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Author Topic: Just-Dice.com : now with added CLAMs : Play or Invest  (Read 431894 times)
andulolika
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February 17, 2016, 03:10:55 PM
 #4401

Hi, I did some math on my commision history and I figured out, that if you have offsite less than 6 you are paying more on the staking fees, that you make on the bankroll.

I am investing on JD since January last year. Without offsite my bankroll profit would be 5 CLAMs while my staking profit is 300. It means I "paid" 30 CLAMs on staking fees while get only 5 on bankroll.

With offsite 10x its still ok, but if you are using offsite 1x is investing on JD pointless (in case you are investing only because of bankroll profit).

I believe what said is irrelevant, staking and bankrolling are separated profits with separated commissions.
And yes, since most of the investors want to be bankroll too and they use offsite they take more risk hence more profits, if there was no offsite at all your win/loss per bet would be the same as if everyone was full offsited, atleast i think, someone correct me if im wrong.

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February 17, 2016, 04:23:17 PM
 #4402

Hi, I did some math on my commision history and I figured out, that if you have offsite less than 6 you are paying more on the staking fees, that you make on the bankroll.

I am investing on JD since January last year. Without offsite my bankroll profit would be 5 CLAMs while my staking profit is 300. It means I "paid" 30 CLAMs on staking fees while get only 5 on bankroll.

With offsite 10x its still ok, but if you are using offsite 1x is investing on JD pointless (in case you are investing only because of bankroll profit).

I don't know if you understand how it works or not, so I'll explain:

 1) Bankroll profits are charged 10% commission on new net profits at the end of each week.

 2) Staking profits are charged 10% commission at source.

So if in a week you earn 10 CLAMs from staking and 10 CLAMs from bankrolling, you will pay 1 CLAM commission twice and end up with 18 CLAMs profit.

You seem to be saying that if you are at offsite 6x then the staking profit is 10 times the bankroll profit, and so the commission on staking is equal to the profit from bankrolling. That may be the case, but I don't understand your point. What of it? If your bankroll profit didn't cover your staking commission you're still making a profit on both.

Currently, CLAM inflation is pretty high, and so staking rewards tend to swamp bankroll profits. The rate of inflation drops constantly, and so over time we can expect bankroll profits to become increasingly significant.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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superbit
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February 17, 2016, 04:36:32 PM
 #4403

Hi, I did some math on my commision history and I figured out, that if you have offsite less than 6 you are paying more on the staking fees, that you make on the bankroll.

I am investing on JD since January last year. Without offsite my bankroll profit would be 5 CLAMs while my staking profit is 300. It means I "paid" 30 CLAMs on staking fees while get only 5 on bankroll.

With offsite 10x its still ok, but if you are using offsite 1x is investing on JD pointless (in case you are investing only because of bankroll profit).

I don't know if you understand how it works or not, so I'll explain:

 1) Bankroll profits are charged 10% commission on new net profits at the end of each week.

 2) Staking profits are charged 10% commission at source.

So if in a week you earn 10 CLAMs from staking and 10 CLAMs from bankrolling, you will pay 1 CLAM commission twice and end up with 18 CLAMs profit.

You seem to be saying that if you are at offsite 6x then the staking profit is 10 times the bankroll profit, and so the commission on staking is equal to the profit from bankrolling. That may be the case, but I don't understand your point. What of it? If your bankroll profit didn't cover your staking commission you're still making a profit on both.

Currently, CLAM inflation is pretty high, and so staking rewards tend to swamp bankroll profits. The rate of inflation drops constantly, and so over time we can expect bankroll profits to become increasingly significant.

I think his point is that in that scenario he would be better of just staking the coins himself since the 10% he pays in staking fees is not covered by the additional revenue source of just-dice.

https://bitfinex.com/?refcode=UInJLQ5KpA <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with the refcode
My feedback thread: Forum thread
dooglus
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February 17, 2016, 06:04:04 PM
 #4404

I think his point is that in that scenario he would be better of just staking the coins himself since the 10% he pays in staking fees is not covered by the additional revenue source of just-dice.

Oh, of course!

And he's right in that case. Even if the bankroll rewards did cover the staking fee it might still be better to stake the coins yourself to avoid the risk of losing coins to a lucky player, site hack, or doog-running-off-with-the-coins scam.

I set the staking commission high in an attempt not to monopolize CLAM staking. It hasn't worked, but at least the incentives to solo-stake are in place.

Just-Dice                 ██             
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February 17, 2016, 07:44:32 PM
 #4405

Suddenly, without warning:


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suchmoon
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February 17, 2016, 07:52:45 PM
 #4406

Suddenly, without warning:

http://i.imgur.com/8GAdYAN.png

Ouch, that 49 one was brutal.

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kolloh
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February 17, 2016, 08:29:29 PM
 #4407

Yikes, that 49.31 was so close to the 49.99 cut of point.
Faust Roland
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February 17, 2016, 08:39:50 PM
 #4408

I think his point is that in that scenario he would be better of just staking the coins himself since the 10% he pays in staking fees is not covered by the additional revenue source of just-dice.

Oh, of course!

And he's right in that case. Even if the bankroll rewards did cover the staking fee it might still be better to stake the coins yourself to avoid the risk of losing coins to a lucky player, site hack, or doog-running-off-with-the-coins scam.

I set the staking commission high in an attempt not to monopolize CLAM staking. It hasn't worked, but at least the incentives to solo-stake are in place.

Yes, that was my point. Thanks superbit for better explanation :-)

I decided to stake myself now, just to help decentralisation of clams (as I would make more or JD with offsite 10x)
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February 17, 2016, 08:50:14 PM
 #4409

Suddenly, without warning:



You're the Japan to his whale!


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altcoinlinks2
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February 17, 2016, 11:01:27 PM
 #4410

Suddenly, without warning:



You're the Japan to his whale!

lol thats funny but whoa thats alot of clams
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February 17, 2016, 11:51:51 PM
 #4411

Suddenly, without warning:



You're the Japan to his whale!

Wow, site profit through roof.  Sorry for starfish, but I'm glad I went offsite max a few days ago.  Myohmy.  I think that's the largest single bet yet, isn't it? (the 25K one).

By the way, what's the latest on the changes to offsite?  Are you getting rid of it altogether?
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February 18, 2016, 03:00:46 AM
 #4412

Damn that was a crazy loss guy has some balls for sure.
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February 18, 2016, 08:11:55 AM
 #4413

I think that's the largest single bet yet, isn't it? (the 25K one).

Yeah. The previous biggest was 24k...

By the way, what's the latest on the changes to offsite?  Are you getting rid of it altogether?

I said I wouldn't reduce it below 25x until after offering a 'staking only' option.

The maximum offsite multiplier is currently at 25x.

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February 19, 2016, 12:00:30 AM
 #4414

Suddenly, without warning:



I was wondering where that came from
All of the sudden bam

(lol sent my 30x to 25x pre-change)
Bitcoiner2015
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February 19, 2016, 09:11:28 PM
 #4415

Suddenly, without warning:



More than $32k in no time at all! People are crazy! Oh well, 33 extra clam for me Smiley Also good to see that if he had been lucky I wouldn't be wiped out.
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February 19, 2016, 11:16:55 PM
 #4416

Hi, I did some math on my commision history and I figured out, that if you have offsite less than 6 you are paying more on the staking fees, that you make on the bankroll.

I am investing on JD since January last year. Without offsite my bankroll profit would be 5 CLAMs while my staking profit is 300. It means I "paid" 30 CLAMs on staking fees while get only 5 on bankroll.

With offsite 10x its still ok, but if you are using offsite 1x is investing on JD pointless (in case you are investing only because of bankroll profit).

I don't know if you understand how it works or not, so I'll explain:

 1) Bankroll profits are charged 10% commission on new net profits at the end of each week.

 2) Staking profits are charged 10% commission at source.

So if in a week you earn 10 CLAMs from staking and 10 CLAMs from bankrolling, you will pay 1 CLAM commission twice and end up with 18 CLAMs profit.

You seem to be saying that if you are at offsite 6x then the staking profit is 10 times the bankroll profit, and so the commission on staking is equal to the profit from bankrolling. That may be the case, but I don't understand your point. What of it? If your bankroll profit didn't cover your staking commission you're still making a profit on both.

Currently, CLAM inflation is pretty high, and so staking rewards tend to swamp bankroll profits. The rate of inflation drops constantly, and so over time we can expect bankroll profits to become increasingly significant.

I don't know very much about this. What is the current inflation rate and how frequently does it drop? Is it at set intervals?


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▬▬ THE LARGEST & MOST TRUSTED ▬▬
      BITCOIN SPORTSBOOK     
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andulolika
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February 20, 2016, 10:20:16 AM
 #4417

Hi, I did some math on my commision history and I figured out, that if you have offsite less than 6 you are paying more on the staking fees, that you make on the bankroll.

I am investing on JD since January last year. Without offsite my bankroll profit would be 5 CLAMs while my staking profit is 300. It means I "paid" 30 CLAMs on staking fees while get only 5 on bankroll.

With offsite 10x its still ok, but if you are using offsite 1x is investing on JD pointless (in case you are investing only because of bankroll profit).

I don't know if you understand how it works or not, so I'll explain:

 1) Bankroll profits are charged 10% commission on new net profits at the end of each week.

 2) Staking profits are charged 10% commission at source.

So if in a week you earn 10 CLAMs from staking and 10 CLAMs from bankrolling, you will pay 1 CLAM commission twice and end up with 18 CLAMs profit.

You seem to be saying that if you are at offsite 6x then the staking profit is 10 times the bankroll profit, and so the commission on staking is equal to the profit from bankrolling. That may be the case, but I don't understand your point. What of it? If your bankroll profit didn't cover your staking commission you're still making a profit on both.

Currently, CLAM inflation is pretty high, and so staking rewards tend to swamp bankroll profits. The rate of inflation drops constantly, and so over time we can expect bankroll profits to become increasingly significant.

I don't know very much about this. What is the current inflation rate and how frequently does it drop? Is it at set intervals?
Think that every day is staked a clam per minute, but diggers are uncommon events that you dont know when will happen and may increase the supply

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dooglus
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February 20, 2016, 09:09:06 PM
 #4418

What is the current inflation rate and how frequently does it drop? Is it at set intervals?

There are two things that inflate the active money supply:

1) staking

2) digging

Staking: every time a new block is found, 1 new CLAM is created. The network stakes 1 block per minute on average. That's 1440 new CLAMs per day. There are currently a little less than 1.6 million CLAMs in the active money supply, so the 1440 new CLAMs created daily correspond to 0.09% inflation per day, or around 33% over the next year.

  >>> 1440.0 * 100 / 1.6e6
  0.09

  >>> 365 * 1440.0 * 100 / 1.6e6
  32.85

Digging: CLAM was initially given out free to all BTC, LTC, and DOGE holders. Most of those holders didn't claim their CLAMs, but they still can if they want to. So far only 832,961 CLAM were claimed out of around 15 million. It's possible that someone will start claiming thousands of old BTC addresses which will cause sudden massive inflation. And it's possible they won't. We just can't tell.

So how often does the inflation rate drop?

Staking: inflation is 1 CLAM per minute, but the total supply is constantly increasing, so as a percentage that 1 CLAM per minute is less each time.

Digging: it depends entirely on when people dig, and how much.

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marilyn4325
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February 20, 2016, 09:17:31 PM
 #4419

Staking: every time a new block is found, 1 new CLAM is created. The network stakes 1 block per minute on average. That's 1440 new CLAMs per day. There are currently a little less than 1.6 million CLAMs in the active money supply, so the 1440 new CLAMs created daily correspond to 0.09% inflation per day, or around 33% over the next year.

  >>> 1440.0 * 100 / 1.6e6
  0.09

  >>> 365 * 1440.0 * 100 / 1.6e6
  32.85

Don't the staked CLAM stake again? Would mean 1.0009^365=1,389, so around 39% over the next year.
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February 20, 2016, 09:28:15 PM
 #4420

Don't the staked CLAM stake again? Would mean 1.0009^365=1,389, so around 39% over the next year.

The staked CLAM stake again, but the money supply grows each time they do, so the percentage increase goes down each time. That means you need to use a simple interest calculation, not compound interest.

A simpler example:

Suppose the money supply was 100k, and 1k was staked per day for 10 days. That's 1% growth in the first day, 0.99% the 2nd day, 0.98% the 3rd day, and the rate keeps dropping each day. But after 10 days the total supply has risen 10k to 110k, which means it has grown by exactly 10%.

Does that make sense?

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