the pre-order stream would dry up.  I don't see how they are able to stop refunds (no matter how much they state, "all sales are final").

I got my refund a month or so ago, as it was clear they are going to be shipping into the difficulty high tide generated from Avalon and AsicMiner.  But had I been a believer, I don't think I would have any issues with confirming my order at this point.  If they stopped honoring refunds now, it would be give a very strong signal that they are not capable of delivering (something they are obviously trying to avoid).

I do find the timing of this campaign odd given that they just had the bad news about the unusable chip wafer.

[PuertoLibre]

Well folks, you have a choice.

Don't sweat it and do as ocminer says...don't ask questions, just tap that button like a numbskull.

Or do it like I have told you. Make sure they will still honor the refunds in an official statement without restrictions. Then feel free to tap the confirm button.

It's not like I am asking people to do anything super prudent....

[shibaji]

How professional:

I am in the same loop now. Finally it does not confirm anything.

[smoothie]

1. Josh trolling forums and can't directly answer any important questions.

2. News comes out from Josh that their wafer of chips went bad and they need to reorder and are somewhat delayed in getting things organized to start shipping.

3. Mass EMAIL sent out to all preorder customers asking them to CONFIRM their orders and not mention anything about refunds at all.

...I smell panic on BFL's part.

The precedent has been set. If they operated as a ponzi likely they will implode very soon if people decide they are fed up with all the bullshit delays from BFL.

Time is a ticking...

[PuertoLibre]

Peurto --

Your assertion seemed to be that they are dependent on new orders for continuing operation.  I seem to recall you mentioning it was the return of funds that was giving the illusion of strength.  If they stopped honoring refunds, this illusion would be broken, and the pre-order stream would dry up.  I don't see how they are able to stop refunds (no matter how much they state, "all sales are final").

I can't make any assumptions on this, my friend.

Keep this in mind: Does your (or anyones) assumption about what is "the right thing to do" have any bearing on what BFL will "actually" do? No? Then...?

What happens in a customers head is totally independent of what happens at BFL.

Customers always complain because they assume things that aren't actual. When a companies actual policy (or change in policy) contradicts what they thought should happen, they get very upset. They always lose. So I am warning people to do their checks so they don't have to feel that way. Nothing more. Better safe and informed than "sorry".

I got my refund a month or so ago, as it was clear they are going to be shipping into the difficulty high tide generated from Avalon and AsicMiner.  But had I been a believer, I don't think I would have any issues with confirming my order at this point.  If they stopped honoring refunds now, it would be give a very strong signal that they are not capable of delivering (something they are obviously trying to avoid).

I do find the timing of this campaign odd given that they just had the bad news about the unusable chip wafer.

I unfortunately assume the worst when it comes to BFL.

I did my part in warning people just in case the worst is about to spring up on them. I can sleep pretty well tonight about that little bit.

[ThatDGuy]

1. Josh trolling forums and can't directly answer any important questions.

2. News comes out from Josh that their wafer of chips went bad and they need to reorder and are somewhat delayed in getting things organized to start shipping.

3. Mass EMAIL sent out to all preorder customers asking them to CONFIRM their orders and not mention anything about refunds at all.

...I smell panic on BFL's part.

The precedent has been set. If they operated as a ponzi likely they will implode very soon if people decide they are fed up with all the bullshit delays from BFL.

Time is a ticking...

The e-mail explicitly stated that if confirmation of changes was not accepted then you would get a refund:

Please be advised that due to the adjustments described above, we need your confirmation prior to release of your order into the final build queue and on to final delivery.  It may also be a good time to review your purchase altogether relative to the bitcoin market as this is the last opportunity to do so.  If your order is not confirmed, it will be canceled and your money will be refunded.

[willphase]

PuertoLibre - I have an important question for you:

Do you have the red font, green font, large text, bold and underline buttons hotkeyed, if so - how do you do this because I feel like a bitcointalk amateur without this rapid ability when I post.

Will

[shibaji]

I have been able to confirm finally.

[minternj]

I did my part in warning people just in case the worst is about to spring up on them. I can sleep pretty well tonight about that little bit.

You are my hero. So noble and stuff. When are you going outside with a cardboard box asking people to buckle up?

[PuertoLibre]

PuertoLibre - I have an important question for you:

Do you have the red font, green font, large text, bold and underline buttons hotkeyed, if so - how do you do this because I feel like a bitcointalk amateur without this rapid ability when I post.

Will

Simply highlight the text you want to change and tap the buttons at the top. The original highlighted part will assume any particulars in the formatting bar above.

When you want to modify any other text segment simply highlight that instead.

[ocminer]

Just in time, a mail from BitSyncom arrived:

Code:

Lots things to update.

1. We are currently investigating on the three or so shipments that have shown up badly damaged to the customers. They do no appear to be simple delivery damage: they are not dents but some corners of some of the units have been snapped off. It takes a great amount of force to snap 3mm aluminum that's been bolted down with 0.9mm screws in a box with foam padding. We are not ruling out the possibility of sabotage.

In future, when receiving an Avalon package, if there is any rattling sound coming from inside, open the package in front of DHL/EMS and inspect the inside, if there is damage immediately return the package to the sender. The receiver must submit the complaint so us, the shipper can receive this information from DHL/EMS and we can investigate.

Do not worry, even if DHL/EMS does not compensate for the damages, once you send the damaged unit back, we will send you a replacement free of charge.



2. Our new SMT equipment has arrived, it is expected to be tweaked and fully functional by the second week of May. Expect an updated gallery of our facility soon.[b] In the mean time we are going to send out ~20 units[/b] through our new shipping channels and test the waters. [b]We expect to go full throttle once the new SMT line comes online.[/b]



3. We also recently released a new firmware that is our most stabled version yet, it also increases the performance by about 2Gh/s and lowers idle power consumption, see the wiki for full details. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#20130419
 
[b]p.s. few people in the Avalon team is sick, so we are moving rather slow at the moment[/b].

How often did we read that from avalon team now ? They wanted to be "full throttle" how many times now ? 10 ? 20 ? Batch 3 should already be kinda "shipped" ?!

We should make a new sub-forum "troll the asic companys"...

[PuertoLibre]

I did my part in warning people just in case the worst is about to spring up on them. I can sleep pretty well tonight about that little bit.

You are my hero. So noble and stuff. When are you going outside with a cardboard box asking people to buckle up?

That is why I am a Master BFL Shill. (in disguise)

(Master BFL Shill)

[smoothie]

Just in time, a mail from BitSyncom arrived:

Code:

Lots things to update.

1. We are currently investigating on the three or so shipments that have shown up badly damaged to the customers. They do no appear to be simple delivery damage: they are not dents but some corners of some of the units have been snapped off. It takes a great amount of force to snap 3mm aluminum that's been bolted down with 0.9mm screws in a box with foam padding. We are not ruling out the possibility of sabotage.

In future, when receiving an Avalon package, if there is any rattling sound coming from inside, open the package in front of DHL/EMS and inspect the inside, if there is damage immediately return the package to the sender. The receiver must submit the complaint so us, the shipper can receive this information from DHL/EMS and we can investigate.

Do not worry, even if DHL/EMS does not compensate for the damages, once you send the damaged unit back, we will send you a replacement free of charge.



2. Our new SMT equipment has arrived, it is expected to be tweaked and fully functional by the second week of May. Expect an updated gallery of our facility soon.[b] In the mean time we are going to send out ~20 units[/b] through our new shipping channels and test the waters. [b]We expect to go full throttle once the new SMT line comes online.[/b]



3. We also recently released a new firmware that is our most stabled version yet, it also increases the performance by about 2Gh/s and lowers idle power consumption, see the wiki for full details. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#20130419
 
[b]p.s. few people in the Avalon team is sick, so we are moving rather slow at the moment[/b].

How often did we read that from avalon team now ? They wanted to be "full throttle" how many times now ? 10 ? 20 ? Batch 3 should already be kinda "shipped" ?!

We should make a new sub-forum "troll the asic companys"...

Or we could make a sub-forum "kiss bfl's ass if you like the taste of shit" 

[PuertoLibre]

Just in time, a mail from BitSyncom arrived:

Code:

Lots things to update.

1. We are currently investigating on the three or so shipments that have shown up badly damaged to the customers. They do no appear to be simple delivery damage: they are not dents but some corners of some of the units have been snapped off. It takes a great amount of force to snap 3mm aluminum that's been bolted down with 0.9mm screws in a box with foam padding. We are not ruling out the possibility of sabotage.

In future, when receiving an Avalon package, if there is any rattling sound coming from inside, open the package in front of DHL/EMS and inspect the inside, if there is damage immediately return the package to the sender. The receiver must submit the complaint so us, the shipper can receive this information from DHL/EMS and we can investigate.

Do not worry, even if DHL/EMS does not compensate for the damages, once you send the damaged unit back, we will send you a replacement free of charge.



2. Our new SMT equipment has arrived, it is expected to be tweaked and fully functional by the second week of May. Expect an updated gallery of our facility soon.[b] In the mean time we are going to send out ~20 units[/b] through our new shipping channels and test the waters. [b]We expect to go full throttle once the new SMT line comes online.[/b]



3. We also recently released a new firmware that is our most stabled version yet, it also increases the performance by about 2Gh/s and lowers idle power consumption, see the wiki for full details. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#20130419
 
[b]p.s. few people in the Avalon team is sick, so we are moving rather slow at the moment[/b].

How often did we read that from avalon team now ? They wanted to be "full throttle" how many times now ? 10 ? 20 ? Batch 3 should already be kinda "shipped" ?!

We should make a new sub-forum "troll the asic companys"...

Last I heard they are shipping out Batch 2 and 3 at almost the same time with the new high speed machinery.

What is your complaint again? BFL probably can't even use the (really slow) SMT machines they bought.

[minternj]

I did my part in warning people just in case the worst is about to spring up on them. I can sleep pretty well tonight about that little bit.

You are my hero. So noble and stuff. When are you going outside with a cardboard box asking people to buckle up?

That is why I am a Master BFL Shill. (in disguise)

(Master BFL Shill)

You say that like an insult? Come one you can do better than that. Bring up my join date  again.

[ocminer]

Just in time, a mail from BitSyncom arrived:

Code:

Lots things to update.

1. We are currently investigating on the three or so shipments that have shown up badly damaged to the customers. They do no appear to be simple delivery damage: they are not dents but some corners of some of the units have been snapped off. It takes a great amount of force to snap 3mm aluminum that's been bolted down with 0.9mm screws in a box with foam padding. We are not ruling out the possibility of sabotage.

In future, when receiving an Avalon package, if there is any rattling sound coming from inside, open the package in front of DHL/EMS and inspect the inside, if there is damage immediately return the package to the sender. The receiver must submit the complaint so us, the shipper can receive this information from DHL/EMS and we can investigate.

Do not worry, even if DHL/EMS does not compensate for the damages, once you send the damaged unit back, we will send you a replacement free of charge.



2. Our new SMT equipment has arrived, it is expected to be tweaked and fully functional by the second week of May. Expect an updated gallery of our facility soon.[b] In the mean time we are going to send out ~20 units[/b] through our new shipping channels and test the waters. [b]We expect to go full throttle once the new SMT line comes online.[/b]



3. We also recently released a new firmware that is our most stabled version yet, it also increases the performance by about 2Gh/s and lowers idle power consumption, see the wiki for full details. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#20130419
 
[b]p.s. few people in the Avalon team is sick, so we are moving rather slow at the moment[/b].

How often did we read that from avalon team now ? They wanted to be "full throttle" how many times now ? 10 ? 20 ? Batch 3 should already be kinda "shipped" ?!

We should make a new sub-forum "troll the asic companys"...

Or we could make a sub-forum "kiss bfl's ass if you like the taste of shit" 

or "kiss avalon team's ass if you like the taste of shit" ;-)) (aka "kiss <insertyourasiccompanyhere> ass if you like the taste of shit..."

[PuertoLibre]

I did my part in warning people just in case the worst is about to spring up on them. I can sleep pretty well tonight about that little bit.

You are my hero. So noble and stuff. When are you going outside with a cardboard box asking people to buckle up?

That is why I am a Master BFL Shill. (in disguise)

(Master BFL Shill)

You say that like an insult? Come one you can do better than that. Bring up my join date  again.

I love all my BFL children. You are not my favorite, but certainly not my least favorite.

By the way, please buy more. Then my opinion might change. My love is directly proportional to your investment in BFL.

(Master BFL Shill)

[minternj]

Aww thats not an insult at all. Kinda sweet actually. Remind me again, which asic do you own and why are you posting in the asic forum?

[Malawi]

PuertoLibre - I have an important question for you:

Do you have the red font, green font, large text, bold and underline buttons hotkeyed, if so - how do you do this because I feel like a bitcointalk amateur without this rapid ability when I post.

Will

Simply highlight the text you want to change and tap the buttons at the top. The original highlighted part will assume any particulars in the formatting bar above.

When you want to modify any other text segment simply highlight that instead.

Finally I can post like a noob.. :-))))

Can I make the text blink??????????

[DPoS]

All that jumbo and no delivery date or daily # of units shipping

and asking you to agree to new specs without giving detail of said specs..  

[minternj]

PuertoLibre - I have an important question for you:

Do you have the red font, green font, large text, bold and underline buttons hotkeyed, if so - how do you do this because I feel like a bitcointalk amateur without this rapid ability when I post.

Will

Simply highlight the text you want to change and tap the buttons at the top. The original highlighted part will assume any particulars in the formatting bar above.

When you want to modify any other text segment simply highlight that instead.

Finally I can post like a noob.. :-))))

Can I make the text blink??????????

Holy crap i mistook you for the libre-anime guy for a sec. You forgot to trash BFL while doing the ransom type though. Then you'll be all set to be a troll clone.

[smoothie]

Just in time, a mail from BitSyncom arrived:

Code:

Lots things to update.

1. We are currently investigating on the three or so shipments that have shown up badly damaged to the customers. They do no appear to be simple delivery damage: they are not dents but some corners of some of the units have been snapped off. It takes a great amount of force to snap 3mm aluminum that's been bolted down with 0.9mm screws in a box with foam padding. We are not ruling out the possibility of sabotage.

In future, when receiving an Avalon package, if there is any rattling sound coming from inside, open the package in front of DHL/EMS and inspect the inside, if there is damage immediately return the package to the sender. The receiver must submit the complaint so us, the shipper can receive this information from DHL/EMS and we can investigate.

Do not worry, even if DHL/EMS does not compensate for the damages, once you send the damaged unit back, we will send you a replacement free of charge.



2. Our new SMT equipment has arrived, it is expected to be tweaked and fully functional by the second week of May. Expect an updated gallery of our facility soon.[b] In the mean time we are going to send out ~20 units[/b] through our new shipping channels and test the waters. [b]We expect to go full throttle once the new SMT line comes online.[/b]



3. We also recently released a new firmware that is our most stabled version yet, it also increases the performance by about 2Gh/s and lowers idle power consumption, see the wiki for full details. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#20130419
 
[b]p.s. few people in the Avalon team is sick, so we are moving rather slow at the moment[/b].

How often did we read that from avalon team now ? They wanted to be "full throttle" how many times now ? 10 ? 20 ? Batch 3 should already be kinda "shipped" ?!

We should make a new sub-forum "troll the asic companys"...

Or we could make a sub-forum "kiss bfl's ass if you like the taste of shit" 

or "kiss avalon team's ass if you like the taste of shit" ;-)) (aka "kiss <insertyourasiccompanyhere> ass if you like the taste of shit..."

Or "get your own material and stop biting off of other people's"??

LOL so fail again.

[ocminer]

Finally I can post like a noob.. :-))))

Can I make the text blink??????????

Puerto ?? is that you ;-) :-P

[PuertoLibre]

All that jumbo and no delivery date or daily # of units shipping

and asking you to agree to new specs without giving detail of said specs..  

http://bfl.ptz.ro/

[Inaba]

The "Some text here" appears to be a javascript error on older browsers, I believe.

I have no idea where this ridiculous rumor about a broken wafer got started.  One of the trolls making stuff up again, I'd wager.

[magixx]

Chrome 26 must be really old...

[Inaba]

Hmm, not sure where it's being generated from then.  I'm not sure how to trigger it locally here.

[davidspitzer]

The "Some text here" appears to be a javascript error on older browsers, I believe.

I have no idea where this ridiculous rumor about a broken wafer got started.  One of the trolls making stuff up again, I'd wager.

I think Jody said she dropped her Nilla Wafer in her Milk and then it just took off from their...

[jorgebuck]

Hmm, not sure where it's being generated from then.  I'm not sure how to trigger it locally here.

If we're not getting any dialogue box at all, is that still just server overload or what?

[davidspitzer]

The site is saturated but I did get through (using Chrome 26.blah.blah blah blah) and I was able to confirm without getting the spurious text

[Morblias]

Hmm, not sure where it's being generated from then.  I'm not sure how to trigger it locally here.

It probably generates that message when the site dies when they tried to hit accept:
https://i.imgur.com/PUHbXgN.png

If we're not getting any dialogue box at all, is that still just server overload or what?

When I hit accept, it didn't show me that dialogue box and disappeared and worked fine. My orders changed to processing.

[davidspitzer]

The "Some text here" appears to be a javascript error on older browsers, I believe.

I have no idea where this ridiculous rumor about a broken wafer got started.  One of the trolls making stuff up again, I'd wager.

nooooooooo!!!!!!

[jorgebuck]

Hmm, not sure where it's being generated from then.  I'm not sure how to trigger it locally here.

It probably generates that message when the site dies when they tried to hit accept:
https://i.imgur.com/PUHbXgN.png

If we're not getting any dialogue box at all, is that still just server overload or what?

When I hit accept, it didn't show me that dialogue box and disappeared and worked fine. My orders changed to processing.

My order says processing but I never clicked accept on anything, no box appears when I log on. I'm pretty sure my order has been at processing the whole time though so I still dont think mine is confirmed.

[Inaba]

The "Some text here" appears to be a javascript error on older browsers, I believe.

I have no idea where this ridiculous rumor about a broken wafer got started.  One of the trolls making stuff up again, I'd wager.

I think Jody said she dropped her Nilla Wafer in her Milk and then it just took off from their...

Probably a #@$#@ chicken in the wires.  CHICKS IN THE WIRE MAN!  CHICK IN THE WIRE!

[magixx]

How exactly do you confirm that the acceptance has gone through?

[Inaba]

Your order status should say processing I believe.

[repentance]

Exactly what new specifications are people being asked to agree to?  The product page for the new 50 GH unit gives fuck all in the way of specs.  Is it even legal to sell an electrical product in the US without specifying power consumption?

[mojod]

Exactly what new specifications are people being asked to agree to?  The product page for the new 50 GH unit gives fuck all in the way of specs.  Is it even legal to sell an electrical product in the US without specifying power consumption?

https://i.imgur.com/YI8vPM8.png

[Inaba]

Popup issue should be fixed now.

[miter_myles]

so have any of the current "customers" with actual hardware in their hands accepted these changes?  (not talking dev users)... or was the intent for all current hardware in hands of "customers" considered dev boards?

[repentance]

Exactly what new specifications are people being asked to agree to?  The product page for the new 50 GH unit gives fuck all in the way of specs.  Is it even legal to sell an electrical product in the US without specifying power consumption?

So power draw is not actually specified beyond being "higher".  Which brings me back to my original question of whether you can legally sell an electrical product in the US without giving power specs or other information about which national and international electrical and other safety standards it meets?

This could actually present a problem for international customers.

[mojod]

Exactly what new specifications are people being asked to agree to?  The product page for the new 50 GH unit gives fuck all in the way of specs.  Is it even legal to sell an electrical product in the US without specifying power consumption?

https://i.imgur.com/YI8vPM8.png

So power draw is not actually specified beyond being "higher".  Which brings me back to my original question of whether you can legally sell an electrical product in the US without giving power specs or other information about which national and international electrical and other safety standards it meets?

This could actually present a problem for international customers.

Yes you can sell without CE/FCC for unintentional radiators, and even self certifiy if a complaint is filed, and an investigation is launched, and the product is found to not be compliant, they could be forced to halt production, then fall in line with part 15 requirements.

Source: I googled your question.

[repentance]

Yes you can sell without CE/FCC for unintentional radiators, and even self certifiy if a complaint is filed, and an investigation is launched, and the product is found to not be compliant, they could be forced to halt production, then fall in line with part 15 requirements.

Source: I googled your question.

I just checked the compliance marks which are acceptable for electrical goods coming into my state (NSW, Australia).  CE is not sufficient.

Overseas Certificates of Approval and approval marks, such as the CE mark, are not acceptable in Australia.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Businesses/Product_safety/Electrical_articles/Safe_electrical_goods.html#Acceptable_approval_marks

[erk]

Yes you can sell without CE/FCC for unintentional radiators, and even self certifiy if a complaint is filed, and an investigation is launched, and the product is found to not be compliant, they could be forced to halt production, then fall in line with part 15 requirements.

Source: I googled your question.

I just checked the compliance marks which are acceptable for electrical goods coming into my state (NSW, Australia).  CE is not sufficient.

Overseas Certificates of Approval and approval marks, such as the CE mark, are not acceptable in Australia.

http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Businesses/Product_safety/Electrical_articles/Safe_electrical_goods.html#Acceptable_approval_marks

The mining hardware doesn't directly connect to the electrical supply, the power pack does, so it is the item that has to be certified, and you could simple go to the shop an buy one locally that is certified if necessary for insurance or whatever.

UL certification seems to be accepted in most of Australia.

You could run the device of a battery and thus bypass the definition in the regulations

[shmadz]

does any one know the dimensions of the 5 GH/s miner vs the "little single" 25 GH/s miner? actually, dimensions of all the products would be nice info to have...

[repentance]

The mining hardware doesn't directly connect to the electrical supply, the power pack does, so it is the item that has to be certified, and you could simple go to the shop an buy one locally that is certified if necessary for insurance or whatever.

My laptop (Toshiba, made in China) doesn't connect directly to the power supply, either, but it still has the relevant Australian certification mark (the power supply - which obviously ships to more countries - has about 15 certification marks on it for various countries).  

Even my solar powered Christmas lights and my aquarium pump which draws a whole 7 watts have the power specifications stamped on them.  My digital camera and it's charger and my mobile phone and its charger also have compliance marks on them.  In fact, I can't find a single thing in my house which connects to the electrical supply even indirectly which doesn't have the power specifications stamped on it - which makes me very inclined to believe that it's a requirement of the Australian standard.

[k9quaint]

The "Some text here" appears to be a javascript error on older browsers, I believe.

I have no idea where this ridiculous rumor about a broken wafer got started.  One of the trolls making stuff up again, I'd wager.

I think people got it from what you said in the shoutbox over at butterflylabs.com
Pitty: so that bfl picture of the big wafer - it went in the bin ?
Josh: Yeah, that one was mostly trashed.

Here is a thread about it on your forums:
https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/2219-ls-single-update-josh.html

But you are right about one thing, a troll made up some stuff. 

[stripykitteh]

Hmm, not sure where it's being generated from then.  I'm not sure how to trigger it locally here.

It probably generates that message when the site dies when they tried to hit accept:
https://i.imgur.com/PUHbXgN.png

If we're not getting any dialogue box at all, is that still just server overload or what?

When I hit accept, it didn't show me that dialogue box and disappeared and worked fine. My orders changed to processing.

My order says processing but I never clicked accept on anything, no box appears when I log on. I'm pretty sure my order has been at processing the whole time though so I still dont think mine is confirmed.

I am in the same situation. No pop-up, but my order shows as 'Processing'. I actually asked for a refund 5 days ago and haven't had a response from BFL. I can't ask for a refund via the pop-up. They haven't responded to my emails. Next step will be to ask Paypal to lean on them.

[PuertoLibre]

Hmm, not sure where it's being generated from then.  I'm not sure how to trigger it locally here.

It probably generates that message when the site dies when they tried to hit accept:
https://i.imgur.com/PUHbXgN.png

If we're not getting any dialogue box at all, is that still just server overload or what?

When I hit accept, it didn't show me that dialogue box and disappeared and worked fine. My orders changed to processing.

My order says processing but I never clicked accept on anything, no box appears when I log on. I'm pretty sure my order has been at processing the whole time though so I still dont think mine is confirmed.

I am in the same situation. No pop-up, but my order shows as 'Processing'. I actually asked for a refund 5 days ago and haven't had a response from BFL. I can't ask for a refund via the pop-up. They haven't responded to my emails. Next step will be to ask Paypal to lean on them.

[Cablez]

At least something interesting came from that email.  New pic of single--->>

[optimator]

So the coffee cup goes in those holes? It's like a his and hers coffee warmer.

[Bogart]

Sure looks like a box of fans to me.

So, uh, are those both intakes on the sides, and the exhaust is on the top, like with the FPGA Singles?  They need to move the top fan shroud up so it's even with the edges of the larger fan shrouds.

[Bogart]

Just saw their cute toll-free number on their site now:

CALL US: 1-800-809-MINE (6463)

I'd been thinking they should have 1-800-BFL-RIGS for some time now.  That would be cooler.

I also saw that they'll want an extra $210 for the "express [domestic] shipping" upgrade on 2 Jalapeños (basic shipping cost me $14).  No thanks.  An extra $21 would be reasonable, but $210 is just gouging.

[Tamerz]

Sure looks like a box of fans to me.

So, uh, are those both intakes on the sides, and the exhaust is on the top, like with the FPGA Singles?  They need to move the top fan shroud up so it's even with the edges of the larger fan shrouds.

My guess is the two side fans will be push/pull and the tops blow straight down.

[hardpick]

Hmm logged in.  No where to "Accept"  No popup or anything.

All my orders sitting as "Pending Acceptance"

try with firefox

[Inaba]

If you have NoScript or other script blocker, it will prevent the popup.

[YipYip]

If you have NoScript or other script blocker, it will prevent the popup.

If u live in the real world this will prevent delivery as well !

Josh's fantasy world of "swarms of locusts" delivery options will have your unit to you tommorow  !

[cpunks]

Confirmation process worked fine here, and on a fairly unusual browser (Mozilla Seamonkey 2.17). No script blocking tools installed.

[roy7]

If you have NoScript or other script blocker, it will prevent the popup.

I didn't confirm (no popup) but I'm already in "processing" status. Is this because I only ordered recently (after the price increase) and so I don't actually need to re-confirm anything?

[Deafboy]

Is this because I only ordered recently?

Yes

[erk]

At least something interesting came from that email.  New pic of single--->>

I take it that's the 50GHs unit.

That's like 75% of the performance of an Avalon in such a tiny case. No wonder it's got 4 fans!

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Account server is overloaded at the moment.  I would wait awhile before trying again... you have plenty of time, it's not like your orders will be canceled today or anything.

Thank you, Josh. It's a shame that one little email and a site running a tad slow merits starting another thread to diss BFL. Get a life people!

(Commander BFL_Shill)

[CanaryInTheMine]

Exactly what new specifications are people being asked to agree to?  The product page for the new 50 GH unit gives fuck all in the way of specs.  Is it even legal to sell an electrical product in the US without specifying power consumption?

This talk of UL/FCC is nonsense... why do you think people use external power supplies???  Because they don't want to deal with UL.

[jorgebuck]

If you have NoScript or other script blocker, it will prevent the popup.

I didn't confirm (no popup) but I'm already in "processing" status. Is this because I only ordered recently (after the price increase) and so I don't actually need to re-confirm anything?

same situation here, tried on multiple browsers many times and no pop-ups but says processing but also ordered recently. confirmation on whether or not this is the case by Josh would be nice before a fill bfl's inbox with confirmation requests

[Inaba]

If you're in processing status, you're fine.  IF you ordered after April 3rd 2013, you don't need to confirm.

[YipYip]

If you're in processing status, you're fine.  IF you ordered after April 3rd 2013, you don't need to confirm.

If u ordered after April 3rd you already accepted no refunds and say goodbye to your money .....

Acceptance is the final stage of being ripped off by BFL

[Syke]

If you have NoScript or other script blocker, it will prevent the popup.

I didn't confirm (no popup) but I'm already in "processing" status. Is this because I only ordered recently (after the price increase) and so I don't actually need to re-confirm anything?

I suggest you contact BFL directly and ignore anything that Inaba says with regards to BFL.

BFL does not participate in Bitcontroll.org, sorry.  I don't represent anything but myself here.

[jorgebuck]

If you're in processing status, you're fine.  IF you ordered after April 3rd 2013, you don't need to confirm.

thank you josh, good to know

[stripykitteh]

If you're in processing status, you're fine.  IF you ordered after April 3rd 2013, you don't need to confirm.

Oh no, that's not right. You didn't change the power and size specs of the 50GH/s miner until last week. People who ordered between the 3rd and last week should have to confirm or be offered a refund as well.

[pixel75]

This is what I see when log into the web site:

Important Order Information
Dear Butterfly Labs Customer,

Thank you for your patience. Production and shipping of Butterfly Labs Bitforce SC (ASIC) products has begun. Before we proceed with production on your order, there are specification changes and we need your acceptance of these changes before we proceed.

Power consumption on all SC products is higher than we expected which has resulted in changes to the product packaging.

    60 GH/s 'Single' units are being shipped in a rectangular case about double the size of the cube.

    All customers will be shipped the GH/s hashing power they originally ordered.

    By clicking the accept button below, you agree to accept product specification changes and pre-order terms as specified on product pages.

    If you do not agree to accept these terms, click the Refund to process your order refund now.

[Beans]

Have they even said where to mail the fpga's yet? I waited 3 weeks to get a reply about what the address is, all they gave me was a link to their forums. Worthless customer support.

[Red_Evil]

What is now with the Delivery Estimate ? For JUNE and JULE last Year ? After Confirm the new Terms ?

[Frizz23]

Mother of god! How is this little thing supposed to dissipate 300 Watt of heat?

At least something interesting came from that email.  New pic of single--->>

You all know how big 7970 heatsinks are - and they are designed to handle "only" 250 Watt.

[minternj]

Mother of god! How is this little thing supposed to dissipate 300 Watt of heat?

From the pic, you extrapolated :
#1 It uses 300w
#2 Heat dissipation properties of the heatsinks

HOLY SHIT someone give sherlock here a fuckin job at the fbi. We shoulda deployed to you look for bin laden mr. Colombo.

[mitak64]

It's not extrapolation, just simple facts and some math.
A 5GH/s Jala is ~30 watts (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).
The box contains 2x25GH/s little singles (obviously).
So 50GH/s = 300 watts

[minternj]

It's not extrapolation, just simple facts and some math.
A 5GH/s Jala is ~30 watts (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).
The box contains 2x25GH/s little singles (obviously).
So 50GH/s = 300 watts

Look up extrapolation in the dictionary. You are estimating based one a jalapeno, which used to be the little single board. These are different boards going in. Could be more power, could be less. But to say 300 as a firm number is an extrapolation.

Please don't feed the trolls.

[erk]

It's not extrapolation, just simple facts and some math.
A 5GH/s Jala is ~30 watts (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).
The box contains 2x25GH/s little singles (obviously).
So 50GH/s = 300 watts

You don't know how many ASICs are on each board, or the clocks that they are running at, you are just assuming it's similar and extrapolating.

[ModusPwnd]

It's not extrapolation, just simple facts and some math.
A 5GH/s Jala is ~30 watts (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).
The box contains 2x25GH/s little singles (obviously).
So 50GH/s = 300 watts

You don't know how many ASICs are on each board, or the clocks that they are running at, you are just assuming it's similar and extrapolating.

You say that likes its a bad thing...  This kind of extrapolation is done all the time.  Its a first order approximation.

[Malawi]

It's not extrapolation, just simple facts and some math.
A 5GH/s Jala is ~30 watts (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).
The box contains 2x25GH/s little singles (obviously).
So 50GH/s = 300 watts

Look up extrapolation in the dictionary. You are estimating based one a jalapeno, which used to be the little single board. These are different boards going in. Could be more power, could be less. But to say 300 as a firm number is an extrapolation.

Please don't feed the trolls.

Not to mention that a tripple-slot board is about half the height of a classic coffee-mug.

[minternj]

Not to mention that a tripple-slot board is about half the height of a classic coffee-mug.

Why should that be mentioned? Missing your jist my man.

[Malawi]

Not to mention that a tripple-slot board is about half the height of a classic coffee-mug.

Why should that be mentioned? Missing your jist my man.

It means that the heatsinks at the singles are probably more or less twice as big as they might look like.

My guess is that they are both about the same size as the heatsink of my 9550's that draw 200W

[minternj]

And what are the implications of that? Or are you just making an observation?

[ModusPwnd]

And what are the implications of that? Or are you just making an observation?

The implication is obvious.  Those heat sinks may in fact be able to dissipate 300W.

[Malawi]

And what are the implications of that? Or are you just making an observation?

It was a reference to the post from  Frizz23 "Mother of god! How is this little thing supposed to dissipate 300 Watt of heat?" - and your reply to that.

I was merely pointing out that his extrapolation about the heatsinks, who were probably based on direct comparison of the two pictures that are scaled differently, making the card look almost as big as the single.
IOW- There is really no reason to believe that the heatsinks are not up to the job.

Ahh.. The joy of using my second language.

[CanaryInTheMine]

It's not extrapolation, just simple facts and some math.
A 5GH/s Jala is ~30 watts (measured with a Kill-A-Watt).
The box contains 2x25GH/s little singles (obviously).
So 50GH/s = 300 watts

you're assuming that there's a linear extrapolation here... interesting...

[Red_Evil]

Haha and now ?
Looks like ?

[wsoei]

http://i.imm.io/14JwH.png

Haha and now ?
Looks like ?

So both will be manufactured, equally, slowly.

[wrenchmonkey]

The mining hardware doesn't directly connect to the electrical supply, the power pack does, so it is the item that has to be certified, and you could simple go to the shop an buy one locally that is certified if necessary for insurance or whatever.

My laptop (Toshiba, made in China) doesn't connect directly to the power supply, either, but it still has the relevant Australian certification mark (the power supply - which obviously ships to more countries - has about 15 certification marks on it for various countries).  

Even my solar powered Christmas lights and my aquarium pump which draws a whole 7 watts have the power specifications stamped on them.  My digital camera and it's charger and my mobile phone and its charger also have compliance marks on them.  In fact, I can't find a single thing in my house which connects to the electrical supply even indirectly which doesn't have the power specifications stamped on it - which makes me very inclined to believe that it's a requirement of the Australian standard.

Your laptop puts off intentional and unintentional radiation. It has a screen, and it has a wireless card. Both of which make it a COMPLETELY different animal from a mere peripheral, which the Jalapeno is...

[jspielberg]

The extrapolation is a valid approximation.

If they were using a significantly different board between the the microsingle 5Gh/s unit and the 25Gh/s unit, then all bets would be off...  But BFL themselves said that they are using the same single sc board for the 5, 25 and 50 models.

Soooo... ~300 watts is accurate for the 60, and I would surmise that BFL would do some kind of testing (once they get the 25 and 50 running) to ascertain if they need a new case and heatsink/fan arrangement is adequate.  If it isn't, they will redesign it until it is adequate.  One thing about BFL seems certain that they aren't going to ship a product that isn't perfect.

Unfortunately perfect takes time.... lots of time.

[smoothie]

At least something interesting came from that email.  New pic of single--->>

All I see is a carrot on the end of a stick that they keep touting to get you to not request a refund.

[minternj]

I see a coffee mug and a case with fans and heatsinks on a white table. Maybe you should get that checked out by a psychiatrist with some Rorschach tests.

[minternj]

 But BFL themselves said that they are using the same single sc board for the 5, 25 and 50 models.

Where. Last i heard they have new board revisions coming in.

[k9quaint]

 But BFL themselves said that they are using the same single sc board for the 5, 25 and 50 models.

Where. Last i heard they have new board revisions coming in.

Those two statements are not mutually exclusive. They have new boards coming in, and still might use the same boards for all 3.

[mgio]

I see a coffee mug and a case with fans and heatsinks on a white table. Maybe you should get that checked out by a psychiatrist with some Rorschach tests.

The coffee mug doesn't even have coffee in it!!

Not a good sign.

[minternj]

 But BFL themselves said that they are using the same single sc board for the 5, 25 and 50 models.

Where. Last i heard they have new board revisions coming in.

Those two statements are not mutually exclusive. They have new boards coming in, and still might use the same boards for all 3.

That's not what he said. He said they are using the same. That's a declarative statement. Mine was purposefully vague, as are the details.

[k9quaint]

 But BFL themselves said that they are using the same single sc board for the 5, 25 and 50 models.

Where. Last i heard they have new board revisions coming in.

Those two statements are not mutually exclusive. They have new boards coming in, and still might use the same boards for all 3.

That's not what he said. He said they are using the same. That's a declarative statement. Mine was purposefully vague, as are the details.

The bolded statement is correct. I can produce a quote from Josh.
What BFL is *actually* doing is irrelevant and impossible to know until after they ship in bulk.

[minternj]

 But BFL themselves said that they are using the same single sc board for the 5, 25 and 50 models.

Where. Last i heard they have new board revisions coming in.

Those two statements are not mutually exclusive. They have new boards coming in, and still might use the same boards for all 3.

That's not what he said. He said they are using the same. That's a declarative statement. Mine was purposefully vague, as are the details.

The bolded statement is correct. I can produce a quote from Josh.
What BFL is *actually* doing is irrelevant and impossible to know until after they ship in bulk.

How is it correct, when they haven't shipped the 25 or 50, or actually said this in a statement? They have said they are getting new boards in which is the info i gave.

Thats why i asked wehre they said that, if im wrong i wanted to see where.

[Cluster2k]

Anyone know which order number BFL is up to in terms of shipping?  I recall reading that the earliest order numbers from June 2012 are somewhere in the 2000 range.  I can understand BFL being cagey about not telling how many they've shipped (for fear of tipping off the competition as to their production capacity and competency), but I would expect end customers to spill the beans once they've got theirs.

[hardpick]

Anyone know which order number BFL is up to in terms of shipping?  I recall reading that the earliest order numbers from June 2012 are somewhere in the 2000 range.  I can understand BFL being cagey about not telling how many they've shipped (for fear of tipping off the competition as to their production capacity and competency), but I would expect end customers to spill the beans once they've got theirs.

I think they started at 1558 ---  but are only shipping  5 GH miner -- so could be above 2000 by now

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Account server is overloaded at the moment.  I would wait awhile before trying again... you have plenty of time, it's not like your orders will be canceled today or anything.

Ironically, supposedly the server was overloaded due to all the people wanting to make sure their orders weren't canceled. Today, even more people visit their site demanding just the opposite, yet the server is working just fine.