Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest

[itod]

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

[zimmah]

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

I agree to this, what if someone went on holiday for a month or so? Or what if someone invested and just waited for a fee months before  checking up on it because he doesn't immediatly need his bitcoins and he does not feel the need to check back often?

[organofcorti]

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

I agree to this, what if someone went on holiday for a month or so? Or what if someone invested and just waited for a fee months before  checking up on it because he doesn't immediatly need his bitcoins and he does not feel the need to check back often?

This what the emergency return address is for.

[PacoMartin]

It's almost 6 days since we announced we were suspending betting, and our coin liability has fallen from over 53k BTC to a little under 6k BTC.

The top 10 biggest account balances still on site are:

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73 BTC

The biggest one is accounted for - I reached him via forum PM and he'll be withdrawing soon.

So beyond those 10 accounts you still have over 800 BTC left. Is that spread over 50 acounts or 1000 accounts or 5000 accounts?

I don't know how much trouble you have to go through to track accounts of less than 1 BTC.

[dooglus]

It's almost 6 days since we announced we were suspending betting, and our coin liability has fallen from over 53k BTC to a little under 6k BTC.

The top 10 biggest account balances still on site are:

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73 BTC

The biggest one is accounted for - I reached him via forum PM and he'll be withdrawing soon.

So beyond those 10 accounts you still have over 800 BTC left. Is that spread over 50 acounts or 1000 accounts or 5000 accounts?

I don't know how much trouble you have to go through to track accounts of less than 1 BTC.

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:

736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

[PacoMartin]

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:
736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

But seriously, people can't be that oblivious. I have to believe your balance will be below 100BTC in a few days.

[m5j0r]

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

There have been early adopters in chat that apparently didn't care about losing a few hundred thousand $$$ before. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these "investors" would never come back at all just the same.

I think doog should just keep them in some cold wallet. Doesn't cost anything and should they ever claim their coins it won't turn into a problem.

[zimmah]

Is it reasonable to give a cut-off date after which remaining balances are forfeit?

I believe someone who is not taking closer looks of what is happening would be very pissed when he founds out he missed some cut-off date, which he was never informed ever existed. It's very reasonable to assume there are lot of people trusting the site and never bother to check their BTC, treating the site as some kind of online wallet service. Of course you can not take care of their money forever, but one month cut-off date looks very, very short to me. If you ever decide to go this route, and inevitable face some very pissed off people in the future, make that cut-off date much longer, at least a few months, to maximize the chances one will eventually check what's happening. Also, i think it's very reasonable to change the front page with clear notification that end-of-service is closing. Notification in the chat area is not enough.

May I suggest other course of action that may solve your problems: Find a trustable escrow service, who is willing to deal with this situation, and send all cut-off money to them. This way you are relieved of all your obligations to the government because you are no longer in control of the funds, and those coins would be eventually retrievable from the escrow when some day owners remember they had some funds on JD.

I agree to this, what if someone went on holiday for a month or so? Or what if someone invested and just waited for a fee months before  checking up on it because he doesn't immediatly need his bitcoins and he does not feel the need to check back often?

This what the emergency return address is for.

Oh right, good point, I guess if you don't log in every once in a while and don't set an emergency adress it is pretty much your own fault.

It's not like Dooglus didn't offer enough methods to withdraw.

[boumalo]

You keep allowing withdrawals and try to contact investors then you use the emergency adresses like you said.

The accounts that will still show a balance can be linked to a trusted escrow that you pay with the BTC left : something like 1% of the total every month and the escrow needs to take care of giving the BTC back or not to those who claim it
It is not ideal by any means but it solves your problem and you are not legally liable of dealing with crypto anymore

[omahapoker]

good luck on whatever you do next.


july 1st just-dice and doge-dice will be off the top 100 rankings


its hard for me to do but will put them back up if you ever takes bets again.


http://cryptobettingindex.com/


no more pics from me to get your woody like pittsburg steel

[boumalo]

How much BTC is there that cannot be sent to an emergency address or will not be sent soon to users that cannot access their account because of F2A?

[2double0]

I reallllly enjoyed the site shame to see it close its doors....

[dooglus]

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:
736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

You've no idea how scary it is watching a large investment go up and down like crazy on Just-Dice. I often divested when a whale was playing, only to miss out on their eventual big loss. If I had just closed my eyes and let it ride I would have done so much better.

Maybe that's what some of these people are doing - they don't want the emotional rollercoaster of wins and losses, and trust the math to work its magic long term.

The biggest remaining (736) balance attempted to withdraw recently, but the hot wallet ran dry. I've refilled it now.

Remaining balances (rounded down to integers):

Jun 26 02:29 - total: 12111

2694, 2247, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 164, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 92, 75, 73, 71, 66, 65, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 2*43, 42, 2*41, 37, 36, 35, 34, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 4*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 6*12, 4*11, 7*10, 7*9, 5*8, 4*7, 3*6, 7*5, 8*4, 19*3, 26*2, 92*1, 3914*0

Jun 26 15:15 - total: 10083

2247, 1000, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 187, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 75, 73, 71, 67, 66, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 43, 41, 37, 36, 35, 30, 29, 28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 3*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 5*12, 4*11, 6*10, 7*9, 5*8, 2*7, 3*6, 7*5, 7*4, 19*3, 25*2, 89*1, 3892*0

Jun 27 21:36 - total: 7378

2247, 736, 692, 528, 394, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 94, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3814*0

Jun 28 01:57 - total: 6626

2247, 736, 692, 378, 344, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3808*0

Jun 29 15:40 - total: 6104

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 20, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 58*1, 3793*0

Jun 30 01:25 - total: 3807

736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1, 3791*0

Jun 30 14:42 - total: 3228

692, 378, 361, 314, 186, 143, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 4*4, 11*3, 13*2, 56*1, 3786*0

[boumalo]

The biggest one is fully withdrawn now, leaving:
736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1

If you have an investment over $400K and you don't look it once a week, that is just God telling you that you have too much money.

You've no idea how scary it is watching a large investment go up and down like crazy on Just-Dice. I often divested when a whale was playing, only to miss out on their eventual big loss. If I had just closed my eyes and let it ride I would have done so much better.

Maybe that's what some of these people are doing - they don't want the emotional rollercoaster of wins and losses, and trust the math to work its magic long term.

The biggest remaining (736) balance attempted to withdraw recently, but the hot wallet ran dry. I've refilled it now.

Remaining balances (rounded down to integers):

Jun 26 02:29 - total: 12111

2694, 2247, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 164, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 92, 75, 73, 71, 66, 65, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 2*43, 42, 2*41, 37, 36, 35, 34, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 4*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 6*12, 4*11, 7*10, 7*9, 5*8, 4*7, 3*6, 7*5, 8*4, 19*3, 26*2, 92*1, 3914*0

Jun 26 15:15 - total: 10083

2247, 1000, 736, 692, 528, 490, 394, 378, 314, 187, 143, 142, 133, 119, 118, 94, 75, 73, 71, 67, 66, 60, 57, 55, 53, 52, 50, 2*47, 46, 44, 43, 41, 37, 36, 35, 30, 29, 28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 3*21, 2*20, 19, 2*18, 2*17, 2*15, 3*14, 3*13, 5*12, 4*11, 6*10, 7*9, 5*8, 2*7, 3*6, 7*5, 7*4, 19*3, 25*2, 89*1, 3892*0

Jun 27 21:36 - total: 7378

2247, 736, 692, 528, 394, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 94, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 2*28, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 2*22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3814*0

Jun 28 01:57 - total: 6626

2247, 736, 692, 378, 344, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 57, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 2*25, 24, 22, 2*21, 2*18, 17, 15, 2*14, 2*13, 3*12, 2*11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 5*5, 6*4, 14*3, 16*2, 59*1, 3808*0

Jun 29 15:40 - total: 6104

2247, 736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 20, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 3*10, 3*9, 4*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 58*1, 3793*0

Jun 30 01:25 - total: 3807

736, 692, 378, 314, 186, 143, 142, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 30, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 17, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 5*4, 12*3, 14*2, 57*1, 3791*0

Jun 30 14:42 - total: 3228

692, 378, 361, 314, 186, 143, 133, 119, 73, 71, 52, 43, 41, 29, 27, 26, 25, 24, 22, 18, 15, 14, 2*13, 3*12, 11, 2*10, 2*9, 3*8, 2*6, 4*5, 4*4, 11*3, 13*2, 56*1, 3786*0

Very interesting numbers; about 95% of the BTC invested were already withdrawn then

It makes sense to invest then let it ride compared to get pointless emotions and losing time looking at the performance every single day

BTW, how much BTC is there that cannot be sent to an emergency address or will not be sent soon to users that cannot access their account because of F2A?

[dooglus]

BTW, how much BTC is there that cannot be sent to an emergency address or will not be sent soon to users that cannot access their account because of F2A?

I've not counted that up. I don't have a list of accounts which are having trouble with 2FA, I just use the ticket system. I trust that the affected users will remind me when it's time. I checked the top 20 outstanding balances yesterday and was happy to see that 19 of them have emergency withdrawal addresses specified, so that's a good sign.

[boumalo]

BTW, how much BTC is there that cannot be sent to an emergency address or will not be sent soon to users that cannot access their account because of F2A?

I've not counted that up. I don't have a list of accounts which are having trouble with 2FA, I just use the ticket system. I trust that the affected users will remind me when it's time. I checked the top 20 outstanding balances yesterday and was happy to see that 19 of them have emergency withdrawal addresses specified, so that's a good sign.

Oh so you probably won't be "stuck" with that many BTC left after all if you use the dangerous tool of the emergency address; maybe you can only send to those who made a payment with the emergency address or received a substantial amount on it within the last month or two so you know the investor probably still have access to the address

Then the rest of the money could be send to an escrow as explained in my previous post

[AlexM]

I have taken my BTC out today. I was a small investor on your list; thanks Doog, please keep us updated on new projects. I tried to limit myself to logging in on one day per month, otherwise you get sad when you loose coins and happy when you win, but over the course of a month or a few months you trust the numbers, sit back and do nothing and you made a profit, I only wish I had invested a lot more BTC a lot earlier.

I imagine that some people check even less than me, had I not stumbled across your email whilst looking for something else in my SPAM then I probably wouldn't have logged in for another 2 or 3 weeks. So I suggest keep the site open for withdrawals for the next 6 months before then doing the emergency withdraw. However time frame is up to you, if keeping open for 6 months wastes too much of your time then you may want to enact emergency withdrawal within the next week or month. Things like this is why you had an emergency withdrawal address.

[Joca97]

dooglus

is it true that your working on something for your site to come back online

thats what they said on jD

[PacoMartin]

You've no idea how scary it is watching a large investment go up and down like crazy on Just-Dice. I often divested when a whale was playing, only to miss out on their eventual big loss. If I had just closed my eyes and let it ride I would have done so much better.

Maybe that's what some of these people are doing - they don't want the emotional rollercoaster of wins and losses, and trust the math to work its magic long term.

The problem is that if you do the math, it doesn't prepare you. I think I got a good feeling from reading Double or Nothing. It almost ripped their friendship up. The one partner wanted to keep decreasing house edge and raising bet limits so that they would be considered hands down the best place for whales. The other partner was having a nervous breakdown.

There's always that nagging feeling that maybe it isn't a fair game. Even if you can't figure out how, you are lying awake at night wondering if they found a way.

It sounds like Deb had more trouble than you did with the potshots. At the risk of sounding sexist, men sometimes can simply look at the personal attacks as the price of being the point of the spear, but women have a harder time.

I saw an interviewer asked President Bush just after he left office if it was difficult to take the personal jabs. He just said it was to be expected, but Laura perked up and said it bothered the hell out of her.

[galbros]

Doog, I think you are handling the return of coins as professionally as possible.  I really like the layout of the investors that have not withdrawn yet.  I can easily see someone wanting to not check in that much.

However, what I wanted to talk about was the "what's next" question.  Have you considered licensing your site design and expertise?  So many people want to start a dice site (you provided some great advice to this guy ) and given your reputation and experience that might be a great way to reproduce just dice somewhere without legal issues and stress on you and deb.

Thanks and good luck!