[OFFICIAL]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[urwhatuknow]

The trading has been restored now.
We halted it because forced liquidations of leveraged positions quickly depleted our big reserves of BTC on Bitstamp and when this happens the price tends to become too volatile.
We had to wait for the coins become available on Bitstamp before we resumed trading.

Thanks a lot for your understanding

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Does that mean liquidations have been reversed and lenders money is safe?

Lenders money is safe.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[unclescrooge]

Everyone,

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation by letting price calm down a bit.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

I have a question about the new way that Bitfinex integrates the Bitstamp order book.  Raphael has said that now Bitstamp orders are augmented by between 0.15% and 0.25% before being displayed on the Bitfinex order book.  However, take a look at these images of Bitstamp and Bitfinex order books taken at the same time earlier today:

Bitstamp's order book - http://imgur.com/D8TqTks
Bitfinex's order book - http://imgur.com/AKh049t

Based on what Raphael said about price augmentation, the lowest ask on Bitfinex's order book should be no greater than $706.91 ($705.15*1.0025) - the lowest displayed is $709.41. And the highest bid should be no lower than $706.06 ($705*1.0015) - the highest displayed is $704.34. So either what Raphael told us about integration of the two order books is wrong, or the process is error-prone. And I have observed this phenomenon very often. This, to me, is very troubling.  Does anybody have an explanation for this?

Raphael and Giancarlo - I know you're both probably very busy right now with everything going on.  But when you get a second, could you please address this issue I raised?  I think it's very important, and a cause of confusion for many people.  Thanks!

Hello,

Please send an email to support@bitfinex.com and we'll take care of it (if already done it will be tajen care of)

Thank you for your comprehension
Raphael

[russokai]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility?   That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable.  You guys need a better system with your site.

[Baalinooo]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

This event (Mt. Gox news) was anticipated since late Friday Asia time. Did you not have time to prepare for it, or just not paying attention?

We don't have a crystal ball.
If you have one please send us your CV and we will employ you.
Prepare for what?
How many bitcoins is enough?
20k, 30k?
Are just blowing hot air out of your mouth or you forgot to switch your brain on?

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

With all due respect, I started trading a month ago and even I knew there would be a crash if Mt.Gox update announcement was bad news.

[urwhatuknow]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

This event (Mt. Gox news) was anticipated since late Friday Asia time. Did you not have time to prepare for it, or just not paying attention?

We don't have a crystal ball.
If you have one please send us your CV and we will employ you.
Prepare for what?
How many bitcoins is enough?
Are just blowing hot air out of your mouth or you forgot to switch your brain on?

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

Wow, the author of "how to win friends and influence people" just showed up on the forums. Can we have an autograph?

It's difficult to keep calm with idiots like you.

[russokai]

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down?  It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

BTC-e did not go down either.

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

[urwhatuknow]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility?   That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable.  You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

[ledmaniak]

Bitfinex,

When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..

[wilfried]

wow according to the market statistics about USD $ 6,000,000,-- less active swaps than this morning, there must have been some margin calls

[russokai]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility?   That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable.  You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

The suggestion is to FIX YOUR WEBSITE.  Hire some people who are smart enough to do it if you are not.

Bitstamp DID NOT go down

BTC-E DID NOT go down

Bitfinex did go down.... not tough to figure out who is incompetent here.

[BitBits]

Giancarlo, you do not need to be THAT rude. Your emotions are understood, but still...

[hyphymikey]

Bitfinex,

When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..

+1

And how exactly would lenders lose money from the situation you "halted"?

[unclescrooge]

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down?  It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

[DeaDTerra]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility?   That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable.  You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

I have an suggestion
Switch to a market maker fee structure on BitFinex and increase the Bitstamp fee/decrease the Bitfinex fee.
This should encourage users to use BitFinex and limit orders instead of only using Bitstamp liquidity and market orders.
This should reduce the friction in your cash flow management and you should become less dependent on Bitstamp.

Just a suggestion
//DeaDTerra

[alpha492]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility?   That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable.  You guys need a better system with your site.

Feel free to post any suggestion.
We will pay you if they make sense.
Otherwise just stop talking nonsense.

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

As I said in my post, reversing trades in the only viable option for your exchange at this point.  I think how you handle this could have serious ramifications, and I know if a reasonable conclusion can't be reached in this instance I probably won't be trading on your exchange in the future.

Thanks and good luck

[Hunyadi]

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down?  It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

IMO right decision.

[unclescrooge]

Bitfinex,

When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..

+1

And how exactly would lenders lose money from the situation you "halted"?

It all depends on the price: if the first bid to liquidate a positon opened at 700 is 100 USD/BTC or less, there is just not enough money for the trader to pay back the lenders = money lost.

Bitstamp liquidity add some depth to the liquidation process, thus why we NEED it.

Hope it explains things

Raphael

[DeaDTerra]

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down?  It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

I agree, look at any serious exchange in the world.
They stop/lock the market all the time to keep it from going bonkers especially when something is not working as intended.
//DeaDTerra

[Indamuck]

Dear users,

The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.

We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.

have a good day
Raphael

This event (Mt. Gox news) was anticipated since late Friday Asia time. Did you not have time to prepare for it, or just not paying attention?

We don't have a crystal ball.
If you have one please send us your CV and we will employ you.
Prepare for what?
How many bitcoins is enough?
20k, 30k?
Are just blowing hot air out of your mouth or you forgot to switch your brain on?

Giancarlo
Bitfinex Team

You cannot afford me. Let it be ... before you embarrass yourself further. (Someone with some sense keep this guy away from the keyboards. Lol ....)

[wilfried]

I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).

So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.

One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;

THanks for your comprehension
Raphael

So why didn't Bitstamp go down?  It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning).

It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.

Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything.

On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money

Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market).

Thank you
Raphael

hy, thats ok, but didnt giancarlo some days ago did say that you only will halt, if htere was a glitch/manipulation, but not if a market crash happens? same thing imho happened with the bistamp-fee-integration, first you anncounced it, then still 0.35% fees were deducted from trades. that seems a bit inconsistent