[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[deisik]

bitcoins can be stolen as easily from regulated exchanges as from unregulated ones

Regulated exchanges can be insured up to certain amounts, much like bank accounts.  As it says on GDAX:

All USD balances are covered by FDIC insurance, up to a maximum of $250,000 per customer.

so it all comes down to technical competence of the exchange staff regarding security (i.e. not whether exchange is regulated or not).

It also comes down to moral competence of the exchange staff.  Ideally, regulated exchanges would be subject to forced auditing so that it's clear if a security breach or theft has taken place. 

The bottom line is that the status of being a regulated exchange doesn't give any advantage, and, in certain cases, may become a real disadvantage (e.g. insane KYC policies, frozen accounts, and similar shit)

It can give the two advantages that I just mentioned.  There's also the fact that whether we like it or not, governments are not going to allow unregulated exchanges to stay around forever, particularly the US government.  Eventually they'll be accused of aiding a crime such as money laundering (this happened to BTC-e).  That's why Bitfinex has had to be careful dealing with US customers.

Unregulated exchanges are important for people who find their privacy important.  But for some people and for the biggest traders, regulated exchanges can be a better way to go

And what about bitcoins stolen?

How these regulated exchanges can prevent them from being taken by hackers? You said about USD balances but I'm obviously talking about bitcoins, so how are you going to insure them? Regarding auditing, it may be helpful to reveal some shit going on behind the scenes but this in no way prevents this shit from happening in the first place. You can't audit them all day long and round the clock. So getting a license won't prevent exchanges from scamming, just like getting a banking license doesn't prevent banks from going bust or good old running away with their clients' money. As to me, regulated exchanges would give you a false sense of security when, in fact, there is none and cannot be any (given the nature of Bitcoin)

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[mayax]

bitcoins can be stolen as easily from regulated exchanges as from unregulated ones

Regulated exchanges can be insured up to certain amounts, much like bank accounts.  As it says on GDAX:

All USD balances are covered by FDIC insurance, up to a maximum of $250,000 per customer.

so it all comes down to technical competence of the exchange staff regarding security (i.e. not whether exchange is regulated or not).

It also comes down to moral competence of the exchange staff.  Ideally, regulated exchanges would be subject to forced auditing so that it's clear if a security breach or theft has taken place. 

The bottom line is that the status of being a regulated exchange doesn't give any advantage, and, in certain cases, may become a real disadvantage (e.g. insane KYC policies, frozen accounts, and similar shit)

It can give the two advantages that I just mentioned.  There's also the fact that whether we like it or not, governments are not going to allow unregulated exchanges to stay around forever, particularly the US government.  Eventually they'll be accused of aiding a crime such as money laundering (this happened to BTC-e).  That's why Bitfinex has had to be careful dealing with US customers.

Unregulated exchanges are important for people who find their privacy important.  But for some people and for the biggest traders, regulated exchanges can be a better way to go

And what about bitcoins stolen?

How these regulated exchanges can prevent them from being taken by hackers? You said about USD balances but I'm obviously talking about bitcoins, so how are you going to insure them? Regarding auditing, it may be helpful to reveal some shit going on behind the scenes but this in no way prevents this shit from happening in the first place. You can't audit them all day long and round the clock. So getting a license won't prevent exchanges from scamming, just like getting a banking license doesn't prevent banks from going bust or good old running away with their clients' money. As to me, regulated exchanges would give you a false sense of security when, in fact, there is none and cannot be any (given the nature of Bitcoin)

you can ask Coinbase or Gemini how they are insured because they are.
the audit can be done without problem.

the future belongs to regulated exchangers. the others will be seized or they will disappear overnight by scamming. 

the nature of Bitcoin can be anonymous but once the exchangers are licensed, you won't be able to fund or withdrawn without a REAL verification so it will harder for someone to use BTC for shitty things.

[Sukrim]

you can ask Coinbase or Gemini how they are insured because they are.

AFAIK only their fiat holdings are insured, not their crypto.

[deisik]

bitcoins can be stolen as easily from regulated exchanges as from unregulated ones

Regulated exchanges can be insured up to certain amounts, much like bank accounts.  As it says on GDAX:

All USD balances are covered by FDIC insurance, up to a maximum of $250,000 per customer.

so it all comes down to technical competence of the exchange staff regarding security (i.e. not whether exchange is regulated or not).

It also comes down to moral competence of the exchange staff.  Ideally, regulated exchanges would be subject to forced auditing so that it's clear if a security breach or theft has taken place. 

The bottom line is that the status of being a regulated exchange doesn't give any advantage, and, in certain cases, may become a real disadvantage (e.g. insane KYC policies, frozen accounts, and similar shit)

It can give the two advantages that I just mentioned.  There's also the fact that whether we like it or not, governments are not going to allow unregulated exchanges to stay around forever, particularly the US government.  Eventually they'll be accused of aiding a crime such as money laundering (this happened to BTC-e).  That's why Bitfinex has had to be careful dealing with US customers.

Unregulated exchanges are important for people who find their privacy important.  But for some people and for the biggest traders, regulated exchanges can be a better way to go

And what about bitcoins stolen?

How these regulated exchanges can prevent them from being taken by hackers? You said about USD balances but I'm obviously talking about bitcoins, so how are you going to insure them? Regarding auditing, it may be helpful to reveal some shit going on behind the scenes but this in no way prevents this shit from happening in the first place. You can't audit them all day long and round the clock. So getting a license won't prevent exchanges from scamming, just like getting a banking license doesn't prevent banks from going bust or good old running away with their clients' money. As to me, regulated exchanges would give you a false sense of security when, in fact, there is none and cannot be any (given the nature of Bitcoin)

you can ask Coinbase or Gemini how they are insured because they are

Could you provide any proof?

I'm curious to know which insurance company is insuring bitcoins. Given the volatile nature of Bitcoin price, it seems to me that this task would be next to impossible to perform. Apart from that (given the irrevocable nature of Bitcoin transactions), I would also like to know the premiums they demand for insuring Bitcoin holdings. As to me, it would be impossible for Coinbase to exist if they were to fully insure the bitcoins of their clients. In other words, their profits wouldn't be enough to cover insurance expenses

[MAbtc]

you can ask Coinbase or Gemini how they are insured because they are

Could you provide any proof?

I'm curious to know which insurance company is insuring bitcoins. Given the volatile nature of Bitcoin price, it seems to me that this task would be next to impossible to perform. Apart from that (given the irrevocable nature of Bitcoin transactions), I would also like to know the premiums they demand for insuring Bitcoin holdings. As to me, it would be impossible for Coinbase to exist if they were to fully insure the bitcoins of their clients. In other words, their profits wouldn't be enough to cover insurance expenses

Coinbase insures fiat money (e.g. USD has FDIC insurance up to $250,000, like any standard bank account). I imagine Gemini does the same. But I'm not aware of anything that covers cryptocurrencies. I still haven't heard of bitcoin insurance companies; I imagine the premiums at this stage in the game would be astronomical.

The only case that comes to mind... BitPay tried to collect from and later sued the Massachusetts Bay Insurance Company over a phishing incident where the executives got fooled into sending thousands of bitcoins based on fraudulent requests. The lawsuit was dismissed, though.

[deisik]

you can ask Coinbase or Gemini how they are insured because they are

Could you provide any proof?

I'm curious to know which insurance company is insuring bitcoins. Given the volatile nature of Bitcoin price, it seems to me that this task would be next to impossible to perform. Apart from that (given the irrevocable nature of Bitcoin transactions), I would also like to know the premiums they demand for insuring Bitcoin holdings. As to me, it would be impossible for Coinbase to exist if they were to fully insure the bitcoins of their clients. In other words, their profits wouldn't be enough to cover insurance expenses

Coinbase insures fiat money (e.g. USD has FDIC insurance up to $250,000, like any standard bank account). I imagine Gemini does the same. But I'm not aware of anything that covers cryptocurrencies. I still haven't heard of bitcoin insurance companies; I imagine the premiums at this stage in the game would be astronomical.

The only case that comes to mind... BitPay tried to collect from and later sued the Massachusetts Bay Insurance Company over a phishing incident where the executives got fooled into sending thousands of bitcoins based on fraudulent requests. The lawsuit was dismissed, though

I guess this Massachusetts Bay company was a properly regulated business, lol

I'm wondering how many people seriously believe that regulation means anything but you and your operations being thoroughly inspected, scrutinized, and examined by the authorities (after you completely disclose your identity). Not that I think unregulated businesses like Bitcoin exchanges cannot be doing essentially the same but since you don't have to follow some eerie KYC policies, their mileage will certainly vary

[Samarkand]

...

I'm wondering how many people seriously believe that regulation means anything but you and your operations being thoroughly inspected, scrutinized, and examined by the authorities (after you completely disclose your identity). Not that I think unregulated businesses like Bitcoin exchanges cannot be doing essentially the same but since you don't have to follow some eerie KYC policies, their mileage will certainly vary

I wasn´t arguing for the importance of regulation. That is a topic for another day. I´m actually inclined to agree with most of
your statements regarding the disadvantages of regulation for the average exchange user!

However, I was arguing for the importance of regulated exchanges in order to render a Bitcoin ETF possible.
Regulation is a huge headache for users and for the exchanges, but it is an inevitable outcome if the BTC market comes
to maturity. If BTC was mainly traded on regulated exchanges, the SEC (and similar institutions in other countries)
would have a hard time denying another ETF application.

[deisik]

However, I was arguing for the importance of regulated exchanges in order to render a Bitcoin ETF possible.
Regulation is a huge headache for users and for the exchanges, but it is an inevitable outcome if the BTC market comes to maturity. If BTC was mainly traded on regulated exchanges, the SEC (and similar institutions in other countries) would have a hard time denying another ETF application

But I was not replying to your post

The recent discussion was about safety of using regulated exchanges, some dude claimed that bitcoins would be insured at these exchanges but that turned out to be complete crap. In this way, regulated exchanges are in no way safer than unregulated ones, by and large. Regarding Bitcoin ETF approval, I'm more inclined to think that regulated exchanges won't change a lot in this respect, since, as I have already said, Bitcoin will remain the same Bitcoin prone to insane volatility and hacks (and now to splits as well as hardforks), so regulation won't mend matters in this regard

[nrd525]

Any news regarding the Bitfinex hack?  RRT spiked from 7 to 44 cents, now at 25 cents.

[Quickseller]

Any news regarding the Bitfinex hack?  RRT spiked from 7 to 44 cents, now at 25 cents.

Maybe good news for shareholders?

[marcelv3612]

EDIT: SOLVED!

Hello, please help.

Out of nowhere, -11.12 BTC appeared in my Margin wallet on Bitfinex.

I had no losing position of this size. Last position I closed was 0.168 btc short.
Maybe the loss/fees were -$11.12, but BFX charged me -11.12BTC?

Proof: http://imgur.com/a/LgG2k


On my phone Bitfinex app displays every executed order. Within 2 minutes of being robbed, this -11.12 BTC disappeared and equal amount of money was deducted from my BCH holdings to cover for this BTC theft. Account has been halved!

A year ago I had similar problem with Display bug where lending fees were charged in BTC instead USD, luckily Zane Tackett solved this within hours and credited me back. But he does not work for BFX anymore.

Best Regards
Ticket #413485

Please, upvote and share, to help reach BFX and fix this bug
https://www.reddit.com/r/bitfinex/comments/6wyku1/11_btc_put_into_my_margin_wallet/
https://twitter.com/marcelv3612/status/902861255806902272

[krizniq]

I was logged off and now I can't log in...
is anybody experiencing the same?


upload image

[bearproof]

It is being addressed, please check https://bitfinex.statuspage.io/ for updates

[spamator]

Can't log in and sell my coins...http://i66.tinypic.com/20hrnlf.png

[Samarkand]

Has anybody an idea why bfxdata.com shows more than 163 million $ as the total sum of margin funding
while bitfinex.com/stats shows "only" 159 million $?
I had the impression that bfxdata was pretty reliable as a source of Bitfinex related information in the past.

By the way, the increase in margin funding during the current bullrun looks really impressive if you
compare it with historical margin funding levels of 1-2 years ago 
https://www.bfxdata.com/swaphistory/usd

[Quickseller]

Has anybody an idea why bfxdata.com shows more than 163 million $ as the total sum of margin funding
while bitfinex.com/stats shows "only" 159 million $?
I had the impression that bfxdata was pretty reliable as a source of Bitfinex related information in the past.

By the way, the increase in margin funding during the current bullrun looks really impressive if you
compare it with historical margin funding levels of 1-2 years ago 
https://www.bfxdata.com/swaphistory/usd

I just checked and the USD swaps on BFXdata.com matches that as displayed on bitfinex.com/stats

If you are looking at charts on bfxdata I don't think the charts are 100% to the second live for swaps and will only capture data points every time.

[BHSMC]

So as an US resident, I understand that we can't send them FIAT. However, can we still send/withdraw in a form of BTC?

[Quickseller]

So as an US resident, I understand that we can't send them FIAT. However, can we still send/withdraw in a form of BTC?

Yes.

[Sukrim]

So as an US resident, I understand that we can't send them FIAT. However, can we still send/withdraw in a form of BTC?

Seems like you answered your own question there already...

[Serpens66]

So as an US resident, I understand that we can't send them FIAT. However, can we still send/withdraw in a form of BTC?

Yes.

Are you sure?
https://www.bitfinex.com/posts/216
It is not 100% clear in their statement, but they write:

Furthermore, over the next 90 days, we will be discontinuing services to our existing U.S. individual customers. We will be communicating further with affected users on timing and specifics. Our intention is to reduce disruption as much as possible for our U.S. customers.

For me this sounds like US customers won't be able to do anything at bitfinex ?!