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Author Topic: [OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 723633 times)
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solracx
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November 12, 2013, 05:22:04 PM
 #481

Why would you blame this on Bitfinex. Just keep track of the order book depth. You are responsible for your own positions and risks, not Bitfinex. I have no complaints yet, I moved from Gox to Bitfinex.

I can't trust Gox.   But all of a sudden...  I need to know if Bitfinex can be trusted.

Who are the folks behind this?

We got a lot of folks with Italian like names but the firm is incorporated in Hong Kong.

Do they have the license to operate from Hong Kong?

I was some assurances that they got a legit operation going.

ZenithCoin - Sustainable Scrypt Based Crypto Currency
Spekulatius
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November 12, 2013, 05:34:11 PM
 #482

Why would you blame this on Bitfinex. Just keep track of the order book depth. You are responsible for your own positions and risks, not Bitfinex. I have no complaints yet, I moved from Gox to Bitfinex.

Im not trying to wine here or look for a scape goat for my loss but all bias aside I think this is still insane. It defies all utility this service has over low liquidity exchanges. With unpredictable spikes like this you cant trade on margin not long nor short. Im just sad I have to leave the site because I liked it but this is an impossible situation.
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November 12, 2013, 05:34:20 PM
 #483

Shit man, I had a smoothly going short from 355 USD just now, backed up by this 2500+ BTC ASK wall at Bitstamp that is still standing there untouched when suddenly this happened. I just lost a 1000 USD on a totally sound position and I would have been wiped out if I hadnt put up a Stop order at 360 (that got executed at 369).
Spekulatius

I'm sorry for your loss.
This is precisely why we need stop limit orders. To prevent unnecessary slippage.

I have described in a previous post here how this would work.

EDIT: Had you used a stop limit order, it would have been executed at 360 with a bid at .. say 362 (that would have been filled in a few minutes after the spike) and saved yourself $8/BTC.

Bitrated user: 8fold.
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November 12, 2013, 05:42:55 PM
 #484

Im not trying to wine here or look for a scape goat for my loss but all bias aside I think this is still insane. It defies all utility this service has over low liquidity exchanges. With unpredictable spikes like this you cant trade on margin not long nor short. Im just sad I have to leave the site because I liked it but this is an impossible situation.

I know, it is shit to loose money like this. You would expect all the folks that are using Bitfinix to understand how to use limit orders instead of a market buy like this. But it is not like there are spikes like this every day. And the traders at Bitfinex always seem to be super bullish.
8fold
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November 12, 2013, 05:48:41 PM
 #485

Im not trying to wine here or look for a scape goat for my loss but all bias aside I think this is still insane. It defies all utility this service has over low liquidity exchanges. With unpredictable spikes like this you cant trade on margin not long nor short. Im just sad I have to leave the site because I liked it but this is an impossible situation.

I know, it is shit to loose money like this. You would expect all the folks that are using Bitfinix to understand how to use limit orders instead of a market buy like this. But it is not like there are spikes like this every day. And the traders at Bitfinex always seem to be super bullish.

This is not sure to have been a manually entered market buy. It could have been a triggered stop or a margin call (on a previous short). Or a cascade of margin calls/triggered stops, that shot the price up to 400.

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November 12, 2013, 05:55:46 PM
 #486

This is not sure to have been a manually entered market buy. It could have been a triggered stop or a margin call (on a previous short). Or a cascade of margin calls/triggered stops, that shot the price up to 400.

Yeah, you are right, that is possible  Smiley It would be nice to get some feedback from the Bitfinex team regarding this.
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November 12, 2013, 06:05:58 PM
 #487

Im not trying to wine here or look for a scape goat for my loss but all bias aside I think this is still insane. It defies all utility this service has over low liquidity exchanges. With unpredictable spikes like this you cant trade on margin not long nor short. Im just sad I have to leave the site because I liked it but this is an impossible situation.

I know, it is shit to loose money like this. You would expect all the folks that are using Bitfinix to understand how to use limit orders instead of a market buy like this. But it is not like there are spikes like this every day. And the traders at Bitfinex always seem to be super bullish.

This extraordinary spike was enabled by the lack of BTC Bitfinex has bought on Bitstamp as far as I understand it, thats why this new notice over the ASKs appeared: "Not enough USD reserve on Bitstamp, you cannot buy on Bitstamp at the moment.", so all BUY orders have to fall back onto Bitfinex`s liquidity pool and thats just insufficient  for the volumes traded as demonstrated by this spike. I dont understand why they didnt buy more BTC to ease the liquidity stress. Could someone pls explain  to me how this thing happens in the first place? Are there limits on how much BTC Bitfinex is allowed to buy and transfer on Bitstamp at a time?
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November 12, 2013, 06:13:54 PM
 #488

Im not trying to wine here or look for a scape goat for my loss but all bias aside I think this is still insane. It defies all utility this service has over low liquidity exchanges. With unpredictable spikes like this you cant trade on margin not long nor short. Im just sad I have to leave the site because I liked it but this is an impossible situation.

I know, it is shit to loose money like this. You would expect all the folks that are using Bitfinix to understand how to use limit orders instead of a market buy like this. But it is not like there are spikes like this every day. And the traders at Bitfinex always seem to be super bullish.

This extraordinary spike was enabled by the lack of BTC Bitfinex has bought on Bitstamp as far as I understand it, thats why this new notice over the ASKs appeared: "Not enough USD reserve on Bitstamp, you cannot buy on Bitstamp at the moment.", so all BUY orders have to fall back onto Bitfinex`s liquidity pool and thats just insufficient  for the volumes traded as demonstrated by this spike. I dont understand why they didnt buy more BTC to ease the liquidity stress. Could someone pls explain  to me how this thing happens in the first place? Are there limits on how much BTC Bitfinex is allowed to buy and transfer on Bitstamp at a time?
From what I understand, Bitfinex is not buying any BTC from Bitstamp, and is not transferring BTC to Bitstamp either. They are transferring USD, so that clients can go long with, via routing.

Bitrated user: 8fold.
urwhatuknow
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November 13, 2013, 12:42:34 AM
Last edit: November 13, 2013, 12:58:54 AM by urwhatuknow
 #489

The thing with depositing 0.12 BTC and being credited something else is not the issue that a few fractions of a cent are missing - it's that apparently there must be either a rounding error or something else going wrong somewhere.

i see that a lot at bfx.  always in their favor, which probably influences the priority of fixing the bug. the accounting would be intolerable if there were competition, but bfx is head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of trading function and customer relations.  i just wish it had more credibilty so that i could place more funds there.

There is no bug, there was no rounding.
If you just read Raphael's reply you would know that it was actually "remember remember"'s mistake not to check his history before writing his post.
He actually borrowed some funds and he was charged interests because of it.
I strongly encourage you to read the posts Raphael and me wrote in the past about the various questions you pose, which have been already answered "ad nauseam".

But I'll try to do it once more:

1) We send money to Bitstamp (lots of it) every day.
2) Money is used almost immediately to buy bitcoins.
3) Our account there gets dry and we send money (lots of it) again.

So the ETA is every day: today, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the day after the day after tomorrow........

Oda.krell: You want to buy at a price and avoid slippage when you can only buy on BFX? Ever heard of limit orders?

Sorry for being a little rude guys, but there is a limit to what a man can take.
I believe next time you should think twice (or read) before writing, at least this will avoid making a fool out of yourself.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

@Giancarlo

I'll try to keep this short.

You are, in my opinion, the single most rude point of contact/spokesperson a company could imagine.

Let me summarize our exchange above:

I express my dissatisfaction with

(a) the lack of fiat on the exchange I want to trade on (bitstamp), and

(b) that my order would incur heavy slippage if I would execute it on bitfinex as an alternative, therefore it is not really an alternative ...

... and you tell me to use limit orders?!

You have to be kidding me. This is so wildly unprofessional of you, that I can say that you're so far the first (and only serious) reason making me consider taking my money out of bitfinex.

Well done, sir.

Dear Oda.krell

I understand, having a unicorn as your avatar, you must be used to animals that actually crap jewels ( unicorns actually do that ).
We at Bitfinex unfortunately haven't learnt how to do that yet.
The only thing we know is how to transfer money every day to our Bitstamp account.
We transfer big chunks of money and we do it every day.
Due to the recent cost of Bitcoin it only takes 3k of volume to dry one million usd from our Bitstamp account, so normally in about one hour our Bistamp account is dry again.
Then we have to wait another day for another wire to hit our Bitstamp account.
Not much we can do about it, we still can't crap money, sorry about that.
When the market goes up liquidity is low (that is everybody and his sister is fully invested in BTC) and this is the 238th time I explain this.

My advice to use limit orders wasn't polemical, a limit order is actually the only effective way to avoid slippage and the fact that you call me unprofessional because I gave you an advice doesn't change things.
Use limit order or accept slippage, there is no other way out.

The Bitfinex dynamic is not easy to understand, I realize that.
But to ask for supernatural things (such as to transfer money we don't physically have because our customers still have to wire it to us) it belongs to the world of unicorns, not to our world.

The only thing I understand is that some people on this forum actually think before writing something, while some others just complain and throw false accusations without even realizing how things actually works.
For example blaming the fact that we don't have enough BTC on Bitstamp to justify your loss just shows a complete lack of understanding of the trading mechanisms.
The quantity of BTC on Bitstamp have NOTHING TO DO with a short liquidation.
8fold is actually one of the few that understands things and is always on spot with his comments (kudos to him).

And by the way, I'm the only one having an italian name around here, only me not a bunch.
And the fact that we are in Honk Kong where ANOTHER company closed down doesn't mean anything, does it?
Or shall we say that any company located in Hong Kong or with at least an italian sounding named employee is doomed to go bankrupt?
C'mon guys, give me a break!

Having said that I think I'll leave this thread to Raphael, which is far more patient than me in taking your shit.
I'm probably too old for that, I have to admit.

Have a good day folks, I'm outta here.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team
  










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November 13, 2013, 01:44:07 AM
 #490

Intrest?

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November 13, 2013, 01:47:33 AM
 #491

Intrest?

Already in, I got mine anyway.

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
TwinWinNerD
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November 13, 2013, 01:53:33 AM
 #492

when exactely? it doesnt show up in my history..

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November 13, 2013, 01:58:21 AM
 #493

when exactely? it doesnt show up in my history..

As of right now mine says "about 2 hours ago"

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
TwinWinNerD
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November 13, 2013, 02:04:12 AM
 #494

when exactely? it doesnt show up in my history..

As of right now mine says "about 2 hours ago"

thank you, i contacted support.

But obviously that sucks, because i cant watch my account every single day..

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November 13, 2013, 02:48:45 AM
 #495

lol! honestly as brash as Giancarlo is, I wish more customer service was like his style. It's refreshing and human Smiley
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November 13, 2013, 03:13:47 AM
 #496

So hoping to get a little help from the community.  With lending rates bouncing all over the place I am working on a little bot to automate my "auto-lend" rate.  I prefer to go with the longer term offers to get higher rates at that given time.  I know that I risk rates skyrocketing and not being able to take advantage of them if my USD is out long term, but you can't have it both ways.

Does anyone have any suggestions on strategy?


I was thinking something like find the lowest rate loan that is offered at 60 days or longer AND is for at least $1000 or more, set my auto-lend to 1% less.

If the amount I have to lend out is less then $500 then use the same rule as above but ignore the $1000 criteria (necessary or not??, I'm not sure the average amount a borrower borrows)

If any loans have been sitting un-borrowed for X amount of hours cancel them and have them offered back out at. (assuming that the bot has since adjusted the auto-lend as that table is always moving)

The one problem that I know I will run into is when there are multiple offers at a certain rate.  Reason being is the "maximum" lending days column is actually the minimum days.  So if lets say the front page says there are 2 offers totaling $10,000 offered for 5 days at 100%.  With the rules above my bot would ignore this loan when setting my rate BUT maybe the 5 day offer is only $500 and there is really $9500 offered out at 365 days.  What should I do?  Does anyone know if the API allows you to pull the details of multiple offers?

Otherwise, Raph PLEASE  have the multiple offers offer a drop down menu to see each one individually, or add another column and display the min and max lending term at each rate.

Thanks,

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
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November 13, 2013, 07:09:06 AM
 #497


The interest usually comes out 00:00 GMT

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November 13, 2013, 07:31:47 AM
 #498

This is my second newbie post, please bear with me.

I have looked through all the posts in this thread. Overall, I feel positive about Bitfinex and think that it is credible. What bugs me is that this is a self-moderated thread, so one would expect only positive comments.

As a potential new Bitfinex customer, I have the following questions:

  • Is there a planned date for the Bitfinex Exchange and Trading platform to move from beta phase (testing phase) to production phase? I am quite concerned that a beta system is used for live trading with actual BTC and fiat. Also, the beta period has exceeded one year already?
  • Is there a planned date for the ownership of the Bitfinex Exchange and Trading platform to be transferred from the founder Raphael Nicolle and co-founder Patricia Durand to the company Bitfinex?
  • On 09 June 2013, Giancarlo said that Bitfinex had a pending authorization request to become a currency trader and transmitter in Hong Kong. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=229438.msg2422595#msg2422595 
    Any update on that?
  • Who are the shareholders and directors in the company Bitfinex? What is the paid up capital of the company? As a customer, I need to know who the bosses of the company are and if possible, its financial strength.

I believe other potential new Bitfinex customers would have similar concerns as well. If Bitfinex can address these concerns, it will surely increase the number of new customers.
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November 13, 2013, 08:37:14 AM
 #499


This.

I don't care about other Hong-Kong based companies, but I would operate a lot more in Bitfinex if there were some progress in this area.
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November 13, 2013, 11:41:55 AM
 #500

Hello everyone,

Ok ok so a few words.

First, please understand we are all humans, and please accept our apologies if sometimes words get ahead of our thinking. No harm was ever intended here, we love you, dear users Smiley

Secondly, about USD shortage on Bitstamp, go ahead, ask Bitstamp how much we deposit EVERY day. Yesterday we deposit [a lot] in the morning: gone in 30 minutes. [another lot] arrived in the evening: gone in 5 hours or so.
Today another lot of money will hit.

[Edit: I can't display actual numbers, sorry]

I know this is frustrating, it is for us as well, it's a race against deposits, but what can we do? Maybe limit USD deposits? I don't know. We have a balance to find here. But the real solution is to find people who want to sell on Bitfinex. Miners who use us and profit from higher price than Bitstamp AND fast withdrawals.

Another topic: We have no rounding issue bug in accounting. I take the accusation very seriously because this is a very bad accusation for an exchange. The post from "Remember Remember" was a misunderstanding, not a rounding issue bug (he got charged loans interests after his deposit).

One last thing: a few of us are missing interests today. Don't worry, the interests are here and will be credited tonight along with interests of today. Why does it happen? for the reason below:

We are currently working on upgrading the platform with a whole new servers network. It is scheduled to be ready in 2 days. In the meantime, please accept our apologies for the slowness you can experience. There will also be a small downtime of a few minutes while the platform is switched. The timing will not be announced in advance to avoid market manipulations.


Let me know if you have any more questions, and have all a nice day
Raphael
Bitfinex team
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