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Author Topic: [LABCOIN] IPO [BTCT.CO] - Details/FAQ and Discussion (ASIC dev/sales/mining)  (Read 1041787 times)
JoTheKhan
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October 02, 2013, 08:41:39 PM
 #16861

In the latest Q&A Labcoin did not want to do a refund but said he would spend the bitcoins he still has to fix the chips, as an excuse to not refund the coins left in the company. The chips are now way too late so even fixing them will not be cost-effective. Even if they are legit, they are doing something that will be less profitable for their investors than a refund... so... scam anyway.

This is not a normal Mining Company. This is a reinvesting mining company that owns their own asic design. With this it doesnt matter much when the first chips come online. They will reinvest and gain a certain amount of network hashrate. Thats completely different as mining companies that have a hashrate target in TH and then stop and its different from the average reinvesting security that has to buy for nearly enduserprices.

Ok but you realize what Pankkake is saying is that. The LAST of the funds for Labcoin will be going into fixing chips that CANNOT be fixed. That is what Pankkake is saying. So when you run out of FUNDS and have NO working chips. What do you reinvest with? And with that, what do you reinvest in? there is no one on the team to design the chips anymore. That guy has apparently been gone for months.
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ishkur
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October 02, 2013, 08:43:36 PM
 #16862

We still have gen 2

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October 02, 2013, 08:44:21 PM
 #16863

In the latest Q&A Labcoin did not want to do a refund but said he would spend the bitcoins he still has to fix the chips, as an excuse to not refund the coins left in the company. The chips are now way too late so even fixing them will not be cost-effective. Even if they are legit, they are doing something that will be less profitable for their investors than a refund... so... scam anyway.

This is not a normal Mining Company. This is a reinvesting mining company that owns their own asic design. With this it doesnt matter much when the first chips come online. They will reinvest and gain a certain amount of network hashrate. Thats completely different as mining companies that have a hashrate target in TH and then stop and its different from the average reinvesting security that has to buy for nearly enduserprices.

Stop it.  You can't "reinvest" if you don't make anything.  Labcoin is not mining enough coin to call it a mining company -- that's what makes it unique.
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October 02, 2013, 08:44:35 PM
 #16864

In what world would you expect a company with a few hundred dollar in total revenue to date and looking at, at the very least  $100K's in expenses, to pay its shareholders a dividend?

I expect any honest to god ponzi scheme to pay dividends like this. This is not the only bitcoin (in)security that has this practice.
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October 02, 2013, 09:18:38 PM
 #16865

Ok but you realize what Pankkake is saying is that. The LAST of the funds for Labcoin will be going into fixing chips that CANNOT be fixed. That is what Pankkake is saying. So when you run out of FUNDS and have NO working chips. What do you reinvest with? And with that, what do you reinvest in? there is no one on the team to design the chips anymore. That guy has apparently been gone for months.

As far as i read its only the package that is faulty. So simply use another package with the next production run and you can reuse the chipdesign. He did not say that the chipdesign is faulty.

This is not a normal Mining Company. This is a reinvesting mining company that owns their own asic design.
Ugh, I hope everyone here knows that already.
Here's the thing: it's worthless. Everyone else has better chips now and is planning even better chips. Why would they produce more chips… when they're the worst on the market?
They had a tiny window, and they missed it big time.

Everyone has better chips? You realize that this isnt for endusers? Even Asicminer is ordering another big batch of the oldest asic gen. Simply because they OWN the design and can create miners at cost. Thats completely different than the competition between endusers buying expensive miners from companies. So no, these chips are not dead. You cant calculate with enduserprices here.

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merv77
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October 02, 2013, 09:26:23 PM
 #16866

Ok but you realize what Pankkake is saying is that. The LAST of the funds for Labcoin will be going into fixing chips that CANNOT be fixed. That is what Pankkake is saying. So when you run out of FUNDS and have NO working chips. What do you reinvest with? And with that, what do you reinvest in? there is no one on the team to design the chips anymore. That guy has apparently been gone for months.

As far as i read its only the package that is faulty. So simply use another package with the next production run and you can reuse the chipdesign. He did not say that the chipdesign is faulty.

This is not a normal Mining Company. This is a reinvesting mining company that owns their own asic design.
Ugh, I hope everyone here knows that already.
Here's the thing: it's worthless. Everyone else has better chips now and is planning even better chips. Why would they produce more chips… when they're the worst on the market?
They had a tiny window, and they missed it big time.

Everyone has better chips? You realize that this isnt for endusers? Even Asicminer is ordering another big batch of the oldest asic gen. Simply because they OWN the design and can create miners at cost. Thats completely different than the competition between endusers buying expensive miners from companies. So no, these chips are not dead. You cant calculate with enduserprices here.
+1
+1
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October 02, 2013, 09:33:45 PM
 #16867

Ok but you realize what Pankkake is saying is that. The LAST of the funds for Labcoin will be going into fixing chips that CANNOT be fixed. That is what Pankkake is saying. So when you run out of FUNDS and have NO working chips. What do you reinvest with? And with that, what do you reinvest in? there is no one on the team to design the chips anymore. That guy has apparently been gone for months.

As far as i read its only the package that is faulty. So simply use another package with the next production run and you can reuse the chipdesign. He did not say that the chipdesign is faulty.

This is not a normal Mining Company. This is a reinvesting mining company that owns their own asic design.
Ugh, I hope everyone here knows that already.
Here's the thing: it's worthless. Everyone else has better chips now and is planning even better chips. Why would they produce more chips… when they're the worst on the market?
They had a tiny window, and they missed it big time.

Everyone has better chips? You realize that this isnt for endusers? Even Asicminer is ordering another big batch of the oldest asic gen. Simply because they OWN the design and can create miners at cost. Thats completely different than the competition between endusers buying expensive miners from companies. So no, these chips are not dead. You cant calculate with enduserprices here.
+1
+1

Fail logic.

1.  If Labcoin
     had chips, and those chips hashed, and hashed at full speed, it could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.

2.  If Bitfury, KNC, ASICminer, Avalon, etc.
     had chips (they do), and those chips hashed (they do), and hashed at full speed (they do), they could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.

See the problem here?
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October 02, 2013, 09:47:09 PM
 #16868

Ok but you realize what Pankkake is saying is that. The LAST of the funds for Labcoin will be going into fixing chips that CANNOT be fixed. That is what Pankkake is saying. So when you run out of FUNDS and have NO working chips. What do you reinvest with? And with that, what do you reinvest in? there is no one on the team to design the chips anymore. That guy has apparently been gone for months.

As far as i read its only the package that is faulty. So simply use another package with the next production run and you can reuse the chipdesign. He did not say that the chipdesign is faulty.

This is not a normal Mining Company. This is a reinvesting mining company that owns their own asic design.
Ugh, I hope everyone here knows that already.
Here's the thing: it's worthless. Everyone else has better chips now and is planning even better chips. Why would they produce more chips… when they're the worst on the market?
They had a tiny window, and they missed it big time.

Everyone has better chips? You realize that this isnt for endusers? Even Asicminer is ordering another big batch of the oldest asic gen. Simply because they OWN the design and can create miners at cost. Thats completely different than the competition between endusers buying expensive miners from companies. So no, these chips are not dead. You cant calculate with enduserprices here.
+1
+1

Fail logic.

1.  If Labcoin
     had chips, and those chips hashed, and hashed at full speed, it could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.
- if they did have the above (and if not a scam) then my impression was they would be selling chips and hardware
2.  If Bitfury, KNC, ASICminer, Avalon, etc.
     had chips (they do), and those chips hashed (they do), and hashed at full speed (they do), they could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.
- don't all companies above also hash at cost, plus sell chips and hardware Huh
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October 02, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
 #16869

No dividend today...
SebastianJu
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October 02, 2013, 10:04:19 PM
 #16870

Fail logic.

1.  If Labcoin
     had chips, and those chips hashed, and hashed at full speed, it could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.

2.  If Bitfury, KNC, ASICminer, Avalon, etc.
     had chips (they do), and those chips hashed (they do), and hashed at full speed (they do), they could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.

See the problem here?

The problem? That you assume they dont have chips? I dont see another problem. They have chips that have a problem that has to be solved. Thats it. When this works they will mine and sell hardware. What else?

Everyone has better chips? You realize that this isnt for endusers?
Well yes I do realize that.
My point is that even end-users are going to have it better than Labcoin.
And again, you are completely ignoring that any delays are deadly. Difficulty is going to explode.

Right... diffi is exploding. But where do you have the idea from that endusers can compete with someone owning an asic design? I think THATS deluded.

Quote
Even Asicminer is ordering another big batch of the oldest asic gen.
Which is better than Labcoin's, is known to work, and probably costs a lot less now that they're used to make it. And they can sell it fast, too.

Quote
Simply because they OWN the design and can create miners at cost. Thats completely different than the competition between endusers buying expensive miners from companies. So no, these chips are not dead. You cant calculate with enduserprices here.
You are so deluded. What they "OWN" is a turd.

Did you read the chat? The chip design seems to work. So when they make another batch with better enclosure they have chips that will work fully.
Claiming that owning a working chip design is worthless... man, im not sure if i can take you serious.

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October 02, 2013, 10:04:54 PM
 #16871

Ok but you realize what Pankkake is saying is that. The LAST of the funds for Labcoin will be going into fixing chips that CANNOT be fixed. That is what Pankkake is saying. So when you run out of FUNDS and have NO working chips. What do you reinvest with? And with that, what do you reinvest in? there is no one on the team to design the chips anymore. That guy has apparently been gone for months.

As far as i read its only the package that is faulty. So simply use another package with the next production run and you can reuse the chipdesign. He did not say that the chipdesign is faulty.

This is not a normal Mining Company. This is a reinvesting mining company that owns their own asic design.
Ugh, I hope everyone here knows that already.
Here's the thing: it's worthless. Everyone else has better chips now and is planning even better chips. Why would they produce more chips… when they're the worst on the market?
They had a tiny window, and they missed it big time.

Everyone has better chips? You realize that this isnt for endusers? Even Asicminer is ordering another big batch of the oldest asic gen. Simply because they OWN the design and can create miners at cost. Thats completely different than the competition between endusers buying expensive miners from companies. So no, these chips are not dead. You cant calculate with enduserprices here.
+1
+1

Fail logic.

1.  If Labcoin
     had chips, and those chips hashed, and hashed at full speed, it could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.
- if they did have the above (and if not a scam) then my impression was they would be selling chips and hardware

If not a scam, and if they had the chips, and if those chips hashed, Labcoin would still not be able to compete with real ASIC companies due to having an obsolete chip.  If it's not profitable to sell those failchips as miners, why is it suddenly profitable to mine them???

Quote
2.  If Bitfury, KNC, ASICminer, Avalon, etc.
     had chips (they do), and those chips hashed (they do), and hashed at full speed (they do), they could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.
- don't all companies above also hash at cost, plus sell chips and hardware Huh

Yes they do.  The difference being that they have chips, those chips work, and work better than the Labcoin's best=case scenario, the one riddled with all the "if"s. Smiley
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October 02, 2013, 10:07:34 PM
 #16872

If not a scam, and if they had the chips, and if those chips hashed, Labcoin would still not be able to compete with real ASIC companies due to having an obsolete chip.

Maybe you should ask friedcat why he ordered again a big batch of the oldest asic gen.

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October 02, 2013, 10:08:55 PM
 #16873

As far as i read its only the package that is faulty. So simply use another package with the next production run and you can reuse the chipdesign. He did not say that the chipdesign is faulty.

Yeah "only". The "only" problem with that is that the packaging is some sort of epoxy plastic, its not like you can change it after they have been packaged. That means you can throw them away, all of them. So you are left with that next production run, which usually takes at least 2 months for the wafer processing alone, assuming you planned this beforehand or the fab has spare capacity. Add the time for planning the wafer run,  packaging, mounting, assembly,  deploying. How much do you think those 130nm chips are going to be worth if they only start hashing in February?

According to TGB's optimistic scenario, and using labcoins most optimistic specs, they would mine $5 per chip in February, $2.5 in March and the total barely exceeds $8. Asics are cheap, but good luck having those chips produced at that price, including the PCBs, powersupplies and other overhead and somehow make a profit.

Its a loser.
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October 02, 2013, 10:09:32 PM
 #16874

Shouldn't dividends have been payed by now?
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October 02, 2013, 10:14:06 PM
 #16875

Fail logic.

1.  If Labcoin
     had chips, and those chips hashed, and hashed at full speed, it could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.

2.  If Bitfury, KNC, ASICminer, Avalon, etc.
     had chips (they do), and those chips hashed (they do), and hashed at full speed (they do), they could cook up moar batches & mine with those chips at cost.

See the problem here?

The problem? That you assume they dont have chips? I dont see another problem. They have chips that have a problem that has to be solved. Thats it. When this works they will mine and sell hardware. What else?

Not sure i can make this any easier for you to understand, but i'll try:

They may have the chips, but the chips are scrap.  They made engineering boo-boos, and now those chips may be useful as fill at a construction site, or as reminders to children how wrong things can go if they don't keep up their grades -- not much else.  That's another problem 4 u.

Here's another:  The "company" is most likely a scam.  This is a biggie.

Would you like moar?
 
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October 02, 2013, 10:23:41 PM
 #16876

If not a scam, and if they had the chips, and if those chips hashed, Labcoin would still not be able to compete with real ASIC companies due to having an obsolete chip.

Maybe you should ask friedcat why he ordered again a big batch of the oldest asic gen.

Maybe you're trying a bit too hard to pump an obvious fail stock?

If Labcoin is everything you claim it is, why not buy buy buy?  A sudden rush of altruistic good will towards us faithless idiots? Cheesy

Edit:  When dealing with complex concepts, pictorial illustrations tend to add a measure of clarity.  HERE:
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October 02, 2013, 10:34:16 PM
 #16877

As far as i read its only the package that is faulty. So simply use another package with the next production run and you can reuse the chipdesign. He did not say that the chipdesign is faulty.

Yeah "only". The "only" problem with that is that the packaging is some sort of epoxy plastic, its not like you can change it after they have been packaged. That means you can throw them away, all of them. So you are left with that next production run, which usually takes at least 2 months for the wafer processing alone, assuming you planned this beforehand or the fab has spare capacity. Add the time for planning the wafer run,  packaging, mounting, assembly,  deploying. How much do you think those 130nm chips are going to be worth if they only start hashing in February?

According to TGB's optimistic scenario, and using labcoins most optimistic specs, they would mine $5 per chip in February, $2.5 in March and the total barely exceeds $8. Asics are cheap, but good luck having those chips produced at that price, including the PCBs, powersupplies and other overhead and somehow make a profit.

Its a loser.

You have to be insane to hold this stock at this point. 
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October 02, 2013, 10:49:11 PM
 #16878

.00018 is gonna break soon.
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October 02, 2013, 11:27:55 PM
 #16879

I'm going to buy in when it's 1 satoshi per share.  Come on bag holders you can do it
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October 03, 2013, 12:01:11 AM
 #16880

are they skipping dividends today?

ok
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