Assault weapon bans

[Spendulus]

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

Japan doesn't "lack" guns nor "gun deaths"/crime at all, despite what that bloody sociopath would have gun control victims believe about his criminals' utopia.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/the-great-japanese-gang-wars.html

Yeaaaah... There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that some people die from guns in places with gun control, but the US murder rate is 12x that of Japan. That said, there's only barely a correlation between murder rate and death rate in countries. It's extraordinary for someone to be murdered anywhere. Almost everyone in the world dies of disease, not guns, fists, spears, or bombs.

Cancer's killed ~25m in the US in the past 40 years. Guns have been involved in roughly 500k homicides in the US in the past 40 years. The Brady Campaign takes in $4m annually. The Kanzius Institute takes in $1.3m annually. So...... yeah.

This isn't fair, because Brady's the biggest, while Kanzius isn't (however, they are in the small minority of medical research NPFs actually spending the money almost entirely on actual programs), but I would argue America's wrong-prioritization currently = ((cancer deaths / gun deaths)*(cancer funding / gun funding)), or ~150%. The way I see it, we're basically 150% fucking stupid.

If you go to cancer funding you will see a similar differential, namely breast cancer gets far more than other far deadlier cancers.  Due to marketing, basically.

[Rassah]

If you go to cancer funding you will see a similar differential, namely breast cancer gets far more than other far deadlier cancers.  Due to marketing, basically.

People just happen to like breasts a lot more than all those other cancer-prone organs. The market has spoken

[freedomno1]

If you go to cancer funding you will see a similar differential, namely breast cancer gets far more than other far deadlier cancers.  Due to marketing, basically.

People just happen to like breasts a lot more than all those other cancer-prone organs. The market has spoken

+1 Tits or GTFO logic
I don't need evidence to back this claim up 

[NewLiberty]

That may be going a bit too far

I agree, I ought not have stooped to his level.  It seemed that any lesser response was falling on deafness.  His incessant assertions of invidious motive, that I/we do not have compassion for the innocents who have suffered from violence, that we are the problem, that our desire and actions are to arm criminals.  His unspeakable ad hominems, which ought not have been repeated...  All this pointed out creates no learning in his mind.  Even so, a demonstration to him of his rhetorical tactics reflected back to him, ought not be done as public display.
Retracted, I've deleted it. Feel welcome to do likewise, or not, as you like.

[FirstAscent]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone.

Really? How is that working out for Japan?

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

Completely banned in Washington DC? Ineffective laws enforced ineffectively, and nonuniform application of laws within local geographic areas are indeed part of the problem.

[Rassah]

That may be going a bit too far

I agree, I ought not have stooped to his level.  It seemed that any lesser response was falling on deafness.  His incessant assertions of invidious motive, that I/we do not have compassion for the innocents who have suffered from violence, that we are the problem, that our desire and actions are to arm criminals.  His unspeakable ad hominems, which ought not have been repeated...  All this pointed out creates no learning in his mind.  Even so, a demonstration to him of his rhetorical tactics reflected back to him, ought not be done as public display.
Retracted, I've deleted it. Feel welcome to do likewise, or not, as you like.

I understand. Some people drive me crazy on here, too. I just feel better, from a certain sense of schadenfreude knowing where people like him will end up in the future. At best, it will be exactly where they are now, in countries crumbling from debt, their prospects for retirement and pensions quickly evaporating, and their society devolving into riots and destruction. At worst, in a society where government services are rapidly becoming as relevant as CDs and copyright laws in the age of file sharing, where their system of beliefs are irrelevant, or get them killed. Maybe we would be feeling sorry for their types instead.

[Rassah]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone.

Really? How is that working out for Japan?

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

Completely banned in Washington DC? Ineffective laws enforced ineffectively, and nonuniform application of laws within local geographic areas are indeed part of the problem.

Yes. Completely banned. Illegal to own a gun. Extremely effective law, where being caught with a gun lands you in jail. And there are a lot of cops on the streets to enforce that law. The nonuniform application is part of the problem. That criminals don't care about laws, since they are criminals, and have to resort to shooting cops to avoid getting caught with guns and put away for a very long time is the other problem. So we can ban all guns in US, then ask Canada and Mexico to do the same. Then ask all the countries in South America. Then everywhere else in the world. Except criminals are criminals. They won't care about those laws, and will figure out a way around them, like by printing guns at home. Then we can start regulating 3D printers and online files. And that will be as effective as stopping Pirate Bay.
So yes, it is indeed a problem. One without a real solution.

[FirstAscent]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone.

Really? How is that working out for Japan?

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

Completely banned in Washington DC? Ineffective laws enforced ineffectively, and nonuniform application of laws within local geographic areas are indeed part of the problem.

Yes. Completely banned. Illegal to own a gun. Extremely effective law, where being caught with a gun lands you in jail. And there are a lot of cops on the streets to enforce that law. The nonuniform application is part of the problem. That criminals don't care about laws, since they are criminals, and have to resort to shooting cops to avoid getting caught with guns and put away for a very long time is the other problem. So we can ban all guns in US, then ask Canada and Mexico to do the same. Then ask all the countries in South America. Then everywhere else in the world. Except criminals are criminals. They won't care about those laws, and will figure out a way around them, like by printing guns at home. Then we can start regulating 3D printers and online files. And that will be as effective as stopping Pirate Bay.
So yes, it is indeed a problem. One without a real solution.

Last time I checked, Japan didn't ask any other countries to ban guns.

[NewLiberty]

500k homicides exclusively by criminals, or including justified homicides OF criminals in self-defense (both by LE and civilians)?

I really doubt the government accurately identifies "justified homicides," so all homicides are included.

Justified...?  http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/08/cop-shoots-man-after-running-down-daughter/
(Nothing to do with Assault Weapons though)

[hawkeye]

I understand. Some people drive me crazy on here, too. I just feel better, from a certain sense of schadenfreude knowing where people like him will end up in the future. At best, it will be exactly where they are now, in countries crumbling from debt, their prospects for retirement and pensions quickly evaporating, and their society devolving into riots and destruction. At worst, in a society where government services are rapidly becoming as relevant as CDs and copyright laws in the age of file sharing, where their system of beliefs are irrelevant, or get them killed. Maybe we would be feeling sorry for their types instead.

Says it all really.  I don't bother arguing with them for the most part.  Just make the occasional point here and there.  Arguing with guys like these is too much like arguing with my parents.  Endlessly frustrating and rarely do you get any sense out of them.  More power to those of you that have the patience to make the relevant points. 

[mdude77]

Sounds like the only solution is to ban all guns in all cities, then when people bring them from nearby, ban them in states, then when they bring them from neighboring states, ban them in the whole country, then when they bring them from neighboring countries, ban them in all countries. Unless the country you are trying to ban them in doesn't like you, and realizes that they have all the guns, and you don't Hell, even if you ban all the guns in the entire world, there's still the asshole effect, which is that it only takes one asshole (or one asshole country) to ruin it for everyone.

Really? How is that working out for Japan?

As I said, we don't really know. Is their crime rate low due to lack of guns, or due to their culture? Aren't there some places where guns are completely banned, where crime rates are really high? (like Washington DC)

Completely banned in Washington DC? Ineffective laws enforced ineffectively, and nonuniform application of laws within local geographic areas are indeed part of the problem.

Yes. Completely banned. Illegal to own a gun. Extremely effective law, where being caught with a gun lands you in jail. And there are a lot of cops on the streets to enforce that law. The nonuniform application is part of the problem. That criminals don't care about laws, since they are criminals, and have to resort to shooting cops to avoid getting caught with guns and put away for a very long time is the other problem. So we can ban all guns in US, then ask Canada and Mexico to do the same. Then ask all the countries in South America. Then everywhere else in the world. Except criminals are criminals. They won't care about those laws, and will figure out a way around them, like by printing guns at home. Then we can start regulating 3D printers and online files. And that will be as effective as stopping Pirate Bay.
So yes, it is indeed a problem. One without a real solution.

You forgot to mention governments in there.  They are arguably worse than the criminals on the streets who ignore laws.

M

[FirstAscent]

I understand. Some people drive me crazy on here, too. I just feel better, from a certain sense of schadenfreude knowing where people like him will end up in the future. At best, it will be exactly where they are now, in countries crumbling from debt, their prospects for retirement and pensions quickly evaporating, and their society devolving into riots and destruction. At worst, in a society where government services are rapidly becoming as relevant as CDs and copyright laws in the age of file sharing, where their system of beliefs are irrelevant, or get them killed. Maybe we would be feeling sorry for their types instead.

Says it all really.  I don't bother arguing with them for the most part.  Just make the occasional point here and there.  Arguing with guys like these is too much like arguing with my parents.  Endlessly frustrating and rarely do you get any sense out of them.  More power to those of you that have the patience to make the relevant points. 

I can only imagine how exasperated your parents must be.

[Spendulus]

I understand. Some people drive me crazy on here, too. I just feel better, from a certain sense of schadenfreude knowing where people like him will end up in the future. At best, it will be exactly where they are now, in countries crumbling from debt, their prospects for retirement and pensions quickly evaporating, and their society devolving into riots and destruction. At worst, in a society where government services are rapidly becoming as relevant as CDs and copyright laws in the age of file sharing, where their system of beliefs are irrelevant, or get them killed. Maybe we would be feeling sorry for their types instead.

Says it all really.  I don't bother arguing with them for the most part.  Just make the occasional point here and there.  Arguing with guys like these is too much like arguing with my parents.  Endlessly frustrating and rarely do you get any sense out of them.  More power to those of you that have the patience to make the relevant points. 

I can only imagine how exasperated your parents must be.

You do have a point, but it beats being a Borg spawn of the deep far left spinmeister crypt, faithfully marching down the anti-gun tunnel of doom.

[Rassah]

You forgot to mention governments in there.  They are arguably worse than the criminals on the streets who ignore laws.

M

You don't say

Just remember, and remind everyone, that "police do not have a duty to provide police services to individuals, even if a dispatcher promises help to be on the way."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia

[RodeoX]

Personally I support an assault weapon ban. Assault is illegal and a terrible thing. None of my guns are "assault weapons" not my AR15, not my AK47, none of them.
Here locally a guy was just sentenced for using an assault dog. 
http://www.channel3000.com/news/Man-who-ordered-dog-attack-gets-6-years-in-prison/-/1648/21177628/-/ohmfniz/-/index.html

[Spendulus]

Personally I support an assault weapon ban. Assault is illegal and a terrible thing. None of my guns are "assault weapons" not my AR15, not my AK47, none of them.
Here locally a guy was just sentenced for using an assault dog. 
http://www.channel3000.com/news/Man-who-ordered-dog-attack-gets-6-years-in-prison/-/1648/21177628/-/ohmfniz/-/index.html

I known that.  Because if them were Assault Weapons, them'd be AW15 and AWE47.  But they izzn't.

So...if guns were banned then only Hollywood would have guns?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MJPAWG-BC0

[TheButterZone]

AR=ArmaLite Rifle
AK=Avtomat Kalashnikova

[mdude77]

+1.

Well spoken sir.

M

[Spendulus]

While I dread to barge in on episodes of the blind leading the blind, and the accompanying crass affronts to logic and reason, the topic at hand is timely, and the general Bitcoin audience of a decidedly egalitarian bent, I will share some musings with our beloved subset of the vox populi for your further amusement......

This was forewarned by Eisenhower:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

The science fiction of Daniel Suarez (Daemon, Freedom, Kill Decision) guesses at some of the future dystopian enventualities of our current course of corporate mega control of politicians and society.  I don't agree with his conclusions, but find his work highly imaginative and entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUEGzjnGsiA

The effort to produce the argument from first principles is appreciated, for me personally living in the USA, my position is quite different.  It is more like "I have this right, the 2nd amendment, now how do we best live and conduct ourself with that reality".  But yes, some would take it away, and the origin of those arguments are not in the loudest voices heard.

This is because the very nature of "propaganda" is to be "propagated", and that is only really done by those who do not know it's nature, but do the job because it is popular or trendy, or they are paid in one fashion or another for so doing.

It is unfortunate that some of the most important lessons of history cannot be so easily imparted and must be re learned the hard way over and over.   Hopefully some part of this, at the least the tragic consequences of economic failure of nations overspending and printing money without end, can be mitigated by, as in the past, conversion to substitute currencies, but with Bitcoin, at an exponentially more rapid pace, and the net human suffering be according less.

Forgive me for truncating in this reply some of your work.  I'm interested in reading more, please either post references or if more appropriate send me a link to such.

Well done.

[Rassah]

While I dread to barge in on episodes of the blind leading the blind, and the accompanying crass affronts to logic and reason, the topic at hand is timely, and the general Bitcoin audience of a decidedly egalitarian bent, I will share some musings with our beloved subset of the vox populi for your further amusement.  It is quite long, but my hope is, not so long as to bore you unnecessarily.

Good sir, I do believe I am in love. Please pray tell, where have you learned to speak so eloquently?