Why do you believe God exists?

[af_newbie]

Under all circumstances, I am a free man.  Always was and always will be.

Yes you are a free man. You live in a deterministic universe yet you are free. You fail to see the miracle in that which is your perogrative.

If your child goes to hell after you die and you are already in heaven, would you feel sad that he/she is in pain for eternity?

If not, you are a psychopath as you lack empathy for others especially your own flesh and blood.

If you do, you are better than your God, and you are not in heaven because you feel sad.

Being free is the only sane option to be happy.

[Astargath]

And that's god, obey or be tortured forever in hell. Then again, god from the bible doesn't exist, clearly.

Any existence beyond death is unearned. All we have earned is oblivion. An afterlife would be a gift of grace one we certainly do not deserve.

The difference here is that the robber is taking from you by force weakening maybe even killing you.

An afterlife would be the opposite process an unearned gift making you stronger and extending your existence long after it would have run its natural course into oblivion.

An all knowing, all powerful all loving god would be able to make everyone believe in him (without forcing them either).

God could certainly could have done that. He could also have made a universe without any freedom where everything just played itself out in a predetermined manner like a rock falling to the ground.

Instead he created an ordered open universe where everything seems possible and freedom is maximized. Great error is permitted and belief is not compelled. That is in my humble opinion a far grander accomplishment.

Scientifically speaking that's not possible. If he created everything, then everything is determined (ask your buddy badecker) so you can't have freedom. Also as I said already, god wouldn't need to take your freedom away to convince you of his existence so this argument is utterly useless. There is simply no reason for an all loving-powerful-knowing god to let people suffer. Not to mention the fact that some people will live and die without ever knowing about god. It's a mess, god from the bible is clearly not real. You only need a bit of logic to realize it, really.

[CoinCube]

If your child goes to hell after you die and you are already in heaven, would you feel sad that he/she is in pain for eternity?

That would depend on the nature and purpose of hell. Is it's ultimate purpose torture or rectification punishment or purification.

A constant theme of the Bible is the conversation of evil to good. In Christianity an example of this is the cross. One of the most evil and horrifying torture devices of antiquity transformed into a symbol of hope that indisputably forever altered the trajectory of history.

For this reason and others I favor the rectification/purification perspective.

[af_newbie]

If your child goes to hell after you die and you are already in heaven, would you feel sad that he/she is in pain for eternity?

That would depend on the nature and purpose of hell. Is it's ultimate purpose torture or rectification punishment or purification.

A constant theme of the Bible is the conversation of evil to good. In Christianity an example of this is the cross. One of the most evil and horrifying torture devices of antiquity transformed into a symbol of hope that indisputably forever altered the trajectory of history.

For this reason and others I favor the rectification/purification perspective.

In the lakes of fire?

[BADecker]

If a robber points a gun at you and he asks you to give him your money or die, do you feel like slave? You have a choice, don't you?

Obey or be killed. The choice shared by all slaves throughout history.

And that's god, obey or be tortured forever in hell. Then again, god from the bible doesn't exist, clearly.

You talk from a standpoint of ignorance.

God made everything to work the way it does.

He made metals so that they could be formed by metallurgy into guns. But He also made the metals and metallurgy for other purposes.

God made the materials in gunpowder. He made them to be used for other purposes than gunpowder. But He made them to be used as gunpowder if that's the way a person wants to use them.

It wasn't God's idea for a person to shoot himself in the foot. But if a person does this, he gets the results of shooting himself in the foot.

God made everything for the worship of Himself, God. It's the way things work.

Shoot yourself in the head by not worshiping God, if you want. He gives you that freedom. You might even think that you are blaming God for it, when you use your freedom to shoot yourself in the head. But when you are that stupid, he gains glory even from that... because you are dead, but He and many others know that you freely did it to yourself, using the freedom that He gave you.

[CoinCube]

There is simply no reason for an all loving-powerful-knowing god to let people suffer.

The overwhelming majority of human suffering is induced by the evils of our fellow human beings. It comes about as a result of the human freedom to be evil and make poor choices. This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.

The small remnant of suffering independent of man is the result of our ignorance limited science and lack of knowledge. This portion of suffering naturally trends towards zero over time as knowledge and technology advance.

[BADecker]

If your child goes to hell after you die and you are already in heaven, would you feel sad that he/she is in pain for eternity?

That would depend on the nature and purpose of hell. Is it's ultimate purpose torture or rectification punishment or purification.

A constant theme of the Bible is the conversation of evil to good. In Christianity an example of this is the cross. One of the most evil and horrifying torture devices of antiquity transformed into a symbol of hope that indisputably forever altered the trajectory of history.

For this reason and others I favor the rectification/purification perspective.

In the lakes of fire?

No! The lake of fire is for dissolution. You are beyond purification if you get to the lake of fire.

God won't put up with your rebellion forever. There will come a time when He will say "Enough." That time will come for you if/when you die in your rejection of Him.

What do they do with old, worn-out, junkyard cars? They load them up on a truck, and take them back to the smelters, to melt them down and get the metal out of them to use in new cars and other equipment.

The lake of fire is the place where junk beings are smelted down to get the material out of them to be used for other purposes.

Change, now, while you still have the chance, before you go into the lake of fire where your essence will be torn apart in the excessive heat, so that the pieces which formerly were you, can be used in other places for other things.

[Astargath]

There is simply no reason for an all loving-powerful-knowing god to let people suffer.

The overwhelming majority of human suffering is induced by the evils of our fellow human beings. It comes about as a result of the human freedom to be evil and make poor choices. This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.

The small remnant of suffering independent of man is the result of our ignorance limited science and lack of knowledge. This portion of suffering naturally trends towards zero over time as knowledge and technology advance.

''This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.'' Yes it can, that's such a bullshit argument. I can think of 10 ways to reduce suffering right now, without tampering with freedom. For instance, why even allow diseases in the first place? God could have prevented them all along (that's not tampering with freedom) Also birth defects and so on. The only thing god wouldn't be able to prevent are things like, someone shooting someone because that's his choice, however since he will send you to hell for it, he could just prevent that from happening in the moment. He is tampering with your freedom when he sends you to hell, isn't he? So why not stop that before it even happens?

Please, use some logic.

[BADecker]

There is simply no reason for an all loving-powerful-knowing god to let people suffer.

The overwhelming majority of human suffering is induced by the evils of our fellow human beings. It comes about as a result of the human freedom to be evil and make poor choices. This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.

The small remnant of suffering independent of man is the result of our ignorance limited science and lack of knowledge. This portion of suffering naturally trends towards zero over time as knowledge and technology advance.

''This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.'' Yes it can, that's such a bullshit argument. I can think of 10 ways to reduce suffering right now, without tampering with freedom. For instance, why even allow diseases in the first place? God could have prevented them all along (that's not tampering with freedom) Also birth defects and so on. The only thing god wouldn't be able to prevent are things like, someone shooting someone because that's his choice, however since he will send you to hell for it, he could just prevent that from happening in the moment. He is tampering with your freedom when he sends you to hell, isn't he? So why not stop that before it even happens?

Please, use some logic.

Never shooting someone to death is never something that keeps a person out of Hell. Shooting a person to death is never something that sends a person to Hell.

There is only one thing that keeps a person out of Hell. Lacking that one thing is the only reason why people go to Hell. What is that one thing? It is believing in Jesus salvation.

Shooting someone, or voluntary sinning in other ways, are all things that wear on Jesus salvation faith. Enough voluntary sinning by a person of faith, may destroy that faith in him. But it is the faith in Jesus salvation, or lack of it, that determines a person's Heaven/Hell final position.

[af_newbie]

If your child goes to hell after you die and you are already in heaven, would you feel sad that he/she is in pain for eternity?

That would depend on the nature and purpose of hell. Is it's ultimate purpose torture or rectification punishment or purification.

A constant theme of the Bible is the conversation of evil to good. In Christianity an example of this is the cross. One of the most evil and horrifying torture devices of antiquity transformed into a symbol of hope that indisputably forever altered the trajectory of history.

For this reason and others I favor the rectification/purification perspective.

In the lakes of fire?

No! The lake of fire is for dissolution. You are beyond purification if you get to the lake of fire.

God won't put up with your rebellion forever. There will come a time when He will say "Enough." That time will come for you if/when you die in your rejection of Him.

What do they do with old, worn-out, junkyard cars? They load them up on a truck, and take them back to the smelters, to melt them down and get the metal out of them to use in new cars and other equipment.

The lake of fire is the place where junk beings are smelted down to get the material out of them to be used for other purposes.

Change, now, while you still have the chance, before you go into the lake of fire where your essence will be torn apart in the excessive heat, so that the pieces which formerly were you, can be used in other places for other things.

Are you sure you are reading this from the Bible?

Revelation 20:13–15
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Maybe you are confusing it with Dante's The Divine Comedy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Comedy

You are confusing the two literary works. 

It is all funny as we are really discussing what is the color of the Snow White's hat. 

Both works are that, stories.  Why you cannot see that in the 21st century is beyond me? WFT?  Who are you, people?

[sirazimuth]

God made everything to work the way it does.

He made metals so that they could be formed by metallurgy into guns. But He also made the metals and metallurgy for other purposes.

God made the materials in gunpowder. He made them to be used for other purposes than gunpowder. But He made them to be used as gunpowder if that's the way a person wants to use them.

It wasn't God's idea for a person to shoot himself in the foot. But if a person does this, he gets the results of shooting himself in the foot.

God made everything for the worship of Himself, God. It's the way things work.

Shoot yourself in the head by not worshiping God, if you want. He gives you that freedom. You might even think that you are blaming God for it, when you use your freedom to shoot yourself in the head. But when you are that stupid, he gains glory even from that... because you are dead, but He and many others know that you freely did it to yourself, using the freedom that He gave you.

No! The lake of fire is for dissolution. You are beyond purification if you get to the lake of fire.

God won't put up with your rebellion forever. There will come a time when He will say "Enough." That time will come for you if/when you die in your rejection of Him.

What do they do with old, worn-out, junkyard cars? They load them up on a truck, and take them back to the smelters, to melt them down and get the metal out of them to use in new cars and other equipment.

The lake of fire is the place where junk beings are smelted down to get the material out of them to be used for other purposes.

Change, now, while you still have the chance, before you go into the lake of fire where your essence will be torn apart in the excessive heat, so that the pieces which formerly were you, can be used in other places for other things.

BADecker's favorite method to illustrate his nonsense.
make a bunch of silly assertions without a shred of evidence to back them up.
like how the phuk does he know all this shit?
great examples of the fallacy of proof by assertion.
pious folk seem to do this constantly.

[Astargath]

There is simply no reason for an all loving-powerful-knowing god to let people suffer.

The overwhelming majority of human suffering is induced by the evils of our fellow human beings. It comes about as a result of the human freedom to be evil and make poor choices. This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.

The small remnant of suffering independent of man is the result of our ignorance limited science and lack of knowledge. This portion of suffering naturally trends towards zero over time as knowledge and technology advance.

''This suffering could not be excised without removing the human capacity for choice.'' Yes it can, that's such a bullshit argument. I can think of 10 ways to reduce suffering right now, without tampering with freedom. For instance, why even allow diseases in the first place? God could have prevented them all along (that's not tampering with freedom) Also birth defects and so on. The only thing god wouldn't be able to prevent are things like, someone shooting someone because that's his choice, however since he will send you to hell for it, he could just prevent that from happening in the moment. He is tampering with your freedom when he sends you to hell, isn't he? So why not stop that before it even happens?

Please, use some logic.

Never shooting someone to death is never something that keeps a person out of Hell. Shooting a person to death is never something that sends a person to Hell.

There is only one thing that keeps a person out of Hell. Lacking that one thing is the only reason why people go to Hell. What is that one thing? It is believing in Jesus salvation.

Shooting someone, or voluntary sinning in other ways, are all things that wear on Jesus salvation faith. Enough voluntary sinning by a person of faith, may destroy that faith in him. But it is the faith in Jesus salvation, or lack of it, that determines a person's Heaven/Hell final position.

Well then god is an absolute idiot. How can your brain actually write that and be ok with it? I can kill as many people as I want as long as I accept jesus salvation? Of course I would accept jesus salvation, knowing I'm going to hell if not or jail, why would a murderer not repent? It seems his best choice. God is an idiot.

[ATMD]

Well then god is an absolute idiot. How can your brain actually write that and be ok with it? I can kill as many people as I want as long as I accept jesus salvation? Of course I would accept jesus salvation, knowing I'm going to hell if not or jail, why would a murderer not repent? It seems his best choice. God is an idiot.

He was being sarcastic.

[Astargath]

Well then god is an absolute idiot. How can your brain actually write that and be ok with it? I can kill as many people as I want as long as I accept jesus salvation? Of course I would accept jesus salvation, knowing I'm going to hell if not or jail, why would a murderer not repent? It seems his best choice. God is an idiot.

He was being sarcastic.

You are new here, he was not sarcastic. I can guarantee you that.

[ATMD]

Well then god is an absolute idiot. How can your brain actually write that and be ok with it? I can kill as many people as I want as long as I accept jesus salvation? Of course I would accept jesus salvation, knowing I'm going to hell if not or jail, why would a murderer not repent? It seems his best choice. God is an idiot.

He was being sarcastic.

You are new here, he was not sarcastic. I can guarantee you that.

Hahaha, maybe you are right. I can't know for sure.

[BADecker]

Never shooting someone to death is never something that keeps a person out of Hell. Shooting a person to death is never something that sends a person to Hell.

There is only one thing that keeps a person out of Hell. Lacking that one thing is the only reason why people go to Hell. What is that one thing? It is believing in Jesus salvation.

Shooting someone, or voluntary sinning in other ways, are all things that wear on Jesus salvation faith. Enough voluntary sinning by a person of faith, may destroy that faith in him. But it is the faith in Jesus salvation, or lack of it, that determines a person's Heaven/Hell final position.

Well then god is an absolute idiot. How can your brain actually write that and be ok with it? I can kill as many people as I want as long as I accept jesus salvation? Of course I would accept jesus salvation, knowing I'm going to hell if not or jail, why would a murderer not repent? It seems his best choice. God is an idiot.

Seems like you can't read very well. Voluntarily doing evil wears on Jesus salvation faith. In other words, if you truly understand and have Jesus salvation faith, you will stop sinning. At least you will reduce your voluntary sinning to an absolute minimum. In other words, voluntary sinning and Jesus salvation faith are mutually exclusive... after a time.

So, we see again, that you are attempting to cast doubt into the hearts of those who are saved. Why do you do this? You are simply a child of the devil. No animosity against you. Simply pointing out a fact. But you can change if you want...

[af_newbie]

Never shooting someone to death is never something that keeps a person out of Hell. Shooting a person to death is never something that sends a person to Hell.

There is only one thing that keeps a person out of Hell. Lacking that one thing is the only reason why people go to Hell. What is that one thing? It is believing in Jesus salvation.

Shooting someone, or voluntary sinning in other ways, are all things that wear on Jesus salvation faith. Enough voluntary sinning by a person of faith, may destroy that faith in him. But it is the faith in Jesus salvation, or lack of it, that determines a person's Heaven/Hell final position.

Well then god is an absolute idiot. How can your brain actually write that and be ok with it? I can kill as many people as I want as long as I accept jesus salvation? Of course I would accept jesus salvation, knowing I'm going to hell if not or jail, why would a murderer not repent? It seems his best choice. God is an idiot.

Seems like you can't read very well. Voluntarily doing evil wears on Jesus salvation faith. In other words, if you truly understand and have Jesus salvation faith, you will stop sinning. At least you will reduce your voluntary sinning to an absolute minimum. In other words, voluntary sinning and Jesus salvation faith are mutually exclusive... after a time.

So, we see again, that you are attempting to cast doubt into the hearts of those who are saved. Why do you do this? You are simply a child of the devil. No animosity against you. Simply pointing out a fact. But you can change if you want...

I think you will be wearing down your psychiatrist one day.  You are truly crazy, no ifs no buts.  You have lost your mind.

[BADecker]

Ok, I am going to try one more time, since you are slightly retarded.

PLEASE DESCRIBE WHAT YOUR GOD LOOKS LIKE!

Nobody has ever seen God.

...

Yet, someone wrote many books about him/her.

Why don't you believe in Snow White or Santa Claus?

At least with these two characters we know what they look like (or suppose to look like).

With your God, you don't even know what he/she looks like, you have no evidence they exist, yet you believe they exist.

This is beyond being delusional. 

People who believe in God, also have many false beliefs at times. The idea was seeing God with the eyes. Many people have "seen" (understood) God in their minds and hearts. Too bad you have such weak understanding.

Actually, Santa and Snow White have many different appearances. Which one is right?

How in the words dense are you?

[BADecker]

Never shooting someone to death is never something that keeps a person out of Hell. Shooting a person to death is never something that sends a person to Hell.

There is only one thing that keeps a person out of Hell. Lacking that one thing is the only reason why people go to Hell. What is that one thing? It is believing in Jesus salvation.

Shooting someone, or voluntary sinning in other ways, are all things that wear on Jesus salvation faith. Enough voluntary sinning by a person of faith, may destroy that faith in him. But it is the faith in Jesus salvation, or lack of it, that determines a person's Heaven/Hell final position.

Well then god is an absolute idiot. How can your brain actually write that and be ok with it? I can kill as many people as I want as long as I accept jesus salvation? Of course I would accept jesus salvation, knowing I'm going to hell if not or jail, why would a murderer not repent? It seems his best choice. God is an idiot.

Seems like you can't read very well. Voluntarily doing evil wears on Jesus salvation faith. In other words, if you truly understand and have Jesus salvation faith, you will stop sinning. At least you will reduce your voluntary sinning to an absolute minimum. In other words, voluntary sinning and Jesus salvation faith are mutually exclusive... after a time.

So, we see again, that you are attempting to cast doubt into the hearts of those who are saved. Why do you do this? You are simply a child of the devil. No animosity against you. Simply pointing out a fact. But you can change if you want...

I think you will be wearing down your psychiatrist one day.  You are truly crazy, no ifs no buts.  You have lost your mind.

Stay as calm as you are. I mean, you can't even explain to yourself what you are talking about. Remaining calm might help to keep you out of the insane asylums... or are you posting from there?

[ATMD]

Lol at the level of joking in this thread, we are turning into a comedy club