[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[urwhatuknow]

Loans offered in USD, gets refunded 2-4 hours later, and i get ZERO interest?
So basically during a rally i can take loans, profit and refund same day ( just before paying out interest) with ZERO fee/interest owed to lender.

How is that for an exploit?

I guess if Borrowers decide to cancel their loans same day, there should be a penalty fee applied. Or better yet, pay 1st day interest along.

Wouldn't that be fair?

Bitfinex i'd really like a reply.

Thanks.

There is no way a swap can be taken for a period longer than 1 hr without generating anything.
Please check again, your offer was surely taken by mistake for less than 1 hour and then given back.

Thanks

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[sleger]

I do agree there should be a penalty for anticipated payoff of loans.

Also are you saying that people can borrow for less than 1 hour and pay nothing ?

[gizmoh]

Loans offered in USD, gets refunded 2-4 hours later, and i get ZERO interest?
So basically during a rally i can take loans, profit and refund same day ( just before paying out interest) with ZERO fee/interest owed to lender.

How is that for an exploit?

I guess if Borrowers decide to cancel their loans same day, there should be a penalty fee applied. Or better yet, pay 1st day interest along.

Wouldn't that be fair?

Bitfinex i'd really like a reply.

Thanks.

There is no way a swap can be taken for a period longer than 1 hr without generating anything.
Please check again, your offer was surely taken by mistake for less than 1 hour and then given back.

Thanks

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Even 1 hour , this is totally Unfair. Basically, Bitfinex and lenders are giving away FREE money for 1 hour during a rally.

Also, a borrower can cancel the loan withing the hour and take a new loan offer at a better rate, without ANY penalty. While the lender isn't allowed the same.

I cannot be certain if it was refunded before the hour, as there is no history for cancelled loans.
But having 50% of loans being refunded within hour(s) is quite telling that many are aware of this flaw, and taking loans freely during a rally, on lenders & bitfinex heads.

[arbitrage001]

Just be glad you are able to lend at current rate.

Wish they allocate more resources to match lending and borrowing.

[urwhatuknow]

Loans offered in USD, gets refunded 2-4 hours later, and i get ZERO interest?
So basically during a rally i can take loans, profit and refund same day ( just before paying out interest) with ZERO fee/interest owed to lender.

How is that for an exploit?

I guess if Borrowers decide to cancel their loans same day, there should be a penalty fee applied. Or better yet, pay 1st day interest along.

Wouldn't that be fair?

Bitfinex i'd really like a reply.

Thanks.

There is no way a swap can be taken for a period longer than 1 hr without generating anything.
Please check again, your offer was surely taken by mistake for less than 1 hour and then given back.

Thanks

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Even 1 hour , this is totally Unfair. Basically, Bitfinex and lenders are giving away FREE money for 1 hour during a rally.

Also, a borrower can cancel the loan withing the hour and take a new loan offer at a better rate, without ANY penalty. While the lender isn't allowed the same.

I cannot be certain if it was refunded before the hour, as there is no history for cancelled loans.
But having 50% of loans being refunded within hour(s) is quite telling that many are aware of this flaw, and taking loans freely during a rally, on lenders & bitfinex heads.

Please before saying it's unfair consider the following:

1) The time at which swaps are calculated every hour is not known by anybody but Raphael.
2) The rate of people that take liquidity and give it back in less than 1 hr is almost nil (basis points, not even 1%).
3) It would be impossible for the system to calculate swaps every minute, an hour is actually a very good approximation.

Nobody is giving away anything for free, but each swap has 2 legs, the liquidity provider and the trader.
We have to think about both of them.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[sleger]

Given points 1) and 2) I feel satisfied with the explanation.
But ideally prepayment penalties would make sense as it would give incentives to lenders to offer longer term loans.

[gizmoh]

Just be glad you are able to lend at current rate.

Wish they allocate more resources to match lending and borrowing.

When borrowers are exploiting actively exploiting a flaw, i should remain quiet?
I think i'm getting 0.99% per day, but those loans are actively used and refunded back within the hour(s).

In 1 hour there can be a rally of 5-10%, or a big crash on a bad news, and I am giving away free money, borrowers are risking my money. And I get NOTHING.

And this is all but a mistake, i've got loans fulfilled and 1 out of 2 is refunded so far. And this is my first day of lending. I suspect bots exploiting this.
I'm stunned why this issue hasn't been raised before! Support and admin has been made aware of this issue.

[unclescrooge]

Dear Bitfinex Customers

The year that has just started will be a crucial one for Bitcoin and all the other cryptocurrencies.
Trading platforms are centralized institutions and need to comply with  different countries' regulations if they want to survive and thrive.
We at Bitfinex decided a long time ago to go for this path, to be fully complaint and to try our best to guarantee the assets of you all. Lawyers are expensive, especially good ones. Also in the last quarter we experienced exponential growth, with the number of both registered and active customers increasing 5 folds.
This of course requires more infrastructure, from a customer support, security, networking, server, etc. point of view.
All this comes of course at an additional cost.

We decided therefore to review our fee ledger as follows:


1)  from 0 to 500 BTC                   :       0.15%
2)  from 500 to 2,000 BTC            :       0.14%
3)  from 2,000 to 5,000 BTC         :       0.13%
4)  from 5000 to 15000 BTC         :       0.12%
5)  from 15,000 to 25,000 BTC     :       0.11%
6)  over 25,000 BTC                        :       0.10%

Numbers are applied on BTC traded in the last 30 days.

Fees for trading Litecoins remain unchanged (0.15%) and the same thing
applies to trades over Bitstamp ( 0.35% ) .

Please notice that we have always been and we remain the best offer in the market, not only for our unique features, but also for our fee level.
No other platform is currently offering our services anywhere close to our
fees.
Some of our competitors allowed free trades in the past ( even though this
was only possible for the BTC/CNY pair) but are now up to a much higher fee
level than ours.
This change will be effective starting from friday the 10th of January at
00:00 GMT.

Last but not least we will also introduce a 1% fee on withdrawals that
require a fast execution (within 24 hrs).
All the others wires will take between 3 and 5 working days and will only
be subject to the current fees ( 10 usd per wire).

Certain of your comprehension I wish you all a happy and prosperous new
year.

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex Team

[gizmoh]

Please before saying it's unfair consider the following:

1) The time at which swaps are calculated every hour is not known by anybody but Raphael.
2) The rate of people that take liquidity and give it back in less than 1 hr is almost nil (basis points, not even 1%).
3) It would be impossible for the system to calculate swaps every minute, an hour is actually a very good approximation.

Nobody is giving away anything for free, but each swap has 2 legs, the liquidity provider and the trader.
We have to think about both of them.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Point 2) im getting around 50% refund. So many borrowers misclicking, i don't think so. Are you actively lending?

As this is my 1st day lending, I fail to understand the swaps calculation towards lenders who are paid daily interest,  however im going to investigate this issue with a trading account.

[TwinWinNerD]

Last but not least we will also introduce a 1% fee on withdrawals that
require a fast execution (within 24 hrs).
All the others wires will take between 3 and 5 working days and will only
be subject to the current fees ( 10 usd per wire).

Does this apply also to BTC and LTC withdrawals?

[urwhatuknow]

Please before saying it's unfair consider the following:

1) The time at which swaps are calculated every hour is not known by anybody but Raphael.
2) The rate of people that take liquidity and give it back in less than 1 hr is almost nil (basis points, not even 1%).
3) It would be impossible for the system to calculate swaps every minute, an hour is actually a very good approximation.

Nobody is giving away anything for free, but each swap has 2 legs, the liquidity provider and the trader.
We have to think about both of them.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Point 2) im getting around 50% refund. So many borrowers misclicking, i don't think so. Are you actively lending?

As this is my 1st day lending, I fail to understand the swaps calculation towards lenders who are get daily interest,  however im going to investigate this issue with a trading account.

You are very talkative indeed to be in your first day.
Perhaps you should first accumulate some experience on how our platform works before posting.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[urwhatuknow]

Last but not least we will also introduce a 1% fee on withdrawals that
require a fast execution (within 24 hrs).
All the others wires will take between 3 and 5 working days and will only
be subject to the current fees ( 10 usd per wire).

Does this apply also to BTC and LTC withdrawals?

wires = cash

[sleger]

Point 2) im getting around 50% refund. So many borrowers misclicking, i don't think so. Are you actively lending?

Lend at lower rates you will get less refunds and less frequently. As Bitfinex said, do it for a few days first

[gizmoh]

Please before saying it's unfair consider the following:

1) The time at which swaps are calculated every hour is not known by anybody but Raphael.
2) The rate of people that take liquidity and give it back in less than 1 hr is almost nil (basis points, not even 1%).
3) It would be impossible for the system to calculate swaps every minute, an hour is actually a very good approximation.

Nobody is giving away anything for free, but each swap has 2 legs, the liquidity provider and the trader.
We have to think about both of them.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Point 2) im getting around 50% refund. So many borrowers misclicking, i don't think so. Are you actively lending?

As this is my 1st day lending, I fail to understand the swaps calculation towards lenders who are get daily interest,  however im going to investigate this issue with a trading account.

You are very talkative indeed to be in your first day.
Perhaps you should first accumulate some experience on how our platform works before posting.

Have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Second time its a stay quiet reply, instead of my issues being answered !
Its my first day, so please explain to me why roughly around half of  loans being fulfilled are refunded within the hour.
How would this be different in the coming days? If the supposed unfair advantage to lender i'm pointing out is real, this trick will continue, as me learning the platform will not change this. Its in my interest that bitfinex works right for both parties, so please don't take this as a critique but rather a suggestion to investigate this issue.

[gizmoh]

Point 2) im getting around 50% refund. So many borrowers misclicking, i don't think so. Are you actively lending?

Lend at lower rates you will get less refunds and less frequently. As Bitfinex said, do it for a few days first

Thanks for the advice sleger.

[arbitrage001]

If you think you are being exploited as a lender, become a borrower and exploit the system.

Free market == free choice.

[bjornw]

@gizmoh

If you think it's all so very unfair, simply don't use bitfinex. You say this is the first day you use bitfinex, you might want to consider to change your tone of voice... you are quite aggressive in the way you reply in this topic and personally I don't think that helps the conversation along. Just a thing to consider before posting...

[nmersulypnem]

Dear Bitfinex Customers

.....

Last but not least we will also introduce a 1% fee on withdrawals that
require a fast execution (within 24 hrs).
All the others wires will take between 3 and 5 working days and will only
be subject to the current fees ( 10 usd per wire).

Certain of your comprehension I wish you all a happy and prosperous new
year.

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex Team

1%?!  Shouldn't it just be a flat rate, similar (but higher) to the regular wire?

[wilfried]

Given points 1) and 2) I feel satisfied with the explanation.
But ideally prepayment penalties would make sense as it would give incentives to lenders to offer longer term loans.

no, thats traditional-banking bullshit, we dont need no "penalties" and such stuff

[Sukrim]

Given points 1) and 2) I feel satisfied with the explanation.
But ideally prepayment penalties would make sense as it would give incentives to lenders to offer longer term loans.

no, thats traditional-banking bullshit, we dont need no "penalties" and such stuff

Seriously, the exploit that it is possible to get loans interest free (or whatever that's now called) is known, it is not THAT hard to find out the time when this is calculated every hour and I also have been bitten by this every once in a while - it seems during a rally borrowers just take whatever is there, wait a bit until new lending offers pop up and then take these, cancelling the existing ones. Unfortunately Bitfinex does NOT seem to do interest calculation once an order completes over its lifetime or since the last midnight payment, whatever is shorter, but rather every hour on all active ones, for whatever weird reason.

This would be only fair, not a penalty to pay lenders for at least e.g. 1 hour or 1 day no matter how short in time a loan was taken since again it is possible to end up with nothing. Especially bad if you don't renew loans or don't use autolend and this just gets cancelled.