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Author Topic: [ANN][VOT]: VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy  (Read 78545 times)
Ainars
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May 03, 2018, 08:25:05 PM
 #1221

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020180503154806494uGcSyiu806FD

Any plans to fork VOT and make it ASIC resistant?
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May 04, 2018, 11:10:50 AM
 #1222

Is there any plan to be listed in Binance like website says ?


Seems they're waiting to see what Zooko/ZCash does...
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May 04, 2018, 01:05:32 PM
 #1223

It seems that listing on Open Ledger DEX is free, maybe submit the application form?

https://dex.openledger.info/welcome
votecoin.site (OP)
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May 04, 2018, 01:28:11 PM
 #1224


VoteCoin will follow zcash regarding this.
Zooko Wilcox said somewhere that ASIC resistance is not such important for zcash, since ASIC makes the network stronger.
So not sure about the outcome yet
-Tom


VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
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May 04, 2018, 04:20:52 PM
 #1225


VoteCoin will follow zcash regarding this.
Zooko Wilcox said somewhere that ASIC resistance is not such important for zcash, since ASIC makes the network stronger.
So not sure about the outcome yet
-Tom



For Zcash maybe, but for 0.5MSol/s VOT network only 50 such miners needed to get control over (or ruin?) the network! Please correct me if I am wrong. And for sure, such network/blockchain cannot be called decentralized voting platform if there will be only couple of main players (mining farms) on the VOT mining market.

The real question is will you be able to sort out the mess if Zcash decides not to fork!?
A bigger team (IntenseCoin) made a right mess out of all the forking against ASICs so I am worried about the VoteCoin team capabilities which, I believe, has much smaller team. Please reassure us Smiley

Better to be prepared than sorry.

For now I translate such answer as ASICs are welcome to ruin our project/network. A good time to order some ASICs for tests after such answer Cheesy.
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May 04, 2018, 04:56:52 PM
 #1226


VoteCoin will follow zcash regarding this.
Zooko Wilcox said somewhere that ASIC resistance is not such important for zcash, since ASIC makes the network stronger.
So not sure about the outcome yet
-Tom



For Zcash maybe, but for 0.5MSol/s VOT network only 50 such miners needed to get control over (or ruin?) the network! Please correct me if I am wrong. And for sure, such network/blockchain cannot be called decentralized voting platform if there will be only couple of main players (mining farms) on the VOT mining market.

The real question is will you be able to sort out the mess if Zcash decides not to fork!?
A bigger team (IntenseCoin) made a right mess out of all the forking against ASICs so I am worried about the VoteCoin team capabilities which, I believe, has much smaller team. Please reassure us Smiley

Better to be prepared than sorry.

For now I translate such answer as ASICs are welcome to ruin our project/network. A good time to order some ASICs for tests after such answer Cheesy.

I agree with your concern !
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May 04, 2018, 07:36:49 PM
 #1227

For Zcash maybe, but for 0.5MSol/s VOT network only 50 such miners needed to get control over (or ruin?) the network!

Lets try some math.
Current VoteCoin network hash rate is 500 Ksol/s.
Bitmain's Equihash miner costs around $2200 including PSU and shipping, while the miner is capable of mining 10Ksol/s.

To get over 50% of hashrate of VoteCoin network, you need to generate another 500 Ksol/s.
You would have to buy 50 such ASIC miners, so the cost would be 110 000 USD.
(not mentioning that bitmain will sell only 1 device to a single user)
(not mentioning that having 51% of hashrate does NOT ruin the network at all)

If you want to get the same hashrate with GTX 1060 cards, you would need 1666 such cards (300 Sol per card), which would cost you around 400 000 USD today.
So ASIC gives you only 4x the hashrate for your money.
Not mentioning that once the bitmain's ASICs are released, the price for used GPUs will decrease rapidly and you may get 1666 such cards for say 200 000 USD while still getting several years warranty, compared to bitmain's 180 days.

In long term, the ASICs will consume less energy, indeed, so it will be more profitable that GPUs, but other than that, the advantage of having bitmain's ASIC boxes will be insignificant.

-Tom

VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
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May 04, 2018, 07:41:06 PM
 #1228

The real question is will you be able to sort out the mess if Zcash decides not to fork!?
A bigger team (IntenseCoin) made a right mess out of all the forking against ASICs so I am worried about the VoteCoin team capabilities which, I believe, has much smaller team. Please reassure us Smiley

Exactly for this reason we plan to stick with whatever ZCash decides to do - we will simply adopt their changes and we're happy to go.
-Tom

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May 04, 2018, 08:36:27 PM
 #1229

For Zcash maybe, but for 0.5MSol/s VOT network only 50 such miners needed to get control over (or ruin?) the network!

Lets try some math.
Current VoteCoin network hash rate is 500 Ksol/s.
Bitmain's Equihash miner costs around $2200 including PSU and shipping, while the miner is capable of mining 10Ksol/s.

To get over 50% of hashrate of VoteCoin network, you need to generate another 500 Ksol/s.
You would have to buy 50 such ASIC miners, so the cost would be 110 000 USD.
(not mentioning that bitmain will sell only 1 device to a single user)
(not mentioning that having 51% of hashrate does NOT ruin the network at all)

If you want to get the same hashrate with GTX 1060 cards, you would need 1666 such cards (300 Sol per card), which would cost you around 400 000 USD today.
So ASIC gives you only 4x the hashrate for your money.
Not mentioning that once the bitmain's ASICs are released, the price for used GPUs will decrease rapidly and you may get 1666 such cards for say 200 000 USD while still getting several years warranty, compared to bitmain's 180 days.

In long term, the ASICs will consume less energy, indeed, so it will be more profitable that GPUs, but other than that, the advantage of having bitmain's ASIC boxes will be insignificant.

-Tom


This is completely not true at all about bitmain limits. If you are a bulk buyer you can buy as many as you want and receive same day as everyone ordering 1. Alibaba trusted resellers are already listing these for presale guaranteeing same day delivery as ordering from bitmain.

ASICs are not the future, and for a coin like this where decentralization is a major factor and you are in favor of centralization, then there is a huge reason for this coin to not become a main use coin. There are plenty of other coins similar that will fight centralization, but you are not going to fight centralization then what is the point of using your coin? Your coin will most likely be hit with several attacks, due to the small size of your coin, and 50 ASICs is nothing compared to what bitmain is selling and has running.
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May 04, 2018, 09:20:36 PM
 #1230

Asic are more green consuming less power the progress is inevitable,  me as a miner trusting on my machine to confirm and secure the net I'm just leaving this project and all the equihash and cryptonight algo.
For the point of votecoin they can't do too much creating a fresh algo wold be too much work to do so was expecting no drastic changes.
Gpu is for flexibility and that's what we do mine good and worth project. 
Good luck everyone!
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May 05, 2018, 08:34:52 AM
 #1231

This is completely not true at all about bitmain limits. If you are a bulk buyer you can buy as many as you want and receive same day as everyone ordering 1. Alibaba trusted resellers are already listing these for presale guaranteeing same day delivery as ordering from bitmain.

Well, I just stated what I read on bitmain's official announcement:
"to prevent hoarding and to let more individuals worldwide get one, we've set a limit of one miner per user"
https://twitter.com/BITMAINtech/status/992034662875779072


for a coin like this where decentralization is a major factor and you are in favor of centralization, then there is a huge reason for this coin to not become a main use coin. There are plenty of other coins similar that will fight centralization, but you are not going to fight centralization then what is the point of using your coin?

Maybe you are confusing VoteCoin with bitcoinz. VoteCoin is indeed decentralized, but we do not stress our marketing on the "decentralization" idea. Instead, we implement features useful for voting.


Your coin will most likely be hit with several attacks, due to the small size of your coin, and 50 ASICs is nothing compared to what bitmain is selling and has running.

You are spreading fear without understanding the reality at all. There are NO new attacks possibilities when ASIC comes into play. As I explained earlier, if you wish so spend money buying ASICs from bitmain to get 500 KSol/s hashrate (to gain 50% of VoteCoin network hashrate, which itself means nothing bad in general), you would need to spend around 110 000 USD. Nonetheless, you can go to nicehash.com today and purchase equihash hashing power of 500 Ksol/s for 24 hours for only $1955 as of now. All the "apocalyptic scenarios" you are talking about could already happen now, for cheap, regardless of ASIC. So please ...

-Tom

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May 05, 2018, 12:11:09 PM
 #1232

Tom, with all respect, but IntenseCoin network had 51% attack just 2 weeks ago: https://intensecoin.com/2018/04/16/imminent-hard-fork-and-network-attack/
They ended up rolling back their blockchain and then forking it again! Another real mess with out-of-sync wallets for weeks and lockedown exchanges.

51% attacks are not that rare - I bet VOT community would like to know that you have the backup plan ready if sh*t happens. Better to learn on somebody's mistakes than on yourself ones.

Oh, there is another option for betting guys Smiley
- Community likes to know if the backup plan is in place
- Community pays no sh*t to it

And one more could be:
- VOT will get the backup plan
- Tom pays no sh*t to it Cheesy


Just rising some concerns ;-j and worries about blockchain to which I am not indifferent.
Tom, do I worry too much? Shall we relax and just watch how sh*t passes us by and hope(pray to saint Alt-Ctrl-Del?) that it will not stick to VOT? Smiley
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May 05, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
 #1233

Tom, with all respect, but IntenseCoin network had 51% attack just 2 weeks ago: https://intensecoin.com/2018/04/16/imminent-hard-fork-and-network-attack/
They ended up rolling back their blockchain and then forking it again! Another real mess with out-of-sync wallets for weeks and lockedown exchanges.

I know nothing about IntenseCoin internals. What I was able to learn from the article is this:
1) somebody gained significant hashing power and at the same time he exploited some weakness in IntenseCoin to find 6000 blocks himself.
2) IntenseCoin developers decided that this is bad and they made a hard fork, causing A LOT of troubles.

I believe that there are two problems. First one is the exploitable weakness, and second trouble is mad developers making hard fork as a solution for this problem.

If the very same problem happened with VoteCoin, 6000 blocks would be worth 750K VOT coins, which the "attacker" could actually sell at TradeSatoshi exchange to get 1.33 BTC.
The price of VOT would drop down to 100 sat. But that's the worst case scenario. Nobody gets hurt. All coins held by all users would be safe. There would be no need for any hard forking in my opinion.

VoteCoin uses a dificulty adjustment algorithm based on DigiShield v3/v4 [DigiByte-PoW], with simplifications and altered parameters, to adjust difficulty to target the desired 2.5-minute block time. Unlike Bitcoin, the difficulty adjustment occurs after every block. So I would say that VoteCoin does not have such weakness as like IntenseCoin and it would prevent such situation anyway.

There is no need to fear the upcoming ASIC release...

-Tom

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May 05, 2018, 04:42:29 PM
 #1234

Tom, thanks for the detailed clarification. Much appreciated. Now it's clearer picture (at least for me) Wink
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May 05, 2018, 05:36:00 PM
 #1235

We should try go get listed on bitfinex like BitcoinInterest... They was only on TS and next was Bitfinex, so maybe it's a chance have some liquidity Wink

.BEST.CHANGE..███████████████
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..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
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May 05, 2018, 05:41:02 PM
 #1236

It seems that listing on Open Ledger DEX is free, maybe submit the application form?

https://dex.openledger.info/welcome

Thanks for your suggestion.
Application submitted.

VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
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May 05, 2018, 05:41:47 PM
 #1237

We should try go get listed on bitfinex like BitcoinInterest... They was only on TS and next was Bitfinex, so maybe it's a chance have some liquidity Wink

We've already applied to get listed on Bitfinex.

VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
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May 05, 2018, 05:48:56 PM
 #1238

We should try go get listed on bitfinex like BitcoinInterest... They was only on TS and next was Bitfinex, so maybe it's a chance have some liquidity Wink

We've already applied to get listed on Bitfinex.
Have they answered? It's very interesting Smiley

.BEST.CHANGE..███████████████
██
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██
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██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
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..BUY/ SELL CRYPTO..
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May 05, 2018, 09:55:12 PM
 #1239

Tom, with all respect, but IntenseCoin network had 51% attack just 2 weeks ago: https://intensecoin.com/2018/04/16/imminent-hard-fork-and-network-attack/
They ended up rolling back their blockchain and then forking it again! Another real mess with out-of-sync wallets for weeks and lockedown exchanges.

I know nothing about IntenseCoin internals. What I was able to learn from the article is this:
1) somebody gained significant hashing power and at the same time he exploited some weakness in IntenseCoin to find 6000 blocks himself.
2) IntenseCoin developers decided that this is bad and they made a hard fork, causing A LOT of troubles.

I believe that there are two problems. First one is the exploitable weakness, and second trouble is mad developers making hard fork as a solution for this problem.

If the very same problem happened with VoteCoin, 6000 blocks would be worth 750K VOT coins, which the "attacker" could actually sell at TradeSatoshi exchange to get 1.33 BTC.
The price of VOT would drop down to 100 sat. But that's the worst case scenario. Nobody gets hurt. All coins held by all users would be safe. There would be no need for any hard forking in my opinion.

VoteCoin uses a dificulty adjustment algorithm based on DigiShield v3/v4 [DigiByte-PoW], with simplifications and altered parameters, to adjust difficulty to target the desired 2.5-minute block time. Unlike Bitcoin, the difficulty adjustment occurs after every block. So I would say that VoteCoin does not have such weakness as like IntenseCoin and it would prevent such situation anyway.

There is no need to fear the upcoming ASIC release...

-Tom

The problem is not at all in this. The fact is that the company Bitmain (manufacturer AsicS - supports for the door, hair dryer, heater) just gets rid of used Asics, to sell greedy idiots who want easy money and who eventually lose their money by buying a large calculator that quickly losing profitability.
In place of old Asics new more powerful ones will come and if you do not change the algorithm (and I understand why - you use their ZEC network (hello t1) and do what they do? But the greedy Zcash team gets 2.5 coins from each block all the same, even better.
And what's the benefit to you? Do you know what will happen in the end? Bitmain with its ASICs will absorb the whole algorithm, all ordinary users will leave you. And you will have one member named Bitmain (hello Bitcoin, Bitcoin Cash, Dash). Electroneum for this reason decided to hold a hard fork for began to lose its community.
I, as a holder of Votecoin, are not indifferent to the fate of the coin. So I advise you to think over my words Tom.

Sorry for my English, I write this with Google translate
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May 06, 2018, 06:12:32 AM
 #1240

And what's the benefit to you? Do you know what will happen in the end? Bitmain with its ASICs will absorb the whole algorithm, all ordinary users will leave you.

I do not agree with your conclusions.
Bitmain will not "absorb whole algorithm".
If bitmain's Z9 miners are successfull and if all ordinary users switch to Z9 miners instead of GPU, then the entire network will be mined with Z9. But that means nothing wrong. It has nothing to do with Bitmain company, they will not absorb anything. Each user will choose his preferred pool.

From what I've read so far in emails and facebook messages and other posts, it looks like people freak out about the upcoming ASICs, it looks like the majority of people think it is very big problem, while I do not share this negative attitude, really, there is no need to be afraid of ASICs in my opinion.

VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
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