Recieved 50GH BFL Single Today!

[Fiyasko]

People should be concerned about how long thier BFL device will actually work for before blowing out, They were rushed out, Right? They could all be little timebombs

[MrThePlague]

As others have pointed out, I think getting refunded in USD equivalent is fair IMO, because if BTC was worth $1 today, I don't think a single person would complain about getting a USD refund, and demand they are paid back in worthless BTC that's worth a fraction of the USD it was at the time of purchase. There are numerous sources that accept BTC, if it becomes a game of 'refund me my BTC if it goes up, and USD if it goes down', I can see why business are hesitant on accepting Bitcoin at their business. You've virtually made it a lose/lose for businesses.

Also, there are numerous examples of comparing BTC to Yen, Euro, USD, etc.. I think the prime difference in these cases is all of those are federally recognized as currency by governments and world bodies. BTC is not. Trust me, I want BTC to succeed as much as anyone here does, and I strongly believe digital currency is the future. However, because a group of people on the internet say Bitcoin is a mainstream currency, the courts (as far as I know) say differently. Maybe years down the road this will change, but I can't see a single judge seeing it this way as of now.

[erk]

People should be concerned about how long thier BFL device will actually work for before blowing out, They were rushed out, Right? They could all be little timebombs

They have a warranty you know, or don't you read those things?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showwiki.php?title=FAQ:What+is+the+warranty+period+on+your+devices

Also, there are numerous examples of comparing BTC to Yen, Euro, USD, etc.. I think the prime difference in these cases is all of those are federally recognized as currency by governments and world bodies. BTC is not. Trust me, I want BTC to succeed as much as anyone here does, and I strongly believe digital currency is the future. However, because a group of people on the internet say Bitcoin is a mainstream currency, the courts (as far as I know) say differently. Maybe years down the road this will change, but I can't see a single judge seeing it this way as of now.

Bitcoin is not a currency in a general sense, it is a journal of past transactions in the public record. The block chain will not contain a record of BFL receiving your Bitcoins, as Bitpay received the Bitcoins. Good luck trying that one out on a judge, not that it would ever get that far, as to my knowledge BFL have not refused a refund of a pre-order to date, if they have nobody has screamed about it here.

[Mikeologist]

From the auction:

For every 1K under 25K on the final sales price will cause a delay in shipping by one week. Please do not bid if you have a problem with this!

Creative, but really?

I'm not sure you can actually do that and not violate EBAY ToS...

I guess it did, the item is gone.
I was going to buy it for whatever it took.

[k9quaint]

As others have pointed out, I think getting refunded in USD equivalent is fair IMO, because if BTC was worth $1 today, I don't think a single person would complain about getting a USD refund, and demand they are paid back in worthless BTC that's worth a fraction of the USD it was at the time of purchase. There are numerous sources that accept BTC, if it becomes a game of 'refund me my BTC if it goes up, and USD if it goes down', I can see why business are hesitant on accepting Bitcoin at their business. You've virtually made it a lose/lose for businesses.

Most businesses would hold BTC until they shipped the product. It is only too risky for companies like BFL that don't ship for months on end.

Also, there are numerous examples of comparing BTC to Yen, Euro, USD, etc.. I think the prime difference in these cases is all of those are federally recognized as currency by governments and world bodies. BTC is not. Trust me, I want BTC to succeed as much as anyone here does, and I strongly believe digital currency is the future. However, because a group of people on the internet say Bitcoin is a mainstream currency, the courts (as far as I know) say differently. Maybe years down the road this will change, but I can't see a single judge seeing it this way as of now.

Bitcoin is not a currency in a general sense, it is a journal of past transactions in the public record. The block chain will not contain a record of BFL receiving your Bitcoins, as Bitpay received the Bitcoins. Good luck trying that one out on a judge, not that it would ever get that far, as to my knowledge BFL have not refused a refund of a pre-order to date, if they have nobody has screamed about it here.

Actually, FINCen just issued guidance on this and they do call it a currency, but Bitcoin has not yet been tested in courts. Other virtual currencies have been tested (airline miles, facebook credits, etc) and it is not too much of a stretch to establish them as precedent.
http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

[Korbman]

I guess it did, the item is gone.
I was going to buy it for whatever it took.

See Page 20

Also..I love how this thread has turned from going over a Single 50GH/s device into a massive (multipage) discussion about how some users have no idea how BitPay and Bitcoin-to-USD conversions work...as if they can't fathom that currency conversions actually exist. It's 100% clear that it's trolling at this point ..it's highly unlikely anyone can actually be this ignorant whilst partaking in Bitcoin.

[MrThePlague]

Most businesses would hold BTC until they shipped the product. It is only too risky for companies like BFL that don't ship for months on end.

True. But there are numerous companies that offer 30, even 45 days refund period once you've received a product, do you really expect businesses to wait up to a full 45 days AFTER you receive a product to be paid?

[erk]

I guess it did, the item is gone.
I was going to buy it for whatever it took.

See Page 20

Also..I love how this thread has turned from going over a Single 50GH/s device into a massive (multipage) discussion about how some users have no idea how BitPay and Bitcoin-to-USD conversions work...as if they can't fathom that currency conversions actually exist. It's 100% clear that it's trolling at this point ..it's highly unlikely anyone can actually be this ignorant whilst partaking in Bitcoin.

The trolling started at post #54 and didn't stop. If I was a mod the thread would have been closed not long after that.

[k9quaint]

I guess it did, the item is gone.
I was going to buy it for whatever it took.

See Page 20

Also..I love how this thread has turned from going over a Single 50GH/s device into a massive (multipage) discussion about how some users have no idea how BitPay and Bitcoin-to-USD conversions work...as if they can't fathom that currency conversions actually exist. It's 100% clear that it's trolling at this point ..it's highly unlikely anyone can actually be this ignorant whilst partaking in Bitcoin.

At this point the thread is filled with people (like you) who have not read it, as this was posted earlier to exactly the same comment.
https://bitpay.com/faq
Merchants choosing to keep the bitcoins can be anywhere in the world.

Merchants choose what Bitpay will do with the BTC. Merchants offering to escrow the BTC in anticipation of a refund would choose to receive the BTC instead of converting it to one of 30 different currencies. Merchants choosing to spend the BTC (which BFL promised not to until they shipped) would convert it to USD.

Maybe Korbman will read this post and avoid further embarrassment by posting blatant misinformation. Extra irony that he could refer to earlier in the thread, but not know this.

The trolling started at post #54 and didn't stop. If I was a mod the thread would have been closed not long after that.

I love how Erk never actually refutes the evidence against him. He just says "troll" and "smear" a lot. Kind of like a weaksauce version of Josh's LiarDouche Powder (TM).

[josiasrdz]

the problem with asics is that we don't have options (or power), asicminer, avalon and bfl have all the power...asicminer is selling overpriced miners, avalon is "testing" or "burning in" the asics and bfl is drunk with power.
and there is nothing we can do about it...other than wait for more companies (bitfury, kncminer) to get in the game

[erk]

the problem with asics is that we don't have options (or power), asicminer, avalon and bfl have all the power...asicminer is selling overpriced miners, avalon is "testing" or "burning in" the asics and bfl is drunk with power.
and there is nothing we can do about it...other than wait for more companies (bitfury, kncminer) to get in the game

Sounds pretty normal for most new industries. I recall paying $1,800+ for my first DVD player from Sony, and over $8,800 for my first mobile analog phone.

[Nightowlace]

the problem with asics is that we don't have options (or power), asicminer, avalon and bfl have all the power...asicminer is selling overpriced miners, avalon is "testing" or "burning in" the asics and bfl is drunk with power.
and there is nothing we can do about it...other than wait for more companies (bitfury, kncminer) to get in the game

Sounds pretty normal for most new industries. I recall paying $1,800+ for my first DVD player from Sony, and over $8,800 for my first mobile analog phone.

I remember paying $9,000 for my first Plasma TV. Now the same 50" Plasma sells for $500

[becoin]

Well let's flip the possibilities.. and then add in a dash of reasoning..

If someone paid ~2.5 BTC to buy a Jalapeno right now.. and then 3 months from now BTC plunges to 5$ a BTC again..  Would that customer.. or YOU.. be DEMANDING that you get your 2.5BTC back?  

Of course, this is how markets work! By sending my BTC to BFL I'm buying ASICs. I'm not buying USD as BFL speculators want me to believe. If the price of BTC drops to zero the prices of all BFL ASICs will be zero as they'll be completely useless.

[Pierre]

If you paid for your order with 50 BTC, you should get a refund of 50 BTC. If you paid with $1000 USD, you should get a refund of $1000 USD.

Seems pretty obvious to me?

[elasticband]

Not really...... the units were priced in USD they acceptrd bitcoin as a payment meyhod via bitpay who automatically turn your btc into USD that is how their business works......... by buying the order and using bitpay as payment you accepted your htc would instantly become usd to pay for your order........ I dont like bfl one bit but if you paid in btc you dont have a leg to stand on

[becoin]

If you paid for your order with 50 BTC, you should get a refund of 50 BTC. If you paid with $1000 USD, you should get a refund of $1000 USD.

Seems pretty obvious to me?

Sure. People arguing the opposite are actually saying that BTC will never be used as a currency without the USD and will always depend on BTC/USD exchange rate. Sounds familiar, huh? They want BTC to be just an extension of the USD?! And those people claim they are part of BTC community!? It is beyond my understanding.

[elasticband]

Bitcoin couod jever work in the real world if peopke acted like this. ....... you goto the locql store huy a tv worth 1000e for 10btc..... you then return the tv the following day when btc has dropped to 50e.... does the buyer now demand 20btc?

People here can be so immature regarding money

[becoin]

bitpay who automatically turn your btc into USD that is how their business works.........

Not really... Business works through contracts. BitPay is NOT turning my BTC into USD as I don't have any contractual relations with BitPay. BitPay is turning BFL's bitcoins into USD as BFL is a BitPay customer. It is completely up to BFL to decide what % of BTC received with BitPay they want converted into USD!

[becoin]

People here can be so immature regarding money

Obviously, you are one of them. This is why my professional advice to you is: Think twice before start selling something in bitcoins. If you can't manage BTC/USD exchange risk you'd better accept only USD. Don't try to pass this exchange risk on to your customers because what they buy is NOT USD but the actual products and services you sell!

[elasticband]

People here can be so immature regarding money

Obviously, you are one of them. This is why my professional advice to you is: Think twice before start selling something in bitcoins. If you can't manage BTC/USD exchange risk you'd better accept only USD. Don't try to pass this exchange risk on to your customers because what they buy is NOT USD but the actual products and services you sell!

sounds like someone over paid in BTC for his mining equipment and knows he will never make that many BTC back again.......