Crypto winter is coming again …

[Cherylstar86]

A bad time to invest in Bitcoin
October 8th, 2017

Back in 2013 I urged people to invest in Bitcoin.

Yesterday someone asked my cleaning lady to invest in Bitcoin.

Now if someone had asked her to accept payment in Bitcoin, or send payment in Bitcoin, then this would be compelling evidence that one should invest in Bitcoin.

But when cleaning ladies are asked to invest in Bitcoin, not a good investment.

When Bitcoin began, everyone was a miner, and everyone was a peer, everyone stored the entire blockchain. Which was great, but did not scale. And now people are struggling with half assed ideas about how to get it to scale.  Bitcoin can no longer deliver on its original promises, has not figured out what new promises to make, and many of the new promises are unworkable, or are scams, or are likely to turn into scams.

Right, basing investment decisions on personal anecdotes, sounds very intelligent and professional. If you look at the current bull run that last for close to two years now, you'll notice that a lot of growth was happening in a very quick spikes, which means that it was caused by small groups of investors deciding to make big buys - if it was "cleaning ladies" who were behind this rally, the chart would be more smooth. And it's a lie that Bitcoin can't deliver on its promises, it has promised decentralized permissionless payment system and that's exactly what we have for 8 years already - Satoshi didn't say that transactions will be instant and free and that it will process million transactions per second.

It seems everything is not so clear to me but I'll try to figure things out. How sure are you that Bitcoin can't deliver on its promises? So far,it gives a fair share to everyone of us here and yes it is decentralized payment system. Eight years is very important for us. If only knew the founder behind this on going success of bitcoin,we can thank him/her. The money that we get this coming winter is maybe a surprised amount but let's just wait for the result to come.

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[pitham1]

It is very much possible that a crypto winter is coming. The signs are very much there. Massive hype, A five fold increase in price in a matter of months. Governments either welcoming Bitcoin or baying for its blood. But if a winter does come, it won't last for ever. And I will hold until the next crypto boom happens.

[Samarkand]

...
 Bitcoin can no longer deliver on its original promises, has not figured out what new promises to make, and many of the new promises are unworkable, or are scams, or are likely to turn into scams.
...

What if I told you that Bitcoin has gravitated towards a use case as a store of value?
Scaling solutions aren´t even really necessary for this purpose. ICO scams are more of a
Ethereum or NEO problem than a problem of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin´s scarcity makes it a great store of value that is easily portable (compared to precious
metals). The known emission schedule makes it far superior to traditional currencies that
can - and are - being devalued at will by the central banks.

I concede that use cases like micropayments are not working out as people imagined years ago,
but the store of value aspect has stood the test of time.

[Techmind]

Oh yeah crypto winter is coming. Sooner or later.
And you know what? I don't think it will last that long it won'tl be "so cold".
And after that? You wanna guess again? Right, summer will come again.
So what exactly is your point??

I think we are still at the bottom of the S curve. The Bitcoin will rise gradually or fastly in the near future.

[Hyperme.sh]

Oh yeah crypto winter is coming. Sooner or later.
And you know what? I don't think it will last that long it won'tl be "so cold".
And after that? You wanna guess again? Right, summer will come again.

Did you not read the OP and understand that centralized failure of the ecosystem such as in the case of Mt. Gox, caused a 2 year collapse of the crypto markets. The price fell from $1200 to $150. So the equivalent percentage drop if it happened today would be $5800 to $725 (note that is not a prediction, just a mathematical computation).

Although the following quote is not a prediction (rather just the thoughts of @CoinCube about extent of chaos possible although he thinks miners wouldn’t dare), per the following which was linked from the OP, the potential destruction to the public image of blockchains and cryptocurrency as unsafe by the public-at-large could be catastrophic and set back our foray into the mass markets by years:

Once again, it’s possible I’m Chicken Little. So every reader should decide for himself the threat level he/she perceives to be reality. I’m not trying to sway anyone to do anything. I’m just sharing my thoughts and discussing.

@CoinCube noted about this threat that if it came true, then users who inadvertently double-spent BTC could be sued by exchanges and others and funds clawed back making everybody in the lineage chain responsible for the double-spent funds. A huge mess! That is why he thinks miners will never do it. He thinks there would be outrage in the community. But the whales, most of which who presumably know about this risk, have I think prepared. It’s the n00bs who are likely to be harmed and they’re not economically relevant anyway, their UAHF/community “vote” is not superior in the context of an economic majority. So being that I view myself as a defender of the honest underdog, I feel obligated to share this information.


EDIT: I found the Trilema logs where they were discussing my thoughts and where he mentioned that “you can bury a segwit tx into legitimate spending which is deep enough to not be practically reorg-able”. Now I perhaps realize what he means is that if your lineage has descendant UTXO which fork out to UTXO which the miners own (which is worth more than), then they’re unlikely to revert (and double-spend) that lineage. Or simply because the miners do not want to wreck too much havoc because this would make their rollback too unpopular. So he also means that if you can mix your activity in with the spending activity of whales, the miners are unlikely to revert the transactions of whales as that creates resistance to their fork.

So what exactly is your point??

What I had already written:

Imagine if tomorrow occurs a crash like 2008. What do you think will happen to the price of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies?

Your share of the wealth of the world would increase, because you’d still have all your BTC and you could buy more at lower fiat prices.

However, you might possibly (not surely) lose your BTC if you accept the vast wisdom and research of @poorya87.

"Crypto winter is coming again ..."

Different times, the past has nothing to do with the future  

I’m documenting in this thread all of you stating: “it’s different this time and the widespread, centralized failure of Mt. Gox can never be repeated in any form”.

Just like I documented in March and April everyone stating that LTC’s move from $4 to $6 was nothing and it would drop back down again. Then it went to $85.

Just like how I recently documented in the “BCH bleeding death" thread and the thread "people think that Bitcoin Cash can disappear", how everyone thinks BCH is dying (and scorn it the same as they did for LTC), and let’s observe if it rises to $1000 or $1500.

Also this from James A. Donald, the first person who communicated with Satoshi on the mailing list where Bitcoin was announced:

A bad time to invest in Bitcoin
October 8th, 2017

Back in 2013 I urged people to invest in Bitcoin.

Yesterday someone asked my cleaning lady to invest in Bitcoin.

Now if someone had asked her to accept payment in Bitcoin, or send payment in Bitcoin, then this would be compelling evidence that one should invest in Bitcoin.

But when cleaning ladies are asked to invest in Bitcoin, not a good investment.

When Bitcoin began, everyone was a miner, and everyone was a peer, everyone stored the entire blockchain. Which was great, but did not scale. And now people are struggling with half assed ideas about how to get it to scale.  Bitcoin can no longer deliver on its original promises, has not figured out what new promises to make, and many of the new promises are unworkable, or are scams, or are likely to turn into scams.

Note I also advised others to invest in BTC back in 2013.

Right, basing investment decisions on personal anecdotes, sounds very intelligent and professional. If you look at the current bull run that last for close to two years now, you'll notice that a lot of growth was happening in a very quick spikes, which means that it was caused by small groups of investors deciding to make big buys - if it was "cleaning ladies" who were behind this rally, the chart would be more smooth. And it's a lie that Bitcoin can't deliver on its promises, it has promised decentralized permissionless payment system and that's exactly what we have for 8 years already - Satoshi didn't say that transactions will be instant and free and that it will process million transactions per second.

Given the majority is always wrong in the markets, is it never good to be contrarian? In 2013, both he and I were contrarians and concurred with buying BTC when it was $10 in Q1 2013. (Note I’m not necessarily contrarian now at $5000ish, but rather maybe later when my nose is bleeding profusely from the heights)

The spikes could be the Bitmain cartel miners buying to drive the price of BTC up and BCH down, so they can use the mined BTC to (buy BCH cheap and other things, so as to) double-spend on everyone when the long-range chain reorganization of the BTCSegWit chain occurs. They’ve apparently also been using their connections in the Communist Party of China to manipulate the price of crypto by declaring all exchanges closed and now the rumors they’re reopening them again. So there is the potential centralized failure akin to Mt. Gox all over again. And who was warning everyone over the past 2 - 3 years the Bitcoin mining was becoming dangerously centralized? (Hint: me)

My spin on the “cleaning lady” comment is how it is similar to the Mt. Gox run-up, in that Bitcoin was all over the MSM (mainstream media such as CNBC) and touted as the new Dot.com phenomenon. Now all over the news is how the Scalepolcalypse has been solved by the implementation of the New York agreement amongst major players in the industry. Yet I think Bitmain had always planned to kill the November prong of the NY agreement. And I’m (and other whales are) claiming SegWit may be a trojan horse that could possibly (not surely) lead to widespread loss of BTC.

We know that Mark Karpelès was a set-up by other elite forces in the industry. He wasn’t some loon acting alone to cause the massive crash. Similarly Satoshi was not some lone Japanese hacker working out of his garage. Similarly Wikileaks (which elected Trump as I predicted) is not something created by Julian Assange; just go learn about who harbors and funds him (Hint: the Rothschild family).

Decentralized payment system you will never have with proof-of-work. Research has modelled that is impossible:

In particular, I want you to understand that recent research has modeled
that Bitcoin can’t converge to consensus as the revenue from transaction
fees becomes more significant than the revenue from protocol dictated
block rewards (and I’m presuming you understand some of the rudimentary
technical details about how block chain mining works):

https://gist.github.com/shelby3/e0c36e24344efba2d1f0d650cd94f1c7

Some further discussion of that:

http://archive.is/8TEFu#selection-20289.0-20289.23
(also
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2251762.msg22889412#msg22889412)

Somebody may be fucking the drugged sheep in the ass.

I would really feel crummy for noble Bitcoin supporters (who form the backbone of our diversified ecosystem, but I would enjoy seeing intransigent fools) to lose any BTC because they were not given access to this threat data, no matter how large or small the actual threat may be.

I am not intending to raise FUD. How else can I get the attention of readers and get the information to them? Readers have short attention spans and there is so much information competing for their attention. And typically the issues I write about require reading walls of text that explain the details. Although I do try to summarize, the summaries tend to cause readers to miss some facets which then cause them to not fully appreciate the issues.

It is not like I just suddenly, intransigently, and impetuously dropped a bomb. I wrote two Steemit blogs about this issue in August. Then I set it aside and allowed more time to collect more information, reflect, and collect more discussion with others. Then after starting one thread on it this week on BCT, to see if anyone could blow in any large holes in it, it was only after all that then I made a thread like this.

[Oceat]

Why do you call it Crypto winter? When did this idea came from? I'm assuming that you are referring to the price or could it be the dip, the upcoming forks. Well, this is not really new to me since I've seen some greater dips back then. This is just a normal reaction when there is a fork but the price of bitcoin that keep on rising extremely every year, that is not normal.

[Hyperme.sh]

Why do you call it Crypto winter? When did this idea came from?

I’ve seen others use that term when they refer to the 2013/14 Mt. Gox induced collapse in the BTC price from $1200ish to $150ish, and the subsequent 2 year languishing of the price.

During that period, the altcoins just about died. Many went to ~$0. The venture capital investment though continued to grow. Ethereum did an $18 million ICO in 2014, which was a shockingly huge fundraising to all of us at the time.

The public-at-large became very afraid of Bitcoin, similar to their aversion to the USA stock market since the 2008/9 subprime real-estate induced crash of the stock markets. Now it appears the public is starting to trust crypto again a little and starting to come back in per the “cleaning lady” comment and for example the Steemit altcoin blogging project. EOS recently raised $200 million in 5 minutes at the start of their ICO (which appears to be an illegal security issuance).

[Denker]

Oh yeah crypto winter is coming. Sooner or later.
And you know what? I don't think it will last that long it won'tl be "so cold".
And after that? You wanna guess again? Right, summer will come again.

Did you not read the OP and understand that centralized failure of the ecosystem such as in the case of Mt. Gox, caused a 2 year collapse of the crypto markets. The price fell from $1200 to $150. So the equivalent percentage drop if it happened today would be $5800 to $725 (note that is not a prediction, just a mathematical computation).
 -snip-

I've read what you wrote.
And I say it's mostly bullshit!
Back in the days Mt.Gox was THE exchange where the majority of trading has happened!
Since then so many things have changed.Much more regulation, progress, adoption and development took place.The number of exchanges alone is staggering compared to 2014! Japan, South Korea are in full throttle in terms of crypto adoption and acceptance.
 
Markets go up and go down.And after that? Right the continue moving up again!
And I highly doubt we will see another 80% crash like back in the days.
Getting such cheap coins is the dream of everybody who knows about the potential of Bitcoin!

Wall Street is coming as well. The big money wants to get in.And I mean the REAL BIG MONEY!
Lets spike up to 10-20k right now and correct down over a year max before we move up again. That's my worst case scenario!
Bitcoin will spike in crazy highs and come down and form a higher bottom than before.

Furthermore disrupting from the inside isn't working as Bcash has shown.And B2x is DOA.Right now it is highly questionable if the fork will even happen.Supporters of of NYA are dropping like flies! Forks like Bgold are welcomed by many users as they see it as crypto dividend. HODLERS get rewarded!

If you fear a short term rollercoaster in terms of the price, then I recommend to leave this place.
Your fear mongering is embarrassing and pretty obvious.

HODLERS who are in for the long run can ignore these up and downs.They just don't give a damn! In a few years they will be set for life anyway!
So again what is your point??

[Hyperme.sh]

I've read what you wrote.
And I say it's mostly bullshit!
Back in the days Mt.Gox was THE exchange where the majority of trading has happened!
Since then so many things have changed.Much more regulation, progress, adoption and development took place.The number of exchanges alone is staggering compared to 2014! Japan, South Korea are in full throttle in terms of crypto adoption and acceptance.

[…}

Wall Street is coming as well. The big money wants to get in.And I mean the REAL BIG MONEY!

[…]

I highly doubt we will see another 80% crash like back in the days.

That’s what everyone was saying and doing at the height of the Dot.com right before the collapse also. Warren Buffet was the major lone contrarian and he ended up being correct. Where is Pets.com today?

But it’s different this time right  

Just like the Dot.com situation, the entire crypto sector is built on illegal ICO scams, MLM scams, and speculation on crypto scams. That is 95% of Bitcoin’s use case is backed by FOMO (fear-of-missing-out) scams:

We're all here hoping to find the coin that will make us a millionaire!

I thing i will find my millionaire coin someday Just keep up on date.

Including the scam of “decentralized mining” which is utter nonsense given that there are only two 14nm custom ASIC fabs in the world, and they are both controlled by the powers that be (aka the banksters who run this world and who also control Bitmain). And please don’t give me that unresearched n00b nonsense about ASIC resistance and “we’ll just change the proof-of-work algorithm”, because I’ve done the research.

All you’re saying is that you have herd sheep mentality just like the other billionaires who will get raped by the Rothschild (the Zionists) just like in the 2008/9 collapse, the Dot.com collapse, the S&L collapse before that, the 1920s Great Depression collapse before that. Etc..

Sheep Logic - This Is The Age Of The High-Functioning Sociopath

The determination to pursue any behavior that meets Hallmark #1 and #2 to absurd ends, even unto death. My worst sheep suicide story? The first year we kept sheep, we thought it would make sense to set up a hay net in their pen, which keeps the hay off the ground and lets the sheep feed themselves by pulling hay through the very loose loops of the net. Turned out, though, that the loops were so loose that a determined sheep could put her entire head inside the net, and if one sheep could do that, then two sheep could do that. And given how the hay net was hung and how these sheep were sensing each other, they started to move clockwise in unison, each trying to get an advantage over the other, still with their heads stuck in the net. At which point the net starts to tighten. And tighten. And tighten. My daughter found them the next morning, having strangled each other to death, unable to stop gorging themselves or seeking an advantage from the behavior of others. The other sheep were crowded around, stepping around the dead bodies, pulling hay for themselves out of the net. That was a bad day.

In both markets and in politics, our human intelligences are being trained to be sheep intelligences. That doesn’t make us sheep in the modern vernacular.

We are not becoming docile, stupid, and blindly obedient. On the contrary, we are becoming sheep as the Old Stories understood sheep … intensely selfish, intensely intelligent (but only in an other-regarding way) and intensely dogmatic, willing to pursue a myopic behavior even unto death.

They own you. You have no rights.

All this democracy BS about SegWit has won because everybody gets a community vote is complete nonsense. Cryptocurrency is not democracy. The economic reality is the whales decide and they use deception and take their time in harvesting as many sheep into the corral as possible before they pounce.

Bitmain cleverly pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes by feigning agreement to the NYA, but I presume it was always planning to let 2X fail so that the big blockers head into BCH (“Bcash”) and then that will give them the leverage against SegWit to at some point begin the mining attack to restore BTC back to purely a Satoshi protocol while stealing a lot of BTC from intransigent fools. The banksters have always been about profit and deception. And the intransigent sheep walk into the traps over and over and over again. Lol.

I already provided the link (and the link to the clarifying discussion) in my prior post to the research which shows that decentralized proof-of-work is a lie and it can not remain decentralized, because without an oligarchy in control then as revenue from transaction fees rises to greater than the revenue from the protocol block reward, then the economic incentives for the choosing one of competing orphaned blocks to arrive at a consensus are no longer aligned. The research models that without an oligarchy in control, then in the future every proof-of-work blockchain (not just Bitcoin, but also all altcoins based on proof-of-work) no longer converges and instead would diverge into a proliferation of every increasing number of forks!

I do research. I also study history. You pontificate.

If you fear a short term rollercoaster in terms of the price, then I recommend to leave this place.
Your fear mongering is embarrassing and pretty obvious.

HODLERS who are in for the long run can ignore these up and downs.They just don't give a damn! In a few years they will be set for life anyway!
So again what is your point??

Did I not write that I’m also a HODLER! How many damn times do I have to repeat this until you actually comprehend my point? Can you read the English language?

So what exactly is your point??

What I had already written:

Imagine if tomorrow occurs a crash like 2008. What do you think will happen to the price of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies?

Your share of the wealth of the world would increase, because you’d still have all your BTC and you could buy more at lower fiat prices.

However, you might possibly (not surely) lose your BTC if you accept the vast wisdom and research of @poorya87.

[…]

I would really feel crummy for noble Bitcoin supporters (who form the backbone of our diversified ecosystem, but I would enjoy seeing intransigent fools) to lose any BTC because they were not given access to this threat data, no matter how large or small the actual threat may be.

Getting such cheap coins is the dream of everybody who knows about the potential of Bitcoin!

Let’s see what you will say after all your recently acquired BTC is stolen by the blockchain. How will your cute community spirit fork off when the whales are getting rich on your unintended BTC donations? (at least you can still jack off while I do research)

How high will your confidence be then?

Might you end up being cross-eyed and bit confused about your former idealism, hubris, and overconfidence?



Reality is not your little sheep fantasy. The world is run by very powerful whales. (actually due to the inviolable Second Law of Thermodynamics nature is an ever increasing chaos aka entropy and inviolable natural cycles, so the elite must leverage the avarice/greed and herd mentality of human sheep)

And they hire the geniuses who scheme out how to deceive you with your own greed and desire of surety (both of which are condemned in the Bible).

And the hypothesis is they will restore Satoshi’s protocol (actually they never stopped using it). The theory is they’re collecting all of you in a corral (a double-spendable state on the illegal fork blockchain) in order that a meritocracy can be enforced. Those who do not understand Bitcoin is immutable, will learn the hard way.

They presumably funded and created Blockstream and found some gullible Core engineers to create a Rube Goldberg machine for them to fool the sheep into donating their BTC to “pay to anyone”. Lol, I admire the work of these Zionist banksters. So hilarious.

I await your “rebuttal”.

[fabiorem]

Hypermeme thinks we are still in MtGox times. By that time there was nothing to buy with bitcoin. Now its different, now we can buy houses, cars, yatches, all with bitcoin. In Dubai there are apartments for sale with bitcoins, I guess that they are even putting the addresses in the housing contracts. Now we have research on blockchain technology, both for corporations and governments, and we have teams working to find a solution to the credit card problem. We have LN coming, we have satelites, we have mass adoption in Japan.

So, there will be no crypto winter, despite what tinfoil-hat conspirationists might want.

[Hyperme.sh]

There's a tremendous increase in demand this time around […]

Past will never turn once again because […]

Hypermeme thinks we are still in MtGox times. By that time there was nothing to buy with bitcoin. Now its different, now we can buy houses, cars, yatches, all with bitcoin. In Dubai there are apartments for sale with bitcoins, I guess that they are even putting the addresses in the housing contracts. Now we have research on blockchain technology, both for corporations and governments, and we have teams working to find a solution to the credit card problem. We have LN coming, we have satelites, we have mass adoption in Japan.

So, there will be no crypto winter, despite what tinfoil-hat conspirationists might want.

Oh just like in the Dot.com bubble we could buy stuff at Pets.com. 95% of all the economic activity in crypto is scams (selling bridges that go no where) and speculating on scams. Period. Do the research.

Yeah everybody was talking in the Dot.com bubble about how the world had been instantly changed, but the reality was it was a bubble with very little real adoption, which is exactly the same case in crypto right now. Our adoption is 95% scams and speculation on scams.

Re buying BTC now, just this morning a (female, about 52) cousin just asked me to help her get into it.

Perhaps we have now reached that "Shoeshine Boy" point, perhaps a short term Sell at least for now?

I already provided the information in my prior post about how proof-of-work is insolubly flawed and can not be fixed.

LN destroys the security of proof-of-work. This was covered in prior discussions I linked to.

All this so called research into use of blockchains is mostly nonsense because no one has figured out how to scale a blockchain such that the control is decentralized. No one! (except me) Every instance you can mention, I can explain why it is and must be centralized controlled.

All these hyped projects are mostly all nonsense as well. You n00bs will believe any technobabble BS you gaze at wide-eyed.

You guys are putting the cart before the horse, just as the Dot.com bubble did. Yes eventually people figured out how to get billions to adopt the Internet. But it took more time. And the same will be the case for decentralized ledgers. We will have a (perhaps -80%) correction to weed out all the scams and overconfidence and then projects like mine will go on to be the KILLER APP.

Double bottom at 5,6 k.
There is strong support and volume.
Selling now would be very questionable.
Wait for november...

I agree. Looks like $8000+ may be the top. It’s a phase transition, so can’t terminate until my nose is bleeding profusely. Probably correct from $8000 back down to $5000s, then the altcoins will moon. Then later in 2018 perhaps comes the collapse into a crypto winter.

[maku]

I pondered about whole crypto reality and unfortunately, I need to agree with Jamie Dimon when he said that Bitcoin might be shut down by the governments.
Bitcoin might be something insignificant for now, but it is still growing and very soon when it will reach a certain level we will see government intervention in the bitcoin industry.
Governments like to control money, like to know where and who is sending it. It is not a secret. There is a really high chance that we see a lot more government action against bitcoin.
Most likely some draconian regulation will be put in place, maybe something even more drastic like action including changes to the core BTC protocol.

[Hyperme.sh]

unfortunately, I need to agree with Jamie Dimon when he said that Bitcoin might be shut down by the governments.

They can’t shut down private keys. And have many reasons not to do so!

They can go after the ICO scams though to some extent.

Presumably Dimon has been told by his bankster buddies that the BItcoin bubble will be popped soon. He apparently does not realize how they are planning to pop it (the elite employ compartmentalisation to prevent their underlings from knowing all their plans and schemes). I am giving you a plausible theory.

They might increase regulation of the exchanges but they can’t stop decentralized ledgers (however there are no sustainably decentralized ledgers yet).

The basic blockchain idea is that if the government seizes your server, you are not fucked.

Rather, the government has to seize all or most of the servers, which if they are distributed between several jurisdictions, likely to be difficult. So, if the US government seizes all the US servers, most people will scarcely notice. They will just log into a host in some other jurisdiction.

Governments notoriously find it extremely difficult to cooperate or coordinate with other governments.

And the perspective from someone in a country where people had to in recent past disobey the government to survive, e.g. perhaps in a former USSR nation:

No government in this world can stop bitcoin technically as this would require to turn off the internet, what isn't possible as every decent developed country highly rely on it.

Yes, they can declare it as illegal but this will not stop it as people aren't able to understand why it should be illegal? To declare it as illegal could have a negative impact on the government's credibility and this isn't good if you want to rob your citizens.

[McKane]

"Crypto winter is coming again ..."

Different times, the past has nothing to do with the future 

Past will never turn once again because at the moment nothing can stop bitcoin because bitcoin is on the way to peak where it will never come down.  Just wondering if people are afraid of winters then there are many countries who are having only summer they should need to visit arab states. Bitcoin will become a future currency around the world because it has proved to be the best currency around the world and people are accepting that.

[xypos]

Agreed. Long term bicoin will skyrocket still but i'm not so sure about the next year or so when nobody talks about cryptos altogether. Since we're so high up right now it's dead easy for us to drop to $3000 in a flash crash.

I'm not saying that it'll happen any time soon, in fact i don't think that this bubble will end this year.

But when it does happen, it'll take a year or two for us to recover.

[XbladeX]

***
Presumably Dimon has been told by his bankster buddies that the BItcoin bubble will be popped soon. He apparently does not realize how they are planning to pop it (the elite employ compartmentalisation to prevent their underlings from knowing all their plans and schemes). I am giving you a plausible theory.
***

Yea big players are trying to put some play sure. All people with money are trying to manipulate in their favor.
But there is many vectors where Bitcoin/ICO can run away. You cannot ban all at once.
(oh you can kill with nukes all people on the world)
Because countries have different goals while one like US is banning / restricting krypto others will see opportunity to open border to it and took money into county. This is doing Switzerland most startups is registered there. Stupid NON for US people restriction can not be enforced... people buy those ICOs in massive even if is restricted in US. US is no longer no 1 place for krypto. US,China was hunting crypto and all it ended with moving capital to another safe heaven. What goes UP will go down same price of BTC.

[OriginalBankster]

The claim that SegWit is a donation to miners and can be stolen is not justified?

this can't be true. can someone explain?

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

There's a tremendous increase in demand this time around, don't see why winter should be coming. There might be some brief corrections, but overall this seems to be the point in time where disruptive technologies explode until the market becomes saturated. The overall crypto market should be climbing around 10 to 100 times of its current value. Perhaps even higher if we consider the fact that "undeveloped" countries are starting to boom as well.

[digaran]

Did you know in games of thrones brothers jump their sisters? winter came and everything worked out well for them, they all jumped something, pussies, dragons. we should invest now or sell? if you want to sell then please buy my activity tokens, I promise to buy them back later with your own money. wishful lol. this is a winter for scam ICOs and fake cryptos. anything starting with E is doomed.

[Hyperme.sh]

The claim that SegWit is a donation to miners and can be stolen is not justified?

this can't be true. can someone explain?

The arguments for and against the theory:

Discussion continued.