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Author Topic: [ANN] Bitcoin Cash - Pro on-chain scaling - Cheaper fees  (Read 645929 times)
bones261
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December 16, 2017, 11:17:20 PM
 #11501

I have a question on Bitcoin cash.
Bitcoin has good amount of hash rate what if some of them planned a 51% attack on Bitcoin cash? What would happen to Bitcoin cash? Is this some of kind of a serious issue to worry about. I'm thinking this might be serious but interested to know what some experts say.

Yes, there is the capability of doing a 51% attack on Bitcoin Cash with the current available hash for SHA-256D. However, the person most likely to be able to pull that off at the moment is Jihan Wu. Since he is a big supporter of Bitcoin Cash, there is probably a bigger chance that I will win the jackpot on Powerball 52 times in a row.

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Mrpumperitis
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December 17, 2017, 12:39:33 AM
 #11502

BCH is about to...
Cool

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
jztxeno
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December 17, 2017, 02:45:53 AM
 #11503

BCH is about to...
Cool


Other way around Kiss
snowfu199
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December 17, 2017, 03:18:38 AM
 #11504

BCH is undervalued a lot right now.
Mrpumperitis
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December 17, 2017, 04:51:34 AM
 #11505

BCH is undervalued a lot right now.
usual whale games, supress the gd coin, (shake out the weak at low prices)...pump a few other coins(lure in the weak at high prices)
then....BAM...other coins dump and all the profits go into buy cheap BCH  Grin Grin Grin Grin

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
snowfu199
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December 17, 2017, 05:26:22 AM
 #11506

BCH is undervalued a lot right now.
usual whale games, supress the gd coin, (shake out the weak at low prices)...pump a few other coins(lure in the weak at high prices)
then....BAM...other coins dump and all the profits go into buy cheap BCH  Grin Grin Grin Grin
it seems you are right. so the best way is just hold BCH for long.
Mrpumperitis
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December 17, 2017, 07:58:58 AM
 #11507

BCH is undervalued a lot right now.
usual whale games, supress the gd coin, (shake out the weak at low prices)...pump a few other coins(lure in the weak at high prices)
then....BAM...other coins dump and all the profits go into buy cheap BCH  Grin Grin Grin Grin
it seems you are right. so the best way is just hold BCH for long.
the suppression is about to go, they cant keep it this low anymore...
something big is happening right now...
https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7k90t0/bch_overtakes_btc_in_terms_of_blocksize_in_use/
–]peterhendrick 19 points 9 hours ago
It's true!!!
Check out this block! 2MB, 1096 txs!!
And someone moved $45 Million dollars for a fee of less than a penny.
https://bitcoincash.blockexplorer.com/block/000000000000000003a6f13caf4ca639da81cadef62a961ba6dff10c16f2a5bb

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
snowfu199
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December 17, 2017, 08:07:42 AM
 #11508

Everycoins below 1$ skyrocketing , ADa Tron Xvg bts ....
BCH is too expensive to be pumped Grin
Mrpumperitis
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December 17, 2017, 08:11:52 AM
 #11509

Everycoins below 1$ skyrocketing , ADa Tron Xvg bts ....
BCH is too expensive to be pumped Grin
refer back to my whale games post lol

I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Mrpumperitis
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December 17, 2017, 08:23:43 AM
 #11510

 Vitalik Buterin‏Verified account @VitalikButerin
https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/930276246671450112

1. I consider BCH a legitimate contender for the bitcoin name. I consider bitcoin's *failure* to raise block sizes to keep fees reasonable to be a large (non-consensual) change to the "original plan", morally tantamount to a hard fork.
2. Theymos's censorship.

Mr VB knows exactly whats going on, hes spot on for both points.
thanks bro ,  Smiley

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7k9re6/because_bitcoin_cash_is_effectively_bitcoin_thug/   CNBC


 Haipo Yang‏ @yhaiyang (via)
https://twitter.com/yhaiyang/status/941844039938146305 15 Dec 2017
Bitcoin Cash is Bitcoin, not IFO. I am not Bitcoin Cash created, just one of many big block supporters.



Emil Oldenburg‏ @emilolden
CTO of http://Bitcoin.com . Co-founder of @SafelloAB
https://twitter.com/emilolden/status/942031197785399296
My prediction: After January 2018, BTC will seldom be used for commerce and most will adopt BCH or other cryptos.
16 Dec 2017



http://www.trustnodes.com/2017/12/08/sbi-group-backs-bitcoin-cash-used-globally-daily-payments
http://www.sbibits.com/download/Press_Release_SBI%20Group_nChain_strategic_partnership_EN.pdf
[PRESS RELEASE]
SBI BITS and nChain Announce Strategic Partnership
to Support Cryptocurrency Security and Bitcoin Cash









I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Mrpumperitis
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December 17, 2017, 08:53:52 AM
 #11511

This video was recommended to me by a friend...im glad i watched it..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCVaabu3J04
Decentralized Truth
aantonop
Published on 16 Dec 2017
In this talk, Andreas explores the confusion and instinctive disbelief from newcomers about how open, decentralized cryptocurrencies can scale and grow in value without the finality of approval from authorities.


old skool andreas, excellent speech.  Smiley


I got red trust because i speak the truth....This thread shows why many long term users are being tagged red, ...https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399315.msg24593043#msg24593043 ,nullius and lauda are scammers.Bitcoin cash is the real upgrade bitcoin needed, not segwit.
How The Banks Bought Bitcoin  The Lightning Network - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g&feature=youtu.be&repost= Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Bitbobb
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Less hops. More wins.


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December 17, 2017, 10:11:26 AM
 #11512

Vitalik Buterin‏Verified account @VitalikButerin
https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/930276246671450112

1. I consider BCH a legitimate contender for the bitcoin name. I consider bitcoin's *failure* to raise block sizes to keep fees reasonable to be a large (non-consensual) change to the "original plan", morally tantamount to a hard fork.
2. Theymos's censorship.

Mr VB knows exactly whats going on, hes spot on for both points.
thanks bro ,  Smiley

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/7k9re6/because_bitcoin_cash_is_effectively_bitcoin_thug/   CNBC


 Haipo Yang‏ @yhaiyang (via)
https://twitter.com/yhaiyang/status/941844039938146305 15 Dec 2017
Bitcoin Cash is Bitcoin, not IFO. I am not Bitcoin Cash created, just one of many big block supporters.



Emil Oldenburg‏ @emilolden
CTO of http://Bitcoin.com . Co-founder of @SafelloAB
https://twitter.com/emilolden/status/942031197785399296
My prediction: After January 2018, BTC will seldom be used for commerce and most will adopt BCH or other cryptos.
16 Dec 2017



http://www.trustnodes.com/2017/12/08/sbi-group-backs-bitcoin-cash-used-globally-daily-payments
http://www.sbibits.com/download/Press_Release_SBI%20Group_nChain_strategic_partnership_EN.pdf
[PRESS RELEASE]
SBI BITS and nChain Announce Strategic Partnership
to Support Cryptocurrency Security and Bitcoin Cash










More than a contender for the name since only coin with the function that is behind the name.  And similarly core coin should not have the word in even the same sentence since it is material misrepresentation, misleading and therefore fraudulent in nature because it is in name only. 

tomkat
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December 17, 2017, 10:19:44 AM
 #11513

Everycoins below 1$ skyrocketing , ADa Tron Xvg bts ....
BCH is too expensive to be pumped Grin

BTC is 10 times more expensive than BCH and is pumped like crazy, so apparently the price isn't that important for pumpers  Grin
Since BTC's utility is now degraded, its survival seems to depend solely on high price and high fees which keep attracting miners.
Bitbobb
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Less hops. More wins.


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December 17, 2017, 10:25:03 AM
 #11514

Everycoins below 1$ skyrocketing , ADa Tron Xvg bts ....
BCH is too expensive to be pumped Grin

BTC is 10 times more expensive than BCH and is pumped like crazy, so apparently the price isn't that important for pumpers  Grin
Since BTC's utility is now degraded, its survival seems to depend solely on high price and high fees which keep attracting miners.


Victorio
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December 17, 2017, 10:54:56 AM
 #11515

Yes, there is the capability of doing a 51% attack on Bitcoin Cash with the current available hash for SHA-256D. However, the person most likely to be able to pull that off at the moment is Jihan Wu. Since he is a big supporter of Bitcoin Cash, there is probably a bigger chance that I will win the jackpot on Powerball 52 times in a row.
I am more concerned about the backdoor most recent Antminers have.
I also discard the possibility of a Bitcoin Cash 51% attack (no interest of the founding party to hurt the business), still can imagine an attempt to attack the Bitcoin chain - pools affiliated to Bitmain have 48-55% of total hashrate on average.
If the Antbleed backdoor is activated, Bitmain can switch off selectively a large portion of the SHA256D network and the online miners will have leverage to perform a 51% attack.

standards
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December 17, 2017, 12:03:52 PM
 #11516

Everycoins below 1$ skyrocketing , ADa Tron Xvg bts ....
BCH is too expensive to be pumped Grin

BTC is 10 times more expensive than BCH and is pumped like crazy, so apparently the price isn't that important for pumpers  Grin
Since BTC's utility is now degraded, its survival seems to depend solely on high price and high fees which keep attracting miners.


BTC is approaching 20k mark.
If it can stand steadily at that price, more growth is predictable.
hornetsnest
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December 17, 2017, 02:31:55 PM
 #11517


BTC is approaching 20k mark.
If it can stand steadily at that price, more growth is predictable.


100%
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December 17, 2017, 02:54:27 PM
 #11518


BTC is approaching 20k mark.
If it can stand steadily at that price, more growth is predictable.


100%

I hope it will surge again soon.
It is really a hard time for me to hold bitcoin still.
jbreher
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December 17, 2017, 03:23:47 PM
 #11519


Bitcoin Cash is not going to have a lot of full nodes if things go their way. In order to scale anywhere close to Visa, on chain, as appears to be their goal, a enterprise would need access to equipment capable of storing at least 56 TB of data per year. Probably at least quadruple that, since you want to properly index the data and have proper back ups. A casual user would need to run an SPV client.

For the umpteenth time - Bitcoin Cash has no reason to support Visa-scale transaction volume until such time as demand for transactions reaches Visa scale (is that a tautology?). If we somehow hit that next year, I'll be more than happy to store 56 TB of data that year. Of course, even in the most wildly optimistic scenario, Visa-scale demand is still several years off.

Perhaps you need to discuss this with Craig Wright on Twitter then. It appears nChain is working hard to bring this capacity to reality in 2018, needed or not.

Capacity is not consumption.

Quote
    After watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SJm2ep3X_M&feature=youtu.be
I have come to the conclusion that on-chain scaling is indeed feasible. My previous objections were that it takes pools too long to verify transactions. Therefore, 1GB blocks would result in many empty blocks being mined.

I see no scenario where that would be a consequence. Can you explain? For that matter, how does one quantify 'too many empty blocks'? As long as all transactions are processed with reasonable alacrity, what does the block fullness matter?

Currently, there is a bottleneck in the way nodes need to verify transaction included in the previous block before they start including transactions in the new block they are working on. This is why empty blocks are frequently mined if they arrive within about 30 seconds of the previous block. 1GB blocks would compound this bottleneck 1000x. However, nChain is working on ways to relieve the bottleneck. Therefore, my objection would be thwarted.

Again, I fail to see why this is a problem.

I actually had a significant discussion about a year ago with the author of the leading independent mining SW about this very issue. Though the motivating factor was the nonsense about nonlinear hash time for aberrant transactions. Yes, there is a significant opportunity to improve the threading model within leading Bitcoin clients.

However, I don't see how your reply addresses my question. As long as all transactions are processed with reasonable alacrity, what does the block fullness matter?

Quote
However, I still have misgivings about 1 GB blocks since this would require a node to have the storage capacity of over 50tb per year.  

Other than to repeat that we will not consume that much storage until there is actual demand for it, I would like to point out the 50 TB of storage -- today -- costs less than 0.1 BTC (~$1650 USD at standard retail).



At this time, I believe this would cause a barrier to entry for small start ups that require a full node be run. (New exchanges, information services, mining pools etc.)
 
If a startup can't lose 0.1 BTC in the noise of its annual CapEx budget, it is likely to be a non-entity anyhow.

According to Craig Wright, the initial setup would be $20,000. If I wanted to start a block explorer or a sight like fork.lol, that's quite an outlay, especially since it extremely difficult to be able monetize such an informational sight, to make up the costs. I enjoy these information sights and don't deem them "non-entities."

I have heard Craig Wright speak of the $20K figure. But I have not heard him speak of it as a minimum viable investment - merely exemplary. More importantly, $20K (I note that this is a depreciating asset with a useful life exceeding one year) is a drop in the bucket for any real business. Crippling Bitcoin in order to save paying a $5/year subscription to access fork.lol's data is the wrong decision.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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December 17, 2017, 03:51:23 PM
 #11520

Yes, there is the capability of doing a 51% attack on Bitcoin Cash with the current available hash for SHA-256D. However, the person most likely to be able to pull that off at the moment is Jihan Wu. Since he is a big supporter of Bitcoin Cash, there is probably a bigger chance that I will win the jackpot on Powerball 52 times in a row.
I am more concerned about the backdoor most recent Antminers have.
I also discard the possibility of a Bitcoin Cash 51% attack (no interest of the founding party to hurt the business), still can imagine an attempt to attack the Bitcoin chain - pools affiliated to Bitmain have 48-55% of total hashrate on average.
If the Antbleed backdoor is activated, Bitmain can switch off selectively a large portion of the SHA256D network and the online miners will have leverage to perform a 51% attack.

With 51% of net hashrate it will be still very difficult to attack Bitcoin network. You need much more, ideally ~80-90% to solve a lot of blocks in a row.

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