[ANN] Datacoin - Censorship-Free Data Storage

[deathmul]

Maybe we should try to make investor pay attention to Datacoin? Marketing like signature advertisment? Clear witepaper, colaboration with another coins?

[1714125721]

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[Verionum]

Okay, my vagueness at fault: Datacoin (in common with torrenthash) has only structural metadata, there is no descriptive metadata and that's what's blocking the development of a "nice little app" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metadata)

I have understood now. But I think it is very good that data storage metadata are not included in blockchain rules. It allows freedom to users.

It is not weakness of dtc. It is a power of dtc. It can be used by many different ways without metadata overhead because of such fundamentally raw storage.

DTC offer only very raw storage. It allows to use dtc for very general various purposes.


It is good that ordinary hdd don't restrict users with one filesytem. But users can make and have any selected filesystem above raw hdd structure.

Dtc can be used the same way. Someone want metadata. So he create your own standard for data and use it. If this standard is useful then other users use it also.

But if someone wants another standard then he makes it.

If someone wants encrypted non understandable (by other) data then he makes so.

Finally. I agree that data structure rules can be very useful, but I think it must not be included in blockchain rules. It must be user side rules. But of course many users can be in agreed and share the same rules for same purposes (f.e. for file saving).

But if someone wants and can to use dtc for some very mad purpose he can make it over dtc blockchain. And he will not have unnecessary metadata overhead.

[Verionum]

There are many new altcoins with many additional functionality at present time. Such additional functionality is strong ruled in their blockchain rules. I think many of such functionality can be realized over dtc blockchain because of its very raw data storage nature.

But many of dtc applications cannot be realized in such altcoins in reverse order. It is because of such additional blockchain level rules.

If metadata means such blockchain levels rules that limit application of dtc or add overhead then I against it.

May be I still misunderstood something.

I think it is not possible to create standard metadata rules and demand its obeying to all users. And it is normal.

[Verionum]

Finally. The single file saving rules are impossible and not needed.

Blockchain with "nonstrongruled and nonmetadata" data is already exist.

I think it is normal to create tool for saving files with some elementary algorithms without metadata.

It is not prevent to create some other saving algorithms with metadata a little later.

All this algorithms can be and must be to live in peace. )))

And it is normal. )

[Chicago]

Finally. The single file saving rules are impossible and not needed.
Blockchain with "nonstrongruled and nonmetadata" data is already exist.
I think it is normal to create tool for saving files with some elementary algorithms without metadata.
It is not prevent to create some other saving algorithms with metadata a little later.
All this algorithms can be and must be to live in peace. )))
And it is normal. )

The consensus rules must continue to promote arbitrary data as a valid structure; metadata scraping will enable a layer of abstraction to bring order from chaos.
Since indexes and maps are also valid arbitrary data our consensus rules will enable all of them to live in peace.

[gjhiggins]

Finally. The single file saving rules are impossible and not needed.

Blockchain with "nonstrongruled and nonmetadata" data is already exist.

I think it is normal to create tool for saving files with some elementary algorithms without metadata.

It is not prevent to create some other saving algorithms with metadata a little later.

All this algorithms can be and must be to live in peace. )))

And it is normal. )

Sure, sure. But that's not the point I was making. The point that I was making is that a "nice little app" isn't quite the low-hanging fruit in this instance.

Cheers

Graham

[DataSea]

Hi Team,

I Love you all -- this soul searching is exactly what we need right now

I grapple with everything everyone is talking about, from the bag holders (note that Bitcoin had the same "problem") to the creation of a killer app (Apertus isn't quite there, but is close, it needs coders).

This open conversation is much needed -- this is a moment of cross roads. We have what looks like a very strong wallet and now the possibilities are opening for us -- it makes the mind race

My advice is to stay the course. We may have some bag holders, but these are not problems, these are points of stability.  If we wanted to crash the market or do something nefarious, it would've already been done. And as Extro points out, the network will be creating many many more Datacoin over the years, new users will be able to mine and buy. These bag holders are better described as first movers/investors, and a starting point to jump-start the network, and hold things steady in tough times, and invest in coders/developer.

Full disclosure --> HugPuddle main wallets addy's are    DDEoXWj5vzWPSYuYrq7gXZ2Pr3uLY8TmH6 and D7eCCMDXp8Efwcp2e9AmWo5rq5ep8q5zcb which total just under 900,000 Datacoin (about 2.5%).
We mined when no one else was mining -- we kept Datacoin alive for a very long time. This type of dedication should be rewarded, for not just us, but for everyone that takes risk of their mining gear and money. We are not bag-holders, we are stabilizers. And benevolent ones at that. We have no wish to market manipulate or screw over new comers. In fact, it's one of my buy orders on FreiExchange to get more for archiving reason, AND to steady the market a bit -- not dump on anyone
Note that Bitcoin has the same "problem" but they do not suffer from it -- they benefit from it as these larger holders are the ones putting on conferences, coding, and spending their coin to make the network work. We have coin for archiving, but others are slated to sustain a developer full-time when the market is right. Please recognize this. These bags are for everyone!

Our primary reason for involvement in Datacoin is this --> Cypherpunk Blockchain tech is a candle in a time of darkness. History is constantly re-written. Datacoin is immutable. The People need this. Truth needs this. We at HugPuddle are here to give people tools to tell their story for all of time to see.

Our main site needs work, but please check out the Apertus code https://github.com/HugPuddle/Apertus
It solves the problem that Verionum and gjhiggins describe -- Apertus uses the final transaction ID (the Root ID) as the starting point to extract ANY file from the Datacoin blockchain.

For instance -- I went to Wind River Valley last summer to see the Eclipse -- i took this photo and etched it on Datacoin:



You can view this directly on the Datacoin blockchain by entering the Root ID 615c5a19e660c179fd87ecdb2feca8a95a290a289147076400242837706bab6c into the Apertus browser

Or view it on bitFossil --> http://bitfossil.org/615c5a19e660c179fd87ecdb2feca8a95a290a289147076400242837706bab6c/index.htm
bitFossil is simply a webpage that is pulling data from live blockchains ... they are blockpages

This all needs work -- but note that the problem of how to encode data on Datacoin has been solved by using a Root ID as the master transaction ID.

These are exciting times and I'm so happy to see everyone be so honest and upfront about their feelings and opinions. This is how projects have success -- with honesty.
Datacoin has come a long way -- like a weary sailor on a rough rough sea, we are now about to make landfall <3

Kind Regards,
The DataSea

(aka DatacoinMiner --> aka The AtomSea)

[Verionum]

It is very interesting. How many excitements. People defend their investments.
hehe )))

Main question.

Can bitfossil.org allow dtc images redirecting for embedding the images in pages on other sites?

For example to embed any such images in post of this forum?

Returning to flood )

Stabilizing is very good. I don't assert anything final. I just try to  reveal some of possible problems.

For example for few previous years a few users was mining dtc.

DTC was almost dead. Now it may reborn.

But the situation is very strange.

It is different from premine. But it is a little similar with premine. But it is like a super premine for a few years!

It can turn away many of new users.

[extro24]

This open conversation is much needed -- this is a moment of cross roads. We have what looks like a very strong wallet and now the possibilities are opening for us -- it makes the mind race

Yes, I think we first have to see the consequences of having the Datacoin Core wallet.  Already we have seen radically shortened syncing times, encouraging more miners.  We have also seen a rock solid network, which is passing all the "stress tests" that Apertus.io throws at it.  This kind of "industrial" blockchain gives great confidence when one starts to think of smart contracts and mission critical systems.

DTC was almost dead. Now it may reborn.

The dynamic difficulty adjustment algorithm has a strange byproduct in that it promotes mining during times of low Datacoin prices.  This is because the block reward increases, encouraging "lone wolf" miners like myself who actually jumped into mining when very few people seemed interested.  The stability of the Core client also means that the network will remain stable at times of low miner activity, which was not always the case in the past.  I am convinced that the overall effect will be a very strong blockchain.

But I do believe it is now time to think about more audacious development.  We have to start a conversation about anonymity and smart contracts.  All coins face these issues.  How easy would it be, say, to copy the relevant sections of the Ethereum code into Datacoin?  And add the routines from, say, Monero to the client?  I honestly believe we have enough developers to start looking at these issues, and that such activity will attract even more talent.

Please share your thoughts.
-extro

[Verionum]

My main fear is following.

The dtc source code is open (and it is good).

But anyone can use this code to make his own fork, his own new blockchain, his own coin with other algorithm and with similar data saving idea.

I can do it. But I don't want it. But we need to do something.

And it is not obligatory scam developer. It can be serious developer or development team.

Why such team would help us with dtc? Why such team would use the current dtc? Dtc doesn't have significant audience.

It is more meaningful for them to create a new project.

Dtc can die at any moment if someone create such project. It can be more attractive for new users.

[extro24]

My main fear is following.

The dtc source code is open (and it is good).

But anyone can use this code to make his own fork, his own new blockchain, his own coin with other algorithm and with similar data saving idea.

I can do it. But I don't want it. But we need to do something.

And it is not obligatory scam developer. It can be serious developer or development team.

Why such team would help us with dtc? Why such team would use the current dtc? Dtc doesn't have significant audience.

It is more meaningful for them to create a new project.

Dtc can die at any moment if someone create such project. It can be more attractive for new users.

What we need to do is to add anonymity and smart contracts to Datacoin.  That is how relatively small coins like Neo and Sumokoin gained prominence. 

[wishman93]

That is amazing.  Awesome to see Datacoin integrated into Hyperledger.

IBM has been driving Hyperledger into business applications.  We solve so many problems with this integration.

[Verionum]

What we need to do is to add anonymity and smart contracts to Datacoin.  That is how relatively small coins like Neo and Sumokoin gained prominence. 

I don't have such expirience. Can smart contracts be realized over dtc raw data storage? May be similar with realization of file systems over raw hdd storage.

If it is possible then it would be done without any fork.

Generally many ideas can be realized over raw dtc storage without any fork.

It is possible to create any different additional blokchains stored into dtc raw storage ) And it is very cool idea, I think.

[extro24]

What we need to do is to add anonymity and smart contracts to Datacoin.  That is how relatively small coins like Neo and Sumokoin gained prominence. 

I don't have such expirience. Can smart contracts be realized over dtc raw data storage? May be similar with realization of file systems over raw hdd storage.

If it is possible then it would be done without any fork.

Generally many ideas can be realized over raw dtc storage without any fork.

It is possible to create any different additional blokchains stored into dtc raw storage ) And it is very cool idea, I think.

I think we can now start to explore how this will be done.  I think you will agree that this is vital for the development of the coin.

I published something like a roadmap:  https://medium.com/@extro24/datacoin-dtc-roadmap-2018-5e2ec7494247

-extro

[DataSea]

It is very interesting. How many excitements. People defend their investments.
hehe )))

Main question.

Can bitfossil.org allow dtc images redirecting for embedding the images in pages on other sites?

For example to embed any such images in post of this forum?

Returning to flood )

Stabilizing is very good. I don't assert anything final. I just try to  reveal some of possible problems.

For example for few previous years a few users was mining dtc.

DTC was almost dead. Now it may reborn.

But the situation is very strange.

It is different from premine. But it is a little similar with premine. But it is like a super premine for a few years!

It can turn away many of new users.

Transparency is key.
My intentions and "wealth" are fully known -- I've made them clear even before this past disclosure -- that wasn't the first time I've been transparent.
If people come in knowing the truth of the matter, they have the right to choose -- i personally have no problem with people having lots of Datacoin if they are using it for the greater good and/or were the ones who literally kept the chain alive and invested a great deal of time and money (power, computers, and GPUs) to do so. Datacoin DIDN'T die because we were the ones who didn't let it. That is their reward for working hard and helping something get to where we are. That's what makes a Cypherpunk blockchain work

And absolutely you can use bitFossil for embeding images -- where do you think that image i posted came from?  
i merely put the image tags around http://bitfossil.org/615c5a19e660c179fd87ecdb2feca8a95a290a289147076400242837706bab6c/Eclipse%20Wind%20River%20Valley%20August%2021%202017%20by%20TheAtomSea.jpg  

Please check out the code of Apertus -- I think you'll approve -- and what you don't like, i look forward to you fixing <3

[DataSea]

What we need to do is to add anonymity and smart contracts to Datacoin.  That is how relatively small coins like Neo and Sumokoin gained prominence.  

I don't have such expirience. Can smart contracts be realized over dtc raw data storage? May be similar with realization of file systems over raw hdd storage.

If it is possible then it would be done without any fork.

Generally many ideas can be realized over raw dtc storage without any fork.

It is possible to create any different additional blokchains stored into dtc raw storage ) And it is very cool idea, I think.

Apertus has the start of tokenization of an asset.
You can see that even my etching of the eclipse is etched and "owned" by the signature "DB7yW39wkCHNerG3rAf4ZZk1b2Hba6SmAd".
This is the start of asset transfer, as that signature, is necessarily tied to my wallet -- with the proper wrappers, that could then be "traded", and with more wrappers, that could be part of a smart contract.

We can build on top of the chain with apps -- Apertus is barely scratching the surface

See how we even have the ability to tie the ownership to an image (which is tied to the signature I control)
http://bitfossil.org/615c5a19e660c179fd87ecdb2feca8a95a290a289147076400242837706bab6c/index.htm

[Verionum]

And absolutely you can use bitFossil for embeding images -- where do you think that image i posted came from?  
i merely put the image tags around http://bitfossil.org/615c5a19e660c179fd87ecdb2feca8a95a290a289147076400242837706bab6c/Eclipse%20Wind%20River%20Valley%20August%2021%202017%20by%20TheAtomSea.jpg  

Please check out the code of Apertus -- I think you'll approve -- and what you don't like, i look forward to you fixing <3

I mean can it dynamically extract the images from datacoin blockchain by arbitrary correct transaction hash and return it as jpeg file?

[DataSea]

See at this link Verionum -- I etched your original High Performance wallet on Datacoin using Apertus
http://bitfossil.org/eb9fe7f73fb7fa02893332a43e096df5791a5cf9ab6c93299322ba7e83698e5a/index.htm

You could do the etching yourself with your own identity anchor (it's a feature of Apertus), and it will forever be known it was your contribution.
But note I did this etching without any signature at all, and etched it with full attribution to you.

[Verionum]

See at this link Verionum -- I etched your original High Performance wallet on Datacoin using Apertus
http://bitfossil.org/eb9fe7f73fb7fa02893332a43e096df5791a5cf9ab6c93299322ba7e83698e5a/index.htm

You could do the etching yourself with your own identity anchor (it's a feature of Apertus), and it will forever be known it was your contribution.
But note I did this etching without any signature at all, and etched it with full attribution to you.

Good.

It is making dynamically? For any transaction hash?

I think we need it in transparent way. Without open other site in browser.

[DataSea]

And absolutely you can use bitFossil for embeding images -- where do you think that image i posted came from?  
i merely put the image tags around http://bitfossil.org/615c5a19e660c179fd87ecdb2feca8a95a290a289147076400242837706bab6c/Eclipse%20Wind%20River%20Valley%20August%2021%202017%20by%20TheAtomSea.jpg  

Please check out the code of Apertus -- I think you'll approve -- and what you don't like, i look forward to you fixing <3

I mean can it dynamically extract the images from datacoin blockchain by arbitrary correct transaction hash and return it as jpeg file?

At present, bitFossil is taking from a database that we have that uses Apertus to monitor all etchings in real time using a series of Apertus browsers that do that very thing.
It is our goal to eliminate that "middle-man" and have it be a direct pull using the Root ID, or dynamic, as you state on bitFossil.

Note that Apertus does this -- it is dynamic and active on the chain in real time.
It uses the Root ID to extract etchings that Apertus created -- you simply put the Root ID into the browser box -- Apertus is linked in real time with Datacoin -- it then pulls it up.