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Author Topic: [ANN][VOT]: VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy  (Read 78546 times)
Skydreamer
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May 06, 2018, 07:46:39 PM
 #1241

And what's the benefit to you? Do you know what will happen in the end? Bitmain with its ASICs will absorb the whole algorithm, all ordinary users will leave you.

I do not agree with your conclusions.
Bitmain will not "absorb whole algorithm".
If bitmain's Z9 miners are successfull and if all ordinary users switch to Z9 miners instead of GPU, then the entire network will be mined with Z9. But that means nothing wrong. It has nothing to do with Bitmain company, they will not absorb anything. Each user will choose his preferred pool.

From what I've read so far in emails and facebook messages and other posts, it looks like people freak out about the upcoming ASICs, it looks like the majority of people think it is very big problem, while I do not share this negative attitude, really, there is no need to be afraid of ASICs in my opinion.

Tom, not to lead a long dialogue, answer a simple question. Do you have the ability to change the algorithm yourself? Yes or no? As I understand you do not have such a technical opportunity, so why then all this to discuss, just admit it, and that you are completely dependent on the network Zcash.
As I said before Zcash does not care, because its 2,
5 coins from each block they already get. Votecoin in the first place became famous thanks to miners, who spread the information about your coin. Asic for the average user is a high-risk device. Profitability falls quickly and it becomes worthless. Everything will come to the conclusion that Votecoin will produce large factories and huge farms,
and the community you lose, I guarantee you, there are lots of examples. You are not zcash, ethereum, siacoin, and others who can calmly take it, for all have long been known and have a great capitalization.

Asics are in the majority large factories and not thousands of people with their graphic cards
cjl1984
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May 07, 2018, 10:39:55 AM
 #1242

The concept of the project is very good, and also meets the actual needs of future development, and the future is full of potential.
votecoin.site (OP)
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May 07, 2018, 02:01:16 PM
Last edit: May 07, 2018, 04:25:04 PM by votecoin.site
 #1243

Tom, not to lead a long dialogue, answer a simple question. Do you have the ability to change the algorithm yourself? Yes or no?
Yes, of course, I have the abilities to change the algo myself.
To make my life easier, I could even wait for some other project based on Zcash to change the algo, and then backport their changes.
But simply following zcash's direction is easiest (and in my opinion most correct) approach.
Those ASIC machines released by Bitmain are in no way comparable to the power of bitcoin's ASICs, Z9 provides only ~4x advantage over GPUs, so I do not really understand why are people so overreacting.
-Tom

VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
Ainars
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May 07, 2018, 08:29:44 PM
 #1244

Yes, of course, I have the abilities to change the algo myself.

That is actually good news as I left with impression that you kinda would struggle to change the algo and therefore piggytailing on ZEC.

Z9 provides only ~4x advantage over GPUs, so I do not really understand why are people so overreacting.

It's more than just 4x hashing power. It is 10x less power consumption. 10x time less heat and therefore 10x less heat extraction. also quite a space saver too. ASICs have lots of advantages against GPUs, but lets leave ASIC advantages alone and look on community itself.
I see @Skydreamer points/worries. Ordinal miners or just curious people have an option to try and mine VOT and have a play and test it. Somebody with just a single GPU can get involved in VOT.
If VOT becomes ASIC driven then you lose out those people and community - running ASIC is a business so if VOT is more of a business project then that's ok, just say it Smiley. People would like to know what to do, to leave VOT community or in contrary, join it with ASIC power Smiley. What direction are we going?
There are some thoughts for you Tom: if you make it ASIC resistant then lots of miners may soon join you. If you do not make it ASIC resistant then ASIC farms will join and so part of community may leave. I am not sure which route is best though. Maybe the best one is the one you are doing - just wait and see Smiley, but some may hate such waiting games. There is no way you can please us all Wink.
BetwithVotecoin
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May 07, 2018, 09:18:03 PM
 #1245

Hello all, I bring a little fun into your serious discussion Smiley

Hockey bets (IIHF Wold Championship)
https://votecoin.bet/hockey/iihf.html

Good luck!
Sparty3
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May 07, 2018, 10:04:41 PM
 #1246

Seems funny that all the community can't get to a point on the algorithm....
Make it easy guys just try to figure out if the Dev is hearing the community or vice versa
We just use the coin as it is, here we are talking for no reason let's make Tom start a poll and the community will decide as long with the dev
Asic coin Vs gpu coin,  I guess everyone have this in mind when we get and use VOTECOIN.

Hope for a better future of home mining and owning of votecoin
Skydreamer
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May 08, 2018, 11:40:25 PM
 #1247

Yes, of course, I have the abilities to change the algo myself.

That is actually good news as I left with impression that you kinda would struggle to change the algo and therefore piggytailing on ZEC.

Z9 provides only ~4x advantage over GPUs, so I do not really understand why are people so overreacting.

It's more than just 4x hashing power. It is 10x less power consumption. 10x time less heat and therefore 10x less heat extraction. also quite a space saver too. ASICs have lots of advantages against GPUs, but lets leave ASIC advantages alone and look on community itself.
I see @Skydreamer points/worries. Ordinal miners or just curious people have an option to try and mine VOT and have a play and test it. Somebody with just a single GPU can get involved in VOT.
If VOT becomes ASIC driven then you lose out those people and community - running ASIC is a business so if VOT is more of a business project then that's ok, just say it Smiley. People would like to know what to do, to leave VOT community or in contrary, join it with ASIC power Smiley. What direction are we going?
There are some thoughts for you Tom: if you make it ASIC resistant then lots of miners may soon join you. If you do not make it ASIC resistant then ASIC farms will join and so part of community may leave. I am not sure which route is best though. Maybe the best one is the one you are doing - just wait and see Smiley, but some may hate such waiting games. There is no way you can please us all Wink.


Most of the above is absolutely true, you clearly conveyed the idea that I wanted to convey
Skydreamer
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May 09, 2018, 07:41:48 PM
 #1248

Tom, with all respect, but IntenseCoin network had 51% attack just 2 weeks ago: https://intensecoin.com/2018/04/16/imminent-hard-fork-and-network-attack/
They ended up rolling back their blockchain and then forking it again! Another real mess with out-of-sync wallets for weeks and lockedown exchanges.

I know nothing about IntenseCoin internals. What I was able to learn from the article is this:
1) somebody gained significant hashing power and at the same time he exploited some weakness in IntenseCoin to find 6000 blocks himself.
2) IntenseCoin developers decided that this is bad and they made a hard fork, causing A LOT of troubles.

I believe that there are two problems. First one is the exploitable weakness, and second trouble is mad developers making hard fork as a solution for this problem.

If the very same problem happened with VoteCoin, 6000 blocks would be worth 750K VOT coins, which the "attacker" could actually sell at TradeSatoshi exchange to get 1.33 BTC.
The price of VOT would drop down to 100 sat. But that's the worst case scenario. Nobody gets hurt. All coins held by all users would be safe. There would be no need for any hard forking in my opinion.

VoteCoin uses a dificulty adjustment algorithm based on DigiShield v3/v4 [DigiByte-PoW], with simplifications and altered parameters, to adjust difficulty to target the desired 2.5-minute block time. Unlike Bitcoin, the difficulty adjustment occurs after every block. So I would say that VoteCoin does not have such weakness as like IntenseCoin and it would prevent such situation anyway.

There is no need to fear the upcoming ASIC release...

-Tom

"The Zcash Foundation has announced that it will make maintaining ASIC resistance an “immediate technical priority” in response to Chinese mining hardware manufacturer Bitmain’s claim that is has developed an application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) miner that is compatible with the Equihash mining algorithm."
https://www.ccn.com/zcash-foundation-to-make-asic-resistance-immediate-technical-priority/
BTCZ, Snowgem, Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Private, possibly Hush, Zencash want to change algorithm. 

Still thinking about staying on equihash?
pit_vk
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May 09, 2018, 07:42:47 PM
 #1249

I think it would be very interesting if the community decided through voting the possibility of maintaining anti-asicc voting. In order to demonstrate that voting works. In addition, if the asics are rejected, the community would grow creating a greater diversity of miners and improving the distribution of currency. And being the first to reject asicc using equihash could increase the credibility and value of this currency.
votecoin.site (OP)
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May 09, 2018, 07:44:40 PM
 #1250


"The Zcash Foundation has announced that it will make maintaining ASIC resistance an “immediate technical priority” in response to Chinese mining hardware manufacturer Bitmain’s claim that is has developed an application-specific integrated circuit (ASIC) miner that is compatible with the Equihash mining algorithm."
https://www.ccn.com/zcash-foundation-to-make-asic-resistance-immediate-technical-priority/
BTCZ, Snowgem, Bitcoin Gold, Bitcoin Private, possibly Hush, Zencash want to change algorithm.  

Still thinking about staying on equihash?


Let me quote one of Tom's previous posts:

Exactly for this reason we plan to stick with whatever ZCash decides to do - we will simply adopt their changes and we're happy to go.
-Tom

VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
Bratz
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May 10, 2018, 09:36:58 PM
 #1251

So Votecoin gets listed on Bit-z or is it for voting coins that will get listed on Bit-Z?
WR-104
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May 10, 2018, 11:55:35 PM
 #1252

How in past wallets (for ex. 1.0.15) to see a list of all addresses belonging to the wallet? I can't find the correct command.
Using votecoin-cli getaddressesbyaccount "" I can't get it
punkoivan
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May 11, 2018, 08:10:24 AM
 #1253

How in past wallets (for ex. 1.0.15) to see a list of all addresses belonging to the wallet? I can't find the correct command.
Using votecoin-cli getaddressesbyaccount "" I can't get it

As Tom said before, old wallet and the new one is NOT compatible, you have to

1. Generate new address via new wallet. Copy.
2. Load old wallet with coins
3. Transfer from old wallet to address from (1)
4. Check in new wallet that all amount received
5. Use only new wallet now.

https://NibiruPool.com
WR-104
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May 11, 2018, 08:23:55 AM
 #1254

How in past wallets (for ex. 1.0.15) to see a list of all addresses belonging to the wallet? I can't find the correct command.
Using votecoin-cli getaddressesbyaccount "" I can't get it

As Tom said before, old wallet and the new one is NOT compatible, you have to

I have the wallet version V1.0.15 and I want to see a list of all the addresses in it.
brooklynite1
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May 11, 2018, 04:20:50 PM
 #1255

For Zcash maybe, but for 0.5MSol/s VOT network only 50 such miners needed to get control over (or ruin?) the network!

Lets try some math.
Current VoteCoin network hash rate is 500 Ksol/s.
Bitmain's Equihash miner costs around $2200 including PSU and shipping, while the miner is capable of mining 10Ksol/s.

To get over 50% of hashrate of VoteCoin network, you need to generate another 500 Ksol/s.
You would have to buy 50 such ASIC miners, so the cost would be 110 000 USD.
(not mentioning that bitmain will sell only 1 device to a single user)
(not mentioning that having 51% of hashrate does NOT ruin the network at all)

If you want to get the same hashrate with GTX 1060 cards, you would need 1666 such cards (300 Sol per card), which would cost you around 400 000 USD today.
So ASIC gives you only 4x the hashrate for your money.
Not mentioning that once the bitmain's ASICs are released, the price for used GPUs will decrease rapidly and you may get 1666 such cards for say 200 000 USD while still getting several years warranty, compared to bitmain's 180 days.

In long term, the ASICs will consume less energy, indeed, so it will be more profitable that GPUs, but other than that, the advantage of having bitmain's ASIC boxes will be insignificant.

-Tom



What people are not understanding is that the real "cost" is the depreciation of assets.

A $4000 GPU rig today (6x1070) is worth $2800 next year, so net cost is $80/month
A $4000 ASIC miner (2xZ9) is worh $400 next year so net cost is $300/month


So asic costs 3.5 times. But the energy consumed, which is a big deal in US and Europe but not in China, is also 3.5x less.

Everyone assumes equipment have zero resale value when they count the NOI. In my case I always sell my GPU cards for almost the same price or just a little less than I buy them on sale. Its like leasing a car, a Lexus has 65% retained value VS a Mercedes has 55%, GPU has 30% and ASIC miner has 0% after 3 years of use.

WR-104
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May 11, 2018, 05:03:50 PM
 #1256

For Zcash maybe, but for 0.5MSol/s VOT network only 50 such miners needed to get control over (or ruin?) the network!

Lets try some math.
Current VoteCoin network hash rate is 500 Ksol/s.
Bitmain's Equihash miner costs around $2200 including PSU and shipping, while the miner is capable of mining 10Ksol/s.

To get over 50% of hashrate of VoteCoin network, you need to generate another 500 Ksol/s.
You would have to buy 50 such ASIC miners, so the cost would be 110 000 USD.
(not mentioning that bitmain will sell only 1 device to a single user)
(not mentioning that having 51% of hashrate does NOT ruin the network at all)

If you want to get the same hashrate with GTX 1060 cards, you would need 1666 such cards (300 Sol per card), which would cost you around 400 000 USD today.
So ASIC gives you only 4x the hashrate for your money.
Not mentioning that once the bitmain's ASICs are released, the price for used GPUs will decrease rapidly and you may get 1666 such cards for say 200 000 USD while still getting several years warranty, compared to bitmain's 180 days.

In long term, the ASICs will consume less energy, indeed, so it will be more profitable that GPUs, but other than that, the advantage of having bitmain's ASIC boxes will be insignificant.

-Tom



What people are not understanding is that the real "cost" is the depreciation of assets.

A $4000 GPU rig today (6x1070) is worth $2800 next year, so net cost is $80/month
A $4000 ASIC miner (2xZ9) is worh $400 next year so net cost is $300/month


So asic costs 3.5 times. But the energy consumed, which is a big deal in US and Europe but not in China, is also 3.5x less.

Everyone assumes equipment have zero resale value when they count the NOI. In my case I always sell my GPU cards for almost the same price or just a little less than I buy them on sale. Its like leasing a car, a Lexus has 65% retained value VS a Mercedes has 55%, GPU has 30% and ASIC miner has 0% after 3 years of use.

can you give real examples that confirm your words?
brooklynite1
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May 11, 2018, 05:25:20 PM
 #1257

For Zcash maybe, but for 0.5MSol/s VOT network only 50 such miners needed to get control over (or ruin?) the network!

Lets try some math.
Current VoteCoin network hash rate is 500 Ksol/s.
Bitmain's Equihash miner costs around $2200 including PSU and shipping, while the miner is capable of mining 10Ksol/s.

To get over 50% of hashrate of VoteCoin network, you need to generate another 500 Ksol/s.
You would have to buy 50 such ASIC miners, so the cost would be 110 000 USD.
(not mentioning that bitmain will sell only 1 device to a single user)
(not mentioning that having 51% of hashrate does NOT ruin the network at all)

If you want to get the same hashrate with GTX 1060 cards, you would need 1666 such cards (300 Sol per card), which would cost you around 400 000 USD today.
So ASIC gives you only 4x the hashrate for your money.
Not mentioning that once the bitmain's ASICs are released, the price for used GPUs will decrease rapidly and you may get 1666 such cards for say 200 000 USD while still getting several years warranty, compared to bitmain's 180 days.

In long term, the ASICs will consume less energy, indeed, so it will be more profitable that GPUs, but other than that, the advantage of having bitmain's ASIC boxes will be insignificant.

-Tom



What people are not understanding is that the real "cost" is the depreciation of assets.

A $4000 GPU rig today (6x1070) is worth $2800 next year, so net cost is $80/month
A $4000 ASIC miner (2xZ9) is worh $400 next year so net cost is $300/month


So asic costs 3.5 times. But the energy consumed, which is a big deal in US and Europe but not in China, is also 3.5x less.

Everyone assumes equipment have zero resale value when they count the NOI. In my case I always sell my GPU cards for almost the same price or just a little less than I buy them on sale. Its like leasing a car, a Lexus has 65% retained value VS a Mercedes has 55%, GPU has 30% and ASIC miner has 0% after 3 years of use.

can you give real examples that confirm your words?


You seriously need proof?
X11 Miner announced at $2700 (July of 2017):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2029822.0


Bitmain not sending out the units as late as Oct 2017 because they are still profitable to mine with and Bitmain still mining with them in cleanrooms, (What the fuck, are they retarded to ship them out? why would they??):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2029822.3620

X11 Miner Arrived in the hands of the 1st people who purchased (Nov of 2017) at $2700:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA7lGe_jY7M

X11 Miner sold for $200 (May of 2018):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-Bitmain-Antminer-D3-19-3gh-s-X11-Dash-Miner-Tested-Working/232761673532?epid=14019131864&hash=item3631ad473c:g:9YMAAOSwQO9a8cen

5 months from $2700 to $200 thats $500/month for owning a D3 ASIC miner. Dumbest thing ever and they didnt even fork to disable the ASICs. The case is a lot worse if someone bought a Monero ASIC or Baikal.

Bitmain mined with that ASIC from say June to Nov with low difficulty and made probably $2000 off of each ASIC plus $2700 from its sale thats $4700.
The miners who bought the ASIC made around $800 from Nov to May after electricity so they lost $1900 per ASIC and now its breakeven with electricity cost so its just speculative mining.

To Compare: 5 months ago I paid $3250 for my 7 card GTX1070 miner which is worth pretty much the same today my GPU RIG cost around $0 per month.

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May 12, 2018, 08:07:29 AM
 #1258

I have the wallet version V1.0.15 and I want to see a list of all the addresses in it.
for shielded addresses, use:
votecoin-cli z_listaddresses

for transparent addresses, probably best is to use:
votecoin-cli listunspent

-Tom

VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy
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May 12, 2018, 03:49:31 PM
 #1259

If you wanna receive donation from community for another one exchange there is no way. Smiley
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May 13, 2018, 08:22:20 AM
 #1260

Hi Everyone, Have made a new video on how to set up polls! Hope you enjoy and share with anyone it may help.

Votecoin - How to make polls, bets, crowdfunds etc https://youtu.be/q-5FZjwHqg4

Please check out the other videos on my chan for info on votecoin.

Check out my YouTube chan here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEKi5UIGkX2ctFiGUhhxR1Q for Qortal News QORT: QRk5TG57SQGLkybXUqxBnobADTFGj9GR3Z
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