[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[dahongfei]

I agree it is not a good practice if the delay of regular withdrawal is intentional.

Currenty CFD swap interest rate at bitfinex is about 0.3% per day.

If regular withdrawal is delayed more than 3 days, then you are in a dilemma: a) pay 1% express withdrawal fees; or b) wait and lose swap income >0.9%

[Sukrim]

Currenty CFD swap interest rate at bitfinex is about 0.3% per day.

Well, it approaches a new low - on average(!) it is close to 0.2%/day. Seems like quite a few larger deposits were simply dumped by lending whales without thought or plan into open offers...

Anyways, it is likely still much faster and (depending on where you are located and how your bank charges are) also cheaper to just buy BTC, transfer them off to a exchange close to you, sell them again there and withdraw your fiat money.

[gog1]

Currenty CFD swap interest rate at bitfinex is about 0.3% per day.

Well, it approaches a new low - on average(!) it is close to 0.2%/day. Seems like quite a few larger deposits were simply dumped by lending whales without thought or plan into open offers...

Anyways, it is likely still much faster and (depending on where you are located and how your bank charges are) also cheaper to just buy BTC, transfer them off to a exchange close to you, sell them again there and withdraw your fiat money.

I think the borrower is a lot more sophisticated and exercised restrain now rather than a whale dump.  The limit on lending period to 30 days doesn't help lenders either.  Wait till this $17 million unwind and the rate will plummet

As per wire, mine shown up as process today, will wait a couple of days to see if it show up in the bank account.

[superbit]

Currenty CFD swap interest rate at bitfinex is about 0.3% per day.

Well, it approaches a new low - on average(!) it is close to 0.2%/day. Seems like quite a few larger deposits were simply dumped by lending whales without thought or plan into open offers...

Anyways, it is likely still much faster and (depending on where you are located and how your bank charges are) also cheaper to just buy BTC, transfer them off to a exchange close to you, sell them again there and withdraw your fiat money.

I think the borrower is a lot more sophisticated and exercised restrain now rather than a whale dump.  The limit on lending period to 30 days doesn't help lenders either.  Wait till this $17 million unwind and the rate will plummet

As per wire, mine shown up as process today, will wait a couple of days to see if it show up in the bank account.

What makes you think this 17 million lent out will unwind and not continue to grow as more users join the site and get into leveraged training.  Historically (granted a small sample size) rates have stayed fairly steady and new funds have found their way into the site as new users join to borrow money.

There is a point where money comes out and it's simply not worth keeping fiat on the site for 20 - 30%

[wilfried]

https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/fees

isnt ist a bit confusing to state "for the traded pair" - you probably mean that for both of the trades of the pair the fee is 0,15%, but one
could understand it as "fee is only due for a pair, not per trade"?

Code:

0 or more traded in the last 30 days (for the traded pair) 0.15% 

it sounded pretty intuitive to us, but anyway feel free to come up with any suggestion that will make it "misunderstanding-proof" and we'll take it into consideration

thanks a lot and have a good day

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

hy, maybe
"per Trade"
or
"per Trade of a Currency Pair"

[Sukrim]

I'm rather waiting until they finally re-enable 4:1 leverage (or higher... 5:1 or even 8:1 or 10:1 should be possible imho.) - this should increase demand for USD a lot, we're running in low burner mode already for some time now for no apparent (to me) reason other than the infrastructure changes.

[mooncake]

I'm rather waiting until they finally re-enable 4:1 leverage (or higher... 5:1 or even 8:1 or 10:1 should be possible imho.) - this should increase demand for USD a lot, we're running in low burner mode already for some time now for no apparent (to me) reason other than the infrastructure changes.

Low burner mode - Do you mean the BTC market or the BFX USD swap market?
Infrastructure changes - Do you mean the recent system interface changes in BFX?

Anyway, I would think the swap rate is low now because the BTC market has been flat for like the past 3 weeks.

[Sukrim]

No, I mean that 2.5:1 leverage is not that much more than no leverage at all if you consider that you have to pay swap too, so traders are probably more cautious. the smaller volatility of course also might be a factor.

I mean the hardware upgrades that are supposedly happening/being finished in January behind the scenes.

[dahongfei]

The low 2.5:1 leverage is intended to protect lender's money. If the leverage changes to 8:1, lender will have to bear a much greater risk provided bitfinex's current liquidity level. I'll stop lending if it goes to anything close to 8:1.

[nrd525]

Rates should be on a long-term downward trend.  I wouldn't be surprised if they fell to an average of 0.08%/day (or 30% apr) for six months.  Especially if bitfinex shows more signs of having all the paperwork in order and bitcoin volatility declines.   Now if we hit a longterm bear market, then rates are headed to near zero .

[Timetwister]

The low 2.5:1 leverage is intended to protect lender's money. If the leverage changes to 8:1, lender will have to bear a much greater risk provided bitfinex's current liquidity level. I'll stop lending if it goes to anything close to 8:1.

Me too, Bitcoin is too volatile to allow that kind of leverage, margin calls would happen very often.

[Sukrim]

The low 2.5:1 leverage is intended to protect lender's money. If the leverage changes to 8:1, lender will have to bear a much greater risk provided bitfinex's current liquidity level. I'll stop lending if it goes to anything close to 8:1.

I'd offer my money (or parts of it) for 8:1 lending if I could define the maximum leverage as a parameter like the lending time frame or rate. I'd charge a premium for that of course.

I probably can still do 4:1 leverage by the way (haven't tried, not that interesting market situation imho atm.) on my account.

edit: And just while I'm ranting, someone took my 0.4% offer!
Also another shoutout to my affiliees (or whatever you'd call people I refered with the link in my sig) - some of you guys have some truly crazy volume! Go for it and I hope you made some phat profits!

[accord01]

I do believe the rate @ btsp is a lil high.  But the bfx rate is awesome.  

Also having margin min @ 12.5 or 10 would be even cooler.

[gog1]

my wire completed and money's in the bank.  3 days as stated.

Now that BTC prices is back over 800 but the margin loan outstanding is down to 16.25 million.  People are lightening up as the price rises.  The rally will probably see some headwind as margin loan unwinds and flash return rate is down below 0.2

That's just my 2 cents.

[accord01]

my wire completed and money's in the bank.  3 days as stated.

Now that BTC prices is back over 800 but the margin loan outstanding is down to 16.25 million.  People are lightening up as the price rises.  The rally will probably see some headwind as margin loan unwinds and flash return rate is down below 0.2

That's just my 2 cents.

Interesting.  That's good to hear that bfx is on top of wires!!!

Are you saying that bfx has the power to move a market because they operate like 40-55% of btsp's trades?

[0x3d]

my wire completed and money's in the bank.  3 days as stated.

Now that BTC prices is back over 800 but the margin loan outstanding is down to 16.25 million.  People are lightening up as the price rises.  The rally will probably see some headwind as margin loan unwinds and flash return rate is down below 0.2

That's just my 2 cents.

Interesting.  That's good to hear that bfx is on top of wires!!!

Are you saying that bfx has the power to move a market because they operate like 40-55% of btsp's trades?

I'll just add my thumbs up to this: Did 3 wire withdrawals from BFX so far, the last one was a week ago (after they introduced the "pay me faster"-feature which I didn't make use of) and I even mistyped my account # which I corrected minutes later by contacting their support and even that wire arrived within less than 24hrs! In fact they all arrived between 15 and 22 hours after submitting the form which is kind of amazing.

But: I'm not too impressed that you always have to re-enter your entire account details (like BIC and the bank's address and whatnot) every time you want to wire-withdraw some money. It would be really nice to have a feature like "Bank management" in there somewhere.

[gog1]

I really think they should take away the flash return rate concept.  Every lending offer / borrowing request should be either limit order or market order (ie. hitting up the lowest available lending offer or highest borrowing request).

[Arthur Randolph]

a

I really think they should take away the flash return rate concept.  Every lending offer / borrowing request should be either limit order or market order (ie. hitting up the lowest available lending offer or highest borrowing request).

The FRR does help dampen the sometimes crazy swings of the best interest rate as provides a form of mid-market rate for the lazy.
The situation is a bit asymmetric though.
In an up market, traders are at an advantage because their default settings is to pick either fixed or variable rates, whichever is lower, and they can sometimes snag some FRR offers when the rate lags. On the other hand, lenders have to decide whether they want to (auto-)loan at fixed or variable rate, but not both.
This causes the situation where offers are either taken at a suboptimal rate or not at all (since there's a better offer on the other side of the FRR/Fixed choice).
It would greatly help if FRR had some other form of incentive, such as lower fees or liquidity guarantees.

[gog1]

a

I really think they should take away the flash return rate concept.  Every lending offer / borrowing request should be either limit order or market order (ie. hitting up the lowest available lending offer or highest borrowing request).

The FRR does help dampen the sometimes crazy swings of the best interest rate as provides a form of mid-market rate for the lazy.
The situation is a bit asymmetric though.
In an up market, traders are at an advantage because their default settings is to pick either fixed or variable rates, whichever is lower, and they can sometimes snag some FRR offers when the rate lags. On the other hand, lenders have to decide whether they want to (auto-)loan at fixed or variable rate, but not both.
This causes the situation where offers are either taken at a suboptimal rate or not at all (since there's a better offer on the other side of the FRR/Fixed choice).
It would greatly help if FRR had some other form of incentive, such as lower fees or liquidity guarantees.

Let me be cynical and think from platform perspective first, having all these lending offer / borrowing request not filled is sub-optimal for bitfinex it self in lost commission.  Having wild swing in interest rate is actually not a big problem for bitfinex, it spurs more borrower to adjust to try to take advantage of low interest rate, ie. more commission for them.  I just see the game tilted too much toward the borrower side, lately, we see a couple of hundred thousands pop up on the FRR on the borrowing side and interest rate keep getting manipulated down despite margin loan at or near all time high.  The FRR, to be honest, doesn't really offer much for the lender, you will not get neither a guarantee rate (assuming the order is filled) nor the optimal rate.

Beside, most asset market (stock, bond, etc.) order book is all limit or market order base.  This FRR really skews thing completely.

[bahamapascal]

Hi every one!
I am currently looking to get my money out of Mtgox and was looking at bitfinex for that purpose.
How trust worthy do you guys think is bitfinex? Are there any information available about them, is it just a one man operation or do they have employees/support agents, etz. ?
If you could let me know your opinion and experience, I would greatly appreciate it.