[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING***

[nullspot]

False. False. False.  The price and time difference is already there advertised in Bitfury store so simply asking to be executed. Sorry if you took it as a "punishment" but when you pick the 3-blade razor at the store rather than the 4-blade razor, do you feel punished? No, right? It's just a different product based on what you can afford and expecting different outcomes. The difference here is that times plays a factor as well. I'm not even talking about the difference in hash rates and it's up to Bitfury to that figure out if they want. That is irrelevant to the basic discussion. You are right: we worked on the knowledge that it's a 2-month difference at the time of investment, so yes, it's a  2-month protection gap.
The argument about compensating due to increases in difficulty: difficulty changes applies to all customers equally and in any case, it was never advertised or referred in any way in the description of the products advertised. Neither did Bitfury make any commitments about difficulty at all.  I'm simply focusing on the advertised terms not in imaginary or unrelated aspects. That's it.
Bitfury is not going to ignore my arguments or of any August customers just because of your wishful thinking because guess what?  it's still displayed in their store right now!

So you chose to respond to nothing other than a hypothetical suggestion about difficulty increase (**not given as a demand, but a conceptual reason, relevant given other companies "ROI protection" schemes**), ignoring the clear analogy to the extra h-boards. Nice. Forget the overriding themes of squelching success and entitlement mentality, as if early orders have any claim on later ones, or on what a business decides to do to improve things for customers who arrived after you.

Continuing with such bitter logic, Apple should compensate you if the next revision of the iPhone is released any earlier than exactly 365 days from the old one, because you bought yours expecting a full year head start, getting the maximum use for your $$, compared to the lucky saps who get additional features in their next-gen phone. You factored that year of use into your purchasing decision, and now, horror of horrors, Apple releases the new iPhone 30 days early. Clearly you have been robbed in such a scenario.

The essence of your position is that you lose if someone else benefits, whether or not what you have is altered in any way. That kind of attitude often resorts to protectionism when faced with progress and innovation in the marketplace.

What you propose is that Dave should sit on his hands, even if he has the ability to deliver early, to fulfill some imaginary obligation to the August orders, that the time gap between August 31st and October 31st be maintained. Where in the world is it written, once you have received your August Kit as paid for, that there is any continuing contract or arrangement between such a customer and the manufacturer? You paid, got your order, and if unforseen conditions change over time, where is the obligation to preserve the time gap?

You have no problem dealing with the unforseeable developments of difficulty increases, so why are unforseen shifts in component delivery and fulfillment any different? Why is it ok to be late delivering product, but not early?? No one is demanding compensation for being a few days past the end of August, so in what world does it make sense to demand compensation for a possible early delivery?

[arorts]

snip of back-and-forth

Update

I've added option for UPS Express Saver shipping, and dropped the prices a bit as further october orders will most likely ship in very late october. Those who picked first october orders are likely to receive theirs in very early october, if not september.

Regarding invoices: there was a problem on the site. I will need to send invoices manually. You will get an invoice, don't worry.

I need to sleep now. Shanghai awaits tomorrow. I should have more news for you in about 30 hours.

Punin said a few weeks ago that he expects to start shipping in early October if not late September.. I would expect Dave to be working with the same timeframe, but who knows.

snip of back-and-forth

Update

I've added option for UPS Express Saver shipping, and dropped the prices a bit as further october orders will most likely ship in very late october. Those who picked first october orders are likely to receive theirs in very early october, if not september.

Regarding invoices: there was a problem on the site. I will need to send invoices manually. You will get an invoice, don't worry.

I need to sleep now. Shanghai awaits tomorrow. I should have more news for you in about 30 hours.

Punin said a few weeks ago that he expects to start shipping in early October if not late September.. I would expect Dave to be working with the same timeframe, but who knows.

And whatever new products arrive in the future, they will definitely reflect in their prices and terms feedback from most people. I'm pretty sure they won't have the luxury of commanding a large yet arbitrary premium just for a very wide/uncertain gap. Things will get more formalized and become more specific just as some other industry players are starting to do. In any case, Bitfury is way far ahead than any other player in terms of commitment and accountability.

[mtminer]

Whatever they decide, one thing is for sure. They will first work on getting the 200TH network up asap.

  Everyone else already paid.

Is 200TH the original amount or did they double it?

[Sitarow]

Whatever they decide, one thing is for sure. They will first work on getting the 200TH network up asap.

  Everyone else already paid.

Is 200TH the original amount or did they double it?

was doubled.

[mo_mo]

i am waiting anxiously for my 25gh kit ...i am using the flat fee shipping to canada too

[arorts]

False. False. False.  The price and time difference is already there advertised in Bitfury store so simply asking to be executed. Sorry if you took it as a "punishment" but when you pick the 3-blade razor at the store rather than the 4-blade razor, do you feel punished? No, right? It's just a different product based on what you can afford and expecting different outcomes. The difference here is that times plays a factor as well. I'm not even talking about the difference in hash rates and it's up to Bitfury to that figure out if they want. That is irrelevant to the basic discussion. You are right: we worked on the knowledge that it's a 2-month difference at the time of investment, so yes, it's a  2-month protection gap.
The argument about compensating due to increases in difficulty: difficulty changes applies to all customers equally and in any case, it was never advertised or referred in any way in the description of the products advertised. Neither did Bitfury make any commitments about difficulty at all.  I'm simply focusing on the advertised terms not in imaginary or unrelated aspects. That's it.
Bitfury is not going to ignore my arguments or of any August customers just because of your wishful thinking because guess what?  it's still displayed in their store right now!

So you chose to respond to nothing other than a hypothetical suggestion about difficulty increase (**not given as a demand, but a conceptual reason, relevant given other companies "ROI protection" schemes**), ignoring the clear analogy to the extra h-boards. Nice. Forget the overriding themes of squelching success and entitlement mentality, as if early orders have any claim on later ones, or on what a business decides to do to improve things for customers who arrived after you.

Continuing with such bitter logic, Apple should compensate you if the next revision of the iPhone is released any earlier than exactly 365 days from the old one, because you bought yours expecting a full year head start, getting the maximum use for your $$, compared to the lucky saps who get additional features in their next-gen phone. You factored that year of use into your purchasing decision, and now, horror of horrors, Apple releases the new iPhone 30 days early. Clearly you have been robbed in such a scenario.

The essence of your position is that you lose if someone else benefits, whether or not what you have is altered in any way. That kind of attitude often resorts to protectionism when faced with progress and innovation in the marketplace.

I said they never indicated any terms regarding h-boards differences in hashrate. I was pretty clear about that.
If you manage to get compensated by Apple in such scenario, good for you! And if you didn't perhaps either you were unable to negotiate or you simply failed to read their T&C because I can bet you that's already covered! Apple is not that dumb to leave out from their contract agreements something as common as that. Go and read it yourself and let me know if you manage to get something out of it. Apple will give you something (if you prove it). . In this case, we are talking about how 2 products are relatively priced to each other. Your Apple scenario is irrelevant.

Wake up, dude.  Do you think that in this industry prices of products with same specs delivered later are cheaper just because Dave is in good mood?? It's purely an economics decision whether you feel offended or not. Make no mistake son. This IS a zero-sum game where people's actions affect others' because in this case, yes, they do. This is pure capitalism no matter how Buddhist or friendly you are so you need to stop taking things personal.

I'm dying to know what innovation getting products earlier would bring so as to offset their price. Has nothing to do with protectionism. Don't overcomplicate it: just basic Price+Terms. That's it.

[nullspot]

False. False. False.  The price and time difference is already there advertised in Bitfury store so simply asking to be executed. Sorry if you took it as a "punishment" but when you pick the 3-blade razor at the store rather than the 4-blade razor, do you feel punished? No, right? It's just a different product based on what you can afford and expecting different outcomes. The difference here is that times plays a factor as well. I'm not even talking about the difference in hash rates and it's up to Bitfury to that figure out if they want. That is irrelevant to the basic discussion. You are right: we worked on the knowledge that it's a 2-month difference at the time of investment, so yes, it's a  2-month protection gap.
The argument about compensating due to increases in difficulty: difficulty changes applies to all customers equally and in any case, it was never advertised or referred in any way in the description of the products advertised. Neither did Bitfury make any commitments about difficulty at all.  I'm simply focusing on the advertised terms not in imaginary or unrelated aspects. That's it.
Bitfury is not going to ignore my arguments or of any August customers just because of your wishful thinking because guess what?  it's still displayed in their store right now!

So you chose to respond to nothing other than a hypothetical suggestion about difficulty increase (**not given as a demand, but a conceptual reason, relevant given other companies "ROI protection" schemes**), ignoring the clear analogy to the extra h-boards. Nice. Forget the overriding themes of squelching success and entitlement mentality, as if early orders have any claim on later ones, or on what a business decides to do to improve things for customers who arrived after you.

Continuing with such bitter logic, Apple should compensate you if the next revision of the iPhone is released any earlier than exactly 365 days from the old one, because you bought yours expecting a full year head start, getting the maximum use for your $$, compared to the lucky saps who get additional features in their next-gen phone. You factored that year of use into your purchasing decision, and now, horror of horrors, Apple releases the new iPhone 30 days early. Clearly you have been robbed in such a scenario.

The essence of your position is that you lose if someone else benefits, whether or not what you have is altered in any way. That kind of attitude often resorts to protectionism when faced with progress and innovation in the marketplace.

I said they never indicated any terms regarding h-boards differences in hashrate. I was pretty clear about that.
If you manage to get compensated by Apple in such scenario, good for you! And if you didn't perhaps either you were unable to negotiate or you simply failed to read their T&C because I can bet you that's already covered! Apple is not that dumb to leave out from their contract agreements something as common as that. Go and read it yourself and let me know if you manage to get something out of it. Apple will give you something (if you prove it). . In this case, we are talking about how 2 products are relatively priced to each other. Your Apple scenario is irrelevant.

Wake up, dude.  Do you think that in this industry prices of products with same specs delivered later are cheaper just because Dave is in good mood?? It's purely an economics decision whether you feel offended or not. Make no mistake son. This IS a zero-sum game where people's actions affect others' because in this case, yes, they do. This is pure capitalism no matter how Buddhist or friendly you are so you need to stop taking things personal.

I'm dying to know what innovation getting products earlier would bring so as to offset their price. Has nothing to do with protectionism. Don't overcomplicate it: just basic Price+Terms. That's it.

I never said you mentioned terms about H-boards - that was *my* analogy, the significance of which has somehow escaped you (as you have not addressed the comparison). What you proposed (compensating August orders for earlier October deliveries) is not capitalism. And the terms do not state: no one who orders later batches are allowed to get theirs earlier. The terms for august orders are august delivery. End of terms. If october is a month late, has no bearing on august orders. Thus neither does any amount early. You keep trying to make it a question of "honoring terms". But your terms end when you take delivery of your product.

You are not making an economics argument, and I am not proposing any buddhist feel-good stuff. I'm saying if October shows up early, you have no claim (which you keep ignoring, instead playing semantics and making broad statements). That's capitalism. Someone gets a better deal than you, tough beans. Thus my example of the H-boards, which obviously are a "bonus" to the August orders, and no one else is complaining the terms have been violated because someone else got extra. You're selectively adding certain things (time gap) to your perception of the terms.

[jspielberg]

It doesn't sound like the extra h-boards were needed for the August starter kits as Dave had a fair number of 25GH performing boards.  Maybe I was misreading his update.

[jimrome]

It doesn't sound like the extra h-boards were needed for the August starter kits as Dave had a fair number of 25GH performing boards.  Maybe I was misreading his update.

That was my impression as well.


By the way: has anyone's order status changed to "Shipped" yet?

[jspielberg]

Mine has shipped... Flat rate delivery. Tracking shows movement from muame, Ohio.

Edit: Unrelated package wishful thinking.  No tracking info yet from MPB, just store status update to "Ready to Ship"

[jimrome]

Mine has shipped... Flat rate delivery. Tracking shows movement from muame, Ohio.

Did yours only go to "ready for shipping" today though, or was it shipped on Saturday?

[arorts]

I never said you mentioned terms about H-boards - that was *my* analogy, the significance of which has somehow escaped you (as you have not addressed the comparison). What you proposed (compensating August orders for earlier October deliveries) is not capitalism. And the terms do not state: no one who orders later batches are allowed to get theirs earlier. The terms for august orders are august delivery. End of terms. If october is a month late, has no bearing on august orders. Thus neither does any amount early. You keep trying to make it a question of "honoring terms". But your terms end when you take delivery of your product.

You are not making an economics argument, and I am not proposing any buddhist feel-good stuff. I'm saying if October shows up early, you have no claim (which you keep ignoring, instead playing semantics and making broad statements). That's capitalism. Someone gets a better deal than you, tough beans. Thus my example of the H-boards, which obviously are a "bonus" to the August orders, and no one else is complaining the terms have been violated because someone else got extra. You're selectively adding certain things (time gap) to your perception of the terms.

It's all about economics cause it's about the incremental "value" obtained after paying a premium. Only irrational people would say nothing if say October orders end up shipping next week. In that case why the premium for? By your argument then future orders could just say "delivered anytime" without having absolutely any bearing on price paid for initial orders? Rubbish. This is neither how's advertised nor a $11k f*ing Vegas gamble. Will have to agree to disagree this time :-)

[jspielberg]

Ready to ship today... No status changes over the weekend.

[jimrome]

Ready to ship today... No status changes over the weekend.

Weird.. I even sprung for the expedited shipping. Hopefully it's just that they haven't gotten around to updating my order status

 (yeah right)

[-Redacted-]

Expedited shipping is a method of shipping, not expedited handling.  

No status change here for orders #76 or #78 - still "ready to ship"  

[xstr8guy]

Order ID: #18X  , 5 units, paid express.  
I will assume we are at 50+ now in the queue.

I am very excited.


Very Respectfully,

GN

Hey Dave, any chance you'll ship my #19x Starter Kit for this round?  I just missed the August cutoff.  

I imagine there were a few cancellations and it sure would be swell to get bumped up a bit.

Hey, it's worth a try!

[Swimmer63]

#12 ready to ship

[zurg]

So theoretically all the "ready to ship" should have shipped last night.
They just were to busy to actually add tracking numbers as well as change status after the fact.

I am trying to get ahold of somebody here at work that has UPS Quantum view.
Funny, how I have admin privileges in it but cant actually view anything, lol.
Ehhh... hope we'll know something soon.

[zurg]

Well, I got bad news for me at least.
I finally was able to get into the UPS Quantum View and see nothing incoming but a few other irrelevant packages today.
Nothing is showing for tomorrow either., so looks like it wasn't shipped out.

[bkpduke]

I sent a FedEx label for overnight shipping, and it does not show it has been scanned yet.  So I doubt anything went out yesterday.  This is for order 2x.