urwhatuknow
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 446
Merit: 250
CAT.EX Exchange
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February 10, 2014, 12:25:19 PM |
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The trading has been restored now. We halted it because forced liquidations of leveraged positions quickly depleted our big reserves of BTC on Bitstamp and when this happens the price tends to become too volatile. We had to wait for the coins become available on Bitstamp before we resumed trading.
Thanks a lot for your understanding
Giancarlo Bitfinex Team
Does that mean liquidations have been reversed and lenders money is safe? Lenders money is safe. Giancarlo Bitfinex Team
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unclescrooge (OP)
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February 10, 2014, 12:25:41 PM |
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Everyone, I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already). So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation by letting price calm down a bit. One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't; THanks for your comprehension Raphael I have a question about the new way that Bitfinex integrates the Bitstamp order book. Raphael has said that now Bitstamp orders are augmented by between 0.15% and 0.25% before being displayed on the Bitfinex order book. However, take a look at these images of Bitstamp and Bitfinex order books taken at the same time earlier today: Bitstamp's order book - http://imgur.com/D8TqTksBitfinex's order book - http://imgur.com/AKh049tBased on what Raphael said about price augmentation, the lowest ask on Bitfinex's order book should be no greater than $706.91 ($705.15*1.0025) - the lowest displayed is $709.41. And the highest bid should be no lower than $706.06 ($705*1.0015) - the highest displayed is $704.34. So either what Raphael told us about integration of the two order books is wrong, or the process is error-prone. And I have observed this phenomenon very often. This, to me, is very troubling. Does anybody have an explanation for this? Raphael and Giancarlo - I know you're both probably very busy right now with everything going on. But when you get a second, could you please address this issue I raised? I think it's very important, and a cause of confusion for many people. Thanks! Hello, Please send an email to support@bitfinex.com and we'll take care of it (if already done it will be tajen care of) Thank you for your comprehension Raphael
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russokai
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February 10, 2014, 12:25:50 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site.
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Baalinooo
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 3
Merit: 0
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February 10, 2014, 12:26:11 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
This event (Mt. Gox news) was anticipated since late Friday Asia time. Did you not have time to prepare for it, or just not paying attention? We don't have a crystal ball. If you have one please send us your CV and we will employ you. Prepare for what? How many bitcoins is enough? 20k, 30k? Are just blowing hot air out of your mouth or you forgot to switch your brain on? Giancarlo Bitfinex Team With all due respect, I started trading a month ago and even I knew there would be a crash if Mt.Gox update announcement was bad news.
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urwhatuknow
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 446
Merit: 250
CAT.EX Exchange
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February 10, 2014, 12:26:28 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
This event (Mt. Gox news) was anticipated since late Friday Asia time. Did you not have time to prepare for it, or just not paying attention? We don't have a crystal ball. If you have one please send us your CV and we will employ you. Prepare for what? How many bitcoins is enough? Are just blowing hot air out of your mouth or you forgot to switch your brain on? Giancarlo Bitfinex Team Wow, the author of "how to win friends and influence people" just showed up on the forums. Can we have an autograph? It's difficult to keep calm with idiots like you.
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russokai
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February 10, 2014, 12:27:47 PM |
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I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).
So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.
One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;
THanks for your comprehension Raphael
So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning). BTC-e did not go down either. It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature.
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urwhatuknow
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 446
Merit: 250
CAT.EX Exchange
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February 10, 2014, 12:28:19 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site. Feel free to post any suggestion. We will pay you if they make sense. Otherwise just stop talking nonsense. Giancarlo Bitfinex Team
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ledmaniak
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February 10, 2014, 12:29:18 PM |
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Bitfinex,
When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..
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Bitcoin: 1Cxi8BLvScSm1mW6kjb5MNeJZPrvAiYL6B Litecoin: LLmjtrrq1ZeD51NSUJ8VanuQduW8Ma3jrs
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wilfried
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 288
Merit: 250
ManualMiner
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February 10, 2014, 12:30:10 PM |
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wow according to the market statistics about USD $ 6,000,000,-- less active swaps than this morning, there must have been some margin calls
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russokai
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February 10, 2014, 12:30:18 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site. Feel free to post any suggestion. We will pay you if they make sense. Otherwise just stop talking nonsense. Giancarlo Bitfinex Team The suggestion is to FIX YOUR WEBSITE. Hire some people who are smart enough to do it if you are not. Bitstamp DID NOT go down BTC-E DID NOT go down Bitfinex did go down.... not tough to figure out who is incompetent here.
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BitBits
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February 10, 2014, 12:31:14 PM |
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Giancarlo, you do not need to be THAT rude. Your emotions are understood, but still...
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Empty
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hyphymikey
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February 10, 2014, 12:31:32 PM |
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Bitfinex,
When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..
+1 And how exactly would lenders lose money from the situation you "halted"?
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unclescrooge (OP)
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February 10, 2014, 12:31:39 PM |
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I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).
So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.
One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;
THanks for your comprehension Raphael
So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning). It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature. Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything. On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market). Thank you Raphael
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DeaDTerra
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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February 10, 2014, 12:33:56 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site. Feel free to post any suggestion. We will pay you if they make sense. Otherwise just stop talking nonsense. Giancarlo Bitfinex Team I have an suggestion Switch to a market maker fee structure on BitFinex and increase the Bitstamp fee/decrease the Bitfinex fee. This should encourage users to use BitFinex and limit orders instead of only using Bitstamp liquidity and market orders. This should reduce the friction in your cash flow management and you should become less dependent on Bitstamp. Just a suggestion //DeaDTerra
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alpha492
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February 10, 2014, 12:34:01 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
You do know that this is going to happen over and over and over again when the market has some volatility? That outtage just cost me $8000 in profits and I'm sure many lost even more...just not acceptable. You guys need a better system with your site. Feel free to post any suggestion. We will pay you if they make sense. Otherwise just stop talking nonsense. Giancarlo Bitfinex Team As I said in my post, reversing trades in the only viable option for your exchange at this point. I think how you handle this could have serious ramifications, and I know if a reasonable conclusion can't be reached in this instance I probably won't be trading on your exchange in the future. Thanks and good luck
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Hunyadi
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1281
Merit: 1000
☑ ♟ ☐ ♚
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February 10, 2014, 12:34:43 PM |
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I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).
So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.
One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;
THanks for your comprehension Raphael
So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning). It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature. Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything. On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market). Thank you Raphael IMO right decision.
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▂▃▅▇█▓▒░B**-Cultist░▒▓█▇▅▃▂
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unclescrooge (OP)
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February 10, 2014, 12:35:06 PM |
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Bitfinex,
When closing a short, I would not expect you need bitcoins for that because you are buying them back. Why did trading for the short positions not continue? No fiat money available at bitstamp/bfx? From what I read, most people lost because the couldn't close their short..
+1 And how exactly would lenders lose money from the situation you "halted"? It all depends on the price: if the first bid to liquidate a positon opened at 700 is 100 USD/BTC or less, there is just not enough money for the trader to pay back the lenders = money lost. Bitstamp liquidity add some depth to the liquidation process, thus why we NEED it. Hope it explains things Raphael
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DeaDTerra
Donator
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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February 10, 2014, 12:35:09 PM |
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I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).
So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.
One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;
THanks for your comprehension Raphael
So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning). It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature. Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything. On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market). Thank you Raphael I agree, look at any serious exchange in the world. They stop/lock the market all the time to keep it from going bonkers especially when something is not working as intended. //DeaDTerra
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Indamuck
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February 10, 2014, 12:35:33 PM |
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Dear users,
The trading engine is currently stopped due to the recent volatility and the fact that we exhausted our funds on Bitstamp in this critical moment.
We are waiting for new deposit to hit our Bitstamp account, after which we will resume the trades.
have a good day Raphael
This event (Mt. Gox news) was anticipated since late Friday Asia time. Did you not have time to prepare for it, or just not paying attention? We don't have a crystal ball. If you have one please send us your CV and we will employ you. Prepare for what? How many bitcoins is enough? 20k, 30k? Are just blowing hot air out of your mouth or you forgot to switch your brain on? Giancarlo Bitfinex Team You cannot afford me. Let it be ... before you embarrass yourself further. (Someone with some sense keep this guy away from the keyboards. Lol ....)
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wilfried
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 288
Merit: 250
ManualMiner
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February 10, 2014, 12:36:04 PM |
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I'd just like to point out that if we did not have stopped the trading engine, the cascading effect of liquidations would have been terrible (just look at the charts already).
So we DID make the right choice in halting the trading engine to avoid this situation.
One day the Bitcoin market will become mature enough to support this level of volume, right now it isn't;
THanks for your comprehension Raphael
So why didn't Bitstamp go down? It was up the entire time that you "halted" trading (without warning). It's not the Bitcoin market that isn't "mature" enough...it is Bitfinex that is immature. Bitstamp is not a margin trading website, they don't have liquidations /margin calls, and don't care if the price goes to 0 because they don't lose anything. On Bitfinex on the other hand, there are leveraged positions, and liquidations triggered can and have a cascading effect on a very volatile market, and if there is not enough volume to support it, we CAN take the price to 0 and lose millions of lenders money Halting the trading engine is maybe annoying, but it's the right thing to do (and I must say it happens on all sort of market). Thank you Raphael hy, thats ok, but didnt giancarlo some days ago did say that you only will halt, if htere was a glitch/manipulation, but not if a market crash happens? same thing imho happened with the bistamp-fee-integration, first you anncounced it, then still 0.35% fees were deducted from trades. that seems a bit inconsistent
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