[ANN] US/North American Bitfury sales NEW STOCK ***NOW SHIPPING***

[RoadStress]

http://www.coindesk.com/coinseed-5m-investment-bitfury-mining/

The board design looks interesting and likely is based on the strings design.

1550 GH/s for 5 mil$? WTF?

[allinvain]

http://www.coindesk.com/coinseed-5m-investment-bitfury-mining/

The board design looks interesting and likely is based on the strings design.

1550 GH/s for 5 mil$? WTF?

That can't be their total, no way!

[Beans]

I don't care who sends my refund, but someone needs to get off their ass. 17k dollars is way to much money to be pulling this crap. The last time I heard from Dave was mid November when I told him to refund my orders. So I don't want to hear some take it up with Dave BS.


This was the last email you sent me regarding my refund. Dated Dec 30th.

I pulled up the orders and sent them to Dave to get the ball rolling. Since you’re nearby, I’m sure you’ll hear from him pretty soon.


Thanks!

-Jason

[superduh]

PSA regarding latest institutional purchase from MBP.

to be honest - this is spells the end of megabigpower's retail arm.
1) besides self mining!
2) and besides selling millions of dollars of equipment at "wholesale/discounted" pricing!
3) the costs for any retail purchase are too high, and what's the point of competing with 1) and 2) when it's the same company doing 1,2,3

hence. today is the day when people should realize that any RETAIL purchase from MBP is like throwing your money into the toilet (or sending bitcoins off into oblivion). please, leave the sympathy to a min unless you have some valid points.

[allinvain]

PSA regarding latest institutional purchase from MBP.

to be honest - this is spells the end of megabigpower's retail arm.
1) besides self mining!
2) and besides selling millions of dollars of equipment at "wholesale/discounted" pricing!
3) the costs for any retail purchase are too high, and what's the point of competing with 1) and 2) when it's the same company doing 1,2,3

hence. today is the day when people should realize that any RETAIL purchase from MBP is like throwing your money into the toilet (or sending bitcoins off into oblivion). please, leave the sympathy to a min unless you have some valid points.

No sympathy from me. It is totally true.

[allinvain]

No, bfgminer does not display nor log chip status. It just tries to continually auto-tune the chips.

What's your assessment as to how well it auto tunes versus chain miner?

Mine is that it is more stable but at about 10% less hashing speed, although this is just eyeballing it and excludes a few factors.

I don't think its better than a human tuning the chips. For example it seems that bfgminer does not know when it should turn some chips off completely. Luke - it's creator - answered me with "why would you want to turn the chips off anyways". I think he does not really know how these bitfury miners really work at the hardware level. I suggested he'd talk with punin, cscape, or the mysterious Russian/Ukranian guy who designed the chips.

[Unacceptable]

http://www.coindesk.com/coinseed-5m-investment-bitfury-mining/

The board design looks interesting and likely is based on the strings design.

Yep,money talks    Centralization is coming & it's NOT about faster transaction times (BTC is "throttled" @ 6 blocks per hour no matter what).......it's about PROFIT.......oh well,Thanks MBP 

[Biomech]

Also, Antminers are not currently for sale from stock.  And wasn't the 2.65BTC price just an introductory offer from the new BitMain website and limited to only the first 30 units sold?

No, first 30 units were priced at 2.40.

At current price and BTC/USD ratio, a full rig will not break-even.

spiccioli

Why do people always insist on offering that same piece of "advice" over and over again?

If I had heeded that advice I wouldn't currently have 2THs of mining gear with another 4THs+ preordered mining gear.  All of this has been paid for (with the exception of the first 200GHs or so) from the BTC I mined.  And I still have approximately $20,000 worth of BTC left in my wallet.

And no, I wouldn't have even more if I had bought and held BTC instead.  I tried doing that and I failed miserably.  Like most people, I panicked at the first dip and lost a good chunk of my modest investment, lol.  "Buy and hold" isn't in my nature.  I'm a miner and proud!

Give this man a cigar! Plus many.

I'm a miner by nature. In the 80's it was real gold. Made a bit of money at it, had a blast. Probably spent more on gas, explosives, and equipment than the gold justified. Wouldn't change it for the world, unless that change was hitting the mother lode.

Digital mining? Same deal. It's what I enjoy. My monetary profit is secondary to the emotional profit. It's worth it. I AM making money. Not a great deal at the moment, but enough to justify it from an accountant's perspective. I'm not an accountant and don't give a tinker's damn about their bean counting perspective. Prudent men do nothing, ever. It's another word for "coward".

[Biomech]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

Please think of ROI in BTC.... not in fiat.

The point is spending BTC now and you're not gonna get back that amount of BTC. Price goes up, your stash value goes up, contrast to mining.... price goes up, difficulty will continue to rise due to noobs, your mining gear's value goes down, getting harder to get back that initial BTC.

What i've learned since mining is that simply buying BTC and hold would gain alot more.

I think of ROI as a Return On Investment, because that's what it means. The formula is somewhat simple, the data are not. But your oversimplifcation, which I see all the time here, is ridiculous on it's face and even more so if you analyze it in depth.

Let's look at reality, shall we? If you are mining or buying BTC, you absolutely ARE BETTING ON IT'S EXCHANGE RATE. The only way this would not be true is if you are deluding yourself into thinking that bitcoin will replace the Dollar or the Euro as a reserve currency on the large scale in the near future. If you are holding that delusion, I'm sorry. It's a nice fantasy, but short of the utter collapse of either of those currencies, it isn't going to happen.

Thus this game is one of exchange. You hold in hopes that the exchange will rise. You generate coins on the same hope.

If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit. Not merely a ROI, but an actual, spendable, tradeable profit. The form it takes is truly irrelevant, unless you are beholden to some sort of cult mentality. Me, I trade BTC for dollars on the high side and dollars for BTC on the low side. I also will trade anything of value for anything else of value. This is the nature of trade. Supply, demand, and the differential betwixt them. Purchasing power trumps numerical value or labels.

Yeah, I'd like to see the world get away from government fiat monies. And eventually, it will. Or at least they will have a lot of open competition. But while that's a nice dream and even a worthy goal, I live in the now, and so do you. Plan for the future, of course, but base your plans on the real, not what you think "ought" to be.

[superduh]

I honestly have no idea what you're saying.  I'll just keep mining BTC and buying more gear.  And when I've had enough, I'll sell my ASICs for even more profit.  But thanks for trying!  

Super,
Good luck!
Let us hope that you have no idea what i am talking about because my English is not native, not because you are refusing to understand what is all about.

Best

A bit of both, I guess.  

Just curious... why do people like you feel the need to post this "you'll never ROI" nonsense in the Custom Hardware forum when there's a whole section devoted to Mining Speculation.

Because I want a fair price and the only way to get it is to stop paying the ridiculous amounts for the EOF hardware. Only way this to happen is to try to convince people like you. That is why I am posting occasionally here and there. Please do excuse me for that, but all this nonce is leading us to nowhere.

People have been saying that from the beginning.  If you go back and look at early 2011, when I started GPU mining whether I came out ahead mining or buying bitcoin depends on when I would have bought them.  I made way more BTC from GPU mining then I would have from if I had just bought bitcoin for around $5-10.  unfortunately I ended up selling a lot of those bitcoins around $10...  I did still make a pretty big USD profit, though and I had enough bitcoin left over for a B2 Avalon, which again more then paid for itself.

The thing is, I made most of my bitcoins in the long phase where difficulty leveled off before the first ASICs hit the network. Eventually the same thing is likely going to happen with ASIC miners, margins are already getting pretty thin, but the difficulty is going to have to go up a long way before they're unable to pay for their own electricity, and when prices go up the margins on that electricity go up as well.  So for example, my Avalon is probably still making about $15/day, while using about $1.26 in power. So, even though the difficulty has gone way up, the usable life has been extended.

Please think of ROI in BTC.... not in fiat.

The point is spending BTC now and you're not gonna get back that amount of BTC. Price goes up, your stash value goes up, contrast to mining.... price goes up, difficulty will continue to rise due to noobs, your mining gear's value goes down, getting harder to get back that initial BTC.

What i've learned since mining is that simply buying BTC and hold would gain alot more.

I think of ROI as a Return On Investment, because that's what it means. The formula is somewhat simple, the data are not. But your oversimplifcation, which I see all the time here, is ridiculous on it's face and even more so if you analyze it in depth.



If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit. Not merely a ROI, but an actual, spendable, tradeable profit. The form it takes is truly irrelevant, unless you are beholden to some sort of cult mentality. Me, I trade BTC for dollars on the high side and dollars for BTC on the low side. I also will trade anything of value for anything else of value. This is the nature of trade. Supply, demand, and the differential betwixt them. Purchasing power trumps numerical value or labels.

o please, not "this again". advice and opinions that make NO economic sense passed off as sound advice. just cause you like "mining" whatever crap you like mining doesn't mean that it makes FINANCIAL sense doing so. just keep it at that. hell, some people will dig a hole in the ground for free just for fun. would you ever mine 1 lb of gold. give it away as an investment. get 1 oz of gold back in the future and be happy that the nominal/relative price of gold is up?! fuck no. you went from having 1lb of gold to 1 oz of gold. the same SIMPLE economic principle applies here irrespective of what a person enjoys doing for "fun and gratification".
losing money, losing "commodity" losing makes no sense. you buy equipment in bitcoins that generate bitcoins. what's the point of that machine will yield you LESS bitcoins than you bought it with. the value of 1 bitcoin doesn't matter at all.
maybe that's why the market prices that make no sense keep being floated around - either people don't care or they just don't get it

[Keefe]

There are two kinds of miners in the world: those who think 1 BTC in the future is worth 2 BTC in their wallet now, and those who don't.

[allinvain]

What in the heck are you guys thinking?!? Have you ever even tried the currency exchange game?

Please explain to me how spending say 110 in the past say for a BFL single to have it mine maybe 10 or say 15 btc over it's lifetime EVER EVER going to be a profit?! Why is mining better than buying and holding on to the coins? The only way mining will ever be worth it is if you paid with fiat. Then and only then you are truly betting on the exchange rate of btc -ie you are long BTC to use trader speak. So if the exchange rate keeps on going up and up even if the hardware only mines less than what your fiat bought you in btc terms at the time you purchased the hardware then you are still IN PROFIT IN FIAT terms, but then that begs the question why did you even do that. Why not just keep btc that you bought with fiat at whatever price and go long btc. You would've had MORE overall had you not spent it on some digital gold digger that will likely mine less than what you put into it!

Let's be honest here. The main reason we do this is because:

a) we enjoy playing with the technology
b) we have some fetish about mining
c) we are fools cause we think we will actually make a profit in btc terms
d) we are too gutless to trade btc
e) we don't have enough fiat cash to buy hardware so we reinvest or invest btc instead
f) we enjoy making the ASIC mining companies rich

The reality is that you will be outgunned by people with more money than you when it comes to mining.

Why don't any of you do a little test. Buy a miner with X $ and also buy some btc with the SAME $ amount. See in the end which has made you MORE money in $ terms. Just do it.

"If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit"

WTF? Are you really saying this? Tell me honestly, were you drunk when you typed this ?  If you spent $10 for 10 btc and during the time span of a couple years all you got was 1 btc you now have ~$1000. Had you kept that 10 BTC you bought with $10, you would now have $10,000. So in fact you _lost_ the opportunity to gain $9000.

[tom99]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

[xstr8guy]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

[Biomech]

What in the heck are you guys thinking?!? Have you ever even tried the currency exchange game?

Please explain to me how spending say 110 in the past say for a BFL single to have it mine maybe 10 or say 15 btc over it's lifetime EVER EVER going to be a profit?! Why is mining better than buying and holding on to the coins? The only way mining will ever be worth it is if you paid with fiat. Then and only then you are truly betting on the exchange rate of btc -ie you are long BTC to use trader speak. So if the exchange rate keeps on going up and up even if the hardware only mines less than what your fiat bought you in btc terms at the time you purchased the hardware then you are still IN PROFIT IN FIAT terms, but then that begs the question why did you even do that. Why not just keep btc that you bought with fiat at whatever price and go long btc. You would've had MORE overall had you not spent it on some digital gold digger that will likely mine less than what you put into it!

Let's be honest here. The main reason we do this is because:

a) we enjoy playing with the technology
b) we have some fetish about mining
c) we are fools cause we think we will actually make a profit in btc terms
d) we are too gutless to trade btc
e) we don't have enough fiat cash to buy hardware so we reinvest or invest btc instead
f) we enjoy making the ASIC mining companies rich

The reality is that you will be outgunned by people with more money than you when it comes to mining.

Why don't any of you do a little test. Buy a miner with X $ and also buy some btc with the SAME $ amount. See in the end which has made you MORE money in $ terms. Just do it.

"If you invested 10BTC at 10 bucks back a couple years ago to get back 1 BTC today, you made a massive profit"

WTF? Are you really saying this? Tell me honestly, were you drunk when you typed this ?  If you spent $10 for 10 btc and during the time span of a couple years all you got was 1 btc you now have ~$1000. Had you kept that 10 BTC you bought with $10, you would now have $10,000. So in fact you _lost_ the opportunity to gain $9000.

Oh, Jumpin Jeezus. I rarely drink. Yes, I was drunk.

What I meant to say was that if you spent the equivalent of 10btc back a couple of years ago on something that makes you ONE btc today, then you made a massive profit. I think. I seriously only drink about twice a year. See why?

Sorry about that.

[aneutronic]

What in the heck are you guys thinking?!? Have you ever even tried the currency exchange game?

Please explain to me how spending say 110 in the past say for a BFL single to have it mine maybe 10 or say 15 btc over it's lifetime EVER EVER going to be a profit?! Why is mining better than buying and holding on to the coins? The only way mining will ever be worth it is if you paid with fiat. Then and only then you are truly betting on the exchange rate of btc -ie you are long BTC to use trader speak. So if the exchange rate keeps on going up and up even if the hardware only mines less than what your fiat bought you in btc terms at the time you purchased the hardware then you are still IN PROFIT IN FIAT terms, but then that begs the question why did you even do that. Why not just keep btc that you bought with fiat at whatever price and go long btc. You would've had MORE overall had you not spent it on some digital gold digger that will likely mine less than what you put into it!

Let's be honest here. The main reason we do this is because:

a) we enjoy playing with the technology
b) we have some fetish about mining
c) we are fools cause we think we will actually make a profit in btc terms
d) we are too gutless to trade btc
e) we don't have enough fiat cash to buy hardware so we reinvest or invest btc instead
f) we enjoy making the ASIC mining companies rich

The reality is that you will be outgunned by people with more money than you when it comes to mining.

+10

nailed it!

[organofcorti]

<snip>
What I meant to say was that if you spent the equivalent of 10btc back a couple of years ago on something that makes you ONE btc today, then you made a massive profit. I think.
<snip>

If I rephrase that as: "If I gave you 10btc back a couple of years ago and you give me ONE btc today, then I made a massive profit", can you see the problem? Still doesn't work.

[Gator-hex]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

The European side has new stock http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/ if anyone is interested that side of the pond. I don't think they ship to US but maybe you could get a friend to buy and ship for you.

[allinvain]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

The European side has new stock http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/ if anyone is interested that side of the pond. I don't think they ship to US but maybe you could get a friend to buy and ship for you.

Actually they ship anywhere in the world. Even so, they are still overpriced at both shops. At say 25 GH these will not likely pay for themselves. By the way 250 euro is around $337 so they are cheaper than at Dave's shop, but not by much. I guess if you can avoid not paying any duty or taxes it may make more sense to buy them from Punin at his shop.

[organofcorti]

Did Hboard price go up or down for both Version?

The prices have been the same for a few weeks although the discount for 10 V2.2H boards is gone now.  And no rigs for sale, just boards.

The European side has new stock http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/shop/ if anyone is interested that side of the pond. I don't think they ship to US but maybe you could get a friend to buy and ship for you.

Actually they ship anywhere in the world. Even so, they are still overpriced at both shops. At say 25 GH these will not likely pay for themselves. By the way 250 euro is around $337 so they are cheaper than at Dave's shop, but not by much. I guess if you can avoid not paying any duty or taxes it may make more sense to buy them from Punin at his shop.

My current limit for profitability is ~ US$5.10 per Ghps.

Any more than this and you're unlikely to make a complete ROI in the first 3 months - and if you have to bank on mining more than 3 months to make a complete ROI then you can't make any good (reliable) estimates anyway.