The reason that keeps me from investing in bitcoin

[cafucafucafu]

I think that the mining industry in bitcoin will soon be monopolised by China and other places where  electricity is super cheap. The vision of bitcoin was meant to be what you stated, for sure, but bitcoin has been transformed into something else.

This is where I believe that there is a window of time of 2-3 years (but probably less than 2 years) where BTC must establish itself as a mainstream currency of the masses that can be traded on FOREX and justify the loftiest of predictions on its future price.  If this doesn't happen in this timeframe, another altcoin (probably government backed...maybe initially backed by gold?) will emerge that will be accepted by the mainstream and FOREX markets.  That's actually another point of debate that people miss...just because BTC was around for years already doesn't necessarily mean that it will last for the same amount of time in the future going forward.  Of the 1000 or altcoins out there I predict that the majority will disappear much like companies in the dot-bomb era.  As of now it will be a race forward to see which currencies do the right things at the right times that makes them survive and go to the next level.  As much as people want to believe the contrary, BTC is not Coca-Cola when it comes to brand recognition.  Relatively speaking they are not even in the same Universe.

From where I'm sitting, this is where the idea of Tulip-mania creeps in.  In the case of cryptos, things happen so fast and due to their completely virtual valuation, things could be uglier than when Tulip bulbs went from a value worth an estate...to whatever tulip bulbs have sold for over time.  This idea of "buy and hold for years" echoed on this forum like gospel shows how little so many understand about investing and valuation of their investment.  And I'd bet that most of these people claim to be experts in BTC and other altcoins.  Those are the first people who will panic in a very bad way.

Yes, that is a very nice breakdown of what I said and I do agree with you. Tulip-mania (For people who don't know, he is referring to the first major financial bubble) seems to be present with Bitcoin and will only keep on being present unless Bitcoin establishes itself as a mainstream currency, useable in real life and digital situations. There are already project, for example cryptopay, which makes this a reality, but to we need to make Bitcoin itself, with no other outliers, useable in real life situations. Right now it is just too hard.

Even if the price of BTC crashes back down to $500-600 (regardless of it remaining the most valuable crypto per coin) I think that this will put a chilling effect on its specific place in the market where it trades in that range for a long period of time, just like the first time it was above $1000.  The fanatics will insist that it will come back...but I think the party will be over should this come to pass.  I believe that the smart money will cash out should it fall below what I said in my first post above and look for alternatives.  I believe that everyone here is correct on most of what they are saying...just that I think that the tortoise that wins this race will be not be the hare on which most are placing their bets.

I totally agree with what you just said there and will add some points of my own.
If bitcoin does drop to say 500-600, firstly I have lost a bunch of money, but there will be good in it. Right not transaction fees are the biggest reason that prevents Bitcoin from going mainstream, would you agree? If bitcoin did drop that low I wouldn't mind paying 10 cents in fees for a 10 dollar meal.

Maybe if Bitcoin forks again or the price drops again, we will be able to make Bitcoin mainstream.

[cafucafucafu]

Definitely bitcoin has come to a very strong currency as of this time and it has it's own independent value in terms of it's price value. One of the best reason why we invest for this currency,  because you remain anonymous to the real world of physical money; you now have the digital assets which you can use for your future financial growth.

This is fairly basic question when talking about Bitcoin. Being anonymous is always useful, especially if you like to participate in illegal activities, but you forgot about something. Cash is still super anonymous since it can't be caught online, unless that cash has an online presence.

Say I wanted to buy something, I would arrange a chat with someone with the instructions: Meet me here and this time. I would then drop off my money and then receive my goods.

Other cryptos also have anonymity, and some even better than bitcoin.

[Realist247]

I think that the mining industry in bitcoin will soon be monopolised by China and other places where  electricity is super cheap. The vision of bitcoin was meant to be what you stated, for sure, but bitcoin has been transformed into something else.

This is where I believe that there is a window of time of 2-3 years (but probably less than 2 years) where BTC must establish itself as a mainstream currency of the masses that can be traded on FOREX and justify the loftiest of predictions on its future price.  If this doesn't happen in this timeframe, another altcoin (probably government backed...maybe initially backed by gold?) will emerge that will be accepted by the mainstream and FOREX markets.  That's actually another point of debate that people miss...just because BTC was around for years already doesn't necessarily mean that it will last for the same amount of time in the future going forward.  Of the 1000 or altcoins out there I predict that the majority will disappear much like companies in the dot-bomb era.  As of now it will be a race forward to see which currencies do the right things at the right times that makes them survive and go to the next level.  As much as people want to believe the contrary, BTC is not Coca-Cola when it comes to brand recognition.  Relatively speaking they are not even in the same Universe.

From where I'm sitting, this is where the idea of Tulip-mania creeps in.  In the case of cryptos, things happen so fast and due to their completely virtual valuation, things could be uglier than when Tulip bulbs went from a value worth an estate...to whatever tulip bulbs have sold for over time.  This idea of "buy and hold for years" echoed on this forum like gospel shows how little so many understand about investing and valuation of their investment.  And I'd bet that most of these people claim to be experts in BTC and other altcoins.  Those are the first people who will panic in a very bad way.

Yes, that is a very nice breakdown of what I said and I do agree with you. Tulip-mania (For people who don't know, he is referring to the first major financial bubble) seems to be present with Bitcoin and will only keep on being present unless Bitcoin establishes itself as a mainstream currency, useable in real life and digital situations. There are already project, for example cryptopay, which makes this a reality, but to we need to make Bitcoin itself, with no other outliers, useable in real life situations. Right now it is just too hard.

Even if the price of BTC crashes back down to $500-600 (regardless of it remaining the most valuable crypto per coin) I think that this will put a chilling effect on its specific place in the market where it trades in that range for a long period of time, just like the first time it was above $1000.  The fanatics will insist that it will come back...but I think the party will be over should this come to pass.  I believe that the smart money will cash out should it fall below what I said in my first post above and look for alternatives.  I believe that everyone here is correct on most of what they are saying...just that I think that the tortoise that wins this race will be not be the hare on which most are placing their bets.

I totally agree with what you just said there and will add some points of my own.
If bitcoin does drop to say 500-600, firstly I have lost a bunch of money, but there will be good in it. Right not transaction fees are the biggest reason that prevents Bitcoin from going mainstream, would you agree? If bitcoin did drop that low I wouldn't mind paying 10 cents in fees for a 10 dollar meal.

Maybe if Bitcoin forks again or the price drops again, we will be able to make Bitcoin mainstream.

In my experience it has been transaction fees that keep those with the means/cash on hand to not even want to speculate on it...myself included (unless the price falls really soon and enough to justify a long position).  They cannot, as I cannot, wrap their minds around it being of any use to the average person, especially in the majority of the non-Western world where a $2-3 transaction fee can represent anywhere between a day to 1/4 of a days wages.  Imagine the hundreds of millions of Chinese that make about $12-15 per day when faced with even a $1 transaction fee.  It's just not practical.  Even most people in the West would opt for other means of payment rather than being assessed with a fee on top of the taxes that they are already paying (and are probably not happy about, especially with the 12-20% VATs out there).  The ONLY way I see BTC becoming competitive on a masses scale is if the merchant absorbs the fee.  Merchants will do this if only if they believe that it will increase their sales.  But the problem is that margins are so razor thin in some industries, like restaurants, that adding an additional 1-2% on top of 3-4% Visa/Mastercard fees will be a deal breaker.  The crypto that wins this race will get a company like Visa to absorb the cost so that neither the customer nor the merchant feels the pain of the additional fee.  So you're right...this is a huge hurdle...probably the biggest of all....and a major deal between a cryto and a credit card company will make or break pretty much everyone currently in this sphere IMO.

[cafucafucafu]

I think that the mining industry in bitcoin will soon be monopolised by China and other places where  electricity is super cheap. The vision of bitcoin was meant to be what you stated, for sure, but bitcoin has been transformed into something else.

This is where I believe that there is a window of time of 2-3 years (but probably less than 2 years) where BTC must establish itself as a mainstream currency of the masses that can be traded on FOREX and justify the loftiest of predictions on its future price.  If this doesn't happen in this timeframe, another altcoin (probably government backed...maybe initially backed by gold?) will emerge that will be accepted by the mainstream and FOREX markets.  That's actually another point of debate that people miss...just because BTC was around for years already doesn't necessarily mean that it will last for the same amount of time in the future going forward.  Of the 1000 or altcoins out there I predict that the majority will disappear much like companies in the dot-bomb era.  As of now it will be a race forward to see which currencies do the right things at the right times that makes them survive and go to the next level.  As much as people want to believe the contrary, BTC is not Coca-Cola when it comes to brand recognition.  Relatively speaking they are not even in the same Universe.

From where I'm sitting, this is where the idea of Tulip-mania creeps in.  In the case of cryptos, things happen so fast and due to their completely virtual valuation, things could be uglier than when Tulip bulbs went from a value worth an estate...to whatever tulip bulbs have sold for over time.  This idea of "buy and hold for years" echoed on this forum like gospel shows how little so many understand about investing and valuation of their investment.  And I'd bet that most of these people claim to be experts in BTC and other altcoins.  Those are the first people who will panic in a very bad way.

Yes, that is a very nice breakdown of what I said and I do agree with you. Tulip-mania (For people who don't know, he is referring to the first major financial bubble) seems to be present with Bitcoin and will only keep on being present unless Bitcoin establishes itself as a mainstream currency, useable in real life and digital situations. There are already project, for example cryptopay, which makes this a reality, but to we need to make Bitcoin itself, with no other outliers, useable in real life situations. Right now it is just too hard.

Even if the price of BTC crashes back down to $500-600 (regardless of it remaining the most valuable crypto per coin) I think that this will put a chilling effect on its specific place in the market where it trades in that range for a long period of time, just like the first time it was above $1000.  The fanatics will insist that it will come back...but I think the party will be over should this come to pass.  I believe that the smart money will cash out should it fall below what I said in my first post above and look for alternatives.  I believe that everyone here is correct on most of what they are saying...just that I think that the tortoise that wins this race will be not be the hare on which most are placing their bets.

I totally agree with what you just said there and will add some points of my own.
If bitcoin does drop to say 500-600, firstly I have lost a bunch of money, but there will be good in it. Right not transaction fees are the biggest reason that prevents Bitcoin from going mainstream, would you agree? If bitcoin did drop that low I wouldn't mind paying 10 cents in fees for a 10 dollar meal.

Maybe if Bitcoin forks again or the price drops again, we will be able to make Bitcoin mainstream.

In my experience it has been transaction fees that keep those with the means/cash on hand to even want to speculate on it...myself included (unless the price falls really soon and enough to justify a long position).  They cannot, as I cannot, wrap their minds around it being of any use to the average person, especially in the majority of the non-Western world where a $2-3 transaction fee can represent anywhere between a day to 1/4 of a days wages.  Imagine the hundreds of millions of Chinese that make about $12-15 per day when faced with even a $1 transaction fee.  It's just not practical.  Even most people in the West would opt for other means of payment rather than being assessed with a fee on top of the taxes that they are already paying (and are probably not happy about, especially with the 12-20% VATs out there).  The ONLY way I see BTC becoming competitive on a masses scale is if the merchant absorbs the fee.  Merchants will do this if only if they believe that it will increase their sales.  But the problem is that margins are so razor thin in some industries, like restaurants, that adding an additional 1-2% on top of 3-4% Visa/Mastercard fees will be a deal breaker.  The crypto that wins this race will get a company like Visa to absorb the cost so that neither the customer nor the merchant feels the pain of the additional fee.  So you're right...this is a huge hurdle...probably the biggest of all....and a major deal between a cryto and a credit card company will make or break pretty much everyone currently in this sphere IMO.

Totally agree with you. Before when bitcoin was this big and had this much of a price, people would use bitcoin to pay for anything they could, since it was so fast, safe and had like transaction fees of 10 cents.

The issue we are facing here is, we all want bitcoin to rise in price, so we can be rich, but if it does rise in price, who would be able to pay a 10 dollar transaction fee for a 200 dollar transaction, except us, who are rich. We have to lose something in order to grow.

The crypto that wins this race will get a company like Visa to absorb the cost so that neither the customer nor the merchant feels the pain of the additional fee.

That is a good point, I can imagine a world with Visa bitcoin debit cards. Good thinking!

[Aamir1]

Hello everybody.

I would like to invest some money in bitcoin, I don't use that money and I don't need it for the next 2/3 years.
I thought I found in bitcoin the perfect way to invest. BUT when I see the fees applied I don't see how the bitcoin will become mainstream! The fees are around 1mBTC which is approximatively 3$. Therefore what is the point of bitcoin?

The only thing I see : big amount transaction

But bitcoin won't be the money you use to buy your sandwich with those fees!

I saw a post saying: yeah burger king is willing to accept bitcoin in russia. Hopefully mcdonald will follow ! But why would someone pay 3$ fee therefore a third of his burger king menu in fee?

Will segwit may lower the fees?

Thank you

Why are you concerned about the fees if you are investing in bitcoin just to get some profit out of it? You are saying that you don't need the money for next 2 to 3 years, and i wonder why would you do any transactions with your bitcoins. You should just keep it idle in your wallet and let the price grow, and after 2-3 years, you may have double from what you have today.
By the way, the fees you have mentioned are not mandatory, but if you want your transaction to get in a block quite earlier then you have to pay more fees, but if you are not in hurry, you can send it with even 0.0001 which is not more than $0.4 approximately.

[Realist247]

Hello everybody.

I would like to invest some money in bitcoin, I don't use that money and I don't need it for the next 2/3 years.
I thought I found in bitcoin the perfect way to invest. BUT when I see the fees applied I don't see how the bitcoin will become mainstream! The fees are around 1mBTC which is approximatively 3$. Therefore what is the point of bitcoin?

The only thing I see : big amount transaction

But bitcoin won't be the money you use to buy your sandwich with those fees!

I saw a post saying: yeah burger king is willing to accept bitcoin in russia. Hopefully mcdonald will follow ! But why would someone pay 3$ fee therefore a third of his burger king menu in fee?

Will segwit may lower the fees?

Thank you

Why are you concerned about the fees if you are investing in bitcoin just to get some profit out of it? You are saying that you don't need the money for next 2 to 3 years, and i wonder why would you do any transactions with your bitcoins. You should just keep it idle in your wallet and let the price grow, and after 2-3 years, you may have double from what you have today.
By the way, the fees you have mentioned are not mandatory, but if you want your transaction to get in a block quite earlier then you have to pay more fees, but if you are not in hurry, you can send it with even 0.0001 which is not more than $0.4 approximately.

As was discussed immediately above, fees will determine long-term viability and ultimately longevity of BTC as an asset, in and of itself.  For BTC to maintain its position as leader and otherwise "market maker", especially as a currency, it needs to be considered as a practical means of exchange by the masses.  If it does not do this, other cryptos could find a way to bridge this gap and render BTC worthless in a matter of days, if not hours, of a major announcement or deal with an intermediary like a credit card company.  If speculation is all that fuels this price rise in BTC, it will come to a screeching halt sooner rather than later.  If the masses adopt it due to negligible or "invisible" fees, the sky is the limit.  Right now this is not happening and anyone speculating (probably 99% of this forum) might want to rethink this "minor" concern as something that is probably the biggest concern both now and until the point in time that BTC or an altcoin bridges the gap that truly takes it mainstream.

[lovesybitz]

As for my reason why I am investing in Bitcoin, well I don't really put my money in Bitcoin but what Bitcoin I earn I hold it in my wallet and hope the price will grow. Also for spending as well , I will just use my Bitcoin as my last resort if I really don't have any fiat currency left. So there is no reason for me to spend my Bitcoin,  it is like a great chance for me to save as many as I can because it is a perfect opportunity for people who are on a tight budget.

I don't buy bitcoin, but I earn bitcoin for signature campaign that I joined in then when the bounty gave as payment to my job to their campaign of course I will trade the coin then automatically converted to bitcoin balance. So its a good opportunity for me as well.

[wallstone]

Investment in bitcoin or crypto currency with your spare money to me is the best option as compared to keeping your money in the bank without any additional intrest on your money. This is because bitcoin or crypto currency is the future in terms of investment. You can equally invest in some other currency that are at the ICO level before the lunch.

Well, investing in bitcoin is one of the option if you want to much income and if you invest in cryptocurrency you can assure that your money will come back. In addition to that,  many people already invest in bitcoin or in cryptocurrency because they also see the great potential to become world currency.

[Realist247]

Investment in bitcoin or crypto currency with your spare money to me is the best option as compared to keeping your money in the bank without any additional intrest on your money. This is because bitcoin or crypto currency is the future in terms of investment. You can equally invest in some other currency that are at the ICO level before the lunch.

Well, investing in bitcoin is one of the option if you want to much income and if you invest in cryptocurrency you can assure that your money will come back. In addition to that,  many people already invest in bitcoin or in cryptocurrency because they also see the great potential to become world currency.

The only investment with any kind of assurance of long-term value is probably land.  After all, other than reclamation and volcanic activity, no one is making more land.  Banks are not safe at all and any student of history knows this.  But BTC is definitely not something that someone can trust with respect to getting their money back someday.  It could literally go from its current value to nothing in a matter of hours or even minutes.  Like I said above, the higher it climbs and the faster it does so drives me further away from it, even if it still is fascinating.  Normal investments have a REASON for their rise or fall.  As it stands right now, BTC is the epitome of irrational exuberance.

I'd like to see one person give me one good reason BTC climbed so much in the past 24 hours.  If they cannot, all those who cannot should ask themselves whether or not they are falling into a trap where their getting burned is part of a plan to make an "example" out of those who think that they can break free from the fiat paradigm.  Don't doubt for one second that central banks don't have the ability to pump and dump BTC to bring the pain to those that do not know their history.

[Realist247]

Once upon a time there was a company called Napster...and Yahoo...Friendster...Myspace...etc.

Everyone thought these companies were godly.  I wonder how many on this forum were even teenagers during the heyday of these former unstoppable untouchables...

[PokerFace3]

Hello everybody.

I would like to invest some money in bitcoin, I don't use that money and I don't need it for the next 2/3 years.
I thought I found in bitcoin the perfect way to invest. BUT when I see the fees applied I don't see how the bitcoin will become mainstream! The fees are around 1mBTC which is approximatively 3$. Therefore what is the point of bitcoin?

The only thing I see : big amount transaction

But bitcoin won't be the money you use to buy your sandwich with those fees!

I saw a post saying: yeah burger king is willing to accept bitcoin in russia. Hopefully mcdonald will follow ! But why would someone pay 3$ fee therefore a third of his burger king menu in fee?

Will segwit may lower the fees?

Thank you

The reason that keeps me on investing into bitcoin isee because it is the strange thing that I have but although it is strange it do provide income to help my mom in our daily expenses. Also I can hold it for a long period of time wherein I can gain because bitcoin's price is keep on rising from time to time.

I don't see any persuasive opinion that keeps everybody from investing in Bitcoin. To me more and more people will approach Bitcoin and start investing in Bitcoin. Its price is very stable now and it will go higher time by time. Hopefully It will be acceptable by all countries in the world.

Your intuitions are going to be right. Bitcoins prices are rising high and even now its value is more than any other digital currency. The number of bitcoins supporters is increasing and many people now plan to grab this currency due to the profits it will return. To not invest in it while there is time is a big mistake. So, I recommend increasing this precious asset as much as possible before it’s too late.

[A.H.Rassel]

I for one feel Bitcoin cost will expand well in future, it is prominent and Bitcoin has taken a toll expanded and diminished, so we have sought after profits.Segwit initiation will help with that since exchanges will be quicker and less expensive.

[justdimin]

Yes. Buying bitcoin is a good thing. In the coming time, it is value will continue to increase, we will be highly profitable and like you buy gold reserves. Now you buy reserve bitcoin Currently the government is slowly accepting bitcoin, you should buy it.

Yep bitcoins will be adopted by all of peoples around the world, corporations, comunities, the Banks and the government
at least they will adopt technology behind of blockchain, bitcoins will protect our whealty from inflation.
Bitcoins will be new digital gold, new currency, new asset can be controled by the owner without third party
so we must invest in bitcoins.

Bitcoins are getting famous day by day and it has already attracted masses from all over the world. More and more people are investing in this crypto currency in order to secure their future. It has been legalized in different parts of some countries for instance Japan. Sooner or later, it will be legal to do all financial matters through bitcoins.

It has provided many unemployed people a chance to earn their livelihoods and many are able to support their family in an easy and quick way. Technology cannot be denied for too long in this era. Bitcoins provide anonymity, security and freedom of control.

[emezh10]

Hello everybody.

I would like to invest some money in bitcoin, I don't use that money and I don't need it for the next 2/3 years.
I thought I found in bitcoin the perfect way to invest. BUT when I see the fees applied I don't see how the bitcoin will become mainstream! The fees are around 1mBTC which is approximatively 3$. Therefore what is the point of bitcoin?

The only thing I see : big amount transaction

But bitcoin won't be the money you use to buy your sandwich with those fees!

I saw a post saying: yeah burger king is willing to accept bitcoin in russia. Hopefully mcdonald will follow ! But why would someone pay 3$ fee therefore a third of his burger king menu in fee?

Will segwit may lower the fees?

Thank you

the main reason that keeps me on investing into bitcoin cryptocurrency is that it gives me an extra income through online usage due to the reason that it was generated and operated by modern technology so it gives it a capability and ability to be handy because you can store and hold it for a long period of time wherein you get a gain even without doing such an investment providing more opportunity to have more than what you currently have.

[lovesybitz]

The main reason why I keep buying bitcoin now is I believed that bitcoin will become more than 10, 000$ by next year.
So if I save more of it, by next year 2018,I could have a big savings for sure, it will become x3 or more of my capital for sure.
I can't wait to that moment.

[The_Dark_Knight]

That is really for me the biggest problem that bitcoin is currently facing. I still cant say if the segwit method either the hard fork method can give the solution because obviously right now the hard fork may seem to fail

It is very obvious that bitcoin is better than bitcoin cash, it has the longest blockchain, it has the best developers and the solution being implemented keeps bitcoin decentralized in small nodes also it seems we have taken back some powers from the miners, so bitcoin is the best.

[sidebyside]

I want to invest in bitcoin because it's a chance to make money, not the usual currency I use. In the future it can be widely distributed and used as a traditional currency. I will catch up with the time ..

[vrm86]

I would not say, that wide adoption of BTC equals fine opportunity to invest in BTC. As Bitcoin is more about speculation, than mean of payment it creates many chances to invest and profit in relative short time. In 2-3 years you can easily make some decent profit, but some patience is required. Fee argument is valid when considering Bitcoin adoption, but in terms of investments - I am not sure.

[vectisitch]

2 years ago my mate invested 10k gbp into an option trading programme. they lost it for him in 6 months. i told him to buy bitcoin. if he had and held it till now he would have had 135k.

you live and learn. i certainly have

[qwertyup23]

Investment in bitcoin or crypto currency with your spare money to me is the best option as compared to keeping your money in the bank without any additional intrest on your money. This is because bitcoin or crypto currency is the future in terms of investment. You can equally invest in some other currency that are at the ICO level before the lunch.

Well, investing in bitcoin is one of the option if you want to much income and if you invest in cryptocurrency you can assure that your money will come back. In addition to that,  many people already invest in bitcoin or in cryptocurrency because they also see the great potential to become world currency.

Just to give you guys an example: I have a friend who bought bitcoins way back when the price of each was only around ~$1000. Right now, he holds 85-90 bitcoins and last week, he bought 3.5 bitcoins which were priced around $3300 per/btc. In less than a week, his profit accumulated up to an 80% increase IF converted into fiat. By just holding onto bitcoins will really yield profit if you have the patience, courage, and determination to invest. Bitcoin has become one of the leading cryptocurrencies in the world and some countries are even legalizing the usage of it.