Bitcoin Forum
June 22, 2024, 07:41:40 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 ... 115 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] Bitfury ASIC sales in EU and Europe  (Read 250421 times)
dudeofthestick
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 78
Merit: 10



View Profile
July 05, 2013, 10:34:35 PM
 #121

If the only payment method is bitcoins, I don't understand why they tax the purchase with VAT.

VAT only applies to FIAT transactions. With Bitcoins you can avoid this tax.

This is not true, at least in my country. VAT applies to all transactions, for goods and services, no matter what the currency it was originally taken. For the purpose of VAT the value of the transaction is recalculated in the local currency, and VAT (20%) is always applied in local currency. Avoiding to pay VAT is serious offense and actively prosecuted, so sport of avoiding VAT is not even talked about in any business worth its salt.

You are wrong. Bitcoin is not a legally accepted currency.

When you operate with Bitcoins you are "exchanging" them for good and services.

Strictly speaking, you only need to pay the VAT when you convert from fiat to bitcoins, because you are buying them. Whatever transactions you do afterwards is bartering.

Do you understand now why governments hate bitcoins? It is not because of money laundering: it's because it could be legal to use them to avoid taxes tributes.



AM4Bitcoin
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 189
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 05, 2013, 10:47:48 PM
 #122

Maybe where you live but in germany and most other countries that is definitely not the case. You have to pay VAT.

bullish on Bitcoin + Peercoin
dudeofthestick
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 78
Merit: 10



View Profile
July 05, 2013, 10:58:26 PM
 #123

Sorry, in Spanish:

http://elblogdeltoguero.blogspot.com.es/2013/05/pago-del-iva-el-bitcoin-como.html

In Spain exists the concept of "Social coins". You don't need to tribute them.

Since bitcoin is not regulated, it falls under this concept.

AFAIK the concept of social coins is common all along the EU.
PaperClip
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0



View Profile
July 05, 2013, 11:12:34 PM
 #124

What type of heatsink does 25GH Miner Starter Kit need? Is it ok something like 16 small heatsinks without fan?
jelin1984
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2408
Merit: 1004



View Profile
July 05, 2013, 11:16:49 PM
 #125

Do you think another terrahash story or not??
bitfury
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 251


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 12:39:23 AM
 #126

First! Thanks for congratulations :-) As it was like quite long 8 month till this happened!

What type of heatsink does 25GH Miner Starter Kit need? Is it ok something like 16 small heatsinks without fan?

It is designed not to have external heatsinks.
kwaaak
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 139
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 01:12:56 AM
 #127

It is designed not to use heat sinks at 25Gh/s. But I think a lot of people would spend a couple bucks for 16 small pieces of metal to get an additional 3 or 4 or 5Gh/s.

Maybe a third party offers an upgrade kit for the Starter Kit consisting of some kind of mount, heat sinks, fan and a custom regulator.
PaperClip
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0



View Profile
July 06, 2013, 01:58:16 AM
 #128

First! Thanks for congratulations :-) As it was like quite long 8 month till this happened!

What type of heatsink does 25GH Miner Starter Kit need? Is it ok something like 16 small heatsinks without fan?

It is designed not to have external heatsinks.
Nice, thanks! Пoздpaвляю c ycпexoм!
Pinwheel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378
Merit: 250


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 02:23:47 AM
 #129

400GHash/s unit drawing 400W is a lot of heat. At least one 140mm fan will be required. Honestly it sounds little bit scary device consuming 400W and without external heatsinks.

Tom Waits: We should just start as soon as possible cause we might catch a rabbit before we have our pants on. (Juxtapoz)
PetrovMichael
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 34
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 04:05:40 AM
Last edit: July 06, 2013, 05:43:04 AM by PetrovMichael
 #130

If the only payment method is bitcoins, I don't understand why they tax the purchase with VAT.

VAT only applies to FIAT transactions. With Bitcoins you can avoid this tax.

This is not true, at least in my country. VAT applies to all transactions, for goods and services, no matter what the currency it was originally taken. For the purpose of VAT the value of the transaction is recalculated in the local currency, and VAT (20%) is always applied in local currency. Avoiding to pay VAT is serious offense and actively prosecuted, so sport of avoiding VAT is not even talked about in any business worth its salt.

You are wrong. Bitcoin is not a legally accepted currency.

When you operate with Bitcoins you are "exchanging" them for good and services.

Strictly speaking, you only need to pay the VAT when you convert from fiat to bitcoins, because you are buying them. Whatever transactions you do afterwards is bartering.

Do you understand now why governments hate bitcoins? It is not because of money laundering: it's because it could be legal to use them to avoid taxes tributes.

AFAIK not exactly as both above... I think need to separate few procedures.

AFAIK VAT tax will not apply to individual in general, only personal income tax. VAT tax will apply to juridical entities, if no exempt (church as charity organization for example). If VAT quarter balance is positive, you should pay VAT tax (diff = VAT credit - VAT debit).

operation can be

1. If you buy BitCoin you need not to declare nothing (VAT debit)
2. If you sell BitCoin you need to declare annual income (VAT credit). Do you remember German regulator wrote =  if you sell BitCoin once a year - this is tax exempt ?
3. If you transfer BitCoin need not to declare nothing
4. If you receive some value - let say the device - actually you need to to declare annual income (and VAT will credit if juridical entity)
5. If you ship out some value - VAT debit the same as you pay fiat money.

so, by bookkeeping point of view does not matter will you ship out or pay, the key is value movement.


For example you pay EUR 12000 August 3, show as device purchasing (does not matter, thru BitCoin or bank payment or cash, depends on what you will write to bookkeeping). Let say VAT 20%. VAT debit is EUR 2000. Let say month later you receive the device invoice price EUR 9000, VAT credit 1500. And this all till October 1 (next quarter). VAT tax is 2000 - 1500 = EUR 500 you will have VAT debit within 4 quarter.  This is sceleton of VAT tax. (By the way, you can repay VAT debit by gov). If you will receive devices total value EUR 18000 (VAT 3000) you will have VAT credit EUR 1000 and should pay VAT tax EUR 1000. VAT balance of company bookkeeping vary quarter by quarter.

CONCLUSION.
German regulators show the way http://bitcoinmagazine.com/germany-provides-leadership-for-bitcoin-tax-clarity 
Buy BitCoins. Write record as investment. Keep record more than 1 year. (No one will ask you how you actually keep the BitCoin - your wallet.dat will enough as proof, auth interesting fiat bookkeeping record only - by law)

P.S. I'm not accountant, but this is basic of taxation. You need to ask your accountant for details.

P.P.S. VAT calculation . Cost without VAT 10000. VAT 20% = 2000 Cost with VAT = 12000. Cost without VAT 20% = 7500. VAT 1500. Cost with VAT = 9000. Reverse calculation - if VAT 20% - use 6 as divider to find VAT. For example, you can use http://vatcalconline.com



darkfriend77
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434
Merit: 265


View Profile WWW
July 06, 2013, 06:13:18 AM
 #131

is there any deadline for the august delivery? ... except 1. sept  Wink ...

-:| www.DOTMog.com |:-
achimsmile
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1225
Merit: 1000


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 07:50:39 AM
 #132

Just to let everyone know: I ordered a starter kit for august with two expansion cards for october

Ordered and paid on the 5th of July (first day of sale), and I'm already order#335  Shocked so I guess they are being ordered quite fast.
Anduck
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1511
Merit: 1072


quack


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 08:24:20 AM
 #133

Nice job with the chips, bitfury!

I am also interested in the overclocking of the board. When I get the board I ordered, I might try some slight overclocking with fans and heatsinks. Proper guide would be awesome so nothing breaks.

Just to let everyone know: I ordered a starter kit for august with two expansion cards for october

Ordered and paid on the 5th of July (first day of sale), and I'm already order#335  Shocked so I guess they are being ordered quite fast.

Order numbers didn't start from #1..

TechCF
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 109
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 08:34:23 AM
 #134

If I try to make an order to Switzerland, 19% VAT still stay included!
This must be a mistake?  Huh

It's the same with Norway. Usually when I buy from EU countries I do not get charged EU VAT, but I pay 25% VAT to Norway during customs clearance. The 24% EU VAT should be subtracted when I select a non-eu european country in the pull down menu.
madsusies
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 428
Merit: 250


BitcoinEvo [$XBTE]


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 08:43:49 AM
 #135

VAT Huh?  Cheesy For not existing product, 1000€ + VAT paid in BTC via Bitpay now when the prize of bitcoin drop every day down ? Someone need an extra money  Grin Now 1btc=70usd in august (in real oct) 1btc=20usd  Grin Grin i'm in

▬▬ • • •  BITCOINEVO $XBTE FREE AIRDROP LIVE NOW   • • • ▬▬
▌▌  Secure, decentralised & distributed cryptocurrency with sidechain technology*, on-chain dapps support*, xPoS and zero-proof anonymous transactions*.  ▐▐
cscape
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 251
Merit: 250



View Profile
July 06, 2013, 09:30:24 AM
 #136

I am also interested in the overclocking of the board. When I get the board I ordered, I might try some slight overclocking with fans and heatsinks. Proper guide would be awesome so nothing breaks.
The internal oscillator has a frequency that's voltage dependent. So, increasing the core voltage is all you have to do to make the chips run faster. At least, that's the theory. In practice, the board is powered by an integrated regulator with 30A capacity, and fixed voltage by SMT chip resistor. If you increase resistor, voltage goes up, but so does the current, and you'll risk overloading the regulator. You need to carefully monitor the current.

The 2.7GH/sec result I got with a single ASIC test board required 2.5A, and 0.835V. If you were to attempt that on the whole board, the total current of 40A would exceed the capabilities of the regulator.

Happy with your c-scape product ? Consider a tip: 16X2FWVRz6UzPWsu4WjKBMJatR7UvyKzcy
jlsminingcorp
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 493
Merit: 500


Hooray for non-equilibrium thermodynamics!


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 09:32:13 AM
 #137

First! Thanks for congratulations :-) As it was like quite long 8 month till this happened!

What type of heatsink does 25GH Miner Starter Kit need? Is it ok something like 16 small heatsinks without fan?

It is designed not to have external heatsinks.

Should have said this yesterday, sorry! Massive congratulations to bitfury and the dev team, this is a fantastic project that must have taken a huge amount of work. Your power consumption numbers are amazing Grin. I can't wait to see the miners rolling out of the doors. It's going to be a very interesting summer!

Bitcoin can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.
BitFury ASIC miner hosted group buy [DONE MINING]
itod
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1974
Merit: 1076


^ Will code for Bitcoins


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 10:51:38 AM
 #138

If I try to make an order to Switzerland, 19% VAT still stay included!
This must be a mistake?  Huh

It's the same with Norway. Usually when I buy from EU countries I do not get charged EU VAT, but I pay 25% VAT to Norway during customs clearance. The 24% EU VAT should be subtracted when I select a non-eu european country in the pull down menu.

This aligns to general VAT logic, VAT is always deduced when you export from your VAT area (all EU for EU countries) to stimulate the export, and than applied local VAT for the buyer during the customs. Since Finland is EU, Bitfury should explicitly state two prices, one with VAT for EU, and one without it for the rest of the world. If some country doesn't have VAT (like USA), good for the buyer.
kwaaak
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 139
Merit: 100


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 11:13:14 AM
 #139

I created a pre-order sheet to keep track of orders a little bit: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1UvowJ1rdvG_ISMLjIGAKZgRVnMCIEeDKO7eOF9lrZjc/viewform

If you'd like to, please participate!
pheaonix
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250


http://casinobitco.in/ A+ customer support


View Profile
July 06, 2013, 12:12:25 PM
 #140

europe guys set up a shipping service to US

not smart at all to alienate 80% of the bitcoin community by not shipping to US

BTC.sx - Leveraged Bitcoin Trading. Simply use Bitcoin to take advantage of a rising or falling Bitcoin price.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 ... 115 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!