Martin Armstrong Discussion

[Hyperme.sh]

After reading this, I think you will conclude my health is indeed improving. The brain fog is lifting. I am almost back to being mentally the @Anonymint of 2013 yore that originally captured some of your interest (when you were still a borderline atheist if I am not mistaken?).

Btw, it seems eating the seeds of the Papaya fruit has done something to drastically improve the recovery of my liver and gut health post the anti-TB regimen. Makes me dizzy and flying in cloud after digesting them, but that fades after a couple of hours. The rest of the time the benefits are outstanding thus far.

I stated that I would not want to live in a society that did not punish such actions and doubted whether one could find a society that would tolerate them.

I distinguished moralistic (absolute truth) ideological ends and stated these aren’t ever valid thus never justify means. For the remaining ends, I stated these are not ends because they have no total ordering. Thus there are no ends. Instead we live in societies and follow the rules of our chosen society.

You argued that there was "Nothing morally wrong with stealing" but that you would prefer to live in a society where it was not allowed and legal.

Because I argued morals (as so defined to be absolute truths) do not exist, because there are no observable absolute truths. If morals do exist, only an omniscient God knows what they are. Not any human interpretations. Any such omniscient God can only communicate directly with the believer about this, not through middlemen. Even Jesus spoke about this and praying in your closet directly to God for the synagogues are for those who want to be adulated as believers.

This leads to the logical conclusion that we can and should steal as long as we can get away with it and not get caught get either via clever misdirection or finding loopholes in the law.

You incorrectly applied logic. If A is true and B is not A, does not make B false.

This also leads to the logical necessity of an all powerful and ever growing state to increasingly monitor and observe its citizens ensuring compliance with an ever growing law.

And thus this does not follow. I said live in society, not attempt to destroy a society. How can someone rationally live in a society that they are trying to destroy.

You’re ostensibly presuming that humans have to be fearful of an unobservable absolute truth in order to become rational, which to me is incredulously illogical and irrational on the face of it. Why would anyone be rational if they’re being irrational by believing in implausibility of absolute truth (as already elaborated in my prior posts in this discussion with you).

I clearly stated that anyone is free to have their own beliefs as long as their beliefs do not impinge on me.

You also stated that there is nothing morally wrong with theft and presumably murder as well. At best these are simply local social norms under your system with no inherent meaning or significance.

Indeed some tribes might still mutilate female clitoris and sacrifice each other at the altar and it is none of our fscking business!

Feel free to offer them your ideas, but if you think you have the absolute truth and they are wrong, then in my philosophy you’re evil because you’ve tried to elevate yourself to be an omniscient God and the judge of humans. (Because again we can’t observe universal/absolute truths in order to verify them)

That does not mean you should not try to offer ideas to them about how certain beliefs are self-destructive. As long as you don’t preach it as an absolute truth that they are commanded to obey. The use of fear doesn’t employ the rational prefrontal cortex. Quoting from my 2013 blog post:

The fear emotion is inherited from the primitive, post-paleozoic, hunter-gatherer time period when mortal danger was omnipresent. Fear stimulates a fight-or-flight adrenaline spike in response to extreme stress. Adrenaline rushes are thrilling and addictive, especially when the threat is low-grade, not thoroughly exhausting, and thus repeatable because it only exists in the imagination. Adrenaline (plus cortisol) shuts down rational thought in the pre-frontal cortex. Production of the steriod cortisol spikes to redistribute more energy to the muscles and nerves, depleting energy from the immune system, digestion, and toxic waste processing necessary to maintain health.

It is quite simple. I think ideologues are evil. And you’ve done more to convince me of that than anyone else I’ve ever known.

I will take that as a compliment. If it makes you feel better the feeling is not mutual. I do think your worldview facilitates evil but I do not think you are evil.

I agree our struggle to communicate could be seen as a necessary learning process, thus complementary (not complimentary).

Well I hope so, but I do wonder if you could slide into being a zealot. But I must admit, having never interacted with you verbally, perhaps I’m reading more between the lines than is really there. I’m also antagonized by those who judge with biases, absolute truths, and incoherent comprehension, but not in a way that I need to prove something to every single case (at least not any more). Just want to get my philosophy solidified and communicated well.

You got that precisely transposed. My worldview is not evil, but I might be evil because I’m only human.

Suffice to say I strongly disagree with your views and find them to be internally incoherent.

That said I wish you well on your spiritual journey.

Passing false witness is condemned in the Bible. Please be more circumspect.

It is not false but true to the best of my understanding and wisdom.

You passed judgement before confirming whether your demonizing interpretations were coherent and correct. You could have instead stated your interpretations and asked for clarifications before stating your demonizing conclusions.

Your careless haste could possibly be construed to exemplify your underlying motive to make demonizing conclusions.

The above are factual and non-slanderous (not even disrespectful) conclusions, not subject to any interpretation. The “could possibly be construed” is not an absolute statement, thus the statement is factual.

You’re engaging a 30+ year programmer in the area of logic — which is thus my speciality. God help you, lol.  

In the past I have seen you refer to Matthew 7:1 as a prohibition against judgement.

This is one of the most commonly misunderstood verses of the Bible. I believe you would benefit from reading this commentary on the true meaning of this verse.

http://thediscerningsheep.blogspot.com/2014/12/matthew-71-most-misunderstood-bible.html?m=1

It is a heresy to tell people they need an authority to tell the readers how to interpret what Jesus meant. Jesus communicates directly to the reader.

Once again this is yet another example of trying to organize and force people to a monolithic orthodoxy (belief system). The Bible is supposed to mean different things to different readers.

It is okay to discuss ideas, but not from an authoritative/canonical stance, because no human’s interpretation can be absolute truth.

I think you have not yet grasped that I am trying to avoid the megadeath that comes from the slippery slope of zealots who think they have some absolutely justified ends that justifies the means. You probably think you will never personally become a Zionist, Crusader, or other ideologues who burned humans at on the stake (as the Zionist Mossad did at 9/11), but how could you be sure when you self-profess that you promulgate the concept of absolute truth?

Btw, I was indeed asking you to not pass judgement, because you are not the judge, and only make statements of material fact. That is what Matthew 7 means. Cast the plank of wood out of our own eyes before looking for the speck of dust in someone else’s. Who is above sin? The point is to try to work towards harmonious and fair and accurate mutual understanding. And this is the dilemma of claiming absolute truth. It turns you a human into a judge of other humans. Which is evil and the Bible condemns it in numerous verses. Even in 1 Samuel 8 and in the 10 Commandments, the Lord is demanding that we form our relationship directly with him and no middlemen. No charlatans who think they possess the truth. This is the necessary humbleness I was referring to. Which must admit we can not have the absolute truth.

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[OROBTC]

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The above is a necessary conversation.

I look for opinions & other writings on what Jesus meant, but in the end, yes, it comes down to each of us seeking Him in our closet.  No intermediaries.  Those who *may* have better or more insight are worth reading (thanks CoinCube), but the key is honest hard internal work reaching out to our Creator.

Matthew 5 - 7 is probably the core of Christian thought.  It is worth extensive reading, thought and meditation.

[CoinCube]

Hyperme.sh

Thank you for your response.

As I said above I believe your world view suffers from ex falso quodlibet.

It allows you to redefine almost any any evil act any crime as acceptable and simply part of the diversity of choices or survival of the fittest in action.

The worst kind of human evil is evil that deploys sin and crime to strengthen itself at the expense of the innocent and weak. As far as I can tell your philosophy withholds any judgement on such evil and perhaps condones it if successful.

I believe your philosophy to be terribly flawed and cannot personally reconcile it with the biblical principles you also claim to follow. However, I am not an authority on these matters so I would refer you to someone who is or better yet a period of deep religious reflection.

I have said everything I wish to say on this topic. I will leave you with this excerpt from The Way of God by Moshe Chaim Luzzatto who wrote on this topic around 1734.

The true optimum state of the world primarily involves man's spiritual state. It exists when man grasps the path of wisdom and is engaged in devotion to his Creator. In such a world, truth is obvious and unambiguous. The wicked are prosecuted, and deception no longer exists. Everything in such a world involves some aspect of devotion to God, and all good qualities are maintained and strengthened, while all evil ones are repelled and rejected.

As a result of this, security and tranquility prevail, and there is no longer any pain, suffering or injury. God openly projects His Glory on such a world, and He rejoices in His handiwork. In a similar manner, His handiwork is happy and rejoices before Him.

The opposite of this optimum world exists when man becomes overwhelmed by the pursuit of physical desires, rejecting wisdom and furthering himself from it. In such a world, little if any attention is given to true devotion. Truth is ignored, wickedness is reinforced and prevails, and deception and error increase. It is a world of false values, where good qualities are eclipsed and evil ones prevail. As a result of this, tranquility ceases to exist, and there is no security, while there is much suffering and injury. God hides His Glory from the world, and it goes on as if left to chance, abandoned to the laws of nature. God neither rejoices in His handiwork, nor does mankind rejoice in Him. Man neither realizes nor recognizes even what it means for creation to rejoice before its Creator. In such a world, the wicked become strong, and the good are deprived of all status.

[Hyperme.sh]

I have said everything I wish to say on this topic.

Ít’s okay with me if you continue.

I hope you note with the massacres increasing in frequency in the USA and North Korea ready to test a nuclear missile which can reach the continental USA, that the issues I raise are becoming ever more relevant.

The massacres are not due to inadequate awareness of absolute truths and morals. Rather it is ideological subversion and power vacuums which are at the root cause.

As I said above I believe your world view suffers from ex falso quodlibet.

It allows you to redefine almost any any evil act any crime as acceptable and simply part of the diversity of choices or survival of the fittest in action.

Incorrect logic (or comprehension) again.

I said that the only basis we can observe for predictive truth is relative (often discordant or mostly orthogonal) partial orders. Thus the determination of what is criminal is relative to the society you can form with others. Whomever is able to successfully operate a society that allows murdering each other at whim, then please by all means demonstrate its sustainability if some so desire.

You can’t just go do any evil you want, if others aren’t willing to join. You’ll be destroyed. Natural limitations and self-destruction will limit the evil that can survive, biblically even the AntiChrist destroys itself.

The point is that nature doesn’t have our arbitrary biases about our belief of what is true. For nature all that is true is what actually survives.

I am confident you will discover that societies not founded on more-or-less Christian principles tend to be quite dysfunctional and self-destructive.

But I also think you will discover in your analysis of history that societies founded on humble Christians who don’t go trying to evangelize everyone and mind their own business praying in their small white rural churches or in their homes, are much more industrious and resilient than those societies which consume themselves with Crusades and Zionism and other forms of ideological conquest and subversion.

The worst kind of human evil is evil that deploys sin and crime to strengthen itself at the expense of the innocent and weak. As far as I can tell your philosophy withholds any judgement on such evil and perhaps condones it if is successful.

I believe your philosophy to be terribly flawed and cannot personally reconcile it with the biblical principles you also claim to follow.

You just can’t fathom allowing people to having the freedom to experiment with forming their own societies. Afaics, your ilk (cohorts) are determined to ram your absolute truths down everyone’s throat (presumably relying on the collective State as the proxy to do the thieving and war on your behalf), because apparently you’re so fearful that if you don’t then some person some where might be trapped in a society that is abusive. So go to war and take all their virgins for yourself. But do understand it’s war. Stop pretending you’re the good guy who is above sin. Rather try to understand that this world is imperfect and even to battle sin you must sin. The lust for universal truth is an insecurity and a refusal to acknowledge the teaching of Jesus.

However, I am not an authority on these matters so I would refer you to someone who is or better yet a period of deep religious reflection.

It doesn’t matter even if you have a million priests agree with you. My relationship with my creator and my beliefs is not the property of third parties.

My study of the Bible indicates to me that we are only to leave the judging to the omniscient one, other than the Romans chapter which is explaining that we are subject to laws when we choose to live in a society.

But remember what Jesus said, to come walk from town to town with nothing. And he railed against the orthodoxy and said he came bearing a sword. Jesus was all about the substance of love, understanding, flexibility, and not the horrors of orthodoxy and ideological war.

Jesus ate with the sinners.

If sin is so repulsive to you, then how are you able to look in the mirror?

Sin is part of our existence here on earth. Jesus lead by example teaching us not to be repulsed but to prioritize understanding.

You’re practically forcing me to preach, but I did not want to.

I just did not want to be judged by you in your belief system (yet that forces me to judge you in my belief system, sigh … sin is unavoidable).


P.S. I will say it again, what I’m trying to avoid is the slippery slope of humans falling into the trap of thinking they’re capable of enforcing absolute truths on each other. This is a power vacuum that enables evil in the guise of a desire to reduce evil. We’re simply incapable of arriving at any form of perfected total order and it’s actually necessary for we wouldn’t exist if we could (we’d already be equivalent to the omniscient one where spacetime is not quantized and nothing is uncertain, thus quite boring if you ask me). In return for this predicament, we receive an entertaining smorgasbord of uncertainty called life. Perhaps I should have entitled my philosophy, Avoiding Boredom in Heaven. Seriously though, we’re incapable of comprehending what might be the benefits of such an existence where uncertainty is impossible because omniscience and perfect have no exceptions.

I think what separates me from a Nihilist is do really in my heart want to believe humans can be adorable and we can have love and happiness all over. My logic however doesn’t let me too far with that emotion as perhaps it does for others. I try to enjoy my adulation for humanity in the moment, and set the big picture stuff aside. Blissful ignorance.

The following isn’t driven by morals but by the innate human spirit and the love of community:

“He told me, ‘Get down, get down, get down!’” Laurie Beaton told The Associated Press ahead of the memorial service.

He put his body on top of hers for protection, she said.

“He told me, ‘I love you, Laurie,’ and his arms were around me and his body just went heavy on me,” she said.

Jeff Sallee, a next-door neighbor to the Beatons, said Jack was the kind of person who put others first. If you tried to thank him for his kindness, Sallee said, he would cut you off and say: “Well, that’s just what you do. Doesn’t everyone?”

Don’t you remember our discussion some years ago about the little white church on the hill. I think you still do not understand the distinction I’m trying to make. Those spend their time trying to focus on making the world perfect create ideological power vacuums for evil bastards to leverage. Those who focus inwards on their communities and love ones do not inflict their ideology on others.


EDIT: What is really odd is I wrote about Mossad and 9/11 on the same day of the Las Vegas massacre but presciently. I accidentally wrote the 666th reply on the EOS massive scam thread recently.

The Zionists have their false flag fingerprints on the Las Vegas massacre. They’re trying to force Trump deeper into war. Also an attempt to foist more control in USA. Maybe the conspiracy chatter is deception, but it does make one think:

[CoinCube]

I have said everything I wish to say on this topic.

Ít’s okay with me if you continue.
...
I think what separates me from a Nihilist is do really in my heart want to believe humans can be adorable and we can have love and happiness all over. My logic however doesn’t let me too far with that emotion as perhaps it does for others. I try to enjoy my adulation for humanity in the moment, and set the big picture stuff aside. Blissful ignorance.
...
Don’t you remember our discussion some years ago about the little white church on the hill. I think you still do not understand the distinction I’m trying to make. Those spend their time trying to focus on making the world perfect create ideological power vacuums for evil bastards to leverage. Those who focus inwards on their communities and love ones do not inflict their ideology on others.

I agree with your comments about the little white church on the hill. Rather then trying to make the world perfect and striving externally I believe we should be striving internally and trying to make ourselves perfect a task we can only work towards not achieve.

It seems to me that there is an inherent conflict in you between the center of who you are and the logical worldview you have embraced thus your comments of blissful ignorance above. One potential resolution to this conflict is to find a way to rebuild the logic in such a way that it no longer conflicts with the essence of self but whether this is possible or not is something only you can determine.

Thank you for the invitation to continue but I have contributed what I can to this conversation. Here are four very short essays from Bruce Charlton on this topic that I think you would enjoy reading. I have found his writing to be insightful and he is someone who I believe has attained a higher degree of wisdom in these matters then myself.

Being a Good Person is not enough - not here and not now...
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/08/being-good-person-is-not-enough-not.html?m=1

How many Christians are atheists? A test...
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/08/how-many-christians-are-atheists-test.html?m=1

Taking modern nihilism seriously
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/09/taking-modern-nihilism-seriously.html?m=1

The Method of Jesus - So absolutely right; but why so indirect?
http://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/2017/08/the-method-of-jesus-so-absolutely-right.html?m=1


 

[Hyperme.sh]

I agree with your comments about the little white church on the hill. Rather then trying to make the world perfect and striving externally I believe we should be striving internally and trying to make ourselves perfect a task we can only work towards not achieve.

You claim so, but then why are you still still sending redundant Bruce Charlton crap which reads like a laundry list of your judgements of why I have/had an chronic illness (the blog you linked about atheism), etc.?

I do not like this dogmatic chap Bruce Charlton.

He goes on and on as if he so sure of himself … passing judgements on others … It’s as if you did not read what I wrote about the Bible says only God shall pass these judgements. Romans says basically societies should be just, not judges of universal ideological truth.

In 1 Samuel 8, the Lord says:

The Lord answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”

Then Samuel said to the Israelites, “Everyone go back to your own town.”

Does Charlton really think that anyone he criticizes is really going to listen to him    

He is not presenting any information which I did not already know.

Do you really think his Nihilism blog has any applicability to me. I am not basing my principles on satisfying my feelings. I explained my principles to you but you somehow you still judge me and conclude I have insufficient principles (i.e. you conclude I‘m conflicted but that is not what I wrote). We keep going in circles in our discussion. I realize you probably think you’re trying to help me learn and save me from destruction, i.e. you seem to be acting out Charlton’s call to action (but I highly disagree with his odorous judgemental style of evangelizing). I certainly have gone through phases where I thought I needed to wake people up about certain matters and employed blunt calls for self-introspection, so I am not claiming I am any better. The society is transforming but I doubt any of that judgemental speech will do anything other than incite his cohorts to become more aggressive in their sin of blaming others.

Afaics, his blog on Jesus is repeating what I wrote to you.

[CoinCube]

...
I do not like this dogmatic chap Bruce Charlton.

He goes on and on as if he so sure of himself … passing judgements on others … It’s as if you did not read what I wrote about the Bible says only God shall pass these judgements.
...
Does Charlton really think that anyone he criticizes is really going to listen to him   
...
His blog on Jesus is repeating what I wrote to you.

Yes his position on the teachings of Jesus match what you say your position is. Exactly the same almost word for word. The rest of his worldview presumably follows from that core belief.

Yet from this shared truth you diverge into very different ethical systems.

This extreme divergence despite starting from the same starting beliefs should be if nothing else grounds for deep reflection.

We cannot escape or avoid making judgments in this world. Given our flawed natures we must make them with humility and always strive to avoid hypocrisy acknowledging that ultimate judgement will be rendered by God. If you have not yet had a chance I do recommend reading the biblical commentary on this topic I linked to previously.

Matthew 7:1: The Most Misunderstood Bible Verse
http://thediscerningsheep.blogspot.com/2014/12/matthew-71-most-misunderstood-bible.html?m=1

I agree that we keep going in circles in our discussion. I will make this my final reply and give you the last word.

 

[Hyperme.sh]

We cannot escape or avoid making judgments in this world. Given our flawed natures we must make them with humility and always strive to avoid hypocrisy acknowledging that ultimate judgement will be rendered by God. If you have not yet had a chance I do recommend reading the biblical commentary on this topic I linked to previously.

On that note, we can fully agree, without trying to further discuss the other differences in our philosophical outlook. So maybe that is a good place for us to end up for now. God bless.

[Hyperme.sh]

BCH is Satoshi’s Bitcoin. SegWit is the fake that can be stolen:

It is doing well, all things considered. I think it has potential for a "fake" copy of bitcoin, it is actually dong very well and is priced above ethereum.

SegWit is the fake copy.

This is going to be quite shocking to most of you.

Satoshi planned it out well, that you would have your “fingertips burned up to your armpits” to teach you about immutability.

But since its just another altcoin, it will remain in the public just like hundreds of coins in it existence.

Disagree.

It seems you’ve failed to comprehend my posts in this thread.

BCH is the only airdropped (i.e. not a totally new issuance such as LTC) fork of Bitcoin which is compatible with Satoshi’s immutable design for Bitcoin. SegWit is the fake, and it has huge security holes.

There are very powerful groups that are prepared to buy all your BCH with BTC that they plan to steal back with a chain reorganization. I am talking about people with millions of BTC.

Also the design of SegWit enables any mining cartel to steal all of those outputs, unlike non-SegWit transactions (the BTC for BCH can be stolen because the attacker has the private key for when he spent the BTC for BCH and can double-spend it later).

maybe BCH will be shitcoin, bch can not compete with Bitcoin

BCH is Bitcoin. SegWit is not Bitcoin.

Did you comprehend what I wrote?

But anyway, investors still believe in BTC very much

BCH is BTC. BTCSegWit is not BTC. What are you saying exactly?

Are you saying that most people are ignorant of technology and thus they think SegWit BTC is BTC and thus they are fooled? If so, yes I agree with you and they may lose their BTC because of their ignorance.

We have industrial miners mining bitcoin and bitcoincash. Miners need to choose one for a long term predictable profit. (regular switching won't be suitable for large miners.) And Bitcoin is still the king in that algo.

Bitcoin is the king. So why would SegWit which is not Bitcoin win when in fact SegWit attempts to steal revenue from miners by moving transactions offchain and renders proof-of-work insecure because it creates a booty of “pay to anyone” transactions which a mining cartel can steal.

SegWit is incompatible with Satoshi’s protocol and destroys the security of proof-of-work. BCH is compatible with Satoshi’s protocol and does not create insecurity.

Besides the whales of Bitcoin have already decided and they’re just waiting to trap all the fools in SegWit BTC and steal your BTC from you with a chain reorganization. They’ve warned you all many times but you’re all hard-headed. So the only way they can teach you to respect the immutability of Bitcoin is by taking your BTC away from you.

[Risk Mgmt]

English is not my first language - so I apologize in advance for any errors in below statement or making no sense.

My own opinion and I mean no disrespect to anyone - there definitely is a right and wrong.
One may say that depends on ones circumstances and his/her choices - Which is true...but their so called RIGHT CHOICE today (which maybe actually is Wrong) they may lack foresight on its future consequences...which may arrive year later -- which they may not attribute to the choice they made one year back.    The entire choice (Right/ Wrong) depends on ones INTENTION.   If you have right/wrong intention? 

 I am here ( I know the current corrupt Capitalism system is messed up ) yet knowing this I am participating --- I am alive, but with no purpose to life aside from my own self-interest not of yours - I want to make money - I can invest in OIL -- knowing someones warring over that oil.  i.e like the blood diamond.   But hey - I just want money and Im not the one doing war...I'm here safe and sound. 

In our current system of secularism-based , we believe that life has no purpose aside from eat, party, money etc because there is no reflection (THINKING enacted) on after life / right / wrong morals....- today we have many things happening out in open that were banned decades prior.  Perhaps the attitude is there is no accountability after death, so that if I get away with anything here in this world - I have gotten away -- Hitler has gotten away or Cheney will get away - them Zionist will get away. 

Yet getting away doesn't really matter, because all have to depart(die) some point anyway.   And if he doesn't get away with doing that which gives self pleasure - which society holds to be an offence - it still doesn't matter,  death is still staring from future.  So what, if it comes sooner rather than later...I will live to my fullest -- with no accountability.   So this is what it is.  Because to most there is no thought on after-life or after-accountability.  who cares....be the wolf of Wall street.

Sorry for my gibberish.


 

[marcus_of_augustus]

Asset hyperinflation.

It's not that difficult, fiat is now being trashed with ever greater speed .... only poor old gold is being manipulated into stagnation by the fiat controllers.

[OROBTC]

Asset hyperinflation.

It's not that difficult, fiat is now being trashed with ever greater speed .... only poor old gold is being manipulated into stagnation by the fiat controllers.

Gold will be back in due course (probably, but hey, I don't really know in an environment of $5500 BTC).  Certainly cryptos lately have been sucking all the liquidity right out of the room that used to go to gold.

[Hyperme.sh]

English is not my first language - so I apologize in advance for any errors in below statement or making no sense.

My own opinion and I mean no disrespect to anyone - there definitely is a right and wrong.
One may say that depends on ones circumstances and his/her choices - Which is true...but their so called RIGHT CHOICE today (which maybe actually is Wrong) they may lack foresight on its future consequences...which may arrive year later -- which they may not attribute to the choice they made one year back.    The entire choice (Right/ Wrong) depends on ones INTENTION.   If you have right/wrong intention?  

 I am here ( I know the current corrupt Capitalism system is messed up ) yet knowing this I am participating --- I am alive, but with no purpose to life aside from my own self-interest not of yours - I want to make money - I can invest in OIL -- knowing someones warring over that oil.  i.e like the blood diamond.   But hey - I just want money and Im not the one doing war...I'm here safe and sound.  

In our current system of secularism-based , we believe that life has no purpose aside from eat, party, money etc because there is no reflection (THINKING enacted) on after life / right / wrong morals....- today we have many things happening out in open that were banned decades prior.  Perhaps the attitude is there is no accountability after death, so that if I get away with anything here in this world - I have gotten away -- Hitler has gotten away or Cheney will get away - them Zionist will get away.  

Yet getting away doesn't really matter, because all have to depart(die) some point anyway.   And if he doesn't get away with doing that which gives self pleasure - which society holds to be an offence - it still doesn't matter,  death is still staring from future.  So what, if it comes sooner rather than later...I will live to my fullest -- with no accountability.   So this is what it is.  Because to most there is no thought on after-life or after-accountability.  who cares....be the wolf of Wall street.

Sorry for my gibberish.

Agreed we strive to understand how to live in harmony and not just destroy each other, but putting ideologues in charge with their aliasing error as follows meaning we get Frankenstein horrific outcomes:

Here is a version of the Blockstream koolaid deception and lies:

EDIT: it should be pointed out that miners have an incentive to support a non-segwit chain increasing the max number of BTC to 42 million even if there is no chain reorganization, because they can attempt to take that ongoing SegWit value increased block rewards for themselves, because as viewed from Satoshi’s protocol, this is a “pay to anyone” transaction]. A chain reorganization An increase in the mining rewards is a way to capture booty and lock miners into the fork with the incentive of the booty to jumpstart the consensus around taking SegWitincreasing rewards for the miners. So it is not quite accurate to state that SegWit Increasing the max number of BTC to 42 million requires a contentious fork. It merely requires that miners act in their best interests to "protect Satoshi’s protocol and the immutability and security of Bitcoin for the maximum long-term value of their hardware investment", as well as maximizing their profit in the short-term.

The above is how a Blockhead would spread disinformation and propaganda.

The truth is that SegWit was a change that violated the immutability of Bitcoin if it is assumed that miners will not treat the transactions as “pay to anyone”. The Real Bitcoin refuses to honor that change because it demands we do not fall down that slippery slope of mutating Bitcoin. So stealing[accepting the donations] from the fools who “pay to anyone” is honoring the immutable protocol of Bitcoin. Yet a Blockhead would try to play politics and equate protecting the immutability with doing the opposite.

In-fucking-credulous!

And for a follow-up it, the propaganda gets even more twisted:

It was a lie, which was kind of the underlying point.

It is not a valid point. Those who make donations to miners in order to fund the blockchain are very generous and appreciated. Miners who honor Satoshi’s protocol gladly accept those donations. There is no lie/deception on their part. Blockheads are lying about the reality of what immutability means.

We can suppose his point is that two wrongs don’t make it right or that stealing is always immoral. But it belies an understanding of contract law and reality. The deception was initiated by Blockstream who made people believe that donations were transactions. Society can’t function if we reward deception by giving retards and rapefugees a vote. If the protocol says one thing, and some fools do another thing, they are culpable, not society.

Instead we must allow the free market to evaluate and adjust. We make consultations with others in our chosen society. People make personal judgements based on their local observations. But ideologues who think they have the absolute truth are evil. Just because we know of God, doesn’t mean we are God.

Of course this was as expected the bitcoin community dont want any new token that is a copy paste of bitcoin in the this businesses is nothing without there customers the users clearly choose bitcoin instead of BCH that is fijded centralized corporate entity. This will become another airdrop a free money for bitcoin investor and then convert the new token to bitcoin, well be seeing some bullish price again.

n00bs have no clue.

They want transaction scaling on the reserve currency of crypto which makes no sense because it violates the immutability and sacrifices security which are the key attributes that gives the reserve currency its stature as compared to altcoins.

The transaction scaling is available on altcoins and on exchanges.

That n00bs think SegWit is better because it adds more features exemplifies how they are technologically ignorant sheep who wilfully (boisterously and even belligerently) want to be deceived into to making donations to the miners as I explained in my prior post.

BCH gave the n00bs what they wanted which is an increase in block size (some fixed amount of transaction capacity increase), without destroying the security as SegWit does. It is at a higher same stature as any other airdrop, because it has the backing of the large mining cartels. It is probably just a decoy and not superior to the The Real Bitcoin (TRB = no SegWit), but it is certainly better than the SegWit insecure crapola which encourages users to spend their transactions to “pay to anyone” on TRB (aka BTCSatoshi) protocol which will probably ultimately prevail.

Can you give is the TLDR of why you think Segwit is 'also an altcoin'?

The mods already deleted it (you’re not allowed to read it). And I am not going to write it again. Try clicking the link in the prior post, but note that archive.is appears to not be functioning properly at the moment.

SegWit isn’t even an altcoin. It is a donation protocol that rides on top of BTC that enables fools to donate their BTC to the miners (in a future double-spend) when ever they use a SegWit transaction. It’s a clever scheme your masters have devised to separate you from your BTC. Yet some idiots support this as if it is some ideologically correct community consensus or some other rapefugee logic.

Core will not tell you this, but the reality will end up vindicating me as it usually does. Did you also disagree with me when I said buy LTC at $6? How about when I said nibble on Byteball when it was $1 million mcap? When I said buy ETH at $45?

[Risk Mgmt]

OROBTC
Hyperme.sh


I was expecting signal of some corrections in markets but everything did well today....BTC continues to rise.
DOW / NASDAQ up.  If everyone is bullish -- perhaps I should exit now yes?

[Hyperme.sh]

Yes start taking some profits because November could be a wild month:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2259054.msg22961085#msg22961085
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2251762.msg22968401#msg22968401

But we may have one more move up in BTC and leg down in alts (or at least BCH). Altcoins should moon again as BTC slows down.

Also another Mt.Gox severity crash could come by perhaps 2018:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2264145.msg22951544#msg22951544

As for the DJIA, seems to be similar to BTC and starting to moon but probably will need a correction before really blasting off to 38,000. Armstrong even wrote surprisingly that the DJIA could potentially extend out until 2032 as a bull market but that surprised me. Was that a typo? Did he mean 2023? Confused me. How can DJIA go into a phase transition upwards towards 38,000 yet sustain that until 2032. Makes no sense.

Gold will be back in due course (probably, but hey, I don't really know in an environment of $5500 BTC).  Certainly cryptos lately have been sucking all the liquidity right out of the room that used to go to gold.

You’ve been warned many times that gold is likely going to SLINGSHOT crash but there’s no point in mentioning it because you buy high any way. I know you always buy and never sell. So no point in discussing the price. You just buy and do not look at the price.

I told you when BTC was back in the low $2000s or high $1000s that BTC would go to $5100. I told you back at $650 to buy, buy, buy. I told you to buy LTC at $6 (and I told everyone to sell at $80 and repurchase in the low $40s).

Armstrong still does not understand that governments can not shutdown Bitcoin, just like governments can not shut down an endospore bacteria. Private keys can hide and reappear any where there is a communications network. The government can play Whac-A-Mole but they can never kill cryptocurrency. Somebody please email Armstrong! Also Mossad created Bitcoin to destroy the nation-state’s central banks and bring about a one-world reserve currency which they will control because research models that proof-of-work must become centralized as miner revenue from transaction fees become more significant than block reward (find my links on prior pages of this thread).

Today we saw Bitcoin (BTC) close and break through the 5000-dollar mark for the first time –BTC recovered fast from the recent downturn to 2800 level found mid-September, the issue I have is what is the long-term prospects with such a cryptocurrency. The questions we must ask is will Governments allow such a currency without the control of the government or central bank to prosper? Currently the market cap of BTC is just shy of 100 billion dollars (a market cap larger than Goldman Sachs) and the whole crypto industry is around 200 billion dollars. Lagarde IMF’s head, came out and stated it is time to get serious about the cryptocurrencies, perhaps suggesting the SDR’s will transform into being a cryptocurrency in the future. However, the structure of BTC makes it difficult to see Governments adopting BTC in its current form, within the Banking sector to transfer money from A to B one would need to provide a list of documents such as KYC as to where the money came from and who you are sending it to. Why would BTC be any different? A soon as there is an excuse for Governments to come in, such as Tax evasion, Terrorism or more illegal trade – in my view BTC will be shut down (or deemed illegal) and replaced by a Government controlled cryptocurrency – which will lose its current appeal. Still a very profitable day for those involved, enjoy the ride as there will be much volatility going forward as new regulations and laws are being passed.

[Hyperme.sh]

unfortunately, I need to agree with Jamie Dimon when he said that Bitcoin might be shut down by the governments.

They can’t shut down private keys. And have many reasons not to do so!

They can go after the ICO scams though to some extent.

Presumably Dimon has been told by his bankster buddies that the BItcoin bubble will be popped soon. He apparently does not realize how they are planning to pop it (the elite employ compartmentalisation to prevent their underlings from knowing all their plans and schemes). I am giving you a plausible theory.

They might increase regulation of the exchanges but they can’t stop decentralized ledgers (however there are no sustainably decentralized ledgers yet).

The basic blockchain idea is that if the government seizes your server, you are not fucked.

Rather, the government has to seize all or most of the servers, which if they are distributed between several jurisdictions, likely to be difficult. So, if the US government seizes all the US servers, most people will scarcely notice. They will just log into a host in some other jurisdiction.

Governments notoriously find it extremely difficult to cooperate or coordinate with other governments.

And the perspective from someone in a country where people had to in recent past disobey the government to survive, e.g. perhaps in a former USSR nation:

No government in this world can stop bitcoin technically as this would require to turn off the internet, what isn't possible as every decent developed country highly rely on it.

Yes, they can declare it as illegal but this will not stop it as people aren't able to understand why it should be illegal? To declare it as illegal could have a negative impact on the government's credibility and this isn't good if you want to rob your citizens.

Somebody please email Armstrong!

Okay I decided to email him:


---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Expert info about Bitcoin that Martin doesn’t know
From:    "Shelby Moore" <shelby@cxxlpxxe.com>
Date:    Fri, October 13, 2017 8:36 pm
To:      armstrongeconomics@gmail.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Martin,

I want to explain some EXTREMELY IMPORTANT facts—which you may not be
aware of—about cryptocurrencies and blockchains (or more generally
“decentralized ledgers” because for example my altcoin design has no
blocks and currency is not the only use of a decentralized consensus on
time-stamps).

I called your receptionist at your Wilmington, Delaware office and asked
what is the best way to get an important message to you and I was told to
email you, and if I really felt it was necessary I could follow up with a
short voice message. I stopped emailing you some years ago, because I know
you’re busy, and my emails were getting more and more “deranged”
(discombobulated, etc) because of my illness. I’m a programmer and
autodidactic polymath similar to yourself. My illness was finally
diagnosed as gut TB in January 2017. Didn’t even know TB could be present
in the gut with no cough. So that explains my autoimmunity decline of the
past several years. Now I’m battling liver and endocrine damage from that
ordeal. I started following your writings when you were unjustly
incarcerated and I have worked tirelessly to correct incorrect information
about you on the web. I even for example recently slapped down the 160 IQ
creator of the term “open source” when he slandered you about Civil War
history:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg22683719#msg22683719

I had in the back of mind that one day I will meet you at one of your
conferences, but I had not had the time nor the funds lately (several year
debilitating illness devastated my career and finances). But I presume it
will happen eventually (because for example I will launch a very important
altcoin soon). So I figured we could talk in person at some future
juncture, about the things we agree on and our differing perspectives in
other areas if ever you had the time. But I presume you’re a very busy
person as I am also. So let me shoot off this email to you with some
important information.

I am one of the foremost experts in this area known by other such experts
(but my name is not highly publicized) which I will document for you
below:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelby-moore-iii-b31488b0

https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@anonymint/anonymint-from-bitcointalk-introducing-myself

http://steemit.com/@anonymint

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=400235.msg16925985#msg16925985
(list of all my past usernames on that discussion site)

My current username on the venerable Bitcointalk discussion site is
Hyperme.sh. I recently defended your warning about Bitcoin and governments
w.r.t. “black money” or the money laundering “crime”:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg22488770#msg22488770

However, you’re failing to understand that the private keys for
cryptocurrency can never be destroyed by the government. It’s even more
difficult than the government confiscating physical gold from every
household. How will they find all those private keys! Impossible. Thus
cryptocurrency is like an endospore bacteria that can’t ever be
permanently killed. It will if necessary lay dormant and come back to life
as soon as there is a communication channel for the decentralized ledger
to begin functioning again. There will exist a plurality of copies of the
state of the decentralized ledger spread out all over the global. The
governments can play Whac-A-Mole but they can never shut it down unless
they turn off the Internet, but they can’t turn off the Internet because
their own systems rely on it. And even if they did turn off the Internet,
hackers have short wave radio and even [electronic drone
pigeons](https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1904415.msg22655189#msg22655189).

While it’s true that the national governments can shut down physical
commerce within their borders, they’re powerless to shut down commerce
which lives entirely in the virtual realm, such as everything related to
information technology which trades entirely on the Internet, especially
that which is done by nanotransactions. Is the government going to track
down every sex chat on WeChat? China can’t even stop it, as the people
have become wise enough to use VPNs and even joke phrases which have
obfuscated double meanings so the thought police are impotent. The
national governments will try, but they will fail to regulate the
Knowledge Age. They will kill the industrial age and everything tangible,
but that is because the Industrial Age is dying. I had a series of blogs
about this phenomenon which you seemed to also write about, but I was
writing about it before I ever read you write about this epochal
transition in technology:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355212.msg3799720#msg3799720

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html

https://steemit.com/science/@anonymint/the-golden-knowledge-age-is-rising

Now you’re sort of correct that up until now the predominant use case of
cryptocurrency is speculation in cryptocurrency. But decentralized ledgers
are diversifying. For example, Steemit put blogging on a blockchain, so
that no one can be censored. I’m working on applying this to
disintermediating every centralized website on the Internet, as I plan to
overturn Facebook, Github, Reddit, Wikipedia (so they can’t print lies
about you!), etc..

You’re missing about on a epochal transformation that is perhaps as earth
shattering as the Internet. It is like the Second Computer Revolution
applied to networks. Do not miss this train.

I know so many technological details about for example Byzantine agreement
versus probabilistic Byzantine fault tolerant consensus that I can't
possibly put it all in this email. For example, review my explanation of a
massive miner attack coming against the SegWit “fork” of Bitcoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2259054.0;viewResults

(archived:  http://archive.is/cQTM1)

The above discussion is highly detailed and will introduce you to just how
presumably ignorant you likely are about the myriad of deep details
required to be able to understand what is really going on in our sector.
As you often said, experience is the best teacher. I have been doing
blockchain research non-stop since I wrote the following essay in March
2013 about Bitcoin — The Digital Kill Switch:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160612.0

Btw, I was investing in silver before that, in fact buying Comex bars
during the 2008/9 crash and minting rounds and shipping them to @rpietila
in Finland for example. In January 2013, @rpietila asked me if he should
sell $100,000 of silver and buy BTC at $10 and I concurred. He became a
multi-millionaire during the 2013 run to $1200 (but apparently he lost it
all since then). I was not able to invest because my illness had
devastated my life and I had lost $75,000 in 2012 because I was not
following you yet closely and I followed some idiot promoter Graham
Summers into shorting China. So it was around August 2012 that I started
to notice you were calling for a long-term bull market in the DJIA. But it
was some months until I understood better your theme and by that time it
was too late for my former depleted savings. Any way, I will earn it back
as an altcoin programmer soon. I’m no longer a silverbug. I learned a lot
over the past decade. Before that I was basically just a programmer with
an interest in marketing and economics.

Tangentially, my theory is Mossad created Bitcoin as a creative
destruction to undermine the national central banks and bring about their
destiny in Revelation. I offer some technical evidence and arguments that
Satoshi planned it out this way in advance (you’re going to have to dig
into my many posts to find all my arguments which are spread around,
similar to your blogging style):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg22604852#msg22604852

I hope you have updated yourself on the evidence that Mossad did 9/11. It
is much more compelling now than it was when I heard about that theory
several years ago:

https://steemit.com/politics/@anonymint/israel-s-mossad-did-9-11

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg22399270#msg22399270

In particular, I want you to understand that recent research has modeled
that Bitcoin can’t converge to consensus as the revenue from transaction
fees becomes more significant than the revenue from protocol dictated
block rewards (and I’m presuming you understand some of the rudimentary
technical details about how block chain mining works):

https://gist.github.com/shelby3/e0c36e24344efba2d1f0d650cd94f1c7

Some further discussion of that:

http://archive.is/8TEFu#selection-20289.0-20289.23
(also
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2251762.msg22889412#msg22889412)

Note my religious or philosophical beliefs are nuanced:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg22430869#msg22430869

(you will need to read one or two pages of discussion between myself and
the USA doctor @CoinCube to get the full Gist of my existential
philosophical stance on religion)

I think one major difference between your and my world views has been that
you do not believe there is any elite in control, and while I agree with
you because I understand the inviolable Second Law of Thermodynamics, I
believe the facts will show that the Zionists have a trend going on
towards world domination in terms of the world of finance. I would be
interested to delve into this deeper however. I believe you’re correct
that the cycles are inviolable, but I also think during the current cycle,
the Zionists become very strong before they ultimately fail as written in
Revelation.

I’m not claiming for example that the Ukrainians did not have a real
revolution or that your predictions about rising separatism is not correct
and not due to a cycle. No. What I am saying is this cycle is aligned with
the rise of the diabolical Zionist plan. Again this requires deep
discussion which we can’t achieve in email. We could easily misunderstand
the details and nuances of each others’ arguments if only in email.

I want to thank you for all that you do. And we’re in this fight on your
side for benefit of humankind. God bless.

P.S. I’m available on Skype: shelby.h.moore.iii From there other contact
information can be provided if anyone wishes to talk with me. Again I am a
very experienced programmer as well, but I’m not particularly
kwowledgeable about machine learning although I did some autodidact
research on A.I. in the 1980s.




I received the following auto-reply:


---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Thank You For Your Email Re: Expert info about Bitcoin that Martin doesn’t know
From:    "Martin Armstrong" <armstrongeconomics@gmail.com>
Date:    Fri, October 13, 2017 8:36 pm
To:      shelby@cxxlpxxe.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your email. This inbox is not actively monitored by our customer service team. If this is a customer service inquiry, please visit http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/contact to submit your question or comment for most timely response.

[Hyperme.sh]

Bitcoin is going much higher over the long-term, but there will likely be another Mt. Gox severity crash (perhaps not in November though, maybe early 2018), and I already provided a link to my thread which explains what that crisis could possibly be.

"corrections" are never big or epic or anything, they are always logical and properly sized.

Mt. Gox.

Will it happen again?

Mt. Gox had 75% of trading volume I think.

So if it happens again it can’t be an exchange. Has to be something else which is centralized.

Discussion continued.

Also this from James A. Donald, the first person who communicated with Satoshi on the mailing list where Bitcoin was announced:

A bad time to invest in Bitcoin
October 8th, 2017

Back in 2013 I urged people to invest in Bitcoin.

Yesterday someone asked my cleaning lady to invest in Bitcoin.

Now if someone had asked her to accept payment in Bitcoin, or send payment in Bitcoin, then this would be compelling evidence that one should invest in Bitcoin.

But when cleaning ladies are asked to invest in Bitcoin, not a good investment.

When Bitcoin began, everyone was a miner, and everyone was a peer, everyone stored the entire blockchain. Which was great, but did not scale. And now people are struggling with half assed ideas about how to get it to scale.  Bitcoin can no longer deliver on its original promises, has not figured out what new promises to make, and many of the new promises are unworkable, or are scams, or are likely to turn into scams.

[OROBTC]

...

Excellent email to Armstrong there Mr. .sh.

I wonder if he would read it?  Busy he must be.  On the other hand, he has to have read a LOT to come up with his cycle theories and get all that history under his belt.

Bet he would be an interesting dinner partner over a leisurely steak!

*   *   *

Re buying BTC now, just this morning a (female, about 52) cousin just asked me to help her get into it.

Perhaps we have now reached that "Shoeshine Boy" point, perhaps a short term Sell at least for now?

[Crankautist]

Double bottom at 5,6 k.
There is strong support and volume.
Selling now would be very questionable.
Wait for november...

[Hyperme.sh]

Double bottom at 5,6 k.
There is strong support and volume.
Selling now would be very questionable.
Wait for november...

I agree. Looks like $8000+ may be the top. It’s a phase transition, so can’t terminate until my nose is bleeding profusely. Probably correct from $8000 back down to $5000s, then the altcoins will moon. Then later in 2018 perhaps comes the collapse into a crypto winter.