Bitcoin is being killed by governments and nobody seems to care!

[Loozik]

The government isn't made up of US citizens who are elected by other US citizens to represent and serve them? 

Be a dear and give me a definition of a citizen.

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[Elwar]

Those citizens who are unsatisfied with how they are being represented should vote for people who represent their interests better or run for office themselves.

Our government is, as Lincoln stated, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

Should. But they do not.

They vote for the guy they think can win during the primaries then vote for the lesser of two evils in the general election.

(A scarier thought is that the people elected are actually what people want)

No? The government isn't made up of US citizens who are elected by other US citizens to represent and serve them?  

Thats news to me.

Well, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

[Jace]

It does, my friend. It does. The decision of how many numbers should be created in some bank's computer is taken by some very real objects or rather subjects, not by some open source network protocol!

Exactly. They're digital, and can be created at whim! (i.e. whatever these particular subjects prefer)
That makes it even less real or trustworthy than Bitcoin, which is also digital but created according to fixed, predetermined mathematical rules that nobody can temper with.

And those real object/subjects will do whatever they can do to defend the privilege they have.

Sure they will, but it's a lost cause (and doesn't change the fact that euros and dollars are indeed digital, just as much as Bitcoin)

Face it! You can not legally create and operate p2p exchange for fiat currencies. Existing laws and regulations in every country are all targeted to prevent exactly this from happening.

Theoretically, you can't legally do p2p file sharing either, due to copyright laws and what not. Yet it happens all the time.

Read also this topic about the new kind of p2p exchange that will soon become reality. Laws and regulations won't help. No government can intervene against this, because (as opposed to the existing Bitcoin exchanges or intermediate services like Dwolla) there is simply no particular person, company, website, server, or other entity that "they" can seize to take this exchange system down.

[Gordonium]

Those citizens who are unsatisfied with how they are being represented should vote for people who represent their interests better or run for office themselves.

Our government is, as Lincoln stated, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49.

[SEC agent]

How is creating laws possible? Laws are not being created, laws are being discovered. Laws are fundamental truths about the reality, e.g.:

You are confusing scientific law with civil and criminal law.  

[Jace]

You are confusing scientific law with civil and criminal law.  

I think you are. You seem to think that creating laws against Bitcoin is going to have any more effect than creating laws against gravity or Archimedes' principle.

It's going to happen, whether they (=some government or whoever) like it or not.

[SEC agent]

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51 percent of the people may take away the rights of the other 49.

That's not how the us government works.

The president isn't chosen by popular vote, and presidents have lost the popular vote and still won the election. Representatives and senators are voted in by localities and represent the interests of the individual states they serve (not 51% of the country).
 
51% of the votes in this country gets you nothing.

[TippingPoint]

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

[Loozik]

You are confusing scientific law with civil and criminal law.  

No, you are confusing science (laws) with pseudocience (jurisprudence, including non-valid concepts like civil and criminal ''laws'').

[JamesTaylor]

My real question about governments is:

1) With Bitcoins is really easy to launder money and do not declare your earnings. That means less money payed to taxes.
2) Even though everyone complains about taxes, the majority agrees, because they want public streets, schools, healthcare...
3) What if the state forces to remove Bitcoin because if people keep doing it they will need to increment taxes.
4) Taxes increment -> More people have nondeclared money. Go to 1).

How is that not a problem? In most "standard" (let me call it like that) countries, not only USA, is going to be a problem if it ends up being very popular.

Solutions? I don't know.

[SEC agent]

I think you are. You seem to think that creating laws against Bitcoin is going to have any more effect than creating laws against gravity or Archimedes' principle.

It's going to happen, whether they (=some government or whoever) like it or not.

No one created "laws against Bitcoin". Exchanges failed to comply with existing anti-money laundering laws and regulations.

[SEC agent]

You are confusing scientific law with civil and criminal law.  

No, you are confusing science (laws) with pseudocience (jurisprudence, including non-valid concepts like civil and criminal ''laws'').

How exactly is civil and criminal law a "non-valid" concept? 

[Elwar]

You are confusing scientific law with civil and criminal law.  

No, you are confusing science (laws) with pseudocience (jurisprudence, including non-valid concepts like civil and criminal ''laws'').

How exactly is civil and criminal law a "non-valid" concept? 

Most civil and criminal laws are not valid concepts.

They are mainly the initiation of force against people who have not themselves initiated force.

[jdbtracker]

Laws are made, but they cannot be followed if the individuals choose not to believe in them.

Was segregation right? was it moral? It was a law once.

no government no matter how corrupt can truly rule without the consent of the people. Individuals may get elected into office and make ludicrous proclamations but if the people do not choose to follow those proclamations then they are invalid; The people will find a way around them, regardless of the consequences, these are individuals who have made it their motto to live with freedom without security.

In an ideal society there would be no prisons, because people accept the law on a logical and mutually beneficial basis, whenever force is needed to convince the population to concede then you are no longer living in a democracy you are living in a dictatorship free of logic, free of education, free of choice; You have no say in what is truly best for you, your choice is being delegated to someone else to make it for you.

[SEC agent]

Those citizens who are unsatisfied with how they are being represented should vote for people who represent their interests better or run for office themselves.

Our government is, as Lincoln stated, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

Should. But they do not.

They vote for the guy they think can win during the primaries then vote for the lesser of two evils in the general election.

That's a problem of the people, not a problem of the system.  The government doesn't force people to vote that way, the people choose to vote that way themselves.

[deadweasel]

Those citizens who are unsatisfied with how they are being represented should vote for people who represent their interests better or run for office themselves.

Our government is, as Lincoln stated, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

Should. But they do not.

They vote for the guy they think can win during the primaries then vote for the lesser of two evils in the general election.

That's a problem of the people, not a problem of the system.  The government doesn't force people to vote that way, the people choose to vote that way themselves.

The only vote you have is what you do with your time, or more specifically, how you act in every waking second.  Everything else is an illusion. 

[Loozik]

My real question about governments is:

1) With Bitcoins is really easy to launder money and do not declare your earnings. That means less money payed to taxes.
2) Even though everyone complains about taxes, the majority agrees, because they want public streets, schools, healthcare...
3) What if the state forces to remove Bitcoin because if people keep doing it they will need to increment taxes.
4) Taxes increment -> More people have nondeclared money. Go to 1).

How is that not a problem? In most "standard" (let me call it like that) countries, not only USA, is going to be a problem if it ends up being very popular.

Solutions? I don't know.

Here is diagnosis:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGIgOIFdnMQ&list=PL8BAD2CAEDA93AAD8 watch the whole series
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

Here is the solution (download audiobooks and listen when you have time):
http://www.freedomainradio.com/FreeBooks.aspx
recommended: How (not) to achieve freedom, Practical anarchy, everyday anarchy

[SEC agent]

Laws are made, but they cannot be followed if the individuals choose not to believe in them.

Was segregation right? was it moral? It was a law once.

Exactly. When the people decided that segregation (Jim Crow laws), slavery, etc was no longer morally acceptable, the laws were removed.

The people of this country make the laws and have equal power to dismantle them.  Our laws represent the will of the people.

[noedaRDH]

Those citizens who are unsatisfied with how they are being represented should vote for people who represent their interests better or run for office themselves.

Our government is, as Lincoln stated, "of the people, by the people and for the people".

LOL, okay there, "SEC agent". Hahahaha.

[TippingPoint]

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Therefore, Bitcoin was created.