Avalon Batch #3 & More

[cmdbill]

Interesting enough there is a refund form on google docs for this. they will be honoring refunds. I did not however receive a refund URL or anything of the like from Bitpay.

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[cmdbill]

Interesting enough there is a refund form on google docs for this. they will be honoring refunds. I did not however receive a refund URL or anything of the like from Bitpay.

Interesting enough there is a refund form on google docs for this. they will be honoring refunds. I did not however receive a refund URL or anything of the like from Bitpay.

Avalon ASIC July Update, Trade-In, Batch #3, Chips and more
What's an update without some photos?



Batch three Refund
Understandably, batch three has been overdue for a few weeks, whilst shipping is due to start Monday, and finish within 2 weeks. Those who do not wish to wait can fill out the form for a refund, please note the deadline for these refunds is before the 14th, once we start shipping we will not be honoring any refunds that gets posted.

Finally caught up
Scaling up production has been problematic for us in the past, but today? No more. The speed which we finished shipping batch #2 which took about 3 weeks (aside from custom issues with Serbia and Germany), batch #3 will be no different, and will be even faster. We modified the module upgrade design so it'll fit both generation 1 and generation 2 case setups, the chips are being moved to shanghai so they may begin to deliver by mid-july, trade-in list has been acquired and cleaned up. ( I hope everyone already have an account on the store. ) The Avalon team are very excited to get these things over with so we may get back to engineering.


Trade-in emails are going out at the same time as this newsletter.
The chips is scheduled to start delivering mid-july in order which they were purchased.
Batch three starts shipping mid-july, expected to finish within 2 weeks as there is no order issues unlike batch #2
Part of batch #3 will have different design as we continue to improve our unit.
Once batch three starts shipping and no problem arises, we will begin taking orders for upgrade modules.
upgrade modules will be in-stock as there is no pre-order, delivery time frame 3-5 days.
Next generation chip is in the works, 55nm will not be very different physically for backward compatibility.
We will make announcement at least 2 month prior of 55nm release so those who purchase our generation one chip will not be in the dark.

[titomane]

Interesting enough there is a refund form on google docs for this. they will be honoring refunds. I did not however receive a refund URL or anything of the like from Bitpay.

You are very fast

[cmdbill]

I am currently speaking to Bitpay to see what can be done about this.

[yeemartin]

finally, there is some updates.

[yeemartin]

Given the hashing power increase rate. if we cannot get batch#3 before Sept. there will be no ROI.

[ryepdx]

I have a ticket open for a refund. Reconsidering now that we have a solid shipping date, though. Probably won't be receiving a refund anyway since I didn't keep my BitPay invoice URL. I figured the receipt I got from Avalon would contain whatever information I needed to do business with them in the future. Silly me. :-/

[greaterninja]

I have a ticket open for a refund. Reconsidering now that we have a solid shipping date, though. Probably won't be receiving a refund anyway since I didn't keep my BitPay invoice URL. I figured the receipt I got from Avalon would contain whatever information I needed to do business with them in the future. Silly me. :-/

I think as long as you can get the blockchain transaction url you should be fine.





They say a few weeks late.  Its several weeks late   10-13+ weeks late is gonna be my estimate.

[ftping]

Given the hashing power increase rate. if we cannot get batch#3 before Sept. there will be no ROI.

Why would you get it in Sept?

He said they're going to start shipping Monday and expect to be done within 2 weeks. Given their history, that may stretch to a month. Even if it does, that only brings us into early August.

Also note that they said some B3s will be compatible with future 55nm modules. Gives me more hope for ongoing ROI.

I never doubted Avalon. They are not BFL. You can't expect constant communication with a Chinese vendor of money generating machines. There have been issues, but I prefer to sit back and laugh at all the tools wasting their time by complaining on this board on a daily basis.

That said, this is very exciting news.

[ryepdx]

Yeah, that's the other problem. I don't have the transaction ID because I'm pretty sure I paid directly from an exchange.  

But again, I'm having second thoughts regarding the refund now. Strange how comforting a solid shipping date can be. I'm just hoping this date, being as late as it is, is solid.

[cmdbill]

Bitpay seems to be unaware of how to find a invoice URL. I am waiting on a response. If you did not recieve an invoice URL there may be a possibility that the coins went somewhere else?! Bitpay is stating they never received my BTC and they do not own the address.

[cmdbill]

http://blockchain.info/fb/1brmsy does anyone have any information on this address which has 44k btc?

[BitSyncom]

Bitpay seems to be unaware of how to find a invoice URL. I am waiting on a response. If you did not recieve an invoice URL there may be a possibility that the coins went somewhere else?! Bitpay is stating they never received my BTC and they do not own the address.

are you trying to refund a batch #2 order?

[cmdbill]

batch #3 order

[BitSyncom]

batch #3 order

odd, all batch #3 order was done through bitpay,

can you fill the form out with the bitcoin transaction ID from blockchain instead?

[cmdbill]

if you will accept that i can submit it with that

[superduh]

Bitpay seems to be unaware of how to find a invoice URL. I am waiting on a response. If you did not recieve an invoice URL there may be a possibility that the coins went somewhere else?! Bitpay is stating they never received my BTC and they do not own the address.

are you trying to refund a batch #2 order?

please seriously consider refunding a portion of the cost since it was based on ROI and is totally messed up now

[cmdbill]

batch #3 order

odd, all batch #3 order was done through bitpay,

can you fill the form out with the bitcoin transaction ID from blockchain instead?

It is submitted.

[cmdbill]

batch #3 order

odd, all batch #3 order was done through bitpay,

can you fill the form out with the bitcoin transaction ID from blockchain instead?

Bitpay did get in contact with me and was able to supply the Invoice URL.

[mdbssm]

Yifu,

Have you considered offering batch 3 customers a discount on the expansion modules, or perhaps a discount on future 55nm expansion modules, as a token of goodwill given the shipping delays?

[tagada]

I'll second that about a partial refund. I think it's only fair to help compensate for the delay and the resulting worse ROI, since we're pretty far from the difficulty on which the price was based originally.

[dylan186]

yifu,
    I open a ticket #1284 and #1300,but nothing change? The batch #3 will shipping soon,pls help me to deal with the ticket about my batch#3 shipping address .
    thank you

[WinTame2012]

Bitpay seems to be unaware of how to find a invoice URL. I am waiting on a response. If you did not recieve an invoice URL there may be a possibility that the coins went somewhere else?! Bitpay is stating they never received my BTC and they do not own the address.

Same here 
As far as I can remember during Batch #3 ordering process Bitpay URL have could be seen just for a short time and then browser have been redirected to the AVALON shop. So I've never got a chance to grab URL. Nor I ever got payment confirmation letter from the Bitpay. To prove my payment I can provide you with the TXID (I actually did already).

[WinTame2012]

I'll second that about a partial refund. I think it's only fair to help compensate for the delay and the resulting worse ROI, since we're pretty far from the difficulty on which the price was based originally.

+100
I'd be happy with partial refund, too. Say, circa 50 BTC for 4-module unit.

[koob]

Partial refund seems fair to me, as price was calculated to 1month ROI.

[mitak64]

How about a nice discount on purchasing a 4th module ?

[tagada]

How about a nice discount on purchasing a 4th module ?

Then what about those who ordered the 4th module version? I think a refund is fairer to everyone, and since now the ROI will probably take at least 2 or 3 months at best, a 30 to 50% refund does not seem exagerated to me.

[glendall]

Awesome to hear Batch 3 is shipping so soon!

Late "a few weeks" is pretty funny, but whatever

I'm surprised that people would opt for a refund personally. I don't have tons of faith that Metafury and KNC (even though I have shares) will ship when they say. I think Batch 3 won't have a crazy-quick ROI but if you look at running for at least year, it really isn't that bad of a deal.

But also glad that folks to have that option...thanks Avalon.

[jermwerty]

All you guys whining "partial refund" ... How long did BATCH 1 & 2 Customers wait?  Batch #2 was supposed to be APRIL!  The last units just went out the door.

I got shipping info on my Batch #2, I am more than happy.  I had guessed it might be MAY, worst case JUNE, now its JULY.  So 3 months late, but still happy.

Avalon really did just take ~3 weeks to produce/ship basically all of B#2 once the new line was up.   Batch #3 will definitely be much more "on time" comparatively speaking, I am very surprised there is even an offer of a refund for the whiners.

Put simply:  Should I be asking Avalon for ~250BTC for "lost profits" of my Batch 2 being multiple months late?  Heck no.  Mining has always been YMMV!

[superduh]

All you guys whining "partial refund" ... How long did BATCH 1 & 2 Customers wait?  Batch #2 was supposed to be APRIL!  The last units just went out the door.

I got shipping info on my Batch #2, I am more than happy.  I had guessed it might be MAY, worst case JUNE, now its JULY.  So 3 months late, but still happy.

Avalon really did just take ~3 weeks to produce/ship basically all of B#2 once the new line was up.   Batch #3 will definitely be much more "on time" comparatively speaking, I am very surprised there is even an offer of a refund for the whiners.

Put simply:  Should I be asking Avalon for ~250BTC for "lost profits" of my Batch 2 being multiple months late?  Heck no.  Mining has always been YMMV!

batch 1 was DIRT CHEAP.
batch 2 cost less

[koob]

All you guys whining "partial refund" ... How long did BATCH 1 & 2 Customers wait?  Batch #2 was supposed to be APRIL!  The last units just went out the door.

I got shipping info on my Batch #2, I am more than happy.  I had guessed it might be MAY, worst case JUNE, now its JULY.  So 3 months late, but still happy.

Avalon really did just take ~3 weeks to produce/ship basically all of B#2 once the new line was up.   Batch #3 will definitely be much more "on time" comparatively speaking, I am very surprised there is even an offer of a refund for the whiners.

Put simply:  Should I be asking Avalon for ~250BTC for "lost profits" of my Batch 2 being multiple months late?  Heck no.  Mining has always been YMMV!

Difference is batch#3 prica was calculated on Btc ROI, not like#1 and #2 USD.

[tagada]

All you guys whining "partial refund" ... How long did BATCH 1 & 2 Customers wait?  Batch #2 was supposed to be APRIL!  The last units just went out the door.

I got shipping info on my Batch #2, I am more than happy.  I had guessed it might be MAY, worst case JUNE, now its JULY.  So 3 months late, but still happy.

Avalon really did just take ~3 weeks to produce/ship basically all of B#2 once the new line was up.   Batch #3 will definitely be much more "on time" comparatively speaking, I am very surprised there is even an offer of a refund for the whiners.

Put simply:  Should I be asking Avalon for ~250BTC for "lost profits" of my Batch 2 being multiple months late?  Heck no.  Mining has always been YMMV!

Agreed, but you have to take into account that the price of batch #3 was explicitely based on a 1 month ROI. There's just no way that's going to happen now, and i'm not even counting the chips just from Avalon that will be delivered mid-July (which isn't very fair either, but that's another subject)

[yeemartin]

Given the hashing power increase rate. if we cannot get batch#3 before Sept. there will be no ROI.

Why would you get it in Sept?

He said they're going to start shipping Monday and expect to be done within 2 weeks. Given their history, that may stretch to a month. Even if it does, that only brings us into early August.

Also note that they said some B3s will be compatible with future 55nm modules. Gives me more hope for ongoing ROI.

I never doubted Avalon. They are not BFL. You can't expect constant communication with a Chinese vendor of money generating machines. There have been issues, but I prefer to sit back and laugh at all the tools wasting their time by complaining on this board on a daily basis.

That said, this is very exciting news.

In reality, a lot of people of Batch #3 will see their avalons in Sept. especially Russia, India and other third world counties.

[jermwerty]

batch 1 was DIRT CHEAP.
batch 2 cost less

Both 1 & 2 were ~$1500 USD at the time of purchase when you include shipping costs.

Both B2 and B3 cost about 75BTC, so if you were paying with BTC already mined the reality is B2 people get screwed the most by the delayed "promised vs actual" timeline.

Its fun to pick & choose which numbers to compare, because the wild fluctuations in BTC/USD price throw off the comparisons but the reality is someone who purchased a B3 is getting their unit with much less overall delay than B2.

Difference is batch#3 prica was calculated on Btc ROI, not like#1 and #2 USD.

Who actually bought that line?  I think we all know Avalon decided to finally take some profits on B3 and this was as good as logic as any to keep the BTC price mostly fixed between B2 and B3.

[monkee]

batch 1 was DIRT CHEAP.
batch 2 cost less

Both 1 & 2 were ~$1500 USD at the time of purchase when you include shipping costs.

and batch 3 was about 10k USD for a 4 module

big difference

[cmdbill]

batch 1 was DIRT CHEAP.
batch 2 cost less

Both 1 & 2 were ~$1500 USD at the time of purchase when you include shipping costs.

and batch 3 was about 10k USD for a 4 module

big difference

The exchange rate at the time of batch 3 sales was $75

[BitSyncom]

all refunds are in full, in addition

you must obtain the invoice URL OR your return address must be one of the inputs.

[mdbssm]

all refunds are in full, in addition

you must obtain the invoice URL OR your return address must be one of the inputs.

Fair enough, and thanks for the full refund option.

But for those who still want their avalons, would you not consider either a partial refund or a credit towards other avalon products, given that batch 3 will not return the purchase price in one month but now 3+ months.

[Wayne_Chang]

all refunds are in full, in addition

you must obtain the invoice URL OR your return address must be one of the inputs.

Fair enough, and thanks for the full refund option.

But for those who still want their avalons, would you not consider either a partial refund or a credit towards other avalon products, given that batch 3 will not return the purchase price in one month but now 3+ months.

Fair point. But base on batch#2 experience, they will not.

[dogie]

Guys come on at the "partial refund me bitches". He will find a way to 'compensate' us, whether it be compatibility, first born child (split into shares) or something else. The best decision for his business would be a discount on future purchases.

But then again, he quite rightly wants to go back to hardware development so we can all stfu

[koob]

FYI tradeins just got priced at 17 BTC (which is fair ofc). Batch#3 should really get some discount or addition..

[jspielberg]

Hey Koob -

It looks like my refund request cold feet take back did get the ball rolling after all...

No donations necessary!
Y'all's appreciation is thanks enough.
 

[Wayne_Chang]

FYI tradeins just got priced at 17 BTC (which is fair ofc). Batch#3 should really get some discount or addition..

17btc for 80GHash? It's really good price!

[jermwerty]

FYI tradeins just got priced at 17 BTC (which is fair ofc).

Whoa.  Makes me wonder what the soon-to-be-released upgrade modules will cost?  5-10BTC range?  Has anyone tried to revise their existing B3 order from 3 to 4 modules and gotten a response from Avalon?

[jspielberg]

FYI tradeins just got priced at 17 BTC (which is fair ofc).

Whoa.  Makes me wonder what the soon-to-be-released upgrade modules will cost?  5-10BTC range?  Has anyone tried to revise their existing B3 order from 3 to 4 modules and gotten a response from Avalon?

I seem to recall seeing the official price from the Avalon Store in March when B3 being offered was 28 BTC/module.

[ftping]

Guys come on at the "partial refund me bitches". He will find a way to 'compensate' us, whether it be compatibility, first born child (split into shares) or something else. The best decision for his business would be a discount on future purchases.

But then again, he quite rightly wants to go back to hardware development so we can all stfu

Agree on the discount. But the fact that he is making batch 3 units compatible with future 55nm modules is pretty cool. I don't think it makes up for the delay, but if we could also get a discount on those going forward... That would be perfect.

[mrmerlin25]

Anyone know how you do an address change, as though a partial refund would be nice I need my address changed as I moved as I was sort of hoping that back end of March when I placed the order it would have shipped by start of July but as it hasn't I've moved and need to get it sent to new address.

cheers

[monkee]

the fact that he is making batch 3 units compatible with future 55nm modules is pretty cool.

source??

[candoo]

I cant wait for the batch 3. I have been waiting for sooo long. I hope they ship mine on monday!:) I need that luck

[spiccioli]

batch #3 order

odd, all batch #3 order was done through bitpay,

can you fill the form out with the bitcoin transaction ID from blockchain instead?

BitSyncom,

I've filled it with my transaction ID and a link to my already open ticket on support.avalon-asics.com, I hope this is enough.

Best regards.

spiccioli

[cmdbill]

Just curious as to when refunds will begin to be processed?

[tagada]

Just curious as to when refunds will begin to be processed?

Curious as well. Bumping this in the hope that we'll get some reply.

[jspielberg]

My guess is when they start processing shipments.
When they look up what model to ship for you, they will look up your account to see if there are any tickets for special consideration (delete PSU or please add PSU, etc).
At least... that is how I would do it

[Lasergun]

Just curious as to when refunds will begin to be processed?

Komonec (russian guy) got his refund today https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110584.msg2709517#msg2709517

[turtle83]

the fact that he is making batch 3 units compatible with future 55nm modules is pretty cool.

source??

From their email :-

Next generation chip is in the works, 55nm will not be very different physically for backward compatibility.

But thats not talking about B3, I think its basically saying that the 55nm chips will not be too different from the current ones, so existing designs would probably work with new chip.

[2weiX]

My reply to their newsletter.
Had to try.

Hi,

as much as I am looking forward to seeing process in the shipping department, I would like to voice a my opinion on your handling of the shipping delay in regards to pricing.

the batch 3 units were priced with a certain ROI expection in thought.
of course, that expection is not in any way feasible right now.
would it be too much to ask to backwards-re-adjust the price of the units?
it probably would not even have to represent the true expectional ROI.
most customers would probably accept a refund in the 20% or 25% range, given that batch 3 users only will have a week or two before the custom-built boards with avalon chips start to go live.

you're all engineers, you can do the math.

cheers

[fuxianhui888]

will we get the same amount of btc or same value of btc if we request for refund?
I recall the price at that moment if around $60+

[cmdbill]

will we get the same amount of btc or same value of btc if we request for refund?
I recall the price at that moment if around $60+

About $75 is what the cost was at the time of batch 3 orders. Yufi already stated he would refund in full (BTC). At this point we are all curious as to when this will happen as I know my original refund request was submitted almost 25 days ago?

[A Meteorite]

will we get the same amount of btc or same value of btc if we request for refund?
I recall the price at that moment if around $60+

About $75 is what the cost was at the time of batch 3 orders. Yufi already stated he would refund in full (BTC). At this point we are all curious as to when this will happen as I know my original refund request was submitted almost 25 days ago?

If you want a refund, you have to fill out the new form from the newsletter. I wouldn't count on your 25 day old ticket.

[cmdbill]

Read the first few posts in this thread

[WinTame2012]

@BitSyncom,

Is there any feedback on the refund form submitted? I wonder if you get it and all is ok before it will be too late.

[SebastianJu]

I have a ticket open for a refund. Reconsidering now that we have a solid shipping date, though. Probably won't be receiving a refund anyway since I didn't keep my BitPay invoice URL. I figured the receipt I got from Avalon would contain whatever information I needed to do business with them in the future. Silly me. :-/

I was lucky and kept the thanks-page for all products i bought with avalon. So i could go back one step in history and got the bitpay invoice url.

But i dont understand what the russian guy wrote. He writes something like that he clicked a bitpay link? I only filled the form but dont remember that i could do more than that.

[ailikun]

Well,
What he is saying, is that he did 3 things,
First opened a ticket, at bitsyncom page 20 days ago.

Second, filled the form, that Yifu sended to us.

Third, he somehow managed to press a refund button, on the bitpays page.

After all those manipulations, he received his refund in 4 partitions.
23.5+19+18+18

[SebastianJu]

Well,
What he is saying, is that he did 3 things,
First opened a ticket, at bitsyncom page 20 days ago.

Second, filled the form, that Yifu sended to us.

Third, he somehow managed to press a refund button, on the bitpays page.

After all those manipulations, he received his refund in 4 partitions.
23.5+19+18+18

Thanks. But i cant find a refund button at the invoice url. It only states that i paid in full. Ill wait then. Filled that form 24 hours before so i wonder when something will happen. I mean only 48 hours time until the timeframe is gone. So i hope everything went correctly.

[jspielberg]

all refunds are in full, in addition

you must obtain the invoice URL OR your return address must be one of the inputs.

I don't ever recall seeing a Bitpay invoice URL.
I have the bitcoin client and I can find my transaction ID under transactions -> show transaction details.
So... TXID is easy.

Where do we find our return address?

[sneef]

all refunds are in full, in addition

you must obtain the invoice URL OR your return address must be one of the inputs.

Bitsyncom

Will you please address your Batch 2 buyers with problems in this thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255130

[monkee]

all refunds are in full, in addition

you must obtain the invoice URL OR your return address must be one of the inputs.

I don't ever recall seeing a Bitpay invoice URL.
I have the bitcoin client and I can find my transaction ID under transactions -> show transaction details.
So... TXID is easy.

Where do we find our return address?

i believe it means that he will send refunds only to an address that was involved in sending the coins TO him originally (to prevent fraud)
if the address you sent from when you paid is the same address you want your BTC returned to, you're good
if you paid from mt. gox, or a wallet address you do not own, you are s.o.l., unless you have the invoice URL

but don't quote me

*edit* sort of answered here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242627.msg2719737#msg2719737

[dashingriddler]

While avalon says they will start shipping batch #3 on monday, is there a reason why people are trying to request refunds? seems i m missing something here

[tagada]

While avalon says they will start shipping batch #3 on monday, is there a reason why people are trying to request refunds? seems i m missing something here

ROI is pretty compromised now. With the delay and all those chips they will start shipping at pretty much the same time as batch #3, it's going to be tough mining those 75/100 btc back, even with some overclocking. I'd rather have 100btc in hand now than a "maybe you'll get it back in a year"

[Wayne_Chang]

While avalon says they will start shipping batch #3 on monday, is there a reason why people are trying to request refunds? seems i m missing something here

ROI is pretty compromised now. With the delay and all those chips they will start shipping at pretty much the same time as batch #3, it's going to be tough mining those 75/100 btc back, even with some overclocking. I'd rather have 100btc in hand now than a "maybe you'll get it back in a year"

Correct. And I think they should refund 5% more for the interest because of the delay.

[cmdbill]

-"No Refunds - The Avalon units are made on a built-to-order basis. This means when you place an order, your bitcoins are used to order parts to construct your Avalon Unit. Refunds therefore are impossible. Utilizing a short time frame, batch based, and built-to-order method allows to manage finances properly and reduce risk for all parties. e.g. Avalon ASIC, the re-sellers and the buyers."

There was not a refund option in the first place. Given there have been delays and setbacks, Yufi stated he would refund do to delays.

-"we opened refunding option for batch #3 order since it is quite delayed, batch 2 is shipping and should be finished shipping in the end of the month, then batch #3 is to start right after, we are not refunding chip orders since the coins gets sold and is used to pay for chip order at foundry, canceling is not really possible."

He also stated all refunds will be paid in full (no additional interest).

-"all refunds are in full, in addition, you must obtain the invoice URL OR your return address must be one of the inputs."

You can get your BTC back at least. This was never an option in the first place. I think what everyone is pondering at this point is when this will occur.

[dashingriddler]

While avalon says they will start shipping batch #3 on monday, is there a reason why people are trying to request refunds? seems i m missing something here

ROI is pretty compromised now. With the delay and all those chips they will start shipping at pretty much the same time as batch #3, it's going to be tough mining those 75/100 btc back, even with some overclocking. I'd rather have 100btc in hand now than a "maybe you'll get it back in a year"

Ok, but that will count if those clone manufacturers use those chips effectively. Those miners are no cheaper than 80 btc anyway and many such clones lack built in wifi capabilities etc.
In the worst case u can just auction the avalon once it reaches to your hand in auction section of this form or over ebay and u can easily get one and half times of the btc u could get refunded. Just my thoughts

[mik3]

Yeah i submitted a refund ticket, nobody is going to bid on your avalon more than you paid as ROI is nearly impossible to achieve, especially with all the avalon chips, and ASICminer constantly adding new units online. Not counting all those other new companies.

[troner]

Is there any trusted source which confirms the google refund form ( https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1qYcIa0TQqUDJzvaKrF8mlJFfPRbf_h5d85Ers3wu040/viewform?pli=1 )
is legit and produced by BitSyncom? I got no newsletter via email.

I'm surprised how many people just fill it out without wondering where it came from...

[SebastianJu]

Did some more get a refund or a reaction at all?

[jspielberg]

Did some more get a refund or a reaction at all?

It is unfortunate that the refund mechanism is separate from the store.  
I just submitted a support ticket to confirm my refund request and I realized I had put in the wrong order number yesterday (could see it in the form insta-fill of the browser).   Good thing I double checked. I just corrected it with another refund form entry, but I hope it gets read in time.

[mik3]

Did some more get a refund or a reaction at all?

It was the weekend and it is 5am in China now, I think we should see refunds shortly.

[tolan77]

This has nothing to do with Batch #3 but the Batch 2 countdown thread seems locked so I'm posting here. My friend was one of the earliest orders of batch #2 and has yet to receive anything close to shipping information for his avalon yet they are about to start sending batch 3. He only has a noobie account but his post about it is here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=255910.0 I really hope Yifu or somebody sees this and helps my buddy out.

[cmdbill]

It's the 15th, what happens now? The deadline is over for submitting the form. If anyone receives anymore information please post.

[koob]

It's the 15th, what happens now? The deadline is over for submitting the form. If anyone receives anymore information please post.

Its already 10.00 PM of July 15th in China. Nothing happened  

[mik3]

I hope they are sleeping and dreaming of waking up, issuing partial refunds and sending out all units.

[jspielberg]

Everyone is saying "partial refund"  but what people are really asking for is a discount due to delay.
Correct?

I would think a "partial refund" is when you ordered two units but only get a refund on one of them.

[koob]

Everyone is saying "partial refund"  but what people are really asking for is a discount due to delay.
Correct?

I would think a "partial refund" is when you ordered two units but only get a refund on one of them.

You get discount before paying IMO. After paying it is refund (full or partial).

[mik3]

Whatever the wording, there is no way to make ROI even in 3 months now, and after 3 months things get insane with all these companies new ASICs and chips and what have you. If Bitfury ships their August units, this makes ROI impossible. Add Avalons own chips, Bitfury chips, KNC miners, ASICminer.. things are looking very gloomy. We literally have 1-2 month max to make ROI, after that, if you haven't paid off your unit, you are screwed. With current 73btc min that people paid this seems impossible.

[tempt]

Yea,

it was a lottery and everyone except batch 3 lost. Batch 1 & 2 + Chip orders: winner. Batch 3: loser.

Its that easy.
I myself am also a loser.

[koob]

Yea,

it was a lottery and everyone except batch 3 lost. Batch 1 & 2 + Chip orders: winner. Batch 3: loser.

Its that easy.
I myself am also a loser.

Yeh it was lottery, but not that Avalon will be late or not. We paid more to get miners on time.

[cmdbill]

Bump

[CoinHoarder]

I am in a difficult situation...

A. I can't get a refund, because all Avalon's were bought in a group buy and some people paid 2x what we originally paid to take over shares. These people would be pretty mad if I all the sudden got a refund and they lost half their money.

B. I have paid 3 months rent and bills now at the commercial space where I have planned to host the equipment.

I hope Avalon is happy with themselves, this has been one of the worst business decisions ever for me to decide to host Avalons, due to Avalon's delays. They certainly owe it to their batch 3 customers- I hope they give back somehow, but I am doubtful that they will. Otherwise, Avalon is no different from BFL, and I will never forget about this or buy an Avalon product ever again.

Avalon got greedy and decided to jack the prices up to $10k a machine due to how much money they were making. But, since we get them 3 months late this price is unacceptable now, I don't think Avalon would pay this price themselves. I hope that Avalon and company still have a heart and realize that they screwed batch 3 customers (but again, I am doubtful we will see any recourse).

[Landstander]

Ouch man, that really sucks. Hope you're able to work something out...

[cmdbill]

This whole experience is hard to deal with being a proponent of btc. I told myself I would not get into the hardware race for this reason.

[cmdbill]

I am in a difficult situation...

A. I can't get a refund, because all Avalon's were bought in a group buy and some people paid 2x what we originally paid to take over shares. These people would be pretty mad if I all the sudden got a refund and they lost half their money.

B. I have paid 3 months rent and bills now at the commercial space where I have planned to host the equipment.

I hope Avalon is happy with themselves, this has been one of the worst business decisions ever for me to decide to host Avalons, due to Avalon's delays. They certainly owe it to their batch 3 customers- I hope they give back somehow, but I am doubtful that they will. Otherwise, Avalon is no different from BFL, and I will never forget about this or buy an Avalon product ever again.

Avalon got greedy and decided to jack the prices up to $10k a machine due to how much money they were making. But, since we get them 3 months late this price is unacceptable now, I don't think Avalon would pay this price themselves. I hope that Avalon and company still have a heart and realize that they screwed batch 3 customers (but again, I am doubtful we will see any recourse).

I hope you get a solution. This would be devastating having to deal with.

[Rampion]

Kudos to you Coinhoarder, you did an excellent job for the community and this situation is totally undeserved.

Delays are to be expected, but not when the pricing is based on prediction made according to a delivery date that was delayed by 3 months.

As usual with these damn ASICs, all the risk is on the customers shoulders. In defense of Avalon they are at least offering full refunds (not honored yet), which is not the most desiderable option but at least is acceptable.

[monkee]

I am in a difficult situation...

A. I can't get a refund, because all Avalon's were bought in a group buy and some people paid 2x what we originally paid to take over shares. These people would be pretty mad if I all the sudden got a refund and they lost half their money.

B. I have paid 3 months rent and bills now at the commercial space where I have planned to host the equipment.

I hope Avalon is happy with themselves, this has been one of the worst business decisions ever for me to decide to host Avalons, due to Avalon's delays. They certainly owe it to their batch 3 customers- I hope they give back somehow, but I am doubtful that they will. Otherwise, Avalon is no different from BFL, and I will never forget about this or buy an Avalon product ever again.

Avalon got greedy and decided to jack the prices up to $10k a machine due to how much money they were making. But, since we get them 3 months late this price is unacceptable now, I don't think Avalon would pay this price themselves. I hope that Avalon and company still have a heart and realize that they screwed batch 3 customers (but again, I am doubtful we will see any recourse).

I was very jealous of your group buy. I would love to have organized something like that and was wondering how all of the escrow sellers and group buyers were handling this. I'm sorry you seem to be a bit screwed now but I still have complete faith that Avalon will make things right for batch 3 in one way or another.  Some evidence is that we have heard nothing and as we have been told, that is good news

Avalon lives or dies by bitcoin and we are choosing to live or die by Avalon.  Let it ride.

I wish the Avalon team good luck in getting this batch out the door and getting back to their engineering.  I think their next gen will make kncminer, etc. look like ASIC 1.1, not ASIC 2.0 and I look forward to ordering one... if I make enough BTC back by then.

Did anyone else notice that in the photos in the latest update, the heatsinks seem much closer to the case edges??  Smaller case?  Bigger heatsinks?  Different placement? *speculates*

[SolarSilver]

Did anyone else notice that in the photos in the latest update, the heatsinks seem much closer to the case edges??  Smaller case?  Bigger heatsinks?  Different placement? *speculates*

The motherboard now sits in the back (where it's cooler) and next to the RJ45 connector I no longer see a reset hole, so they might have switched to something like a Raspberry Pi?

[jspielberg]

Lets hope so.  Its ridiculous that a 10,000 USD machine was being controlled by a modded $20 part.  While the Pi is only $40 it seems like a more stable/capable component.

[turtle83]

Did anyone else notice that in the photos in the latest update, the heatsinks seem much closer to the case edges??  Smaller case?  Bigger heatsinks?  Different placement? *speculates*

The motherboard now sits in the back (where it's cooler) and next to the RJ45 connector I no longer see a reset hole, so they might have switched to something like a Raspberry Pi?

Does not feel like a pi... they would need to either unsodder and turn the USB bracket... or use some kind of extension cable for the network port seems like a clumsy thing to do.... That is unless they made a major design change, and used SPI/GPIO to talk to the controller card...

[SolarSilver]

Does not feel like a pi... they would need to either unsodder and turn the USB bracket... or use some kind of extension cable for the network port seems like a clumsy thing to do.... That is unless they made a major design change, and used SPI/GPIO to talk to the controller card...

Yes you are right



I was just thinking of them using the other port for communication and powering the Rpi, but forgot about
the two USB slots next to the ethernet RJ45 connector they would have to get rid off

I rarely use those connectors so forgot about them ;-)

[Aseras]

I am in a difficult situation...

A. I can't get a refund, because all Avalon's were bought in a group buy and some people paid 2x what we originally paid to take over shares. These people would be pretty mad if I all the sudden got a refund and they lost half their money.

B. I have paid 3 months rent and bills now at the commercial space where I have planned to host the equipment.

I hope Avalon is happy with themselves, this has been one of the worst business decisions ever for me to decide to host Avalons, due to Avalon's delays. They certainly owe it to their batch 3 customers- I hope they give back somehow, but I am doubtful that they will. Otherwise, Avalon is no different from BFL, and I will never forget about this or buy an Avalon product ever again.

Avalon got greedy and decided to jack the prices up to $10k a machine due to how much money they were making. But, since we get them 3 months late this price is unacceptable now, I don't think Avalon would pay this price themselves. I hope that Avalon and company still have a heart and realize that they screwed batch 3 customers (but again, I am doubtful we will see any recourse).

It's not like everyone didn't try and warn all the batch 3 people that they wouldn't ROI.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155345.msg1649240#msg1649240

Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".

If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.

If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.

Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people.

The only thing batch3 people can hope is that BTC/$ value skyrockets.

[jspielberg]

The only thing batch3 people can hope is that BTC/$ value skyrockets.

Then they would have been better off just buying BTC in that case.  Anyway... they will be worse off, but not much worse off. 

[monkee]

in the photo you posted, it is hard to see but it does appear that the heatsinks are the same distance from the fans as previously, however in the photo from the back, the heatsinks are nearly butted up against the back of the case.  in my batch 2, there is a 3 inch gap betweent the end of the heatsink and the case.  so to me it seems the heatsinks (or modules) are 3 inches longer than batch 1 & 2? or the cases 3 inches shorter?  or 2 different case designs in pics maybe too.



compare to:


*edited pics*

[koob]

It's not like everyone didn't try and warn all the batch 3 people that they wouldn't ROI.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155345.msg1649240#msg1649240

Thing is I was good with first delivery date (which was beginning of May). If I had Avalon on that time I would make ROI easy. With all those delays Im not sure.
Gamble on batch#3 WAS how much hashrate jumps (BFL, AM) in May, and WASNT how much delayed deliver will be.
Thats why I think batch#3 deserve partial refund, as price was based on 1 Month ROI.

[SolarSilver]

in the photo you posted, it is hard to see but it does appear that the heatsinks are the same distance from the fans as previously, however in the photo from the back, the heatsinks are nearly butted up against the back of the case.  in my batch 2, there is a 3 inch gap betweent the end of the heatsink and the case.  so to me it seems the heatsinks (or modules) are 3 inches longer than batch 1 & 2? or the cases 3 inches shorter?  or 2 different case designs in pics maybe too.

Yes your observations are right. For full completeness, I would need to correct my previous post: I swapped Front and Back

Front is where the cold air gets sucked in

Back is where the hot air gets blown out

The motherboard has moved to the front of the machine, where the two LEDs are.

They could have moved the Control Unit up a few cm and place the motherboard under it.

But then what happened to the third fan? Are there only 2 fans in the front of the machine now?

In the previous Batch #1 and Batch #2, the motherboard was placed in the back, where all the hot air
exited. As was the Batch #1 USB hub

[Aseras]

It's not like everyone didn't try and warn all the batch 3 people that they wouldn't ROI.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155345.msg1649240#msg1649240

Thing is I was good with first delivery date (which was beginning of May). If I had Avalon on that time I would make ROI easy. With all those delays Im not sure.
Gamble on batch#3 WAS how much hashrate jumps (BFL, AM) in May, and WASNT how much delayed deliver will be.
Thats why I think batch#3 deserve partial refund, as price was based on 1 Month ROI.

Everyone would be happy if Avalon had shipped when they said and not sat on the units for themselves.

[ewibit]

Thats why I think batch#3 deserve partial refund, as price was based on 1 Month ROI.

dream on

[RoadStress]

Forget Batch #3! When are they sending the CHIPS? 

[koob]

Forget Batch #3! When are they sending the CHIPS? 

I hope in 3 months from now 

[Aseras]

Forget Batch #3! When are they sending the CHIPS? 

after a well deserved break and Chinese new year.

[Dalkore]

I am in a difficult situation...

A. I can't get a refund, because all Avalon's were bought in a group buy and some people paid 2x what we originally paid to take over shares. These people would be pretty mad if I all the sudden got a refund and they lost half their money.

B. I have paid 3 months rent and bills now at the commercial space where I have planned to host the equipment.

I hope Avalon is happy with themselves, this has been one of the worst business decisions ever for me to decide to host Avalons, due to Avalon's delays. They certainly owe it to their batch 3 customers- I hope they give back somehow, but I am doubtful that they will. Otherwise, Avalon is no different from BFL, and I will never forget about this or buy an Avalon product ever again.

Avalon got greedy and decided to jack the prices up to $10k a machine due to how much money they were making. But, since we get them 3 months late this price is unacceptable now, I don't think Avalon would pay this price themselves. I hope that Avalon and company still have a heart and realize that they screwed batch 3 customers (but again, I am doubtful we will see any recourse).

I was very jealous of your group buy. I would love to have organized something like that and was wondering how all of the escrow sellers and group buyers were handling this. I'm sorry you seem to be a bit screwed now but I still have complete faith that Avalon will make things right for batch 3 in one way or another.  Some evidence is that we have heard nothing and as we have been told, that is good news

Avalon lives or dies by bitcoin and we are choosing to live or die by Avalon.  Let it ride.

I wish the Avalon team good luck in getting this batch out the door and getting back to their engineering.  I think their next gen will make kncminer, etc. look like ASIC 1.1, not ASIC 2.0 and I look forward to ordering one... if I make enough BTC back by then.

Did anyone else notice that in the photos in the latest update, the heatsinks seem much closer to the case edges??  Smaller case?  Bigger heatsinks?  Different placement? *speculates*

I have extended him an offer to host with me.   I am already committed so hopefully this will help him out.   Wanted to do something.

[hchc]

I have extended him an offer to host with me.   I am already committed so hopefully this will help him out.   Wanted to do something.

Yes. Committed to locking in your own profit at the cost of holding all your share holders at a bind all the while claiming you work "for" your share holders. Wanted to do something? How about responding to my PMs?