[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[TheQuin]

But this is what I'm saying

Well, at least, in respect of the effect on interest rates. In general, the rates are rising in two cases. The first case when there is no supply (let's assume the demand side doesn't change) and this is what you seem to mean, and the second one is when there is demand rising (i.e. when people are looking a shorting opportunity). But in either of these two cases people are expecting the Bitcoin price to tank, right? Since otherwise the supply wouldn't diminish, while the demand wouldn't increase

Yes, we're pretty much on the same page. I'm just not seeing much shorting going on so I think it's mainly lack of supply rather than demand. So rather than thinking that they expect the price to tank, I think they just don't want to be lent out as a precaution on the slight chance that it does, it could take 2 days to get your coins back to be able to react. It's a subtle difference I know but it makes me feel more bullish at the moment.

[1714504617]

1714504617

[deisik]

But this is what I'm saying

Well, at least, in respect of the effect on interest rates. In general, the rates are rising in two cases. The first case when there is no supply (let's assume the demand side doesn't change) and this is what you seem to mean, and the second one is when there is demand rising (i.e. when people are looking a shorting opportunity). But in either of these two cases people are expecting the Bitcoin price to tank, right? Since otherwise the supply wouldn't diminish, while the demand wouldn't increase

Yes, we're pretty much on the same page. I'm just not seeing much shorting going on so I think it's mainly lack of supply rather than demand. So rather than thinking that they expect the price to tank, I think they just don't want to be lent out as a precaution on the slight chance that it does, it could take 2 days to get your coins back to be able to react. It's a subtle difference I know but it makes me feel more bullish at the moment

Today's rates are different that yesterday's

If you follow them, you could notice that they increased for over 3 times during the last 24 hours if we talk about short term rates. Yesterday rates for 2-day loans were around 0.02% daily (I managed to borrow at lower than 0.018%), while today they have already surged to over 0.07% and above, and the offers are quickly filled. As to me, that pretty much means exactly what I say, namely, that people are expecting Bitcoin to tank massively. Indeed, it doesn't mean that it will, but personally, I interpret such change in this way

[TheQuin]

Today's rates are different that yesterday's

If you follow them, you could notice that they increased for over 3 times during the last 24 hours if we talk about short term rates. Yesterday rates for 2-day loans were around 0.02% daily (I managed to borrow at lower than 0.018%), while today they have already surged to over 0.07% and above, and the offers are quickly filled. As to me, that pretty much means exactly what I say, namely, that people are expecting Bitcoin to tank massively. Indeed, it doesn't mean that it will, but personally, I interpret such change in this way

That is what makes a market, two traders looking at the same thing and interpreting it the to mean the opposite. As I said earlier the BTC I have lent out is coin I intend to keep come what may, so if it turns out I'm wrong it doesn't really change the outcome here. I have separate funds that I trade with but I'm just not feeling anything that makes me want to take a short right now. We'll see how it develops over the next 9 or 10 days.

[CHKALOV]

In case of a leisurely bitfinex support:

1) Who remember at what moment bitfinex has sent Bitcoin Cash tokens to user accounts at August 1st?
    What will happen if I close BTCUSD long on Bitfinex right after finding the forkblock number 494784 but early then Bitfinex add B2X tokens?
    (looks like rhetorical question. Indeed I sent this question to support 3 weeks ago)

2) Second case: Why are such low rates on USD lending? Approximately 1% of the costs can be obtained 20% (the cost of B2X token relative to BTC price) (very confusing moment)

[CHKALOV]

What will happen if I close BTCUSD long on Bitfinex right after finding the forkblock number 494784 but early then Bitfinex add B2X tokens?
    (looks like rhetorical question. Indeed I sent this question to support 3 weeks ago)

I mean how fast Bitfinex makes snapshot of blockchain after the fork? Can I close BTCUSD long at the next moment after forkblock? Any ideas?

[TheQuin]

In case of a leisurely bitfinex support:

1) Who remember at what moment bitfinex has sent Bitcoin Cash tokens to user accounts at August 1st?
    What will happen if I close BTCUSD long on Bitfinex right after finding the forkblock number 494784 but early then Bitfinex add B2X tokens?
    (looks like rhetorical question. Indeed I sent this question to support 3 weeks ago)

I mean how fast Bitfinex makes snapshot of blockchain after the fork? Can I close BTCUSD long at the next moment after forkblock? Any ideas?

I can't be exact as I wasn't watching at the precise time of the fork but as nobody else has answered you I'll try and help. I logged in a couple of hours after the fork and the new coin was already available. My understanding is that a snapshot of all balances is done at the exact time the fork block is mined and then it just takes a little while for the database to be updated with each new balance, so yes as I understand it you can close out any position immediately after block 494,784 is confirmed.

As I told someone else on the last page:

Bitfinex abandoned this forum and thread a long time ago. If you need confirmation that what I told you is correct I think you'll have more chance of getting a response on  /r/bitcoin or /r/bitcoinmarkets.

Several people have told me that the best way to get a response from Bitfinex is to hassle them on Reddit.

2) Second case: Why are such low rates on USD lending? Approximately 1% of the costs can be obtained 20% (the cost of B2X token relative to BTC price) (very confusing moment)

This is related to the discussion I was having above with deisik about BTC lending rates going up. We have different views but I get the feeling that people are mostly going flat and waiting so they have funds ready to react if the fork does impact the price.

[deisik]

2) Second case: Why are such low rates on USD lending? Approximately 1% of the costs can be obtained 20% (the cost of B2X token relative to BTC price) (very confusing moment)

This is related to the discussion I was having above with deisik about BTC lending rates going up. We have different views but I get the feeling that people are mostly going flat and waiting so they have funds ready to react if the fork does impact the price

Your logic doesn't hold

We have something like a week before the hard fork if not more, provided it does happen at all which doesn't seem set in stone either (but I may be wrong here). That basically means that you can safely lend your funds for short term loans a few times (in, fact, you can lend them at least 3 times). It simply doesn't make sense to keep your money in your account without action, but you should know that as good as I do. If you expect the price to go down, you should short now instead of waiting or at least already have orders in place. Personally, I shorted at 7399 and have a few orders at higher levels (but these orders don't lock the funds anyway). Otherwise you lend the money out (which I also did). Thus I sold borrowed bitcoins and lent my own ones (with a positive rates spread). Now I can sit and wait patiently for the hard fork to come in while making use of volatility by closing and reopening some of my margin positions. What's bad with that?

[TheQuin]

Your logic doesn't hold

It simply doesn't make sense to keep your money in your account without action, but you should know that as good as I do. If you expect the price to go down, you should short now instead of waiting or at least already have orders in place.

I don't expect the price to go down but I'll be ready to short it if it tells me it wants to go down. After watching the order flow just after 01:00 GMT today I'm now looking for a pullback to get long as I no longer hold out hope of getting any in the 6,000-6,500 range I was watching. You see it the other way and that's fine with me, I'm not here to persuade you to change your view, I'm just saying how I see it.
As for guessing what everyone else is doing, it's just that, guessing by what I see on the tape. That can change very quickly, people change their minds all the time.

[deisik]

Your logic doesn't hold

It simply doesn't make sense to keep your money in your account without action, but you should know that as good as I do. If you expect the price to go down, you should short now instead of waiting or at least already have orders in place.

I don't expect the price to go down but I'll be ready to short it if it tells me it wants to go down. After watching the order flow just after 01:00 GMT today I'm now looking for a pullback to get long as I no longer hold out hope of getting any in the 6,000-6,500 range I was watching. You see it the other way and that's fine with me, I'm not here to persuade you to change your view, I'm just saying how I see it

In fact, I don't see it the other way

I'm just making sure that I won't be caught unprepared if shit massively hits the fan. If there were no B2X tokens coming about (but the tension would be the same for some other reasons), I would likely cash out mostly. I know that I often turn out to be overly pessimistic, and it costs me some profits lost (mind you, these are not the same as real losses), but, on the other hand, I'm pretty safe and secure if the price should crash really hard. Ultimately, it all comes down to your risk tolerance, mine seems to be low while yours is certainly higher

[TheQuin]

Ultimately, it all comes down to your risk tolerance, mine seems to be low while yours is certainly higher

To be fair for full disclosure I bought all my BTC from $20-$200 and have already cashed out a nice profit so it is easy for me to be relaxed. If the price goes to zero I will have only missed an opportunity to make more rather than having lost something I invested. I wish I could be this relaxed when I'm trading fiat markets, crypto does a weird thing to me where I'm able to disassociate it from money.

[deisik]

Ultimately, it all comes down to your risk tolerance, mine seems to be low while yours is certainly higher

To be fair for full disclosure I bought all my BTC from $20-$200 and have already cashed out a nice profit so it is easy for me to be relaxed. If the price goes to zero I will have only missed an opportunity to make more rather than having lost something I invested. I wish I could be this relaxed when I'm trading fiat markets, crypto does a weird thing to me where I'm able to disassociate it from money

It certainly doesn't work this way

For example, I didn't buy any bitcoins at all with my own money (I only reinvested here and there). All my bitcoins as well as other cryptos came to me through various jobs, but this doesn't change anything. I just can't see my profits go down even if I know it for certain that I'm long ago past the break-even point (read it is way below zero). I'd rather "suffer" paper profits unearned than real losses incurred. So, as I said in my previous post, it is all about your risk tolerance, and that seems to be sort of a built-in feature

[mayax]

https://medium.com/@bitfinexed/bitfinex-never-repaid-their-tokens-bitfinex-started-a-ponzi-scheme-86a9291add29     

[Ente]

https://medium.com/@bitfinexed/bitfinex-never-repaid-their-tokens-bitfinex-started-a-ponzi-scheme-86a9291add29     

Certainly an interesting read..

Ente

[TryNinja]

What is going to happen with people who bought B2X future tokens at Bitfinex now that Segwit2x isn't happening anymore?

This guy for example, bought 90 B2X: https://medium.com/@bartjellema/why-i-just-bought-90-b2x-bitcoin-segwit2x-futures-f94d0ee13eb9

[Sukrim]

I guess whatever is stated here:
https://www.bitfinex.com/legal/cst/segwit2x

"4. Settlement—BT2s: In the case of BT2, Segwit2x shall be deemed to exist only if a blockchain has diverged incompatibly from the Incumbent Blockchain. Any settlements of BT2 shall be to B2X. If no Segwit2x blockchain exists pursuant to these T+Cs, BT2 tokens shall be deemed to have a value equal to zero and shall be removed from the platform. All open orders for any BT2 trading pair will be converted into open orders for corresponding B2X trading pairs to ensure pricing continuity and minimize disruption for users trading BTC pairs on leverage prior to the Chain Split Event."

[Rogerdale]

I don't receive verification SMS for withdrawal. Does anyone have the same issue?

[Samarkand]

According to bfxdata active USD Margin Funding has crossed the magic number of 300M USD for the first time:
https://www.bfxdata.com/swaphistory/usd

I´m still not convinced that all claims made regarding the influence of Tether on the current BTC rally are true, but
something definitely seems a bit odd. After all Bitfinex lost their main banking relationships and nevertheless in the last
months active Margin Funding has increased substantially and often coincided with the issuance of new Tethers.
How much real money could actually have arrived at Bitfinex without the ability to deposit money in a bank account
for the majority of their clients? I´m not even mentioning the fact that they recently shut down their operations in the US,
which should have decreased the total amount of Bitfinex clients and the US definitely was not a small market for them.

All of this happened in spite of a claim by Tether that Tether issuance is unlikely to increase by much in the near future. Ironically,
Tether has issued nearly 500M $ since they made that statement.

[Quickseller]

According to bfxdata active USD Margin Funding has crossed the magic number of 300M USD for the first time:
https://www.bfxdata.com/swaphistory/usd

I´m still not convinced that all claims made regarding the influence of Tether on the current BTC rally are true, but
something definitely seems a bit odd. After all Bitfinex lost their main banking relationships and nevertheless in the last
months active Margin Funding has increased substantially and often coincided with the issuance of new Tethers.
How much real money could actually have arrived at Bitfinex without the ability to deposit money in a bank account
for the majority of their clients? I´m not even mentioning the fact that they recently shut down their operations in the US,
which should have decreased the total amount of Bitfinex clients and the US definitely was not a small market for them.

All of this happened in spite of a claim by Tether that Tether issuance is unlikely to increase by much in the near future. Ironically,
Tether has issued nearly 500M $ since they made that statement.

I believe they have created additional corporate entities to receive money through so they have been able to receive (and send) USD via the banking system. I understand they are primarily catering to institutional customers so they may not be willing to deal in USD via the banking system for smaller amounts.

[squatter]

I believe they have created additional corporate entities to receive money through so they have been able to receive (and send) USD via the banking system. I understand they are primarily catering to institutional customers so they may not be willing to deal in USD via the banking system for smaller amounts.

At a glance, that sounds good, but why would institutional investors be trading at Bitfinex? In some jurisdictions, there are fully licensed ETNs. There are CFTC-regulated futures live now on LedgerX, and CME is coming next month. The finance sector seems to have reached consensus that an ETF in the United States isn't far off, either. And GBTC has been trading for years now, and fetches a very hefty premium due to its availability to mainstream investors.

I find it very hard to believe that institutional investors would be pumping tens or hundreds of millions of dollars into an unlicensed/unregulated entity with a very questionable past (the unexplained hack, the debt tokens, etc).

[Quickseller]

I believe they have created additional corporate entities to receive money through so they have been able to receive (and send) USD via the banking system. I understand they are primarily catering to institutional customers so they may not be willing to deal in USD via the banking system for smaller amounts.

At a glance, that sounds good, but why would institutional investors be trading at Bitfinex?

Liquidity.

In some jurisdictions, there are fully licensed ETNs. There are CFTC-regulated futures live now on LedgerX,

These do not have liquidity

And GBTC has been trading for years now,

Lack of liquidity, poor pricing and high fees (to hold the security).