Marketplace trust

[Maged]

Why is trust level 0 not the default?

Because the idea here is to build a trust network and let theymos delegate. If you set your depth to level zero and only have theymos on your list, only ratings directly made by theymos will show as trusted to you. Basically, level 0 is the system we already have with scammer tags. But once again, delegation is the keyword, here.

I guess it could work both ways. I think it would be better, if people trusted people who they had actual trades with. I feel that makes more sense in my head.

That's only because you're used to Bitcoin-otc. You shouldn't have to trade with someone to trust their opinion (this would be the case if you find yourself constantly agreeing with them), nor should you have to trust someone that you traded with in the past. IMO, this is a better system.

[1714776725]

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[1714776725]

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[theymos]

It would be nice if there was a way to specifically exclude someone from the trust list. In the mean time, trust level 0 will only trust the people you specifically put on your list.

Yeah. It'd also be better to be able to give a score to each person on your trust list which limits how much their ratings count toward the scores. But the current system is a lot easier and more efficient. It'll be good enough for now.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

I guess it could work both ways. I think it would be better, if people trusted people who they had actual trades with. I feel that makes more sense in my head.

That's only because you're used to Bitcoin-otc. You shouldn't have to trade with someone to trust their opinion (this would be the case if you find yourself constantly agreeing with them), nor should you have to trust someone that you traded with in the past. IMO, this is a better system.

So I guess this where I am confused. Obviously after one trade you shouldn't trust them, but after a good amount of trades you can trust them. But your saying we should trust based on opinion?

No no, trust is completely different from feedback.

Feedback = ratings for trades
Trust = who's feedback you want to see

[BadBear]

I like it, should work out well. Hopefully it can replace the scammer tag system, but it will probably still be needed sometimes.

[HostFat]

Maybe it's a good idea to add a link to Trust in the upper menu.

[John (John K.)]

Ah, just saw this nifty addition. Guess I'm really slow sometimes. 

[Zaih]

Cool new addition - Thanks!

[Bjork]

What if I want to remove Theymos from my trust list.

lol...

[Maged]

What if I want to remove Theymos from my trust list.

lol...

If you don't want to trust anyone, trust someone with an empty trust list (satoshi, for example).

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

New number in brackets? I thought it was the number of people that have trusted that user in your trust network, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

EDIT: Number of users directly in your trust list that have gave positive feedback?

[Abdussamad]

It's too complicated. Why have 4 numbers? One number should suffice - net rating.

[Matthew N. Wright]

It's too complicated. Why have 4 numbers? One number should suffice - net rating.

For display purposes, you could have just one number in a market format with a red down or green up arrow showing the trend 

Seriously though, comments/proof/rebuttals are essential to ratings systems, and as such, displaying both positive and negative is an elementary requirement. Single numbers are misleading in either direction.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Could this be incorporated into or paired with Reddit? For example, date of first comment on /r/Bitcoin, total amount tipped, number of posts to /r/Bitcoin, comment karma from /r/Bitcoin, etc. You could add an option for people to link their Reddit account with their Bitcointalk account, verified here and there by PM. Also, what about real-life address, etc.? I know I'm a lot more likely to trust blockchain.info because the owner is known IRL.

The big things reddit helps with that Bitcointalk doesn't have are karma and tipping history.

• Sockpuppets and high post counts are easy to generate, but karma is much harder - you have to actually post some well-thought-out content
• Generous tippers are vastly less likely to be interested in scamming, and it costs money to game this one

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Karma is actually easier to generate than content IMO. I have an experiment account with over 50k karma that is composed solely of reposts.

Also, what's to prevent someone from tipping a sockpuppet, etc.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

Karma is actually easier to generate than content IMO. I have an experiment account with over 50k karma that is composed solely of reposts.

Also, what's to prevent someone from tipping a sockpuppet, etc.

That's why I said *comment* karma, not post karma. Much harder to game. (However, even posting a bunch of reposts patiently over time is something that takes work and dedication, which is negatively correlated with scamming, so even link karma could be useful.)

Good point on tipping a sockpuppet, though if tipping other trusted people it still seems this would provide useful trust data.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

No, not just post karma, I also reposted top comments from previous links, it had 35k link and 15k comment.

Anyways, the chances of this getting implemented are pretty slim.

[Zangelbert Bingledack]

No, not just post karma, I also reposted top comments from previous links, it had 35k link and 15k comment.

Anyways, the chances of this getting implemented are pretty slim.

You got comment karma for posting other people's comments? I assume you mean in comments as replies to people. In that case it's still adding some value or it wouldn't be upvoted. Maybe easy for you, but not everyone can get easy karma that way, so it's of value as a trust metric.

And why unlikely to be implemented? Theymos administers that subreddit, too. No need for cooperation from Reddit itself, since subreddits are quite customizable. Even if it isn't incorporated into /r/Bitcoin itself, the linkage across the platforms could provide useful trust data. For instance, I'd certainly trust hardleft132's Bitcointalk identity, if he has one.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

No, not just post karma, I also reposted top comments from previous links, it had 35k link and 15k comment.

Anyways, the chances of this getting implemented are pretty slim.

You got comment karma for posting other people's comments?

And why unlikely to be implemented? Theymos administers that subreddit, too. No need for cooperation from Reddit itself, since subreddits are quite customizable. Even if it isn't incorporated into /r/Bitcoin itself, the linkage across the platforms could provide useful trust data. For instance, I'd certainly trust hardleft132's Bitcointalk account, if he has one.

Yep, not other people's comments in the same thread but across older ones. It was a fun experiment at first watching you (generally) get karma for other people's links/comments but got boring after a while.

It would require cooperation with bitcointip, a third party service for starters. The forum would need to get the transaction history of bitcointip users, which probably a lot of users won't agree to. It doesn't matter if it's opt in, an API call is an API call to a script (and thus, opt in matters nothing).

You can also only get a number of comments from the API. Being a moderator of a subreddit doesn't let you change the core code of reddit.

[tysat]

Linking trust on this site with reddit is a bad idea IMO, reddit is too easy to game.  All that would do is create a false sense of security for scammers and probably make it easier for them to get higher numbers.

[Rampion]

Linking trust on this site with reddit is a bad idea IMO, reddit is too easy to game.  All that would do is create a false sense of security for scammers and probably make it easier for them to get higher numbers.

I agree. And IMO we should consider Reddit/b and bitcointalk.org as two separate communities.