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Author Topic: [WDC] Worldcoin | 3.0 Flirtatious Ant Released! | Multicoin architecture  (Read 407376 times)
thisnewcoin
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May 15, 2013, 02:45:15 AM
 #101

another nice named coin  Wink
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Yurizhai
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May 15, 2013, 03:33:25 AM
 #102

Nothing here that FC2 does not already offer

One of the retarded above, yes they are clearly identical even though feathercoin2 has a 2min. block and this one confirms almost instantly, but yes sorry ScamCoin2 already offers all of this.

Feathercoin 2 is just a joke. The first feathercoin didn't take off, a sequel isnt going to do any better...

It took off big time, then crashed hard as fuck.
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May 15, 2013, 03:33:40 AM
 #103

15 second blocks?

Hello Orphans

+1  

OMG, Seriously, people are just randomly changing numbers without knowing WHY those numbers should be what they are.

15 seconds isn't going to be enough for blocks to get from one side of the network to the other. A couple of miners are going to modify their clients to ignore other chains, and just mine everything themselves. With blocks only 15 seconds apart, it's going to be almost impossible to avoid multiple, simultaneous, attacks on the coin.
Your assuming this is meant as a long term coin.
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May 15, 2013, 03:45:33 AM
 #104

15 second blocks?

Hello Orphans

+1  

OMG, Seriously, people are just randomly changing numbers without knowing WHY those numbers should be what they are.

15 seconds isn't going to be enough for blocks to get from one side of the network to the other. A couple of miners are going to modify their clients to ignore other chains, and just mine everything themselves. With blocks only 15 seconds apart, it's going to be almost impossible to avoid multiple, simultaneous, attacks on the coin.
Your assuming this is meant as a long term coin.

Can somebody explain why this wouldn't be viable long term? How can you just ignore a chain?
monokaskade
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May 15, 2013, 03:50:37 AM
 #105

15 second blocks?

Hello Orphans

+1  

OMG, Seriously, people are just randomly changing numbers without knowing WHY those numbers should be what they are.

15 seconds isn't going to be enough for blocks to get from one side of the network to the other. A couple of miners are going to modify their clients to ignore other chains, and just mine everything themselves. With blocks only 15 seconds apart, it's going to be almost impossible to avoid multiple, simultaneous, attacks on the coin.
Your assuming this is meant as a long term coin.

Can somebody explain why this wouldn't be viable long term? How can you just ignore a chain?

In the beginning of a coin the difficulty is very low and there are not many nodes on the network. If you run a few nodes that always agree on each other and you have some hashing power behind those you could easily extend the blockchain while others are fighting with orphans.

This only works while you can find blocks in seconds and other chains are not extending faster than your nodes chain

Vertcoin Pool http://vert.bitcrush.info | Pandacoin Pool http://panda.bitcrush.info |
achillez
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May 15, 2013, 03:54:07 AM
 #106

world coins woot!
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May 15, 2013, 04:22:52 AM
 #107

15 second blocks?

Hello Orphans

+1  

OMG, Seriously, people are just randomly changing numbers without knowing WHY those numbers should be what they are.

15 seconds isn't going to be enough for blocks to get from one side of the network to the other. A couple of miners are going to modify their clients to ignore other chains, and just mine everything themselves. With blocks only 15 seconds apart, it's going to be almost impossible to avoid multiple, simultaneous, attacks on the coin.
Your assuming this is meant as a long term coin.

Can somebody explain why this wouldn't be viable long term? How can you just ignore a chain?

In the beginning of a coin the difficulty is very low and there are not many nodes on the network. If you run a few nodes that always agree on each other and you have some hashing power behind those you could easily extend the blockchain while others are fighting with orphans.

This only works while you can find blocks in seconds and other chains are not extending faster than your nodes chain

still confused, don't all the blocks go through the nodes?
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May 15, 2013, 04:40:56 AM
 #108

still confused, don't all the blocks go through the nodes?

Eventually, yes.  But you need to know how the standard client works. It follows the longest, valid, chain.  So lets assume you are evil miner 1. You have a significant amount of hashing power, say 10% of the network.   One in every 10 blocks is yours.

Statistically, in this case, you're mining one block every 150 seconds.  But that's just statistically.  You will quite regularly, mine 3 coins in a row. You can re-write your miner to NOT follow the longest valid chain. You can tell it to keep persevering with your chain until you're 4 blocks behind the rest of the network, before you abandon your tree.

And when you DO get those 4 coins, suddenly the chain you're on is the longest chain, and you've just invalidated (orphaned) those 4 blocks that other people mined (and, whoops, those were confirmed by the network, too!) and you've just done a very small, but very easy, 'traditional' 51% attack with only 10%. Consider it brains vs brawn.

There are other things you can do, too. You can just ignore blocks mined by other people, too. Let your miners run for an extra 5 seconds on that block before you switch to the next one. See if you can get a block too. Keep mining that one. If you're lucky, you'll beat the other chain, and orphan them.

It also helps (as in, helps nasty-miner-1) other miners having slower nodes, too. At the moment, it can take up to 15 seconds for a block to propagate throughout the BTC network. I haven't done any timings on LTC, but I assume it would be roughly the same. Having a fast, central, node, means you can be an entire block in front of everyone else.

Oh look, I'm doing BTC-hacking 101 in this thread.   Most of these issues are dealt with (by BTC and LTC) by having slower block times, and longer confirmations. As I said originally: Randomly changing numbers without knowing what the numbers are for is just a dumb idea.

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May 15, 2013, 04:53:01 AM
 #109

Quote
Eventually, yes.  But you need to know how the standard client works. It follows the longest, valid, chain.  So lets assume you are evil miner 1. You have a significant amount of hashing power, say 10% of the network.   One in every 10 blocks is yours.

Statistically, in this case, you're mining one block every 150 seconds.  But that's just statistically.  You will quite regularly, mine 3 coins in a row. You can re-write your miner to NOT follow the longest valid chain. You can tell it to keep persevering with your chain until you're 4 blocks behind the rest of the network, before you abandon your tree.

And when you DO get those 4 coins, suddenly the chain you're on is the longest chain, and you've just invalidated (orphaned) those 4 blocks that other people mined (and, whoops, those were confirmed by the network, too!) and you've just done a very small, but very easy, 'traditional' 51% attack with only 10%. Consider it brains vs brawn.

There are other things you can do, too. You can just ignore blocks mined by other people, too. Let your miners run for an extra 5 seconds on that block before you switch to the next one. See if you can get a block too. Keep mining that one. If you're lucky, you'll beat the other chain, and orphan them.

It also helps (as in, helps nasty-miner-1) other miners having slower nodes, too. At the moment, it can take up to 15 seconds for a block to propagate throughout the BTC network. I haven't done any timings on LTC, but I assume it would be roughly the same. Having a fast, central, node, means you can be an entire block in front of everyone else.

Oh look, I'm doing BTC-hacking 101 in this thread.   Most of these issues are dealt with (by BTC and LTC) by having slower block times, and longer confirmations. As I said originally: Randomly changing numbers without knowing what the numbers are for is just a dumb idea.

The problem is, that you are not alone, while you accumulate your blocks, others in the network assemble longer chains. This is a dynamic process, and unless you have the absolute advantage, likely your chain will be abandoned when trying to join main one. Also, this is only possible at the beginning when most people (especially big computing power guys) not get on board. From my observations, the recent new coins when they come out, many big guys jumped onto the ship as fast as they can, and on one really will get a chance to do what you described there.

Maybe that you can do an experiment, by modifying the client. Lol, the problem is, with checkpoints in the code and not knowing at what is the genesis block, you get no chance to write a program to take it over. Again unless you have the absolute advantage in the computing power.

                                 
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May 15, 2013, 04:56:01 AM
 #110

Well, if anything at least the coins are pretty?
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May 15, 2013, 05:11:37 AM
 #111

Quote
Eventually, yes.  But you need to know how the standard client works. It follows the longest, valid, chain.  So lets assume you are evil miner 1. You have a significant amount of hashing power, say 10% of the network.   One in every 10 blocks is yours.

Statistically, in this case, you're mining one block every 150 seconds.  But that's just statistically.  You will quite regularly, mine 3 coins in a row. You can re-write your miner to NOT follow the longest valid chain. You can tell it to keep persevering with your chain until you're 4 blocks behind the rest of the network, before you abandon your tree.

And when you DO get those 4 coins, suddenly the chain you're on is the longest chain, and you've just invalidated (orphaned) those 4 blocks that other people mined (and, whoops, those were confirmed by the network, too!) and you've just done a very small, but very easy, 'traditional' 51% attack with only 10%. Consider it brains vs brawn.

There are other things you can do, too. You can just ignore blocks mined by other people, too. Let your miners run for an extra 5 seconds on that block before you switch to the next one. See if you can get a block too. Keep mining that one. If you're lucky, you'll beat the other chain, and orphan them.

It also helps (as in, helps nasty-miner-1) other miners having slower nodes, too. At the moment, it can take up to 15 seconds for a block to propagate throughout the BTC network. I haven't done any timings on LTC, but I assume it would be roughly the same. Having a fast, central, node, means you can be an entire block in front of everyone else.

Oh look, I'm doing BTC-hacking 101 in this thread.   Most of these issues are dealt with (by BTC and LTC) by having slower block times, and longer confirmations. As I said originally: Randomly changing numbers without knowing what the numbers are for is just a dumb idea.

The problem is, that you are not alone, while you accumulate your blocks, others in the network assemble longer chains. This is a dynamic process, and unless you have the absolute advantage, likely your chain will be abandoned when trying to join main one. Also, this is only possible at the beginning when most people (especially big computing power guys) not get on board. From my observations, the recent new coins when they come out, many big guys jumped onto the ship as fast as they can, and on one really will get a chance to do what you described there.

Maybe that you can do an experiment, by modifying the client. Lol, the problem is, with checkpoints in the code and not knowing at what is the genesis block, you get no chance to write a program to take it over. Again unless you have the absolute advantage in the computing power.

This was what I was wondering, and you answered it exactly, so it's basically something that most likely won't happen lol, because of checkpoints and probably a decent size network.
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May 15, 2013, 05:30:02 AM
 #112

That is NOT a professional web site. It's WordPress crap.

This is the theme: http://www.themehorse.com/themes/attitude/

It's free.

It would take more time to write the copy and take screenshots than get the site up from scratch. It also probably took more time to make the globe/coin image and logo than to fork + find-replace Litecoin (or whichever).
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May 15, 2013, 05:41:17 AM
 #113

what do you mean? It is a very nice website, very well done. Who cares what's the provider is, we can about contents, don't we?

                                 
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gnomicide
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May 15, 2013, 05:46:40 AM
 #114

what do you mean? It is a very nice website, very well done. Who cares what's the provider is, we can about contents, don't we?

It's a direct parallel of the fork-coin phenomenon. Copy someone else's work, change a few things, pretend it has substance.
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May 15, 2013, 05:47:08 AM
 #115

That is NOT a professional web site. It's WordPress crap.

This is the theme: http://www.themehorse.com/themes/attitude/

It's free.

It would take more time to write the copy and take screenshots than get the site up from scratch. It also probably took more time to make the globe/coin image and logo than to fork + find-replace Litecoin (or whichever).

Good Point because using a free theme and setting up a webpage that's better than bitcoin, litecoin, and every other crap coin, is well as you put it "Wordpress Crap". I'm going to leave and wait for this to launch and not read the absurd non sense, before i blow my brains out.
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May 15, 2013, 05:49:00 AM
 #116

what do you mean? It is a very nice website, very well done. Who cares what's the provider is, we can about contents, don't we?

Yes. "Find and Replace" is the same as designing a website from scratch. Kind of like all these coins...


This is pointless unless they're custom coding some method of pruning the block chain (they're not). Yacoin was running about 35mb a day, this will be worse.
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May 15, 2013, 05:54:44 AM
 #117

That is NOT a professional web site. It's WordPress crap.

This is the theme: http://www.themehorse.com/themes/attitude/

It's free.

It would take more time to write the copy and take screenshots than get the site up from scratch. It also probably took more time to make the globe/coin image and logo than to fork + find-replace Litecoin (or whichever).

Good Point because using a free theme and setting up a webpage that's better than bitcoin, litecoin, and every other crap coin, is well as you put it "Wordpress Crap". I'm going to leave and wait for this to launch and not read the absurd non sense, before i blow my brains out.

Lol, you can't take serious a guy who says wordpress is crap. Wordpress is used on almost all websites: eBay, CNN, Techcrunch... Litecoin is using wordpress too.

The worst enemy of Bitcoin is Mt.Gox exchange.
JohnyBigs
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May 15, 2013, 05:56:41 AM
 #118

what do you mean? It is a very nice website, very well done. Who cares what's the provider is, we can about contents, don't we?

Yes. "Find and Replace" is the same as designing a website from scratch. Kind of like all these coins...


This is pointless unless they're custom coding some method of pruning the block chain (they're not). Yacoin was running about 35mb a day, this will be worse.

Yes because people love doing more work than needed to achieve the same thing.

Hey I need to be at the airport at this time. Lets see route A takes 20min. While Route B takes 1 hour. I will chose 1 hour because I am mentally retarded.

Create a website that gets our point acorss. Wordpress 10 days, hardcode from scratch just for the fun of it 1 Month.

The trolls on these forums are amazing haha.
JohnyBigs
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May 15, 2013, 06:00:33 AM
 #119

That is NOT a professional web site. It's WordPress crap.

This is the theme: http://www.themehorse.com/themes/attitude/

It's free.

It would take more time to write the copy and take screenshots than get the site up from scratch. It also probably took more time to make the globe/coin image and logo than to fork + find-replace Litecoin (or whichever).

Good Point because using a free theme and setting up a webpage that's better than bitcoin, litecoin, and every other crap coin, is well as you put it "Wordpress Crap". I'm going to leave and wait for this to launch and not read the absurd non sense, before i blow my brains out.

Lol, you can't take serious a guy who says wordpress is crap. Wordpress is used on almost all websites: eBay, CNN, Techcrunch... Litecoin is using wordpress too.

OMG but those are professional websites how can they use wordpress which is so unprofessional.
gnomicide
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May 15, 2013, 06:42:24 AM
 #120

WordPress is definitely not "used on almost all websites". eBay and CNN use it for their blogs, which WP is suited for.

The technical ability required to put up a static site with an unmodified theme on WP is about the same as that required to fork, find-replace text, and recompile. Namely, very little. This same person could literally release a "new" coin, fully branded with a "professional" site, every single day. The hardest part would be picking new coin and domain names.

This combines to give 0 credibility to this and similar bandwagon-alt-coins.
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