[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[Ente]

There is no guarantee that BTC would have increased in value since August, nor is there any guarantee that someone would have held onto BTC this entire time.

Also, bitfinex customers who lost money in the hack had the potential to buy additional BFX tokens at a substantial discount, especially early after the hack.

Another point is that ~66% of the bitcoin held by Bitfinex was stolen, however holders of bitcoin only lost about 36% of their holdings -- this was made possible by the fact that holders of other cryptos, and dollars also suffered losses.

Sure. Had the price gone down since then, customers could have even gained from the hack, Bitcoin-wise.
I did buy more tokens and sold all of them when the bitcoin exchange rate went up for some time. Still, I just got out of all that with a little less than 36% loss only, calculated in Bitcoin.

Ah well, either way, I hope there will be no more hcked exchanges (right, eh?), and if they get hacked, they pull it together as well as bitfinex.
All of this won't change the fact that I won't put coins onto exchanges any more nevertheless.

Ente

[deisik]

There is no guarantee that BTC would have increased in value since August, nor is there any guarantee that someone would have held onto BTC this entire time.

Also, bitfinex customers who lost money in the hack had the potential to buy additional BFX tokens at a substantial discount, especially early after the hack.

Another point is that ~66% of the bitcoin held by Bitfinex was stolen, however holders of bitcoin only lost about 36% of their holdings -- this was made possible by the fact that holders of other cryptos, and dollars also suffered losses.

Sure. Had the price gone down since then, customers could have even gained from the hack, Bitcoin-wise.
I did buy more tokens and sold all of them when the bitcoin exchange rate went up for some time. Still, I just got out of all that with a little less than 36% loss only, calculated in Bitcoin

Disclaimer, a crazy conspiracy theory follows

If we assume that it was a sham hack and in fact no one actually stole any bitcoins, Bitfinex would have earned hefty amounts of dough by playing this trick. At first, they shorted bitcoins prior to the alleged hack (and earned a lot), then claimed to have been hacked. When the price predictably crashed, they happily closed their short positions (booking insane profits). After the dust settled and the sun started to shine again with Bitcoin rocket launched to the moon, they eagerly return half of the "stolen" coins denominated in dollars, thereby earning even more dough. Is this theory not crazy enough to be true? If it is not, refresh your memory and recall the Cryptsy scam then

[davidgdg]

There is no guarantee that BTC would have increased in value since August, nor is there any guarantee that someone would have held onto BTC this entire time.

Also, bitfinex customers who lost money in the hack had the potential to buy additional BFX tokens at a substantial discount, especially early after the hack.

Another point is that ~66% of the bitcoin held by Bitfinex was stolen, however holders of bitcoin only lost about 36% of their holdings -- this was made possible by the fact that holders of other cryptos, and dollars also suffered losses.

Sure. Had the price gone down since then, customers could have even gained from the hack, Bitcoin-wise.
I did buy more tokens and sold all of them when the bitcoin exchange rate went up for some time. Still, I just got out of all that with a little less than 36% loss only, calculated in Bitcoin

Disclaimer, a crazy conspiracy theory follows

If we assume that it was a sham hack and in fact no one actually stole any bitcoins, Bitfinex would have earned hefty amounts of dough by playing this trick. At first, they shorted bitcoins prior to the alleged hack (and earned a lot), then claimed to have been hacked. When the price predictably crashed, they happily closed their short positions (booking insane profits). After the dust settled and the sun started to shine again with Bitcoin rocket launched to the moon, they eagerly return half of the "stolen" coins denominated in dollars, thereby earning even more dough. Is this theory not crazy enough to be true? If it is not, refresh your memory and recall the Cryptsy scam then

And risk getting sued/arrested and destroying your highly profitable 200m dollar company in the process

[Vyrez]

Is there a way to set when to liquidate a position?  So I don't ahve to keep checking the prices?

[deisik]

There is no guarantee that BTC would have increased in value since August, nor is there any guarantee that someone would have held onto BTC this entire time.

Also, bitfinex customers who lost money in the hack had the potential to buy additional BFX tokens at a substantial discount, especially early after the hack.

Another point is that ~66% of the bitcoin held by Bitfinex was stolen, however holders of bitcoin only lost about 36% of their holdings -- this was made possible by the fact that holders of other cryptos, and dollars also suffered losses.

Sure. Had the price gone down since then, customers could have even gained from the hack, Bitcoin-wise.
I did buy more tokens and sold all of them when the bitcoin exchange rate went up for some time. Still, I just got out of all that with a little less than 36% loss only, calculated in Bitcoin

Disclaimer, a crazy conspiracy theory follows

If we assume that it was a sham hack and in fact no one actually stole any bitcoins, Bitfinex would have earned hefty amounts of dough by playing this trick. At first, they shorted bitcoins prior to the alleged hack (and earned a lot), then claimed to have been hacked. When the price predictably crashed, they happily closed their short positions (booking insane profits). After the dust settled and the sun started to shine again with Bitcoin rocket launched to the moon, they eagerly return half of the "stolen" coins denominated in dollars, thereby earning even more dough. Is this theory not crazy enough to be true? If it is not, refresh your memory and recall the Cryptsy scam then

And risk getting sued/arrested and destroying your highly profitable 200m dollar company in the process

Cryptsy did get sued in the US, and so what?

Hong-Kong is not the US in the least, and right now it seems that Bitfinex doesn't have any physical presence altogether as what some dudes said some time ago. So the risks were minimal. It is for us it may look as risky as hell, but they may have factored in and accounted for all possible developments, and we see now that what I bring forward as just a conspiracy theory would in practice be a wise strategy how to steal the jackpot and not get thrown out of the casino at that

[Sukrim]

They are not incorporated in Hong Kong, so why sue there?

[Bonez0r]

Is there a way to set when to liquidate a position?  So I don't ahve to keep checking the prices?

Yes, it's called a stop order. There are three types: stop, stop limit and trailing stop. You probably just want the plain stop order. To see an explanation of each type, open the drop down list on the order form, then hover over an order type. An "i" icon will appear on the right side, if you click on it you'll see an explanation with examples.

[deisik]

Is there a way to set when to liquidate a position?  So I don't ahve to keep checking the prices?

Yes, it's called a stop order. There are three types: stop, stop limit and trailing stop. You probably just want the plain stop order. To see an explanation of each type, open the drop down list on the order form, then hover over an order type. An "i" icon will appear on the right side, if you click on it you'll see an explanation with examples.

Trailing stop would probably work better

It is essentially the same as the plain good old stop order, but it also allows you to grab profits if the price goes in your favor. If the price goes against you, it would work exactly the same way as a regular stop, but if the price moves in your favor a trailing stop follows the change preserving the initial distance (spread) between the price at which you placed the order and the market price at that moment (but only when the price moves in your favor, so a trailing stop can move only either up or down depending on its type, i.e. Buy or Sell). In short, whenever you want to use a stop order, use a trailing stop order instead

[LeGaulois]

Have you read the news about Bitfinex guys? In any case well done, it is the best theft managed in the history of the Bitcoin on an exchange. They survived everything by repaying their debts in just 8 months and become the new leaders. If they had gone bankrupt, no one would have been repaid. It is a question of confidence, clear communication... Bravo!

[JanpriX]

Have you read the news about Bitfinex guys? In any case well done, it is the best theft managed in the history of the Bitcoin on an exchange. They survived everything by repaying their debts in just 8 months and become the new leaders. If they had gone bankrupt, no one would have been repaid. It is a question of confidence, clear communication... Bravo!

I was surprised when I read the news about it. It is actually mind blowing that they were able to pay their debts in just a couple of months. It just proves that their management and team members are in a different level when it comes to managing hack/theft on their exchange. They also tighten their security to avoid any blunders in the future. Good job Bitfinex to sticking to your words and paying all your customers who got affected by this theft.

[deisik]

Have you read the news about Bitfinex guys? In any case well done, it is the best theft managed in the history of the Bitcoin on an exchange. They survived everything by repaying their debts in just 8 months and become the new leaders. If they had gone bankrupt, no one would have been repaid. It is a question of confidence, clear communication... Bravo!

There are still a lot of questions remaining

And I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes known eventually that the guys who stole the coins were the same guys who had been running the exchange back then. It was all fishy right from the start and remains so. They didn't reveal the addresses to which the stolen funds had been moved, didn't provide information how investigation went and what it ended up with. It might well have been an inside job as many had been speculating back in the day. They might as well have caught the thieves long ago and were just keeping the funds earning plenty of money off them. In any case, I wouldn't be singing eulogies to Bitfinex since there is no reliable info about what actually happened and how it got resolved

[mayax]

Have you read the news about Bitfinex guys? In any case well done, it is the best theft managed in the history of the Bitcoin on an exchange. They survived everything by repaying their debts in just 8 months and become the new leaders. If they had gone bankrupt, no one would have been repaid. It is a question of confidence, clear communication... Bravo!

There are still a lot of questions remaining

And I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes known eventually that the guys who stole the coins were the same guys who had been running the exchange back then. It was all fishy right from the start and remains so. They didn't reveal the addresses to which funds had been moved, didn't provide information how investigation went and what it ended up with. It might well have been an inside job as may had been speculating back in the day. They might as well have caught the thieves long ago and were just keeping the funds earning plenty of money off them. In any case, I wouldn't be singing eulogies to Bitfinex since there is no reliable info about what actually happened and how it got resolved

very good point ! it was an inside job and MANY clients lost a lot of money. Bitfinex continues to be unlicensed, to have NO physical address...

The propaganda said that Bitfinex reimbursement the losses but many of their clients sold their tokens with 30% from price long time ago.

[amaral1977]

So what do you guys think about the way exchanges are handling the possible fork. Bitfinex is stating the even BTC in lending will be dealt with as if it was in the wallet. Do you feel safe enough?

[Sukrim]

I removed all BTC from BFX quite a while ago and I anyways don't believe that a fork will happen.

[deisik]

So what do you guys think about the way exchanges are handling the possible fork. Bitfinex is stating the even BTC in lending will be dealt with as if it was in the wallet. Do you feel safe enough?

There's not enough safety whenever you deal with a third party

Especially if that party already took (or lost, if you disagree) your funds for their own (someone else's) use. Apart from that, could you expand more on what is meant by Bitfinex stating that even bitcoins loaned out will be dealt with? That does it actually mean, that we will not see anything? Could you post a link to their official statement on this issue? I want to see that statement with my own eyes

[amaral1977]

So what do you guys think about the way exchanges are handling the possible fork. Bitfinex is stating the even BTC in lending will be dealt with as if it was in the wallet. Do you feel safe enough?

There's not enough safety whenever you deal with a third party

Especially if that party already took (or lost, if you disagree) your funds for their own (someone else's) use. Apart from that, could you expand more on what is meant by Bitfinex stating that even bitcoins loaned out will be dealt with? That does it actually mean, that we will not see anything? Could you post a link to their official statement on this issue? I want to see that statement with my own eyes

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/197

this is the official announcement regarding forks and margin trading. It states a more reassuring approach than other exchanges. That´s why i asked if people fill safe "enough" with this reassuring

[deisik]

So what do you guys think about the way exchanges are handling the possible fork. Bitfinex is stating the even BTC in lending will be dealt with as if it was in the wallet. Do you feel safe enough?

There's not enough safety whenever you deal with a third party

Especially if that party already took (or lost, if you disagree) your funds for their own (someone else's) use. Apart from that, could you expand more on what is meant by Bitfinex stating that even bitcoins loaned out will be dealt with? That does it actually mean, that we will not see anything? Could you post a link to their official statement on this issue? I want to see that statement with my own eyes

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/197

this is the official announcement regarding forks and margin trading. It states a more reassuring approach than other exchanges. That´s why i asked if people fill safe "enough" with this reassuring

Okay, thank you for the link

I tried to get as much as I could out of that, and the most important part of their letter seems to be the following:

After much analysis, we have chosen to handle the accounting of margin trading and funding based on the model of how stock spinoffs, dividends, and distributions are handled in equity markets. Specifically, in the case of a hardfork event, lenders will receive both BTC and BTU. Anyone that is short BTC/USD or long any BTC trading pair (ETH/BTC, LTC/BTC, etc.) will owe BTU to the lender, effectively making the user short BTU. An exception is in the case that BTC is borrowed but not in use as margin collateral, in which case BTU accrues to the lender. Users that are margin long BTC/USD or short any BTC trading pair will receive BTU

As I got it, all BTC lenders will receive the corresponding amount of BTU tokens which should match the amount of bitcoins that they lent out. So far so good. But it is no clear (and I'm afraid that this is intentionally left unexplained and unspecified) what will happen to ordinary traders, not involved in margin trading. What interests me most here is whether they will receive the BTU tokens in the amount that matches their current BTC balances (i.e. at the moment of the split)? A simple question which should be given a definitive and comprehensive answer

[amaral1977]

So what do you guys think about the way exchanges are handling the possible fork. Bitfinex is stating the even BTC in lending will be dealt with as if it was in the wallet. Do you feel safe enough?

There's not enough safety whenever you deal with a third party

Especially if that party already took (or lost, if you disagree) your funds for their own (someone else's) use. Apart from that, could you expand more on what is meant by Bitfinex stating that even bitcoins loaned out will be dealt with? That does it actually mean, that we will not see anything? Could you post a link to their official statement on this issue? I want to see that statement with my own eyes

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/197

this is the official announcement regarding forks and margin trading. It states a more reassuring approach than other exchanges. That´s why i asked if people fill safe "enough" with this reassuring

Okay, thank you for the link

I tried to get as much as I could out of that, and the most important part of their letter seems to be the following:

After much analysis, we have chosen to handle the accounting of margin trading and funding based on the model of how stock spinoffs, dividends, and distributions are handled in equity markets. Specifically, in the case of a hardfork event, lenders will receive both BTC and BTU. Anyone that is short BTC/USD or long any BTC trading pair (ETH/BTC, LTC/BTC, etc.) will owe BTU to the lender, effectively making the user short BTU. An exception is in the case that BTC is borrowed but not in use as margin collateral, in which case BTU accrues to the lender. Users that are margin long BTC/USD or short any BTC trading pair will receive BTU

As I got it, all BTC lenders will receive the corresponding amount of BTU tokens which should match the amount of bitcoins that they lent out. So far so good. But it is no clear (and I'm afraid that this is intentionally left unexplained and unspecified) what will happen to ordinary traders, not involved in margin trading. What interests me most here is whether they will receive the BTU tokens in the amount that matches their current BTC balances (i.e. at the moment of the split)? A simple question which should be given a definitive answer

That is indeed the most interesting part. Other exchanges like polo clearly state that if you do lend BTC you get BTC, and not BTU.

[ETCethereum]

So what do you guys think about the way exchanges are handling the possible fork. Bitfinex is stating the even BTC in lending will be dealt with as if it was in the wallet. Do you feel safe enough?

There's not enough safety whenever you deal with a third party

Especially if that party already took (or lost, if you disagree) your funds for their own (someone else's) use. Apart from that, could you expand more on what is meant by Bitfinex stating that even bitcoins loaned out will be dealt with? That does it actually mean, that we will not see anything? Could you post a link to their official statement on this issue? I want to see that statement with my own eyes

https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/197

this is the official announcement regarding forks and margin trading. It states a more reassuring approach than other exchanges. That´s why i asked if people fill safe "enough" with this reassuring

i think bitfinex want first leading market, so early run start about use hard fork and bitcoin unlimited
but iam not interest bitcoin unlimited trading, so iam leave in bitfinex

[Ente]

Have you read the news about Bitfinex guys? In any case well done, it is the best theft managed in the history of the Bitcoin on an exchange. They survived everything by repaying their debts in just 8 months and become the new leaders. If they had gone bankrupt, no one would have been repaid. It is a question of confidence, clear communication... Bravo!

There are still a lot of questions remaining

And I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes known eventually that the guys who stole the coins were the same guys who had been running the exchange back then. It was all fishy right from the start and remains so. They didn't reveal the addresses to which the stolen funds had been moved, didn't provide information how investigation went and what it ended up with. It might well have been an inside job as may had been speculating back in the day. They might as well have caught the thieves long ago and were just keeping the funds earning plenty of money off them. In any case, I wouldn't be singing eulogies to Bitfinex since there is no reliable info about what actually happened and how it got resolved

Small correction: they did in fact post the addresses where the bitcoins went to.
Still, a lot of questions remain. Even if they didn't do anything nefarious, a lot of questions remain.

Ente