[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[Sukrim]

It is telling that other exchanges like Bitstamp never had problems in establishing banking relationships.

I would consider that to be quite an overstatement, but yes - many other exchanges seem to have smoothed out their fiat part over the past few years.

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[manchester93]

I don't see what their issuing of bfx tokens has to do with anything at this point.

I don't think the token issuance necessarily has to do with Bitfinex's banking problems, but it certainly might. There was certainly something that caused Wells Fargo to cut them off from the USD banking system, and I'm increasingly worried about what it is. I'd be very surprised if the US government wasn't investigating them on multiple fronts by now.

[amaral1977]

I don't see what their issuing of bfx tokens has to do with anything at this point.

I don't think the token issuance necessarily has to do with Bitfinex's banking problems, but it certainly might. There was certainly something that caused Wells Fargo to cut them off from the USD banking system, and I'm increasingly worried about what it is. I'd be very surprised if the US government wasn't investigating them on multiple fronts by now.

The crypto party is becoming serious as it is no longer a group of tech nerds playing around. there are Billions at stake and some corporate highrollers are in the game deep. So I see corporations trying to get a control grip around this market and states try to get their share in taxes..

[manchester93]

I don't see what their issuing of bfx tokens has to do with anything at this point.

I don't think the token issuance necessarily has to do with Bitfinex's banking problems, but it certainly might. There was certainly something that caused Wells Fargo to cut them off from the USD banking system, and I'm increasingly worried about what it is. I'd be very surprised if the US government wasn't investigating them on multiple fronts by now.

The crypto party is becoming serious as it is no longer a group of tech nerds playing around. there are Billions at stake and some corporate highrollers are in the game deep. So I see corporations trying to get a control grip around this market and states try to get their share in taxes..

I definitely think this is partly about 1) shaking down Bitcoin exchanges/services for the compliance racquet (huge licensing/compliance costs associated with the US market.) And 2) Deterring people (more specifically, US citizens) from using exchanges where they can avoid paying taxes. This event is definitely driving new business towards exchanges like Coinbase (with its VC and Wall Street backing).

[Samarkand]

I don't see what their issuing of bfx tokens has to do with anything at this point.

I don't think the token issuance necessarily has to do with Bitfinex's banking problems, but it certainly might. There was certainly something that caused Wells Fargo to cut them off from the USD banking system, and I'm increasingly worried about what it is. I'd be very surprised if the US government wasn't investigating them on multiple fronts by now.

The crypto party is becoming serious as it is no longer a group of tech nerds playing around. there are Billions at stake and some corporate highrollers are in the game deep. So I see corporations trying to get a control grip around this market and states try to get their share in taxes..

I definitely think this is partly about 1) shaking down Bitcoin exchanges/services for the compliance racquet (huge licensing/compliance costs associated with the US market.) And 2) Deterring people (more specifically, US citizens) from using exchanges where they can avoid paying taxes. This event is definitely driving new business towards exchanges like Coinbase (with its VC and Wall Street backing).

Let´s say your assumptions are true. Why haven´t they been able to set up new banking relationships outside of the US?
They announced to enable withdrawals in currencies like JPY or HKD (or even Euros!) and haven´t been able to deliver
on that promise.

Besides, the US market is big. I agree that compliance costs are ridiculous, but the US is also one of the biggest and therefore
most profitable markets to operate in. If the crypto market will continue to grow in the future, it may be a bad business decision
to opt out of the US just because of compliance costs.

I still suspect that they have problems due to the token creation, which allegedly (!) is the reason why they
were dropped by WF.

[deisik]

I don't see what their issuing of bfx tokens has to do with anything at this point.

I don't think the token issuance necessarily has to do with Bitfinex's banking problems, but it certainly might. There was certainly something that caused Wells Fargo to cut them off from the USD banking system, and I'm increasingly worried about what it is. I'd be very surprised if the US government wasn't investigating them on multiple fronts by now.

The crypto party is becoming serious as it is no longer a group of tech nerds playing around. there are Billions at stake and some corporate highrollers are in the game deep. So I see corporations trying to get a control grip around this market and states try to get their share in taxes..

I definitely think this is partly about 1) shaking down Bitcoin exchanges/services for the compliance racquet (huge licensing/compliance costs associated with the US market.) And 2) Deterring people (more specifically, US citizens) from using exchanges where they can avoid paying taxes. This event is definitely driving new business towards exchanges like Coinbase (with its VC and Wall Street backing).

Let´s say your assumptions are true. Why haven´t they been able to set up new banking relationships outside of the US?
They announced to enable withdrawals in currencies like JPY or HKD (or even Euros!) and haven´t been able to deliver on that promise.

Besides, the US market is big. I agree that compliance costs are ridiculous, but the US is also one of the biggest and therefore most profitable markets to operate in. If the crypto market will continue to grow in the future, it may be a bad business decision to opt out of the US just because of compliance costs

There is a proverb which suits here perfectly

It basically says that it is dangerous to be America's enemy but to be America's friend is fatal (ascribed to Henry Kissinger). The point is that it may turn prohibitively expensive to comply with all the requirements that the US financial authorities may put forward. Regarding completely bypassing the US banking system, this is a task next to impossible to accomplish for an exchange since America is out of hand controlling the international payment system. Whole countries get cut off from it by America's whimsy, so it won't take a lot to deprive some exchange of fiat channels

[pfx]

I became blind to bitfinex notifications & missed this U.S. related announcement.

I'm worried now, though.

I really don't want to end up in a situation where i can't withdraw btc

As a U.S. customer are they going to shut me out? - I've already lived through getting coins stolen, getting the tokens, buying back etc

I've been loaning for a while (that's all I do, other exchange suggestions?) - What will happen if I have loans out & something comes down?

I checked my verification abilities and I'm verified for Deposit & Withdraw of CRYPTOCURRENCIES & TETHER (USD₮) - but not US DOLLAR

- I don't really remember being verified for anything. I don't need to withdraw USD, just btc.

How risky is it to continue, or will I even have the ability to just continue lending?

Should i bail?

[mayax]

move all your funds out of this shit exchanger.

they made a lot of money but they don't want to get a financial license anywhere. why? because all they are doing is fraudulent: fake transactions and volume, market manipulation, so called "hack" which was an inside thing, lies regarding to the bank withdrawals , etc

stay away of Bitfinex.

[deisik]

move all your funds out of this shit exchanger.

they made a lot of money but they don't want to get a financial license anywhere. why? because all they are doing is fraudulent: fake transactions and volume, market manipulation, so called "hack" which was an inside thing, lies regarding to the bank withdrawals , etc

stay away of Bitfinex.

Dude, you become really annoying

What is your agenda here? I will never believe that you are doing this kind of thing out of empathy or compassion since you obviously lack these qualities. I've seen you posting total crap in the Btc-e thread, and now you came here to spread your stench around. I guess you assume that Bitfinex should get a financial license from no other than Uncle Sam himself. Did I get you right? How much do you get paid? Have you been hired by Poloniex? To all, did anyone see this fudster post anything negative about Polo (or any American exchange, for that matter)?

[mayax]

move all your funds out of this shit exchanger.

they made a lot of money but they don't want to get a financial license anywhere. why? because all they are doing is fraudulent: fake transactions and volume, market manipulation, so called "hack" which was an inside thing, lies regarding to the bank withdrawals , etc

stay away of Bitfinex.

Dude, you become really annoying

What is your agenda here? I will never believe that you are doing this kind of thing out of empathy or compassion since you obviously lack these qualities. I've seen you posting total crap in the Btc-e thread, and now you came here to spread your stench around. I guess you assume that Bitfinex should get a financial license from no other than Uncle Sam himself. Did I get you right? How much do you get paid? Have you been hired by Poloniex? To all, did anyone see this fudster post anything negative about Polo (or any American exchange, for that matter)?

no, they can get a financial license from any country and they will not accept US clients. for them, it's not about money. it's about compliance with the financials laws.

Yes, I post alot of things about Poloniex shit. They are in the same boat like Bitfinex, Kraken and so on. There is no agenda, mate.

BTC cannot move forward by having unlicensed exchangers. they are like a plague ; they did and they do a lot of harm to the e-currency industry. Why? because they can disappear over night by stealing the funds or they can be seized anytime. count how many unlicensed exchangers have gone and count how many licensed exchangers have gone too. get real and see the facts.  

[deisik]

move all your funds out of this shit exchanger.

they made a lot of money but they don't want to get a financial license anywhere. why? because all they are doing is fraudulent: fake transactions and volume, market manipulation, so called "hack" which was an inside thing, lies regarding to the bank withdrawals , etc

stay away of Bitfinex.

Dude, you become really annoying

What is your agenda here? I will never believe that you are doing this kind of thing out of empathy or compassion since you obviously lack these qualities. I've seen you posting total crap in the Btc-e thread, and now you came here to spread your stench around. I guess you assume that Bitfinex should get a financial license from no other than Uncle Sam himself. Did I get you right? How much do you get paid? Have you been hired by Poloniex? To all, did anyone see this fudster post anything negative about Polo (or any American exchange, for that matter)?

no, they can get a financial license from any country and they will not accept US clients. for them, it's not about money. it's about compliance with the financials laws.

Yes, I post alot of things about Poloniex shit. They are in the same boat like Bitfinex, Kraken and so on. There is no agenda, mate.

BTC cannot move forward by having unlicensed exchangers. they are like a plague ; they did and they do a lot of harm to the e-currency industry. Why? because they can disappear over night by stealing the funds or they can be seized anytime. count how many unlicensed exchangers have gone and count how many licensed exchangers have gone too. get real and see the facts. 

So what is your point then really?

It doesn't look like you are sincerely warning people to stay away from (unlicensed) Bitcoin exchanges since I've seen your other posts (in the Btc-e thread, more specifically) which were completely void of any compassion, sympathy, or understanding (in fact, it looked as though you derived particular pleasure from the suffering of the Btc-e seizure victims). Are you that insecure? Further, which financial laws do you refer to in particular, i.e. established by whom, the US authorities? Apart from that, what does it change if Bitcoin remains the same Bitcoin, and it can be stolen as easily and as irrevocably as before regardless of whether an exchange is licensed or not?

[mayax]

move all your funds out of this shit exchanger.

they made a lot of money but they don't want to get a financial license anywhere. why? because all they are doing is fraudulent: fake transactions and volume, market manipulation, so called "hack" which was an inside thing, lies regarding to the bank withdrawals , etc

stay away of Bitfinex.

Dude, you become really annoying

What is your agenda here? I will never believe that you are doing this kind of thing out of empathy or compassion since you obviously lack these qualities. I've seen you posting total crap in the Btc-e thread, and now you came here to spread your stench around. I guess you assume that Bitfinex should get a financial license from no other than Uncle Sam himself. Did I get you right? How much do you get paid? Have you been hired by Poloniex? To all, did anyone see this fudster post anything negative about Polo (or any American exchange, for that matter)?

no, they can get a financial license from any country and they will not accept US clients. for them, it's not about money. it's about compliance with the financials laws.

Yes, I post alot of things about Poloniex shit. They are in the same boat like Bitfinex, Kraken and so on. There is no agenda, mate.

BTC cannot move forward by having unlicensed exchangers. they are like a plague ; they did and they do a lot of harm to the e-currency industry. Why? because they can disappear over night by stealing the funds or they can be seized anytime. count how many unlicensed exchangers have gone and count how many licensed exchangers have gone too. get real and see the facts.  

So what is your point then really?

It doesn't look like you are sincerely warning people to stay away from (unlicensed) Bitcoin exchanges since I've seen your other posts (in the Btc-e thread, more specifically) which were completely void of any compassion, sympathy, or understanding (in fact, it looked as though you derived particular pleasure from the suffering of the Btc-e seizure victims). Are you that insecure? Further, which financial laws do you refer in particular, i.e. established by whom, the US authorities? Apart from that, what does it change if Bitcoin remains the same Bitcoin, and it can be stolen as easily and as irrevocably as before regardless of whether an exchange is licensed or not?

the warnings were before Bte was seized(as I warn about Bitfinex, Poloniex and Kraken now).  once, you have been warned for many times about a thing but you continue to use it and in the end you suffer a loss because of that, it means that you are either stupid or arrogant.

what understanding can you have for someone who is using an anonymous exchanger for large amounts? it means he/she assumes the risk and that is OK; do you want to gamble? do it !
if so, don't come to complain, whine, cry on forums about your loss.

yes, i don't feel compassion for arrogant and stupid people. it's my choice.  

[deisik]

Dude, you become really annoying

What is your agenda here? I will never believe that you are doing this kind of thing out of empathy or compassion since you obviously lack these qualities. I've seen you posting total crap in the Btc-e thread, and now you came here to spread your stench around. I guess you assume that Bitfinex should get a financial license from no other than Uncle Sam himself. Did I get you right? How much do you get paid? Have you been hired by Poloniex? To all, did anyone see this fudster post anything negative about Polo (or any American exchange, for that matter)?

no, they can get a financial license from any country and they will not accept US clients. for them, it's not about money. it's about compliance with the financials laws.

Yes, I post alot of things about Poloniex shit. They are in the same boat like Bitfinex, Kraken and so on. There is no agenda, mate.

BTC cannot move forward by having unlicensed exchangers. they are like a plague ; they did and they do a lot of harm to the e-currency industry. Why? because they can disappear over night by stealing the funds or they can be seized anytime. count how many unlicensed exchangers have gone and count how many licensed exchangers have gone too. get real and see the facts. 

So what is your point then really?

It doesn't look like you are sincerely warning people to stay away from (unlicensed) Bitcoin exchanges since I've seen your other posts (in the Btc-e thread, more specifically) which were completely void of any compassion, sympathy, or understanding (in fact, it looked as though you derived particular pleasure from the suffering of the Btc-e seizure victims). Are you that insecure? Further, which financial laws do you refer in particular, i.e. established by whom, the US authorities? Apart from that, what does it change if Bitcoin remains the same Bitcoin, and it can be stolen as easily and as irrevocably as before regardless of whether an exchange is licensed or not?

the warnings were before Bte was seized(as I warn about Bitfinex, Poloniex and Kraken now).  once, you have been warned for many times about a thing but you continue to use it and in the end you suffer a loss because of that, it means that you are either stupid or arrogant.

yes, i don't feel compassion for arrogant and stupid people. it's my choice. 

But you didn't answer my question

That is, what is your point here? If you are not paid and you don't have some hidden agenda, why are you warning people from using all these exchanges? What is the purpose of that? Does it give you double pleasure when an exchange gets seized or ends up scamming after you warned people? Do you understand that it makes you into a complete crook despicable by everyone and his dog? Does that give you pleasure as well? Is this your choice too and what you are really looking for, i.e. to despised and hated?

[bitjoin]

So, one question here... Those that are NOT US Citizens, can they withdraw dollars (After verifying)?

Most likely not, they were talking about manual one-off deals to withdraw 50k+ USD at once a while back, but so far it still seems that the fiat channels on Bitfinex are quite lacking.

If you go on the withdraw section of the bitfinex site and click through to try and withdraw USD you get a message pop up for one time withdraws of over $50k so i guess you contact support and go from there.

On other issues, not sure about the shit coins but i wouldn't want to deal with USA either ongoing.

[Samarkand]

...
That is, what is your point here? If you are not paid and you don't have some hidden agenda, why are you warning people from using all these exchanges? What is the purpose of that? Does it give you double pleasure when an exchange gets seized or ends up scamming after you warned people? Do you understand that it makes you into a complete crook despicable by everyone and his dog? Does that give you pleasure as well? Is this your choice too and what you are really looking for, i.e. to despised and hated?

I don´t know the motivation for his posts, but let me take his side for the sake of argument.
The shutting down of exchanges like BTC-E and Bitfinex could be beneficial for the whole
cryptomarket. One of the reasons cited in the original Bitcoin ETF denial was that
certain unregulated exchanges make up a big part of the Bitcoin markets.

If these exchanges would get shut down for some reason, this would facilitate the
introduction of Bitcoin ETFs. And we all know what this would likely mean for the price.

[Quickseller]

...
That is, what is your point here? If you are not paid and you don't have some hidden agenda, why are you warning people from using all these exchanges? What is the purpose of that? Does it give you double pleasure when an exchange gets seized or ends up scamming after you warned people? Do you understand that it makes you into a complete crook despicable by everyone and his dog? Does that give you pleasure as well? Is this your choice too and what you are really looking for, i.e. to despised and hated?

I don´t know the motivation for his posts, but let me take his side for the sake of argument.
The shutting down of exchanges like BTC-E and Bitfinex could be beneficial for the whole
cryptomarket. One of the reasons cited in the original Bitcoin ETF denial was that
certain unregulated exchanges make up a big part of the Bitcoin markets.

If these exchanges would get shut down for some reason, this would facilitate the
introduction of Bitcoin ETFs. And we all know what this would likely mean for the price.

The ETF denial was more about the manipulation and fake volumes that came out of the Chinese exchanges. Not long after the EFC ruling, the Chinese government started cracking down on this kind of behavior.

[deisik]

...
That is, what is your point here? If you are not paid and you don't have some hidden agenda, why are you warning people from using all these exchanges? What is the purpose of that? Does it give you double pleasure when an exchange gets seized or ends up scamming after you warned people? Do you understand that it makes you into a complete crook despicable by everyone and his dog? Does that give you pleasure as well? Is this your choice too and what you are really looking for, i.e. to despised and hated?

I don´t know the motivation for his posts, but let me take his side for the sake of argument.
The shutting down of exchanges like BTC-E and Bitfinex could be beneficial for the whole
cryptomarket. One of the reasons cited in the original Bitcoin ETF denial was that
certain unregulated exchanges make up a big part of the Bitcoin markets.

If these exchanges would get shut down for some reason, this would facilitate the
introduction of Bitcoin ETFs. And we all know what this would likely mean for the price

I don't think there is any real connection (apart from cooked-up, of course)

What makes you think that shutting down the unregulated exchanges would actually help promote acceptance of Bitcoin ETF's? They will just find another excuse to reject the application. Even if all such exchanges are closed one day (let's assume that), you will still have to face the unregulated nature of Bitcoin itself. In other words, you can't make the whole scene regulated unless you somehow make Bitcoin regulated which is impossible without destroying it first. As to me, the unregulated exchanges should be your least concern since they are not the culprit. Bitcoin itself is

[Samarkand]

...

I don't think there is any real connection (apart from cooked-up, of course)

What makes you think that shutting down the unregulated exchanges would actually help promote acceptance of Bitcoin ETF's? They will just find another excuse to reject the application. Even if all such exchanges are closed one day (let's assume that), you will still have to face the unregulated nature of Bitcoin itself. In other words, you can't make the whole scene regulated unless you somehow make Bitcoin regulated which is impossible without destroying it first. As to me, the unregulated exchanges should be your least concern since they are not the culprit. Bitcoin itself is

I concede that the unregulated nature of Bitcoin itself could be a problem. However, it could be sufficient for the SEC and other regulatory entities, if the
exchanges (= the points where cryptos are changed to fiat and vice versa) are regulated.
If the unregulated exchanges would be gone or only responsible for a negligible part of overall trading volume an ETF would likely be approved.

Imagine a world where the biggest 5 exchanges are places like GDAX, Gemini, Kraken (all US based) combined with some regulated exchanges
in Asia (e.g. Bitflyer, which is also expanding towards many US states). This would make an ETF approval much more likely.
In this scenario Bitfinex could still be functioning, but not at the current level of marketshare.

[deisik]

...

I don't think there is any real connection (apart from cooked-up, of course)

What makes you think that shutting down the unregulated exchanges would actually help promote acceptance of Bitcoin ETF's? They will just find another excuse to reject the application. Even if all such exchanges are closed one day (let's assume that), you will still have to face the unregulated nature of Bitcoin itself. In other words, you can't make the whole scene regulated unless you somehow make Bitcoin regulated which is impossible without destroying it first. As to me, the unregulated exchanges should be your least concern since they are not the culprit. Bitcoin itself is

I concede that the unregulated nature of Bitcoin itself could be a problem. However, it could be sufficient for the SEC and other regulatory entities, if the
exchanges (= the points where cryptos are changed to fiat and vice versa) are regulated.
If the unregulated exchanges would be gone or only responsible for a negligible part of overall trading volume an ETF would likely be approved.

Imagine a world where the biggest 5 exchanges are places like GDAX, Gemini, Kraken (all US based) combined with some regulated exchanges
in Asia (e.g. Bitflyer, which is also expanding towards many US states). This would make an ETF approval much more likely.
In this scenario Bitfinex could still be functioning, but not at the current level of marketshare

This leaves a lot of room for debate

First, bitcoins can be stolen as easily from regulated exchanges as from unregulated ones, so it all comes down to technical competence of the exchange staff regarding security (i.e. not whether exchange is regulated or not). Further, many people around the world would prefer not to have anything to do with "regulated" exchanges since "regulation" in this case would pretty much mean disclosing your identity to the US authorities. And while that might not be an issue for the US citizens (though even this is debatable), this is certainly not the case with people living in other parts of the world. The bottom line is that the status of being a regulated exchange doesn't give any advantage, and, in certain cases, may become a real disadvantage (e.g. insane KYC policies, frozen accounts, and similar shit)

[Iranus]

bitcoins can be stolen as easily from regulated exchanges as from unregulated ones

Regulated exchanges can be insured up to certain amounts, much like bank accounts.  As it says on GDAX:

All USD balances are covered by FDIC insurance, up to a maximum of $250,000 per customer.

so it all comes down to technical competence of the exchange staff regarding security (i.e. not whether exchange is regulated or not).

It also comes down to moral competence of the exchange staff.  Ideally, regulated exchanges would be subject to forced auditing so that it's clear if a security breach or theft has taken place. 

The bottom line is that the status of being a regulated exchange doesn't give any advantage, and, in certain cases, may become a real disadvantage (e.g. insane KYC policies, frozen accounts, and similar shit)

It can give the two advantages that I just mentioned.  There's also the fact that whether we like it or not, governments are not going to allow unregulated exchanges to stay around forever, particularly the US government.  Eventually they'll be accused of aiding a crime such as money laundering (this happened to BTC-e).  That's why Bitfinex has had to be careful dealing with US customers.

Unregulated exchanges are important for people who find their privacy important.  But for some people and for the biggest traders, regulated exchanges can be a better way to go.