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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1041587 times)
merv77
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July 30, 2013, 07:30:14 PM
 #121

"first run will yield 1000 - 1500 chips"

how many chips @ 130nm will be planned for production?

how many "blade-like" cards will be produced? and will they have 15 chips per card?

how many "BFL jalapeno-like" (as diagram on Labcoin web site) will be produced?

and also possible time frame estimates for any/or all of above?

Thanks
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TheSwede75
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July 30, 2013, 07:50:22 PM
 #122

Has there been a public demonstration of the chip?
+1, I wanted to ask the same question.

No. I will have a developer or Sam Noi inform deeper on this but i can say that labcoin is in the same situation as Asicminer, BTCgarden etc. we're/are in for their IPO in that we need additional funds for first-run and productions runs. Everything design wise, data modeling, virtual testing of cells, tape out etc. has been paid for and booked (approx $150.000) and now we need to take in capital for producing the actual chip.

I hope this is an accurate representation. You can read more regarding the hardware development phase, see contracts, cell images and specs in the Labcoin hardware thread over at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241033.0

Where Sam has been more active in describing the process and development.
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July 30, 2013, 11:06:02 PM
 #123

I would like a confirmation on if yes/no you will give 24-48 hours notice on the IPO? I need to juggle some funds around before I buy and want to make sure I do it in time. thanks Smiley
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July 30, 2013, 11:10:08 PM
 #124

please answer my question re-mining - this is important to know

ok
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July 30, 2013, 11:10:14 PM
 #125

I would like a confirmation on if yes/no you will give 24-48 hours notice on the IPO? I need to juggle some funds around before I buy and want to make sure I do it in time. thanks Smiley

We aim to launch the IPO as fast as possible after we are approved by anough votes. That said we will give between 16-24 hours notice before the start of share sales. We will also attempt to place the sale during US business hours.

D
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July 30, 2013, 11:12:36 PM
 #126

please answer my question re-mining - this is important to know

I am running a little ragged right know. I will indeed answer/elaborate on this shortly.
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July 31, 2013, 03:11:12 AM
 #127

A 130nm chip at 4.5-5GH/s with that power draw? Roll Eyes

So, an 110nm avalon chip is 282MH/s, but you guys somehow can create a chip with bigger transistors (130nm) that is equivalent to 16-17 avalon chips?

Not only that, but you claim you've optimized the logic so much that any competing chips using similar die-sizes are left in the dust?

Size of chip die area? Operating frequency? Number of cores?

Sorry, too many red flags in the key technical aspects. Sad

According to the preliminary specs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241033.msg2664903#msg2664903) this chip should perform better than the BFL ASIC (65 nm) while occupying even smaller silicon area. I'm a total noob when it comes to chip designing, so can't even guess if it's possible. Any idea?

BFL - 65 nm, 16 cores, 250 MH/s each, 4 GH/s total, die size 7.1 x 7.1 mm, 12.8 W total
Labcoin - 130 nm, 16 cores, 300 MH/s each, 4.8 GH/s total, die size 6.5 x 6.5 mm, 12.8 W total

By no means I don't want to make any hints to the BFL performance as a company. On the contrary, the labcoin chip has enormous potential if everything goes well.


If those are the correct specs, then I'm sorry but... LOL!!!

For that to be possible, not only each Labcoin core would have to be ~42% smaller [65/130*(6.5^2)/(7.1^2)] than each BFL core but also the Labcoin chip would magically operate at a higher frequency (300MHz vs 250MHz) while keeping the same power draw... Roll Eyes


Since there are several new companies going for the 130nm route with the excuse that manufacturing costs are much cheaper, might as well burst that bubble too: It's not. Nothing beats going 28nm now, except for the fact that the upfront NRE cost is much higher.

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July 31, 2013, 03:24:49 AM
 #128

When can officially buy stocks?
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July 31, 2013, 03:26:24 AM
 #129

A 130nm chip at 4.5-5GH/s with that power draw? Roll Eyes

So, an 110nm avalon chip is 282MH/s, but you guys somehow can create a chip with bigger transistors (130nm) that is equivalent to 16-17 avalon chips?

Not only that, but you claim you've optimized the logic so much that any competing chips using similar die-sizes are left in the dust?

Size of chip die area? Operating frequency? Number of cores?

Sorry, too many red flags in the key technical aspects. Sad

According to the preliminary specs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241033.msg2664903#msg2664903) this chip should perform better than the BFL ASIC (65 nm) while occupying even smaller silicon area. I'm a total noob when it comes to chip designing, so can't even guess if it's possible. Any idea?

BFL - 65 nm, 16 cores, 250 MH/s each, 4 GH/s total, die size 7.1 x 7.1 mm, 12.8 W total
Labcoin - 130 nm, 16 cores, 300 MH/s each, 4.8 GH/s total, die size 6.5 x 6.5 mm, 12.8 W total

By no means I don't want to make any hints to the BFL performance as a company. On the contrary, the labcoin chip has enormous potential if everything goes well.


If those are the correct specs, then I'm sorry but... LOL!!!

For that to be possible, not only each Labcoin core would have to be ~42% smaller [65/130*(6.5^2)/(7.1^2)] than each BFL core but also the Labcoin chip would magically operate at a higher frequency (300MHz vs 250MHz) while keeping the same power draw... Roll Eyes


Since there are several new companies going for the 130nm route with the excuse that manufacturing costs are much cheaper, might as well burst that bubble too: It's not. Nothing beats going 28nm now, except for the fact that the upfront NRE cost is much higher.


ACTM wait up to six months. . LOL. . . Time is money
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July 31, 2013, 03:32:50 AM
 #130

ACTM wait up to six months. . LOL. . . Time is money

You should pay more attention to the small details then! Wink

http://labcoin.com/docs/2.jpg
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July 31, 2013, 03:34:06 AM
 #131

^^ Damn you beat me to it
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July 31, 2013, 03:44:46 AM
 #132

A 130nm chip at 4.5-5GH/s with that power draw? Roll Eyes

So, an 110nm avalon chip is 282MH/s, but you guys somehow can create a chip with bigger transistors (130nm) that is equivalent to 16-17 avalon chips?

Not only that, but you claim you've optimized the logic so much that any competing chips using similar die-sizes are left in the dust?

Size of chip die area? Operating frequency? Number of cores?

Sorry, too many red flags in the key technical aspects. Sad

According to the preliminary specs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241033.msg2664903#msg2664903) this chip should perform better than the BFL ASIC (65 nm) while occupying even smaller silicon area. I'm a total noob when it comes to chip designing, so can't even guess if it's possible. Any idea?

BFL - 65 nm, 16 cores, 250 MH/s each, 4 GH/s total, die size 7.1 x 7.1 mm, 12.8 W total
Labcoin - 130 nm, 16 cores, 300 MH/s each, 4.8 GH/s total, die size 6.5 x 6.5 mm, 12.8 W total

By no means I don't want to make any hints to the BFL performance as a company. On the contrary, the labcoin chip has enormous potential if everything goes well.


If those are the correct specs, then I'm sorry but... LOL!!!

For that to be possible, not only each Labcoin core would have to be ~42% smaller [65/130*(6.5^2)/(7.1^2)] than each BFL core but also the Labcoin chip would magically operate at a higher frequency (300MHz vs 250MHz) while keeping the same power draw... Roll Eyes


Since there are several new companies going for the 130nm route with the excuse that manufacturing costs are much cheaper, might as well burst that bubble too: It's not. Nothing beats going 28nm now, except for the fact that the upfront NRE cost is much higher.


ACTM wait up to six months. . LOL. . . Time is money

It is of course up to all investors to draw their own conclusions and believe what they want regarding what density (130, 110, 65, 55 or 28 nm) deliver the best ROI over time.

labcoin has made the choice to go with 130 nm as gen 1 and 65 nm as gen 2 for several reasons. Some of these reasons are NRE costs, fabrication costs, available developer resources, capital procurement and availability of Foundry shuttles and production slots.

We are certainly not claiming that 28 nm is a "bad choice" by default, but for a smaller project not wanting to be forced to raise millions of dollars and bet "everything" on a single development project or risk total failure (Bitfury did this, and it seems they were lucky enough to actually come out with positive results). Then staying with lesser density that is cheaper and offer far more flexible production options just makes sense.

Maybe worth pointing out that the graph you pasted has almost no relation to ANY ASIC manufacturer as it refers to large scale generalized production of IC. As as much as I would like to think that Labcoin shortly will be ordering $100 million dollar IC production runs I doubt that is very closely connected with reality.
jackcc
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July 31, 2013, 03:52:17 AM
 #133

When can officially buy stocks?
TheSwede75
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July 31, 2013, 03:57:15 AM
 #134

ACTM wait up to six months. . LOL. . . Time is money

You should pay more attention to the small details then! Wink

http://labcoin.com/docs/2.jpg


May I ask what your point is? This is the TSMC customer contract for our chip development estimates pre-IPO.
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July 31, 2013, 04:09:09 AM
 #135

Since I am not a chip designer or engineer I think maybe it's best that I pass the engineering questions to our developers. I will have someone from the development team take over the hardware specifics here and stick to business plans and IPO specifics before I end up saying something wrong.

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July 31, 2013, 04:16:04 AM
 #136


It depends on how soon the stock get approval. Labcoin has no control with that. So just keep an eye on BTCT voting
jackcc
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July 31, 2013, 04:21:16 AM
 #137


It depends on how soon the stock get approval. Labcoin has no control with that. So just keep an eye on BTCT voting
How many votes needed to pass?
sayaz
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July 31, 2013, 04:26:49 AM
 #138

Vbs' point was that your proposed time advantage in relation to actm's timeline for hardware release doesn't exist or is exaggerated.

Feel free to correct him.
TheSwede75
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July 31, 2013, 04:31:02 AM
 #139

Vbs' point was that your proposed time advantage in relation to actm's timeline for hardware release doesn't exist or is exaggerated.

Feel free to correct him.

I am not sure I am the person to do so, but from everything I have discussed with the team Labcoin is ready for first run as soon as the funds are available for running it. This is also the case for volume production. One of the main factors behind the lower density choice (130nm) for first generation chips is the time-to-market advantage that production availability gives. (There is plenty of availability for 130 nm production, while 28 nm and even 65 nm production has long booking times and few shuttles at far fewer foundries).
yxxyun
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July 31, 2013, 04:55:23 AM
 #140

3 vote now , can we buy shares immediately when reach the 5 vote ?

1Yxx3GinTkNHtodDpSKioBBsTYdW9zZAK
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