[Group Buy]12 KNCminer Jupiter's 15 Sold [Closed] Jupiter Pool

[MilkyLep]

...snip...
- Until now, these are the only expenses paid from the mining income: Hosting fee twice, management fee and penalty for paying hosting fee late. The programmer has not been paid for his work(wasn't finished).
- On Monday 20th of January, the day after Soniq has reported the outcome of all corrections, we can expect a 50% dividend payment of all dividend due by January 19th.
- Monday 27th of January, the day after I have reported the outcome of the second book check, we can expect the remainder of the 50% dividend payment due by January 19th.
- From Sunday 2nd of February weekly dividend payments will be done.

Soniq was very cooperative and wants to get this behind us. If he does what he promised, it will happen.

I'm looking forward to the numbers and accounts in the next update. It is sorely needed and vastly overdue.

Soniq, can you explain the bolded comment by BenTuras? Aren't all responsibilities such as payments, communication and accounting yours? Why was there a late payment for hosting and furthermore if you are taking a management fee shouldn't any penalties for the operation be subtracted from this management fee of yours?

And If I understand correctly February 2nd will include the dividends of January 20th to Feb 2nd?

[BenTuras]

...snip...
- Until now, these are the only expenses paid from the mining income: Hosting fee twice, management fee and penalty for paying hosting fee late. The programmer has not been paid for his work(wasn't finished).
- On Monday 20th of January, the day after Soniq has reported the outcome of all corrections, we can expect a 50% dividend payment of all dividend due by January 19th.
- Monday 27th of January, the day after I have reported the outcome of the second book check, we can expect the remainder of the 50% dividend payment due by January 19th.
- From Sunday 2nd of February weekly dividend payments will be done.

Soniq was very cooperative and wants to get this behind us. If he does what he promised, it will happen.

And If I understand correctly February 2nd will include the dividends of January 20th to Feb 2nd?

The answer to that question is in the italic part above. But I will try to make it even more clear:

Code:

       When   What
20-Jan-2014   50% of dividend due on 19-Jan-2014 (taking into account all corrections from the start of the GB till 19-Jan-2014)
27-Jan-2014   remaining 50% of dividend due on 19-Jan-2014(including corrections if I find errors)
02-Feb-2014   100% of dividend due on 01-Feb-2014 (so dividend accumulated until 01-Feb-2014 minus dividend already paid)
09-Feb-2014   100% of dividend due on 08-Feb-2014 (dividend accumulated until 08-Feb-2014 minus dividend already paid)
16-Feb-2014   100% of dividend due on 15-Feb-2014 (dividend accumulated until 15-Feb-2014 minus dividend already paid)
And from here on every week on the same day, the same event as above. Weekly payment of dividend.

Every time Soniq has one day to calculate the dividend and do the payment.

I know the scheme above is lenghty in time, but I think we all prefer correct and fair dividends compares to a rush job that could cause even more errors and anger.

Soniq agreed to the scheme above.

If he can't do a payment on one of the preset dates(because of holidays, sickness,....) he needs to post a message in this thread and mention the date the dividend will be calculated and paid.

[dutu]

Hi Soniq, Ben and other GB members,

I have received the message below from soniq

Hi

I havent released the books yet, but it appears that the whole GB has been overpaid  100 BTC out my personal income.  To 70 BTC still being owed.  So less than  $6000 yet to being paid out being worst case scenario.

So I would you appreciate you removing my personal information in a public forum.

Well, I have removed the personal information from the forum, as requested.

The dividend payouts and book keeping seams to be a big mess. I really hope soniq will take the time and seriousity to get this fixed now and that the calculation above is just part of the mess that will be fixed.




To bring to your attention missing dividend payments…

I mentioned before, I also own shares in the other group buy for KnC Jupiter (ADDICTION GB), which started mining DAY ONE just as our GB1.

As per dividend payouts I have received so far from soniq, return per 1 BTC invested is 0.51 BTC; in comparison ADDICTION GB has returned 0.69 BTC per BTC invested.
This means I am still missing 35% in dividend payouts from soniq.

I am posting here my logbook if anybody is interested in the details http://sdrv.ms/L1imNB

Now to give you an idea what this means for us as a GB:
I own 400 shares in GB1; GB1 consists of 45000 shares. Simple calculation shows that GB1 (only) is still missing dividend payments of 184 BTC, which at today’s BTC rate is 150 kUSD. And this is for GB1 only.
150 000 USD missing payments cannot be considered a small amount I believe.

Please let us have a proper calculation, something is seems to be wrong here!

[BenTuras]

Please let us have a proper calculation, something is seems to be wrong here!

Hi Dutu,
Please be patient, we are working on this. Soniq has agreed to the timeline in one of my previous messages and until now he is ahead of that schedule. I already received information and made a list of comments for him to work on.

[dutu]

I had a chat with Soniq on Skype. This is the outcome:
- He is getting help from agibby5 to solve all past issues. This will be ready before Sunday 10pm Ontario time and he will report the outcome to us here.
- When the check is ready, he will email me all information needed for me to do a double check. I will report back a week later, don't want to do a rush job.

Hi Ben,

Sorry I am addressing the communication to you as you seem to be Soniq's spokesperson (we had no communication from Soniq himself).
Are we still on-track with the activities, or any challenges?
Would appreciate feedback.

Thanks!

[Bitbuy]

Would like to know this as well; wouldn't look good to miss the first milestone....and no communication?

[BenTuras]

Hi Ben,

Sorry I am addressing the communication to you as you seem to be Soniq's spokesperson (we had no communication from Soniq himself).
Are we still on-track with the activities, or any challenges?
Would appreciate feedback.

Thanks!

I am not Soniqs spokesperson at all.
I am only helping the group buy and Soniq to get things back on track.

I contacted Soniq and he confirmed that payment will be done today, if agibby(who is helping him and the group too) is available.

[soniq]

Dividend payment made 32279ab5df9fd2b327500949fd0b5bcadda47d6f36cbf3283dbb11519f506436

Progress report:

-We have separated the wallets  and balanced the  amounts owing.  Will post the separated wallet balance sheet as soon as we review it again. Once you see it you will understand.

- Have balanced the ledger and will post publicly tomorrow, we want to review it again tomorrow with fresh eyes.

- regarding dutu comments that we started mining the same time as Addiction is not true. Addiction took physical delivery and was mining 4 to 5 days before our hosted Jupiters started mining. The Jupiters were mining almost 3 BTC a day at that point.  In fact I created a spreadsheet showing lost income from late delivery of Jupiters.  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=24 

- Will be making the next hosting payment on Feb 01

-We will start on issuing NMC immediately after we finish balancing all wallets and have been confirmed by group members

[Tiennou74]

Thanks.
2questions:
How come the GB never got more than 85btc of compensation (we lost over 300btc!)
Do we need a NMC address or will you convert to BTC?
Thanks

[soniq]

Thanks.
2questions:
How come the GB never got more than 85btc of compensation (we lost over 300btc!)

Good question, KNC decided they didnt have to and a legal opinion agreed.

Do we need a NMC address or will you convert to BTC?
Thanks

You can verify your NMC address here by signing with your GB payment address  http://bitcoinfun.ca/nmcsign/

[Tiennou74]

You can verify your NMC address here by signing with your GB payment address  http://bitcoinfun.ca/nmcsign/
[/quote]

I'm having an error with the site
SyntaxError: Unexpected token <

BTC address: 1KnNYh2MAkG4AhYmyXeAnLf9e2veHrXKiW
NMC address: NBMjaMGPgdZXSVATmq12XzxakCgwnwDNQj
NMC signed message: G57e6VZ1tEcgaMOPJmiHRUWRGRYWllnV0F8akEUO1s3nG3YB8Dm90DX8AWdQbYzLUNMiU0v3UXE

[dutu]

Hi Soniq,

Thank you for getting back to us and for the last dividend payment.
We are glad to see we are making progress and your efforts to catch up are appreciated.

We are looking forward to receiving the final calculations, including amount of bitcoin mined to date and details of costs incurred.

In the meantime I have updated my file with payments received until today:

http://sdrv.ms/L1imNB

to date it still shows 29.9% less payments as compared to addiction GB, which translates in a total of ~163 BTC difference for GB1 only. I am not worried, as I know the last payment was only partial and namecoins have not been paid-out/exchanged into BTC yet.

I do understand that we may not reach exactly 163 BTC to be paid-out for GB1 next week, as a slight difference (positive or negative) will appear due to:
* different mining start dates as you pointed out - I can help with exact delta calculation if needed, please let me know
* hosting cost may also give a slight difference (positive or negative)

Anyway, this should be cleared out once we get the final calculation showing btc mined and cost incurred to date.
Please post the details.

Thanks

[soniq]

Hi

Still working on some more details but here is new balance sheet to Jan 20/14

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=31

Will be adding NMC  and updated ledger soon

Here is link to NMC explorer and Bitminter address   http://bitinfocharts.com/namecoin/address/N6eYH9gXketBSdCzCjzg9B9aoAZtoGgBvD

current balance 1,593.75193385 NMC

and the NMC Eligius address http://bitinfocharts.com/namecoin/address/N1p98kiGrodAUhxqKZUCaumQKNxHAWtb1D

current balance  1,786.63575364 NMC

[BenTuras]

I have the first results of the bookkeeping check I have done the last week and a halve. It has been hard, Soniq has helped me now and then but there are still questions unanswered.

First a few questions for Larry:

Eligius address 1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c shows All time total payout: 651.61300674 BTC, spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=29 shows 791.57500405. Can you explain the difference of 140 BTC ? Is that the mistake you made and sent an email about ?

How can I check the total number of BTC mined on bitminter.com ?

Only part of the shareholders got a refund for the difference between share price and jupiter purchase price/30 (prorated column on KNC balance sheet, updated balance sheet tab: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=6). For example I can’t find the 2.43255667BTC(according to the KNC balance sheet) I am entitled to in my wallet and it’s also not mentioned on KNC GB Calc, ledger jan 20/14 tab on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28.

Probably transaction fee?
1. There is a 0.5btc difference between the claimed column total of prorated and the actual total.
2. Why is this sheet filled with only values and no formulas, which would make it easier to see what the value represent ?
3. There is also a 0.5btc difference on the total paid column.

Book check.
0. Intro
I did a check by using the available information I could find, being spreadsheets and the group buy thread on bitcointalk. I started with GB1, which gave me an advantage since I am participating in it, so I could relate certain payments with my own wallet. I haven’t checked GB2/3 yet and would like to suggest that a participant of GB2/3 does this so he can use his own wallet for reference.
This is the information I used:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdDVzUTNLcmRJbWFYWTRpUkNkWmoteWc#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=226319.0
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c
<my own bitcoin-qt information>

1. GB1, buying of the Jupiters
Overall this has been well recorded in a spreadsheet. My questions are:
1a. There is a difference between the actual purchase price and the total amount paid for shares between the various Jupiters. An attempt has been made to refund the difference, but this looks like an unfinished job. I urge Soniq to have a look at the „updated balance sheet” on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdHRmNnY1Qm9xTWM1aHhyU09sdVRsNFE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=6 and check the column „prorated balance” against the share price difference payments he has done according to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28
1b. I also urge all participants to do the same as I did and check their own information on the two sheets mentioned and compare it to their bitcoin-qt information.

2. Mining
This is where it becomes harder. The starting moment of the mining is unclear, Soniq claims he started about a week later than Tyrion and claims that this explains the huge difference between the performance of this GB compared to theirs. KnC has given 85BTC to compensate for the problems with the hosting, but this is not enough to close the gap. And to make it even worse, there seems to be a difference between the mined amount of BTC recorded in the books and the actual number mined on Eligius. I can not check the amount of BTC mined on Bitminter, since that is not viewable on the website. That’s why I urge Soniq to post dated screen shots of the mined BTC when he calculates the dividends. It could help if I get a .csv of the bitcoin-qt wallet, but Soniq already stated that he also used this wallet for personal stuff and a filtered .csv will still leave uncertainty. In the mean time he has split his personal wallet and the GB wallets.

3. Dividend payment
Even harder is it to understand the calculated dividends. All kind of amounts and calculations(without formulas to make it even harder to understand) can be seen on the sheets and it’s not always clear what the base is for the calculations.
The dividend payments as registered in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdDVzUTNLcmRJbWFYWTRpUkNkWmoteWc#gid=0 are hard to understand. There are a few payment periods, but some participants are not paid in all periods.
The individual participant payments, as registered in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=28 are a little bit easier to understand, but are missing descriptions and the order of the rows seems random and not chronological ?!
The sheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdDVzUTNLcmRJbWFYWTRpUkNkWmoteWc#gid=0 contains accumulated dividend payments. The amounts on this sheet are probably accumulations from another sheet, but it’s unclear to me which sheet that is.

4. Hosting payments
Penalty for late hosting payment. Why has this happened ? And who is responsible ? Was the payment late towards KnC, or just a few participants being late?
The hosting payment itself is also not 100% clear. This needs to be registered on a separate sheet, each payment with a date, amount and transaction reference. And the future obligations needs to be registered too with the date due. All this needs to be accompanied with information from KnC about the past and future obligations.

Conclusion.
The bookkeeping has been week and is hard to understand for me. Mixing the personal transactions and the GB transactions has been a huge mistake and makes it impossible for me to do a thorough book checking. Giving me access to the unedited .csv export of the wallet might help, but is still no guarantee. Future payments should be done in separate sheets and based on the suggested sheet I made a few weeks ago. If Soniq chooses this sheet, I will help him include the hosting fee payment and correction due to paying too much dividend. I advise against using external software and only publish accumulated information.

KISS (keep it simple stupid) applies here! Use the Excel sheet I made, we can all understand it.

[RHA]

Eligius address 1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c shows All time total payout: 651.61300674 BTC, spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=29 shows 791.57500405. Can you explain the difference of 140 BTC ? Is that the mistake you made and sent an email about ?

It's not "Eligius address", it's just an address set at Eligius to mine/send the BTC to it. Part of the BTC at this address could be mined elsewhere.
The Blockchain (https://blockchain.info/address/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c) shows us:

Total Received    796.76286655 BTC
Final Balance    124.60206558 BTC

[agibby5]

Eligius address 1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c shows All time total payout: 651.61300674 BTC, spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=29 shows 791.57500405. Can you explain the difference of 140 BTC ? Is that the mistake you made and sent an email about ?

It's not "Eligius address", it's just an address set at Eligius to mine/send the BTC to it. Part of the BTC at this address could be mined elsewhere.
The Blockchain (https://blockchain.info/address/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c) shows us:

Total Received    796.76286655 BTC
Final Balance    124.60206558 BTC

85 came from KNC and that leaves another 60 that wasn't mined at Eligius.

[BenTuras]

Eligius address 1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c shows All time total payout: 651.61300674 BTC, spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=29 shows 791.57500405. Can you explain the difference of 140 BTC ? Is that the mistake you made and sent an email about ?

It's not "Eligius address", it's just an address set at Eligius to mine/send the BTC to it. Part of the BTC at this address could be mined elsewhere.
The Blockchain (https://blockchain.info/address/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c) shows us:

Total Received    796.76286655 BTC
Final Balance    124.60206558 BTC

If that's the case, then it should be clear in the excel sheet and verifiable when doing a check of the books.

[BenTuras]

Eligius address 1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c shows All time total payout: 651.61300674 BTC, spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtH6ASvoAExHdF9IcFh3QmQ2dEt4Zk5qT3lRUDFDTVE&usp=drive_web&pli=1#gid=29 shows 791.57500405. Can you explain the difference of 140 BTC ? Is that the mistake you made and sent an email about ?

It's not "Eligius address", it's just an address set at Eligius to mine/send the BTC to it. Part of the BTC at this address could be mined elsewhere.
The Blockchain (https://blockchain.info/address/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c) shows us:

Total Received    796.76286655 BTC
Final Balance    124.60206558 BTC

85 came from KNC and that leaves another 60 that wasn't mined at Eligius.

How can I verify that ?
My point is, too many things are not verifiable and it should be easy to do so.

[equipoise]

Dividend payment made 32279ab5df9fd2b327500949fd0b5bcadda47d6f36cbf3283dbb11519f506436

Progress report:

...

I didn't receive any dividends from the 32279ab5df9fd2b327500949fd0b5bcadda47d6f36cbf3283dbb11519f506436 (2014-01-21) transaction. Does it mean I was overpaid from the previous dividends?

[dutu]

Hi Soniq,

Would you please provide amount of bitcoin mined at Gigapool and receiving address.

In your balance sheet you are referring to Eligius and Bitminter, there is no reference to Gigapool.

Please refer to your post from October 14.

Thanks

First dividend payment sent  today to GB1 direct share holders.

 Bitfunder members are waiting  for hosting loan to be paid in full and expect that to happen tomorrow or Wednesday

26 Jupiters mining at KNC datacenter,  23 on Eligius pool here http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1EN3EqqQfqq484WNATFAMA13VXpJuJNv5c

2 Jupiters on Gigapool

and 1 not verified working or not working?

Dividend payment can be seen here https://blockchain.info/tx/f5a4397cd8901c5d557c0fed71ccaa20141901f870a471b4332491df13cf7e60

More updates to come